Israel Thwarts Attempt To Smuggle Commercial Drones Into Gaza 312
An anonymous reader writes: The Jerusalem Post reports that the Shin Bet intelligence agency recently foiled an attempt to smuggle commercial multicopter drones into Gaza, Israel authorities announced on Sunday. The inspectors stopped an Israeli truck carrying toys at the Kerem Shalom Crossing, where drones of various types and sizes carrying high quality cameras were found. Additional attempts to smuggle commercial drones were intercepted by the Shin Bet in recent weeks. The drones were earmarked for use by Hamas group in Gaza. Close inspection of released images reveal what seems to be a Syma X5 FPV quadcopter. Those toy-grade multirrotors have a onboard wifi camera. Once you've downloaded the streaming app to your phone you are able to connect the on board camera to your phone and use it to give you FPV footage.
The world... (Score:2, Insightful)
The world is such a sad place.
So Israel bans drones with cameras? (Score:3, Insightful)
What exactly do they have to hide?
And why do they only ban them for Palestinians?
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"It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut."
Drones can be easily used as weapons against civilian targets.
No, no they couldn't. They can, however, provide effective reconnaissance, possibly giving the inmates a fair chance to avoid approaching Israeli Caterpillars-of-mass-destruction. I mean, can you imagine the treat to Israeli citizens,
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If you lived in Gaza, you would learn the truth. Or you'd get killed. Win/Win!
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An M67 grenade weighs 400 grams. A Syma X5 can lift 150-200g (depending on whose numbers you trust, the manufacturer or owners actually trying to use it).
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They should instruct the terrorists to remove the pin before attaching the grenade to the drone, in order to save weight, and to test the action on the handle to make sure it works as intended.
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OTOH, a car can carry a hell of a lot more explosive power than a toy drone.
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Apparently oppressed people can also be used as weapons against civilian people. Therefore we showed ban oppressed people. Ugh, ok, suggestions?
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correction: showed -> should
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Cars ARE used as weapons against civilian targets by Palestinians. They've had to start beefing up barricades around bus stops in Israel.
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Actually Gaza is controlled by the occupying Israeli military...
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What exactly do they have to hide?
Probably the location of undefended women and children, whom the Hamas terrorists would like to murder. This is not idle speculation, as a) it has happened many times in the past, including recently, and b) the Hamas leadership has stated that this is what they want to do.
And why do they only ban them for Palestinians?
Probably because the Palestinians are the only ones trying to kill Israelis that Israel shares a border and checkpoints with. Do you expect them to try and ban drones in Sweden? Doesn't the answer to this question seem sort of obvious i
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Because quads with cameras make really excellent flying bombs?
Unfortunately the part they are missing is that these 'wifi' cameras work about as far as you can throw them, so they aren't really dangerous at all.
900/400mhz cameras are the ones to fear, they'll work for miles with off the shelf transmitters. Mine does about 1.5m and its only running at 250mw, its capable of 1000mw output
Let them have the drones (Score:5, Insightful)
They should just let them have the drones, and put up WiFi jammers around the perimeter of the Strip so that the drones are useless outside of Gaza. These things can't have that much range anyway.
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Range of "Up to 160ft!" in the docs. I'm sure that I can throw whatever payload those drones could lift further than they can fly.
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Well ... according to the link In the Summary ( http://www.dx.com/p/syma-x5sw-... [dx.com] )
It lists the range at 100 meters which, if you don't speak metric, translates to a little under 330 feet or 110 yards, whichever you feel comfortable with.
To put it a different way, just about the distance from one set of uprights to the other on an NFL football field.
I don't know about you, but my arm isn't that good.
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Yes, and my access point claims 100m range as well. It doesn't work at the bottom of the garden. Those are very optimistic figures based on the assumption that you are operating the drone in free space, several kilometers from any other source of interference.
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baseball record is about 136 meters. the ball left his hand going 120mph, he had a running start.
for comparison, in 2008 the average pitch speed on a fastball was 91mph in the major leagues. now apparently there are people breaking 100 consistently. ... but yes, i don't think throwing anything 100 meters... is going to be more accurate or reliable than droning it there.
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The funny thing is, when they lose range, they continue on as the last known stick position. So if someone set it to fly due north at a 10 degree incline, it'll just keep on going north gaining height and distance until the battery runs out. Usually about 5-10 minutes per charge for these X5C. It'll probably go far enough to freak people out and they'll end up with useless X5Cs on all the rooftops.
Thankfully the power is not enough to attach any sort of harmful device on them. At least, not the toys like th
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Interesting idea.
Then flight time/lift potentially becomes more of the limiting factor than radio range.
I wonder how far this could theoretically travel on its 6-8 minutes of battery life.
Because Gazans are prisoners (Score:4, Insightful)
under house arrest in their own home.
They are not regular free human beings like you and me.
And the world allows this F'd up situation to continue.
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Sadly ironic that Israel has created two giant Palestinian concentration camps, complete with walls, guards, starvation and oppression--the whole nine yards.
Of course they don't want Palestinians filming any of this.
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>> Why is Israel allowed to swipe land but not Russia?
So Russia was pushed out of Crimea then?
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So Russia was pushed out of Crimea then?
The Jews also pushed their way into the region in question, and were never more than an ethnic minority there. Nobody who has claimed it in thousands of years can claim to have claimed it first.
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Regular human beings allow other human beings nearby to exist. And when you deny them right of existence and want to push them to the sea, no wonder you are treated as war time enemy.
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Damn those Nazi Egyptians! Penning in those innocent Arabs trying to wipe a country off the map! Oh, the humanity!
If you would move yourself and your family to Gaza, you would learn the truth. Or you'd get killed. Win/Win
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That's a harsh way to talk about the Israelis. I know they're government is made up of racists and war criminals, but they're still human beings.
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Until you move to Gaza and see the reality for yourself, you should really shut the fuck up. I realize that learning the truth is not a part of your agenda, but I urge you to try it. Either you'll learn something or you'll end up dead. Either way, the world ends up in a better place.
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Until you've been to the Moon, you should really not weigh in on whether or not it's made of green fucking cheese.
Re:Because Gazans are prisoners (Score:4, Informative)
Hamas: Popular terrorist organisation with the stated aim of murdering civilians.
Israel: Government with a poor human rights record that openly boasts about being effectively an apartheid state, tolerated as an ally only because every other power in the region is even worse.
-----
"I like the Walrus best," said Alice, "because you see he was a little sorry for the poor oysters."
"He ate more than the Carpenter, though," said Tweedledee. "You see he held his handkerchief in front, so that the Carpenter couldn't count how many he took: contrariwise."
"That was mean!" Alice said indignantly. "Then I like the Carpenter best—if he didn't eat so many as the Walrus."
"But he ate as many as he could get," said Tweedledum.
This was a puzzler. After a pause, Alice began, "Well! They were both very unpleasant characters—"
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Hamas was voted into power in a democratic election.
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They are not regular free human beings like you and me.
That's because they behave like sub-humans and should be treated as such until they decide it's no longer worth a crap existence they've created for themselves.
I'd be pretty pissed off too if you tore down my home to build settlements (which you already promised you wouldn't build any more of). And the fact that you encourage if not outright provide automatic weapons to those settlers while I can get shot for having a screwdriver on me.
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You are confusing Gaza and the West Bank.
Gaza is more like the island of Manhattan in Escape from New York. It's strictly under the control of the Gazans. The state of things "on the island" are more the responsibility of their version of "The Duke of New York".
At least keep your groups of "poor downtrodden victims" straight.
They would need a lot of them to do much (Score:2)
My Syma X5 lasted maybe 10-15 flights before one of the motors started failing. I bought and installed a replacement motor and almost immediately two more motors started failing. "Toy-grade" is right.
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For the intended purpose, it would only have to be used once. :/
Old game... (Score:2)
Tits for tats, the stronger does it more, the weaker takes revenge and so it goes merry go round.
A total failure - human conditions are despicable - politicians, religious leaders and other brain amputated want-to-be bigwigs can't swing it and should live under those conditions for a while to get the taste of their idiocy. Fat chance it ever happens....
The trauma accumulated in the affected people will resound for generations and perpetuate if it ever get resolved.
Drones with Cameras (Score:5, Funny)
The genocide will not be televised.
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Re:You can't let these get into the (Score:5, Insightful)
The US felt the need to hit Japan twice with the bomb, since the Japanese simply refused to surrender and continued to attack American soldiers. Israel unilaterally left Gaza in 2005. They uprooted all of their settlers and soldiers - no Jews whatsoever in Gaza (even though Jews had been living in Gaza for centuries). What did the Palestinians do? They destroyed all the greenhouses and synagogues and elected into office a terrorist organization that had conducted over 100 pre-planned, organized suicide bomb attacks against Israeli civilians. The checkpoints and border walls (also enforced by Egypt BTW) are in place to prevent these animals from committing more terrorist acts against soldiers and civilians. This all goes away when the people of Gaza rid themselves of the Islamists who hold their future hostage.
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... these animals ...
Classic. Of course, even a lot of Israeli soldiers and Shin Bet former executives are seeing the writing on the wall. But somehow it escapes a lot of Israeli citizens that they're heading down a well-trodden path riddled with corpses.
Re:You can't let these get into the (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You can't let these get into the (Score:5, Insightful)
They kill 100-300 Palestinians for every Israeli that's killed on account of the fact that Hamas and Islamic Jihad's missiles are launched from within densely-populated urban neighborhoods. Retaliatory strikes (which every single country in the world would be justified to make when fired upon) are generally precision-guided toward the location of the rockets. The IDF have dropped leaflets, sent text messages, knock-knock bombs, etc. to warn Palestinian civilians of pending retaliatory strikes. Hamas forces them back into their homes, since greater civilian casualties result in more sympathy from idiot leftists in the West.
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Muslims launch rockets at Jews, killing civilians. This is bad, because killing civilians is bad.
Jews launch rockets at Muslims, killing civilians. This is seen as different than the aforementioned case bacause:
a) Israeli rockets are "retaliatory", whereas Hamas is the instigator here, so it's okay. Of course, Hamas has been explicitly retaliating for Israel's annexation of Palestinian territory (and for the British/UN interference
Re:You can't let these get into the (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah... if the Israelis were indiscriminately killing civilians the casualty lists would look a lot different. Instead they are overwhelmingly concentrated on the category of males between 14 and 32.
Simpe demonstration (Score:5, Insightful)
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There's a double standard that's applied here, and nobody seems to mind.
Muslims launch rockets at Jews, killing civilians. This is bad, because killing civilians is bad.
Jews launch rockets at Muslims, killing civilians. This is seen as different than the aforementioned case bacause
Because intent matters. It matters morally, and it matters as far as international law is concerned.
International law prohibits targeting civilians. Hammas is doing just that, in violation of international law.
International law prohibits using civilian facilities for military purposes. Hammas is doing just that.
International law does not prohibit targeting military and weapons. Despite what many in liberals believe, it does not prohibit this even when said militia and weapons are stashed in distinctly civil
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Given that we've not taken it by forceful freedom, I'm inclined to think there's no oil of meaningful worth in this area. The Middle East is a big area, it's actually more than deserts interspersed with ponds of oil. I know it is expensive for people to travel but it's worth it. The Middle East has some beautiful things and some great people - Israel is one of those places that has lots of beauty, history, and good people.
Good food too. Especially Jerusalem. Go for a stroll on the old city. It helps to be an atheist, so you can see it from the perspective of an outsider rather than a combatant.
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So if Israel stopped intercepting rockets fired into Israel, stopped halting suicide bombers from coming in and in general just let all the attempted murder, terrorism and killing of their civilians that is attempted by the other side, is it then okay for them to do what they are doing? Or if you have the capability to defend yourself with one some deaths and only lots of FEAR of death, and your enemy defends themselves in a way to up the death toll of innocents around them ... are you just stuck sucking it up and knowing that your people will simply have to die?
Did you read the article and see the example of the "drones earmarked for use by "terrorist elements in Gaza" to gather intelligence on IDF movements" provided by the Jerusalem Post?
http://live.jpost.com/HttpHand... [jpost.com]
What a joke, Is this a hoax or something? That thing looks exactly like a cheap Chinese drone my coworker bought. The thing requires constant attention to keep it airborne, you have to maintain eye contact with it and give constant control feedback at all times to keep it from crashing,
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well you know, they can lift at least 50 g
which just so happens to be about the fill capacity of one of them old WW2 hand grenades, the MK 2
with TNT, which coincidentally is exactly what they fill those qassam rockets with that hamas fires into israel.
but you know, no biggie, they'd almost certainly be targeting civilians.
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Doesn't do much damage without 2 lbs of cast iron around it. Your talking about a big firecracker.
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quick googling, a nail weighs about 1 g. a full stick of dynamite is 190 grams. lets say you take 1/6 a stick of dynamite, and wrap 20 nails around it, you'd get something around 50 grams.
that's assuming you can't chop anything off that drone to lighten it.
taking a look at that thing, most of the casing appears to be superfluous, and those landing struts too.
you've got something like 4 3-4 inch landing struts made of plastic, which isn't probably that much lighter than water densitywise. i'd say they're s
Re: You can't let these get into the (Score:2)
IDF soldiers had better be careful with their eyebrows...
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that's exactly what i think of when i think of tnt.
you got me, super innocuous.
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Colonel Klink: Hoogaan!!
Re:It's all about "inmate" actions (Score:5, Informative)
... to strapping on explosive to the drone and piloting into something ...
Have you looked at the "drone" in question?
It's a $70, 12 inch wide, 6 minute runtime, 160 foot control distance, toy.
A slingshot could move more weight further and probably more accurately.
Are you incompetent or lying? (Score:2)
the very link from the story [dx.com] reveals you are making up figures. The range is 100 meters (~320 feet) (look at the specifications tab), not 160 feet as you said.... and 8 minutes, not 6.
So are you incompetent or lying?
Do you have any idea how far a drone can go in eight minutes? Even with the reduced flying time from carrying a half pound of C4 [letsrollforums.com], it could be hundreds of feet away in under a minute.
The fact you think this is a harmless toy with zero possible destructive possibility is alarming for a Slashdot p
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the very link from the story [dx.com] reveals you are making up figures. The range is 100 meters (~320 feet) (look at the specifications tab), not 160 feet as you said.... and 8 minutes, not 6.
So are you incompetent or lying?
Do you have any idea how far a drone can go in eight minutes? Even with the reduced flying time from carrying a half pound of C4 [letsrollforums.com], it could be hundreds of feet away in under a minute.
The fact you think this is a harmless toy with zero possible destructive possibility is alarming for a Slashdot poster.
Except it can't go "hundreds of feet away" if the range is only 100 meters.
I'm really dubious the specific drone in question could be used as an effective weapon for carrying bombs. But are there other drones that could? Definitely. And they're probably doing a blanket ban on that basis.
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> Except it can't go "hundreds of feet away" if the range is only 100 meters.
You wouldn't happen to be an American, would you? If so, get off the 'net. You're making your countrymen look even more stupid.
Actually I'm Canadian. I forgot how puny your feet were :)
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I can confirm that. Canadian feet *are* larger. And European feet are actually 1 meter.
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The very link from the summary reveals you're an asshole, since the stats there match what I quoted exactly. You're an asshole for jumping to "incompetent or lying".
The dx.com link you shared does say 100 meters and 8 minute flight (it's for the SYMA X5SW).
The link to rcgroups.com from the summary says 160 feet and 6 minute flight (it's also for the SYMA X5SW).
I don't see either link in the main story at http://www.jpost.com/ [jpost.com] (maybe my adblocker took care of something).
In either case, do you honestly believ
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At the range this thing has, you're probably better off using a sling - some people can hit a coke can at 500 feet with one.
Re: Are you incompetent or lying? (Score:5, Insightful)
People make bullshit up all the time if it helps them to insult/dissing/incite hate against Israel. Anti-semitism is alarmingly wide spread. Ignorance is bliss for a lot of people.
Don't confuse anti-semitism with anti-Israeli-foreign-policy. There are overlaps, but they are not the same thing.
Re: Are you incompetent or lying? (Score:5, Insightful)
So sadly to some people the two things are exactly the same and it means tiptoeing around issues of Israeli politics to avoid being dragged off into full Godwin territory.
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I fucking hate practically everything about Israel's policy since Yitzakh Rabin's assassination, but within the framework it put itself (and its people) into, banning drones, even toy drones, is a sensible move. Toy drones aren't an essential good, and creatively used with nefarious intent, they could ultimately endanger Israeli lives - while banning them doesn't endanger any Palestinian life. All in all, while not a positive, it's a non-negative.
Many things have to change about Israel's behavior, but as fa
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Israeli: 66 Soldiers, 5 Civilians, 1 Thai civilian
Palestinians (per the UN count): Militants 789, Civilians 1,462 (65% civilians)
So yes, some angry people with a god I don't believe in and very limited weapons have struck at a much better armed and equipped -invading- force who believe in another magical sky being.
Sorry, but faith asid, there is no question to me who is ethically in the wrong here.
Are you lying or incompetent? (Score:5, Insightful)
Since Hamas provides the casualty numbers and affiliations [bbc.com] and the numbers are dramatically skewed, they very clearly reflect that the numbers you laid out include a LOT of combatants labeled as civilians.
Including women; if you had bothered to read my ice cream link.
But here's the thing; Hamas has fired thousands of rockets at civilian targets. You are basically giving them CREDIT just because many thousands of Israelis are not dead who would have been, if it were not for a very good missile defense system...
If you really cared at all you would consider the count of attempted fatalities, not the final result.
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It's a shame you and your family were not in Gaza at the time. You might have noticed the months of rocket attacks that preceded Israel's incursion. And even better, you might have taken a counter-attack in the head.
Re:It's all about "inmate" actions (Score:5, Insightful)
More Germans than Americans or Brits died in WW2. Does that make the Americans or Brits the aggressors in WW2?
Body count does not correlate to who is the aggressor. Just who is losing.
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1. What is morality?
2. Where does it come from and why is it valuable? Note: not "why is it valuable to you", but "why is it valuable to everyone."
3. Why is it that you think it would only be ethical for Israel to suffer the same casualties as their enemies? Can there be no such thing as a side that both wins a war and is ethically and morally in the right?
4. Do you know what the phrase "lying with statisti
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Gert defines morality in the normative sense as: "a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons."
That actually gives a basic outline to your first question, and also your second question when you think that acting rational is beneficial.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entr... [stanford.edu]
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ahem, as an atheist, i take issue with your implication.
1. the golden rule is intrinsically human. It's sprung up time and again, regardless of religious influence. It springs from our empathy i imagine.
2. if god can be the source of morality, why can't we collectively as a species be the source of morality too? it's in our genes, our history. as people have argued, we know at least that morality is a human collaboration if nothing else; just see how much it's changed over our history. human rights a
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I wonder how far you can throw a terrorist?
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Yeah right these have a range of 200 ft and can carry maybe 3-4 ounces. They are toys only.
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Because a dozen drones with 4 ounces each of PETN explosive wouldn't be enough to conduct a nasty terror campaign. Oh wait, that's exactly what they would do.
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Yes, that's...what these were intended for. To expose Israel crimes.
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Drones would give Palestinian terrorists a distinct advantage in launching their attacks by providing crucial Intel. Drones could observe troop movement or the location of convoys,
Please explain how these drones would be used for all this stuff when they have a range of 160 feet.
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1. Camera drone operator sits in a concealed/covered position, such as behind a low wall or in a building.
2. Drone flies up over the wall to observe Israeli troop convoy approaching.
3. Drone operator radios the IED team.The IED team is also in a concealed position, with a buried wire running to the IED.
4. IED team detonates at the drone operator
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1) the drone range is 100m, roughly 330 feet.
2) the spec sheet linked in the summary touts the ability to stream video live
3) the 100m range assumes no hanky/panky with the wireless controller and bluetooth ( http://boingboing.net/2005/07/... [boingboing.net] ) which might make the battery time (listed at 8m) more of the limiting factor. No idea what its airspeed is to help calculate a "true range", and no idea how antenna hacks for range might affect battery/flight time.
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I don't see any reason either, even despite the use for intelligence-gathering. With such a short range, it's only going to be useful within the Gaza Strip. There shouldn't be any Israeli troops in there anyway, it's not their territory.
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If my neighbor regularly launches explosives at me, why would I let them have drones with cameras to see where to shoot those missiles at?
Because if you have a neighbor that you think is bent on murdering you, and you're dumb enough to insist on living only 160 feet from him, then you deserve to get murdered for the good of humanity.
(According to another comment here, these drones have a range of a whopping 160 feet. They're not going to be flying far from Gaza with that kind of range.)
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Because if you have a neighbor that you think is bent on murdering you, and you're dumb enough to insist on living only 160 feet from him, then you deserve to get murdered for the good of humanity.
Wait, what??? So it's right for someone with murderous intent to get their way? But somehow it's also wrong/stupid of me to give him a target?
What about just not letting the one with murderous intent get their way?
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If there's a whole bunch of murderous people living together, and you know about this, and they hate you and want to murder you, and you insist on moving in right next door to them all, then yes, you are stupid, and I for one won't mourn you when they murder you because you made yourself and easy target.
Re:How typical of religious people (Score:4, Insightful)
If my neighbor bulldozed my house and there were no cops to call, I might lob explosives at him.
Re:How typical of religious people (Score:4, Informative)
Israel has not entered Gaza in any official capacity since pulling out nearly 11 years ago, except to smack Hamas down every time the bombing got too annoying to ignore. The blockades were not in place until Arabs voted Hamas into power in a democratic election. Perhaps those Arabs could take a little responsibility for their (in)action and remove Hamas.
Those same Arabs also destroyed a functioning greenhouse complex that was bought for and given as a gift to them. Their hatred over all things Israeli has destroyed their ability and desire to make an honest life for themselves.
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I hate when news sources that don't have a f'ing clue what they're talking about believe the trumped up shit someone else tells them and rolls with it without doing ANY fact checking.
http://www.xheli.com/56h-x5sw-wifi-white.html
Explain to me again, why are you reading slashdot?
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it's sometimes not about what they are, but about what they could be. could you swap out the battery? could you i don't know, chop off any extraneous bits.
can it carry 50 grams of TNT? 50 g was the fill capacity of a ww2 era handgrenade... and TNT is what they use in their qassam rockets.
how hard would it be to chop these for parts and make a "frankendrone?"
at the very least, these things could be a source of electronics. how hard would it be to repurpose their radio receiver/wireless receiver into a comp
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I wonder if we examine it a bit deeper, that it's not just a question of someone not reading the list of proscribed goods when sending toys. The JP article is rather light on details...
Another article on the site may be relevant by the way: "Report: Military Intelligence chief says without peace process, terror wave will grow".