Google Chrome To Disallow Backspace As a 'Back' Button (independent.co.uk) 348
An anonymous reader writes: Google Chrome is going to stop people from accidentally deleting everything they've been doing. A future version of the app will stop the backspace button from also functioning as a "back" button. The change has already been rolled out in some experimental versions of the app, and has upset some users. Developers have said that the feature is only being partly enabled for now, in case there is "sufficient outcry" and it needs to be rolled back. People regularly press the button thinking that they're deleting a word from a form, developers said, but then find that they weren't actually typing into that form and so accidentally go back, losing everything they've done.
Give the option (Score:5, Insightful)
Default behaviour should be backspace does NOT take you back a page. Leave a setting somewhere obvious to turn that particular function on again. Was that so hard?
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It was dumb to map backspace to back anyway. With Internet and browsers dominating existence, keyboards should be redesigned with common browser clickies built in and separate from editing keys.
Objections? Consider your useless neck broken and your body left for the wolves.
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There used to be a set of golden rule guides on good GUI design. Some of the rules were:
1. Make every window consistent.
2. Ensure that every window has a [CANCEL], exit without changing anything button
3. Ensure that "dangerous" options are separated well away from "harmless" options.
4. Ensure that anything that could be undone was guarded with a "confirm" and with a timeout
5. Ensure that the user was queried when they tried to leave without saving work.
6. Ensure that backup copies were saved somewhere perma
Re:Give the option (Score:4)
9. Be usable by keyboard and mouse -- increasingly gone in many programs, especially frequently updated ones desperately trying to be hip
Alt+Left (Score:2)
Be usable by keyboard and mouse -- increasingly gone in many programs, especially frequently updated ones desperately trying to be hip
At least with backspace no longer going Back, Alt+Left will probably still go Back. And for all it apes Chrome, Firefox still has a traditional menu bar that you can show with the Alt key.
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Microsoft, you mean. This feature started in IE and all the other browsers copied it from there.
Re:Give the option (Score:5, Informative)
It was dumb to map backspace to back anyway. With Internet and browsers dominating existence, keyboards should be redesigned with common browser clickies built in and separate from editing keys.
Objections? Consider your useless neck broken and your body left for the wolves.
And thus the wheel of pain spins full circle. Mainframe terminals have always worked this way. The terminal is sent a non-web form, the user enters some data in fields with Tab and Return serving only and always to move the cursor around. Once you're done, there was a separate "Xmit" key to post the form.
Form submission was always explicit, and entirely compatible with high-speed touch-typists.
Would making Enter act like Tab be enough? (Score:2)
Then a web form could use JavaScript to remap Enter to act like Tab unless either A. Ctrl+Enter was pressed, or B. one of the call-to-action buttons at the end of the form is focused. Would this be enough?
Chromebook Keyboards (Score:3)
With Internet and browsers dominating existence, keyboards should be redesigned with common browser clickies built in and separate from editing keys.
Apropos of the subject, Chromebooks do exactly that. [bigcommerce.com] Who needs those function keys anyway?
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I don't use backspace but I DO use a LOT of hotkeys, so I sympathise with people who used backspace. I have been stung by this once or twice but 99% of the time nowadays the browsers are clever enough to cache EVERYTHING and you hit forward and it's all fixed.
As you said though, how about an option for it?
OOOOOOOOOPSIE DAISY! We're talking about god-damned-I-know-best-shut-your-idiot-mouth Chrome, where options are EVIL. They won't give you an option to do a god damned thing.
They can have a fast and r
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I heavily use hotkeys, too. However, I would have never guessed that anyone would map backspace to that function.
In every browser I can remember using, it's always been Alt+LeftArrow. I figure that's good enough to leave unconfigurable.
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I think it's a terrible hotkey, backspace? It's an awful idea, pretty sure I use ALT back as well. That being said, when people fuck with your workflow, it's frustrating.
Chrome loves to not give a shit about standards or let people customise things. They are as arrogant as Apple.
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I think it's a terrible hotkey, backspace? It's an awful idea, pretty sure I use ALT back as well. That being said, when people fuck with your workflow, it's frustrating.
Chrome loves to not give a shit about standards or let people customise things. They are as arrogant as Apple.
Right. those arrogant bastards at Apple won't let you configure ANYTHING like Keyboard Shortcuts. [stackexchange.com]...
Re:Give the option (Score:4, Insightful)
Talk about semantics, lol.
Apple staunchly block access and configuration to ALL kinds of things, it's "Apples way or the highway" with a SHITLOAD of their devices and software. It's why Android boomed at the start.
To try and defend them of this, on the semantics of one thing is laughable. You're fighting a battle which was lost years ago.
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Exactly! I don't understand why browsers these days like to hide choice from the user, smh. Luckily, there's a Vivaldi for that now.
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Tell that to the people who have been asking for MRU tab-switching for ages [chromium.org]
Chrome doesn't even allow plugins to enable MRU for ctrl+tab.
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I didn't even know you can't rebind keys in Chrome. I know that it's also not an option in Firefox. Why is it that browser makers have so much trouble implementing a basic feature that exists in nearly every other piece of UI software?
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How did it take so long for this *bug* to get fixed?
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Was that so hard?
It's not that it's hard, it's that after so many years of having if() statements spread all through out the code to handle very minor use cases, code become unwieldy. Around the same time users complain that your program is "bloated", and having so many options is confusing. So when you have a situation that annoys 99% of your user base, but 1% like (but honestly can do without), you make the decision to remove the if() statement, so the code can be leaner and cleaner.
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"1% like (but honestly can do without)" Yeap, by using a different program.
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Google doesn't believe in giving users any choices. Want a real menu in Chrome? Sorry, if you're on a Windows machine, no can have. Want to use '+' to tag words that must appear in searches? Sorry, now you have to use quotes, and who knows what that does if you want to get inflected forms (+dog should give you hits with dogs, "dog" should not). Want the old Google Maps or Google News interface? Outa luck.
Google; they know what's good for you better than you do.
Re: Give the option (Score:5, Insightful)
Found the Google interface designer!
"We don't put options in our apps because it would confuse your silly little heads. Now go out and play little one."
It's the Applesque "We know whats best" design methodology. And it sucks.
Re: Give the option (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, the interface designer said "Screw it. Just put them all in a huge list, but make sure it's pretty hidden."
see chrome:flags [chrome]
Chrome Development (Score:5, Informative)
Well, no, that's not why that's there. The reason 'flags' exists is because chrome doesn't branch [assembla.com]. Any features that are in development go right in the main branch, so there's no costly merging. It has basically nothing to do with UI concerns; it's a result of the dev process.
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Amen, brother. Wish I had mod points to give...
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That silly Backspace thing is not in Firefox by the way
browser.backspace_action [lifehacker.com]
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Or just take the Firefox advanced mode which is just a bunch of properties or allow it via an extension? Now about the address bar... ;)
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If there were an option for every setting on which users has varying opinions, the preferences page would be so cluttered that you'd get frustrated by the overly complex interface and complain even more loudly about that.
Uh, what?
How hard is it to have a single tab/page for "keyboard shortcuts/hotkeys"?
Plenty of UI's do exactly that.
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If there were an option for every setting on which users has varying opinions, the preferences page would be so cluttered that you'd get frustrated by the overly complex interface and complain even more loudly about that.
c.f. sawfish vs metacity
So we should abolish all user choice until every interface is basically iOS? No thanks, I prefer a huge selection of well-categorised settings to explore and personalise, its my favourite part of getting new software and usually hardware too (I'm not joking). The only reason I'm still on windows is because I can lose endless hours playing with regedit, who needs videogames? (Ok somewhat joking that time)
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That's why you choose default settings that "most" people will use but allow everything to be customised by those who want to.
Re: Give the option (Score:3)
Or don't let you back out of a form without confirmation, as many sites already do.
How about ALSO disabling pull-to-refresh when you're on a form, which is the SAME problem.
Maybe they'll get to this in 20 years.
Really? This was a design decision, not a bug? (Score:2, Insightful)
For all the pain this has called me, I'm glad our national nightmare is finally over!
Re:Really? This was a design decision, not a bug? (Score:4, Insightful)
Firefox will ask you whether you want to leave a page before going back if there's data entered on the page. Chrome should implement something similar.
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I call bullshit. I have lost many FogBugz responses over the years because Firefox inexplicably decided that a Backspace keystroke in a case edit should be interpreted as a 'Previous page' command instead of deleting the previous character. When dealing with longer responses we now tend to write them in Atom, Notepad, etc. and copy-paste the final output into FogBugz so as to avoid the pain.
I always install this add-on immediately. (Score:2)
good. (Score:2)
Long overdue (Score:5, Insightful)
Make it an option (buried in the config) for those who want it, and turn it off by default.
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Navigation confirmation without script (Score:2)
Then it becomes a nuisance for read-only pages where fast key navigation is very useful.
Alt+Left, Alt+Right
it is the form developer's fault for not building a navigation confirmation into their page
With JavaScript, one can add a listener for the beforeunload event. But a lot of pop-up ads have abused onbeforeunload to add an "are you sure you want to close this ad?" alert. Besides, how should a form developer do this in an environment where JavaScript is blocked, such as NoScript, LibreJS, tracking blockers that mistakenly block the CDN hosting a script, or a corporate MITM proxy put in place "to block ransomware". That's why some Slashdot users have recommended using the heuristic
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Have to agree with this. I doubt that their is a person in the entire world, who has used the internet for any length of time and not been inconvenienced by this default browser behaviour. Also, no one in their right mind would use this feature anyways, as it does not work when focused in on any editable text box including the URL bar. It is just the most ridiculous design you could think of.
Re: Long overdue (Score:3)
Can they instead keep full state of the page you were in and make forward button work such that all form data is not lost?
If you accidentally press back button you can just press forward button to get back to where you were.
In my limited understanding, this behavior is controlled by the website, not browser. This is done on purpose and is part of web standards (standard practices, at least). Sites can specify to preserve the form content through page back/forward, or they can specify to delete it after the page is left. Many sites use both options on purpose. The default in website software is usually to delete, as this is best for secirity (login screens, submission of cc and other personal data... most typed-in things are b
hmmm (Score:5, Funny)
Why not fix the actual problem? (Score:2)
Why not fix the actual problem of the forward button not returning them to the page with all of their work in tact?
Fucking idiot web browser developers. Can't think outside of the b
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Fucking idiot web browser developers
So you'll just let us know when you have solved this incredibly easy problem, then? It seems you know quite a bit about HTTP, HTML/5, JS, CSS, browsers and UI design. More than me obviously, because I cannot imagine just how the fuck you would store every form value, JS variable, DHTML element state, dynamically loaded resource and HTML5 local store content perfectly back to their original states. What do I know though, I'm just an idiot developer.
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I cannot imagine just how the fuck you would store every form value, JS variable, DHTML element state, dynamically loaded resource and HTML5 local store content perfectly back to their original states.
Why would you need to do that? Going back could simply hide the current page for some brief period before closing it. Go forward within that period and just make it visible again.
Or, you know, prevent the problem in the first place by not mapping the backspace key to the back function. (In FireFox: set browser.backspace_action = 2)
When you're faced with a ridiculously complicated solution, look around a bit, there's usually a much simpler one.
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Fucking idiot web browser developers
So you'll just let us know when you have solved this incredibly easy problem, then? It seems you know quite a bit about HTTP, HTML/5, JS, CSS, browsers and UI design. More than me obviously, because I cannot imagine just how the fuck you would store every form value, JS variable, DHTML element state, dynamically loaded resource and HTML5 local store content perfectly back to their original states. What do I know though, I'm just an idiot developer.
Well, the tab has a state. Before navigation, store that state. Upon returning to that page in the history, restore that state. Chrome certainly has enough RAM to do this. A single GMail tab gives me 8 chrome.exe processes (32-bit, of course) and eats up half a gig of memory. In many cases, FF, PaleMoon, and IE DO restore form fields when navigating back and forth.
I support it (Score:2)
I support this change. I've had multiple instances over the years where I'm filling out a complicated form, try to erase a couple characters by hitting the backspace key, and found myself going to previous pages and wiping out the work that I'd done. Honestly, I don't use the "Back" button enough to need a shortcut.
Now if only Macs would stop using the two-finger trackpad swipe gesture as a shortcut for back/forward buttons. I know you can turn it off (and I do on any Mac I sit down at), but the two-fin
For the three of you who actually used it (Score:3)
For the remaining billions of us who've lost countless hours of typing due to this stupid "feature", Hooray!
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And there's still hope for those three people. They can run key mapping software that detects when they're not in a form while on a web page and make backspace trigger alt-left! Just do the opposite of http://stackoverflow.com/quest... [stackoverflow.com].
WTF (Score:5, Interesting)
No! I use that feature all the time. Together with vimium, it allows me to navigate while keeping my hands on the keyboard without having to reach for my mouse all the time.
I know alt+left arrow works too, but a chorded keyboard shortcut is a lot less convenient, and I'd still have to move my hand to the arrow cluster instead of staying close to home row.
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Why do we have to suffer because some idiots can't manage to make sure their cursor is in a text box?
You're not suffering, you still have a keyboard short cut. Sometimes the computer decides to change focus on you in the middle of typing. It's very annoying when a backspace is involved.
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You don't have to suffer because we can't figure something out. You have to suffer because you're a dumbass who is hitting keys before knowing what your context/focus is.
Touch to click can move focus (Score:2)
You must be a very slow typist if you take time to check, before each press of backspace, whether or not your palm has since contacted your laptop's trackpad to cause a click event that changes the focus.
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Dude. Just map it in vimium.
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That is an option I guess. Still means remembering yet another non-trivial thing to configure on a new chrome installation. (add-ons don't sync settings)
Re: WTF (Score:2)
More than once, I've accidentally "clicked" outside a text area (particularly easy to do on a laptop trackpad) and then hit backspace, thinking I was still in a text entry box, obliterating everyth
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I like the backspace key for back as well and I use it all the time... it makes so much sense to me... it's got a back arrow right there.
Sure, I have been burned by it a couple of times, but that is why I just use the delete key or ctrl+shift+arrows to select text and then the delete key, in forms and never use the backspace button.
Anyway, as long as it is map-able, I don't have a major issue with the change.
This is a problem? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is sort of weird. As a long time Opera user I never had a problem accidentally leaving the page. My browser always remembered what I'd typed and going forward again to the form page would have all my content as I'd left it.
IMO the problem isn't the backspace key, it's unfriendly browsers.
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Chrome shouldn't change its behavior to get around this obvious failure.... The problem should be addressed at the CAUSE.
Don't browsers remember text field content? (Score:3)
I thought today's browser automatically remembered the contents of the text fields if you hit back and then go forward again (using the forward button, not clicking the link again)??
I mean, IE and FireFox remember the contents of text fields if I hit back (or backspace) and it goes back a page. Hit forward and boom, text I entered is still there.
Granted, it's not a behaviour that works 100% because of the way some websites work (especially rich text fields), but it seems to work fairly well..
Doesn't Chrome remember it?
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Yeah, I believe you are right.
Though I use RoboForm so I haven't manually filled out a web form in years.
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As far as I know every browser other than Chrome remembers it unless there's some especially shitty javascript on the page that fucks it up.
The fact that this is a problem in Chrome is news to me, but it doesn't surprise me.
Forms in original HTML or in JavaScript (Score:2)
In Firefox 46, forms that are part of the initial HTML document get restored properly, but forms created through scripted manipulation of the DOM, such as Slashdot's current reply form, usually don't. A workaround on Slashdot is to use the old reply form, which I can access by middle-clicking "Reply to This" or by right-clicking it and choosing "Open Link in New Tab".
Relevant bug (Score:3)
Pulling a Lazarus (Score:2)
Hey, Google, if your real motive here is truly to "save the (form) data", why not buy or license the use of the Lazarus extension's codebase and simply incorporate that into Chrome? Then you could leave our fucking backspace key mapped the way it's always been since 1995. The Lazarus extension for Firefox has been effectively negating that disaster for years now.
Finally (Score:2)
Do like firefox (Score:4, Informative)
There is an option for this in Firefox, although it is hidden in about:config
browser.backspace_action :
0 : go back one page (the default on Windows)
1 : scroll up (the default on linux before 2006-12-07)
2 : do nothing (the default on linux after 2006-12-07)
I like by backspace binding so on linux I change this. This should be the same for Chrome.
I don't remember losing form data because of this. The biggest cause of losing data is failed submissions (connection problem, website error, session expired, ...). In case it happens I have Lazarus which saved the day a couple of times. Instead of changing keybindings people are used to, form backup is what Chrome should do, so that you don't lose your data no matter what.
Obligatory (Score:5, Funny)
How about they freaking disable Ctrl+W (Score:2)
Better yet (Score:2)
How about saving the state before going back for any reason. Then the forward button can reload the state and you don't have to re-type anything.
That way, if any of the several other ways you might accidentally go back are also covered.
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But still the point stands, it was common in the 80s and 90s: http://www.osnews.com/story/24... [osnews.com]
I guess the AC's lawn belongs to his parents ;-)
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App as a shorthand for application has been in use for over 30 years.
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Argle bargle Republicans harrumph! (Score:2)
Yes, those Republicans and their constant drive to change things and break with tradition. Oh wait that's exactly the opposite of a typical Republican perspective. If you Americans have to crap on every discussion with this boring local politics, at least get your stupid stereotypes the right way (pun!).
Anyway, I have never purposefully hit backspace intending to page back (I use gestures or click the back button). I have accidentally lost stuff by hitting backspace (especially in "pseudo-textbox" type f
Re:Delete the fucking delete button. Apple would. (Score:5, Informative)
This one actually seems like a good design decision.
On pc the backspace and delete buttons both exist and they work exactly as they should. Darned if I care what apple does.
On chrome I also see back, forward and refresh/stop just fine.
However the problem with backspace going back is that if you are typing in a textarea and you hit backspace it deletes your text (which is what you want). However if you tab to another control that is not text editable and you hit backspace you have now gone back a page and lost what you where entering. It violates all kinds of UI principles.
Backspace to go back is just a bad UI and fixing it should definitely be done. There is no dumbing down involved.
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Speaking of which, I never cared for the way the tab key is overloaded and prevents you from typing an actual tab into the text field. Same with the Enter key that sometimes submits the form (or goes to the next line in Excel) so you have to use Ctrl-Enter to enter an actual enter. We need new buttons for Next/Previous Field, and Submit.
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The physical tab key has meant "move the output location to the next field" for a hundred years or so. The idea of a "literal tab character" was always goofy - an ASCII legacy like form-feed, bell, ENQ etc. I don't want to tab key to type an actual 0x09 character any more than I want the PageDown key to type an actual 0x0C character, or the backspace key to type an actual 0x08 character.
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The physical tab key has meant "move the output location to the next field" for a hundred years or so. The idea of a "literal tab character" was always goofy - an ASCII legacy like form-feed, bell, ENQ etc. I don't want to tab key to type an actual 0x09 character any more than I want the PageDown key to type an actual 0x0C character, or the backspace key to type an actual 0x08 character.
I'm not sure that's quite right.
The origin of tab keys is from typewriters where there were physical gears that controlled where the carriage stopped. When you pressed tab, the carriage would be moved to the next tab stop (wherever you set that). Tab is short for "tabulate" because this functionality was primarily useful for tabular data--columns of numbers, etc.
So, similar in concept to "next field" but different too.
Me, I like tabs.
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This is not a problem and it does not violate any "UI principles".
When you are editing text, backspace edits text.
When you are not editing text, backspace takes you back.
Are you going to claim that hitting U a time or two to get to "United States" on a drop down is violating "UI principles" because it behaves differently from hitting U in a text field?
Palm on trackpad (Score:2)
When you are editing text, backspace edits text.
When you are not editing text, backspace takes you back.
Accidentally touching your laptop's trackpad with your palm can change the input state from "editing text" to "not editing text". So add a third line:
When you are editing text, but you accidentally touch part of your computer wrong, backspace takes you back.
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I'm laying the blame at Microsoft's door. They also decided that the Enter key should submit a form as apparently tabbing to the submit button and *then* pressing Enter was really hard for the retards in the focus group. This causes even more issues than backspace as it is easy to have a partially completed form submitting when you didn't expect it to because (again) you weren't in a form input. Then the site grumbles at you for not filling in all the required fields...
Why in the hell would you hit Enter when you're not in a text field? Do you just randomly paw at the keys?
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Ducking piece of shift with an Fn key (Score:2)
Modifiers don't help, because Ctrl+Home and Ctrl+End are also indispensable, as are Ctrl+Shit+Home and Ctrl+Shit+End.
Is your keyboard a piece of "Shit"?
Seriously, a compact keyboard might map Home and End to Fn+Left and Fn+Right. Then Ctrl+Home, Ctrl+End, Ctrl+Shift+Home, Ctrl+Shift+End would become Ctrl+Fn+Home, Ctrl+Fn+End, Ctrl+Shift+Fn+Home, and Ctrl+Shift+Fn+End. And if you aim your left pinky well, you can hit all three modifiers (Ctrl+Shift+Fn).
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Why not just delete the delete button from the keyboard? Many other 'meta-keys' have disappeared in order to dumb-down the keyboard. Keyboards used to have both backspace and delete, which did two slightly different things. Now my Macbook pro only has a delete button that acts like backspace (not delete), no home/end keys, and all sorts of other missing keys. So, just fucking delete the delete button too. Just like the 'Forward' and 'Refresh' buttons in Firefox. Dumb everything down for the people who do nothing but watch videos on their computers. And before you say, 'Those keys were removed to keep the keyboards small for smaller laptops'... ever hear of modifier keys like fcn, control, alt?
I'm not entirely sure I'm reading your message correctly, but on an Apple keyboard:
Fn+Up = Page Up
Fn+Down = Page Down
Fn+Backspace (labeled as "delete") = Del
Fn+Left arrow = Home
Fn+Right arrow = End
Fn+Enter = Return (is it vice versa??)
Fn+Esc = Break
And just some other useful:
Option+Up = cursor to beginning of line, or if at beginning of line, up one line
Option+Down = cursor to end of line, or if at end of line, down one line
Option+Left arrow = move cursor left one word
Option+Right arrow = move cursor right
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CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL
Control got me out of this jam. Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
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A window to ask if you really want to leave the page... nope, can't see any websites exploiting that.
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Not a big free porn user, I take it?
I can't believe how long it took Chrome to introduce a button to stop "do you really want to leave..." windows popping up indefinitely. Now you just have to click the "stop this window appearing again" box on the second asking.
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Just save the contents and put them back if the user presses forward. I thought only Firefox devs were a waste of oxygen, but it seems they were merely copying Chrome devs.
There are two problems with this.
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How do they study this? The key does not get sent to the website, rather it's interpreted by the browser. Does Chrome do key logging?
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The only browser that DOESN'T do this is Chrome. FF, PaleMoon, and IE11 all do it as far as I can tell. Some pages with shitty javascript can fuck it up, but this is a standard fucking feature.