Norway Agrees On Banning New Sales Of Gas-Powered Cars By 2025: Report (electrek.co) 249
If you live in Norway, an all-electric future is likely closer than you think. The country's four leading political parties have agreed to a plan to stop selling gas-powered cars by 2025, according to a report. Electrek reports: The four main political parties, both from the right and the left, have agreed on a new energy policy that will include a ban on new gasoline-powered car sales as soon as 2025 -- making it one of the most aggressive timeline of its kind for such a policy. What's probably most remarkable here is that Norway is currently one of the world's largest Oil exporters.Tesla CEO Elon Musk was rather pleased with the announcement. He said, "Just heard that Norway will ban new sales of fuel cars in 2025. What an amazingly awesome country. You guys rock!!"
We need someone to storm that beach, boys (Score:2)
Who's volunteering for point?
WTF (Score:2)
Re:WTF (Score:5, Informative)
Re:WTF (Score:5, Informative)
All that's happened is that some of the political parties have agreed to discuss a plan banning new sales as early as 2025.
Somehow that translated to "Norway will ban new sales of fuel cars in 2025"
Re:WTF (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a different WTF - WTF is the EU flag doing as the Slashdot icon for a story about Norway? Norway isn't part of the EU - precisely because it has all that wonderful cash from oil exports.
Norway is the only country I've ever seem where socialism is sustainable - forever spending more than your tax revenue works great if you have another source of revenue to make up the difference! (If only Iraq had been set up with the same model - thongs might have gone very differently there.) Of course, they won't have a bright future if everyone stops buying that oil.
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Triple WTF
1. The news is incorrect. The conservative government were quick to say that this never was agreed.
2. Yes, not part of EU
3. Not really socialists. Labour party (maybe more like democrats) were kicked out of power. Norway now has a conservative government. (maybe more between democrats and republicans)
Re:WTF (Score:5, Interesting)
3. Not really socialists. Labour party (maybe more like democrats) were kicked out of power. Norway now has a conservative government. (maybe more between democrats and republicans)
No. Not even close. Even the right-most party of our coalition is definitively to the left of the democratic party, maybe if they elected Bernie Sanders and took a big step to the left they'd be getting close. The labour party and their coalition partners including the "socialist left" (SV) are so far off the charts I don't know how to describe it to an American. They're not totalitarian, but so egalitarian that... one of their youth politicians seriously wanted "equal pay for work". Not "equal pay for equal work", but what I just said. They want us out of NATO, if we just don't threaten anyone nobody will threaten us. That really worked out great for us during WWII, we totally didn't threaten Germany in any way and they totally didn't occupy us for five years. Sigh.
Maybe I'll try for a Star Trek analogy since this is /., in one of the TNG episodes Q was stripped of his power and chose the human race as his sanctuary when he had nothing. Well, if I was stripped of everything and had to pick a country on earth I'd pick Norway. Nowhere else are you treated with that much pity, this much aid, so few demands and so little resentment. Even when we had a mass murderer (Breivik) killing almost 70 of our teens and a dozen more in total the worst that happen was that one person threw a shoe - and he apoligized to the court. I've heard it said about Gandhi you'd hardly believe such a man could exist, well Norway is pretty much the same when it comes to nations. I'm amazed that our naivety has gotten us so far.
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It's probably because literally everyone loves you, Norway. You're like the cool cousin who got rich and somehow didn't turn into a completely FYGM shitheel because of it.
And a harsh climate breeds people who value community, because sometimes that was all people had left.
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If only Iraq had been set up with the same model - thongs might have gone very differently there.
Well if it had worked in Iran when they tried Iraq might have followed after, you should read up on what happened there.
To sum it up, some bad guys didn't like the idea of a socialist utopia in Iran so the staged a coup that led to the shithole Iran is today.
As for your comment on sustainable socialism you clearly have a very narrow idea of what socialism is that doesn't include most functional socialism in the world.
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To sum it up, some bad guys didn't like the idea of a socialist utopia in Iran so the staged a coup that led to the shithole Iran is today.
Ahh yes, Operation Ajax. Those bad guys? The US and the UK.
But remember, the refugee crisis isn't our problem, the Middle East is just full of violent fucked up people completely independent of foreign meddling, right? Right?
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Norway is not socialist, far from it. Norway arguably is a more market economy than even the United States. https://fee.org/articles/the-m... [fee.org]
That's an interesting article. Sounds like a system that would actually work.
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You 'sound' sober, must be the crack of dawn there. Get to it.
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Complaining about literally everything is the Danish national sport. We're like the redheaded stepchild of Scandinavia.
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Socialism works wonderfully well in Finland as well. My wife, kid and myself live in Finland, so I should know.
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Admittedly Finland's debt to GDP is better than the US, but that's not saying much. In the past 30 years it has grown from 10% of GDP to over 60%. Socialism always looks nice until you run our of other people's money (then it looks like Venezuela). Still, enjoy it while it lasts.
Re:WTF (Score:4, Insightful)
race-to-the-bottom capitalism works, until there's no new markets (all the wealth is in the hands of the wealthy, and the poor throngs have no money to spend. The rich can't spend money fast enough, and the poor, well, they can just eat cake), then things end up like Somalia. So, enjoy it while it lasts.
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Why do you think that comparing a quantity with a rate is a meaningful economic metric?
Why do you think that 60% is a large value for that metric ?
Re:WTF (Score:4, Interesting)
As it happens, the past 30 years have also seen a huge shift to the right. By contrast, Finland's socialist period saw the shift from an agrarian backwater to an industrial power.
Socialism works as long as people in charge care more about building up the country more than filling their pockets or advancing their pet ideology (ironically enough, that includes socialism itself). Sadly, our current government is determined to not just loot the country for the benefit of the owning class but also destroying the very institutions that would allow it to be rebuilt, such as education, postal system, public roads, and government ownership of various industries.
In any case it doesn't matter. Capitalism nearly collapsed when Great Depression put people out of work, and thus made them unable to participate in the economy. This time the same is done by technological progress brought on by capitalism's own inexorable logic. The Age of Capital is ending, and the shadow of Soviet Union still weights down socialism as a viable alternative making peaceful transition difficult if not impossible, so I suppose we're heading for another age of turmoil and revolutions. The question is: what, if anything, will be left standing after Capitalism is done falling?
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forever spending more than your tax revenue works great if you have another source of revenue to make up the difference!
No matter how much money you earn from whatever source it's always possible to live beyond your means. For example, just because you have lots of oil revenue doesn't mean that you can be undisciplined in how you spend and re-invest it. That's why Venezuela, which should be a rich country with such enormous reserves of oil, is instead experiencing extreme poverty with shortages of electricity, clean water, food, toilet paper, medicine and just about everything else that people need and want. It's unscientifi
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(If only Iraq had been set up with the same model - thongs might have gone very differently there.).
Yes, Iraqi thongs have always been a disappointment. But let's be fair to them, they are miles ahead in the mankini industry.
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Also, it is interesting on how the sale ban would work.
Will all sales be banned or just the new imports (and people will be able to sell their cars, much like with full auto guns in the US)? That is, if I lived there, would I need to buy multiple cars now or would I still be able to buy a used car later (at a higher price)?
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People would still be able to sell their vehicles - it mentioned that it'd be a ban on NEW car sales. So it'd probably be like other bans around - you get a boost in sales right before the ban goes into place. Saw that with incandescent light bulbs here in the USA. Even though they're really still available - 'special duty', 'industrial', 'utility', etc... They still sell them for use in fridges, ovens, etc...
So, given that vehicles are averaging something like 15 years now, what I figure is that you'd
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Or is this one of those "diesel and CNG don't count as gas" sort of deals that lets them play propaganda games?
In 2014, in Norway, 95% of its electricity was hydroelectric which may mean they may not need fossil fuels for cars. By building another dam or add other renewable electricity sources Norway can provide the additional needs of transportation. Besides, the North Sea is being depleted of fossil fuels and eventually it will be all gone. One estimate I've seen is that as of 2010, Norway had about 24 years of North Sea oil production time left and their production has fallen to half of it's 2000 volume and conti
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Let's read the article and find out:
"gasoline-powered car sales (diesel or petrol) "
"Norway’s initiative looks like it could be the first made into law and would only allow zero-emission vehicles to be sold in the country starting in less than a decade."
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Kind of what I figured. Exempt Diesel, CNG, vehicles for those living outside urban areas, vehicles 'designed for towing'(without checking to see if the buy will actually tow anything), motorcycles, etc...
Besides the whole 'minority of a minority party proposed this', there's plenty of ways to water it down to uselessness, even if it's not like a second term president issuing an executive order to become effective in 12 years. When him AND his successor are gone, and the successor or his successor can sim
Cuban Norway . . . (Score:3, Interesting)
So there will be a ban on "new" gas powered cars. But what about older, used cars? I'm thinking the Norwegians will go the way of the Cubans, and develop ways to keep the older cars running as long as possible. In Havana, you can see running examples of the best that Detroit produced in the 50's. Ingenuity, duck tape, chewing gum and chicken wire keep them running. I'm guessing that the Norwegians can pull off that feat, as well.
Plus, the Norwegians are super cool, brave, daring and unafraid. What do you cook for Christmas dinner? Toss a frozen Butterball in the oven? Norwegians skewer a sheep's head on a pike in their backyards, and cook it with a flame thrower. Supposedly, the eyes of the critter taste the best.
I would not mess with those folks. In other news, the Norwegians have wisely invested their oil fortunes for future generations. Unlike some Gulf states, who build fancy hotel palaces.
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Once the electric technology is developed enough I probably would be able to (if such a need arises) convert my W123 to electric power and still have the same range and performance as it does now.
That is, only the power source would change, the car would still have no internet connectivity, touch screens or anything like that.
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You don't need to go to Cuba to see that. Most of Ohio and lots of rural parts of PA do all sorts of things to keep older cars running. Lower Ohio has it better than where I live as winter road salts and general ice and snow cause damage to cars here. I lived in Columbus OH for a few years though and it was funny you'd see expensive brand new Dodge Vipers and Porsche 911's drive next to 1950's and 1960's era beaters. I'm sure other places are much the same, I just haven't seen them to say myself.
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You never see old cars in rust country. Once they pass their value minimum, people keep them out of the crap. Especially if they had to pay for rust repair.
Come to California, cars just don't rust here, unless you live in a beach house. Even then, it's nothing like salted roads rust.
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Again... Get far enough south even around here and you see plenty of old cars. Near Columbus or Pittsburgh they don't get snow (it got a very light dusting in Columbus once in the 3 and a half years I lived there), though plenty enough rain all year round. So you do see a lot of old cars. Most commonly the big boats, like old caddies, my grandmother could have owned. They have very... Creative modifications like a 2x4 for a replacement bumper held on by rope and who knows what. Lots of antique VW bugs (some
Re:Cuban Norway . . . (Score:4, Interesting)
My bet is that since Norway already has the highest per capita usage of electric cars, the gasoline ones will simply slowly go extinct after the legislation. Gas and diesel are generally more expensive in Europe than the USA to begin with, and people are welcoming the switch.
I imagine 10 or 20 years after the ban of new sales, gas stations might start to disappear first. Once the infrastructure for gasoline vehicles is gone, they'll start to die off even faster -- my bet is most will be sold to other countries. At least in Cuba, there are gas stations. No one is going to keep up an old clunker if they have to import and store the gasoline themselves.... and figure out where to gas up on long trips.
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In Havana, you can see running examples of the best that Detroit produced in the 50's. Ingenuity, duck tape, chewing gum and chicken wire keep them running. I'm guessing that the Norwegians can pull off that feat, as well.
Havana looks like that due to years of trade restrictions and lack of local manufacturing. It's not hard to keep a car running for a really long time when you don't have either of those. There's a great many cars from the 50s in the world that look just as good as they did 66 years ago.
But really that's ignoring the fact that the Nordic and American cultures are very different. People in this part of the world don't buy for a what-if scenario. They buy what suits them nearly all the time and hire alternativ
They'll Do It, Too (Score:3)
They have excellent roads and infrastructure and the potential for cheap renewable energy. If anyone in Europe can make that happen, Norway can....
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On topic: Norway gets a lot of things right!
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They have big problems with rabid trolls. Saw a documentary on netfilx.
Kinda hypocritical (Score:3)
If they were really against oil as an energy source, they would stop drilling for it and selling it.
Kinda not hypocritical (Score:2)
Had they stopped selling oil, you would them claim they are patronizing importer countries by not letting them make the "incorrect" decision to keep using oil. Conveniently, you would be able to accuse them of a moral failing no matter what choice they made.
Or maybe they recognize that in some areas it is easier to convert to non-gas infrastructure than others and that it is reasonable to convert in the easier places first while continuing to use gas-powered cars in other areas.
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Oil's days are numbered but the decision isn't all based on global warming. There are some very real benefits to be had locally when not burning crap the biggest of which is better air quality. Australia is a dirty dirty polluting place per capita not even counting the moutains of coal we sell overseas rather than burning it ourselves. Yet when I moved to Europe I was astonished by the thick smell of petrol and diesel as I walk down the street compare to back home.
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They have to import petroleum because much of their oil is refined into other things. But yes, they are aware that getting all that oil and gas out of the ground has an effect on the climate, which is why they are aiming to be carbon neutral by 2030 and really pushing green technology like EVs. By paying the initially higher costs themselves now they not only offset the damage that burning that oil and gas is doing by advancing the technology quicker than it otherwise would, but they prepare their economy f
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I thought of a better way to explain it. The gulf states are going to produce oil and use it to enrich themselves, caring little about the environment. The US isn't much better. But Norway is using the oil wealth to address climate change, to develop the technologies needed and get them down to competitive prices, and show how we can live at an extremely high standard while remaining carbon neutral.
When you consider how many times it has been argued that power = quality of life on Slashdot, it's clear that
Hydropower (Score:5, Interesting)
What's probably most remarkable here is that Norway is currently one of the world's largest Oil exporters.
They also have plenty of hydroelectric power, so they can basically power themselves sustainably while selling all the oil. Talk about winning the geographic lottery.
Will be interesting to watch. Thanks for TOFTT, No (Score:2)
It will be interesting to see how this works, if they pull it off at all and how much it costs them. I predict one of two things will happen:
A) It will work pretty well in Norway, and half of Slashdot will spend far too many words arguing why it can't work in their country.
B) It will completely and utterly fail in Norway, yet half of Slashdot will spend far too many words arguing why it'll definitely work in their country.
Can just a few of us agree now that however this turns out in Norway, it'll be a pr
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If its just "new petrol and diesel car sales" does that mean they will ban used car sales? Used car imports? This seems like one of those loopholes that could possibly be widely exploited if it was allowed.
The other thing I would wonder about is what the math is on electric consumption. Do they have a major electricity surplus or will they have to think about increasing electric rates or build new power generation facilities to handle the increased load?
They're on hydro. Would need 30% more electricity (Score:2)
Norway's geography and population distribution is ideally suited for hydroelectric, so they get most of their electricity that way. Whether they import or export, and their cost, depends on recent rains. During the rainy season of years with lots of rain, they have plenty of inexpensive electricity. They export a small amount of electricity during those times. During the drier months and during years with less precipitation, electricity is more scarce and more expensive. They import electricity during t
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Can just a few of us agree now that however this turns out in Norway, it'll be a pretty good indication of how well it might work elsewhere?
The major disadvantages of electric cars at this point are political - at least in the US.
So given political support in Norway (Score:2)
We see from this story that the political support in Norway is so much that they are REQUIRING electric cars. Not encouraging them, but requiring them. Certainly that's a HUGE political advantage, right?
Therefore, if it turns out to be a huge failure, that's not because of political opposition, but due to some other problem. So we can agree that if it fails in Norway, you'll need to reconsider your current thinking, correct?
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We see from this story that the political support in Norway is so much that they are REQUIRING electric cars. Not encouraging them, but requiring them. Certainly that's a HUGE political advantage, right?
Too bad I didn't mention the US in my post, eh? Oh. Wait.
I was talking about the USA, where there are political forces in play that have actually banned Tesla dealerships.
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I was talking about the USA, where there are political forces in play that have actually banned Tesla dealerships.
There's no such thing as a Tesla "dealership", which is actually the problem, because many states have mandated that manufacturers can't sell cars directly, that they must be sold through dealerships.
While I object to such laws as well, let's not pretend that it's because Teslas are electric. Indeed, they're getting away with more exceptions to the franchise laws than they would have if they were traditional gasoline vehicles.
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It might work in Norway, but I wouldnt take that as granted that its a good indication of success elsewhere - here in the UK, such a decree would destroy new car ownership for a good portion of the public. Why? Because a good portion of the UKs population live in cities in housing with no offstreet parking, no guaranteed parking space onstreet and very poor public transport - to get to my local hospital from my previous house would be two bus changes and a trip time of over an hour, or 15 minutes by car.
Its
This would make sense to me (Score:2)
No gas cars? (Score:2)
Why is this marked EU.... (Score:2)
... when Norway is not part of the EU?
Actually (Score:2)
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The incentive for the state is that there are quite huge tax gains on it "For instance, in January of 2008, 1 Volvo V50 D5 cost in Portugal €49.100,00 while it was €34.275,00 in Spain and €28.545,00 in Sweeden
Democracy (Score:2)
While I support the policy, I dislike the approach.
Democracy is when the Sovereign People makes choices, not when politicians agree in their back and offer no political choices. Such long term policy could have been settled by a referendum
irrelevent (Score:2)
Switching cars from gasoline to diesel isn't going to make any difference.
Just gasoline? (Score:2)
Golfcarts for Danes, Cars for Nomenklatura? (Score:2)
So they want to mandate lesser "cars" for their citizens while letting their nomenklatura drive actual cars? So far, about anything affordable to the average person trends towards golfcart size, as opposed to usable size. Of course, exotics and other vehicles meant for "betters" are untouched.
Not surprised given that it is the technocratic EU, where you accept what your "betters" give you and don't question their sins - unless you want to be smote from the Earth as an enemy of mankind.
But don't let a litt
Re:Winter? (Score:5, Funny)
It's not exactly brave to give up cars when you have flying reindeer to rely on.
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Norway, North Pole, what's the difference?
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Internet speed.
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They'll pull their cars with reindeer?
Chances are this goal may incentivize companies to resolve this challenge? Also, given Norway is a large oil producing country, we may simply see oil being redirected to other needs, rather than eliminated completely and as an energy source?
Re:Winter? (Score:5, Informative)
You're thinking of the Sami ;)
As far as the Nordics go, Norwegians are the "nouveau riche". They weren't very wealthy, then happened to come into a lot of money and aren't always clear on what they should do with it. The sort of people who would break from lunch in a boardroom to go cross-country skiing. I live in Iceland and it seems everyone here has some sort of story about how they or a friend or a company or NGO or whatever were just given things by Norway for some reason or another - ambulences, a helicopter, boots, you name it.It seems everyone, except some Swedes, likes the Norwegians.
For the others:
Sweden has the reputation of being trendy, extremely liberal to the point of social experimentation, and a bit metrosexual. The sort of place where even if you got mugged by a Hell's Ångel, it'd be by someone named Sven who makes his own scented beard oil, wielding a designer knife and riding on a Husqvarna because it's better for the environment than a Harley and, you know, they make the best sewing machines....
Danes tend to fit German stereotypes better than the Germans do. They also have a reputation for cheap beer (by Nordic standards - although it tends to be the Nordic equivalent of Budweiser) and casual (if sometimes unintended) racism.
The Finnish stereotype is often of someone who's depressed, tough, and loves vodka and saunas. But not knowing any Finns, I have no clue as to the accuracy of the stereotype.
Icelanders tend to be like your laid back cousin who is always coming up with these crazy schemes to make money and dismissing any criticism of them as needless pessimism, constantly getting in trouble, but picking himself up and trying again. Icelanders throughout history have wavered between "We're proud and independent, don't even think of trying to control us!" and "Um, hey, could someone, um, come and help us fix this giant mess we've made for ourselves?" The whole country was founded based on the concept of achieving independence from Norwegian rule, then a couple hundred years later basically invited Norway in to stop them from killing each other.
The Faroes... everyone seems to forget that they exist, even Danes (they're a country in the Danish realm). When Danes remember that they exist, it's usually in the context of debt. To Icelanders, the Faroe Islands are that place where a family would put their trampoline on the roof because it's the only land flat enough for it, and where the signs are so hilarious that it seems that the language was intentionally designed as a prank. For example, read as Icelandic, this sign [menn.is] tells people it's permissible for them to utilize vaginas after October 15th and, while it might be tempting to use them earlier, not to; this one [gthg.blog.is] asks if you're a penis; while this one [123.is] offers cultural "fucking tours" led by "Skúli the Fucker".
Greenland often fits in lists of Nordics because it's in the Danish realm, but it has little in common culturally. Greenland seems to want little to do with Denmark, while Denmark seems to have the primary goal of dragging out any independence movement as long as possible so it can profit as much from Greenland's resources in the interrim.
Anyway, that's your stereotype guide to the Nordics.
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Danes tend to fit German stereotypes better than the Germans do. They also have a reputation for cheap beer (by Nordic standards - although it tends to be the Nordic equivalent of Budweiser) and casual (if sometimes unintended) racism.
I must protest. We are not nearly as humorless as the typically dour Germans, and we are much much worse drivers. And while our basic cheap beer is a bit shitty, most people stick with the premium and micro brews.
Stereotypical Danes, from the perspective of a Dane: Beer-drinkin', pork-eatin', kamelåså-speakin', always complainin', thinkin' we're the center of the universe.
Also, we love Norwegians and even though we publicly make fun of the Swedes, they are our brother people forever, and we will n
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I primarily transport myself by car, secondarily by public transport and occasionally by bicycle. It's true that we are horrible cyclists, but our driving is equally shitty.
I can only speak for myself and the people I know, but we generally like the Icelanders as much as the other Nordic peoples, but I'll admit that we don't think about Iceland or the Faroe Islands nearly as much as we think of and interact with Norway and Sweden. So maybe on the same level as Finland? We don't quite understand you 100%, bu
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You've got it backwards. The mineral law stipulates that Greenland gets 100% of the royalties on mineral extraction up to 500m krónur without reduction in the block grant, then everything after that is shared depending on a contract that both parties have to approve -
Re:Winter? (Score:5, Insightful)
They're doing what the Saudis are doing, laying the groundwork for the post-fossil fuel age. The Koch Brothers may be funding psuedoskepticism, and there may be lots of people who believe AGW is an evil lie designed by Satan and/or Communists, but countries like Norway and Saudi Arabia, major oil producers that they are, know very well that sooner or later, and likely sometime after the middle of this century, the Age of Oil is going to come to an end.
Norway is also one of those smarter states who has been stowing away oil revenues, unlike, say Venezuela and Alberta, and the Saudis are following suit with their own sovereign wealth fund, the largest in history.
Re:Winter? (Score:4, Insightful)
They're doing what the Saudis are doing, laying the groundwork for the post-fossil fuel age. The Koch Brothers may be funding psuedoskepticism, and there may be lots of people who believe AGW is an evil lie designed by Satan and/or Communists, but countries like Norway and Saudi Arabia, major oil producers that they are, know very well that sooner or later, and likely sometime after the middle of this century, the Age of Oil is going to come to an end.
Norway is also one of those smarter states who has been stowing away oil revenues, unlike, say Venezuela and Alberta, and the Saudis are following suit with their own sovereign wealth fund, the largest in history.
To add to your excellent post:
“The Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil.” -- Sheikh Zaki Yamani, Saudi Arabian oil minister '62-'86
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Free from debt? Free from crumbling infrastructure? Free from starving sick people? Perhaps even free from having to decide which con artist to vote in as Emperor.
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You're not seriously suggesting they're going to stop pumping and selling oil to other countries that are still guzzling it, right?
I have no idea how this will work in Norway, but here in the US, such a plan would have to include a hell of a lot of exceptions for people and situations in which an electric vehicle won't work. My next car may be all electric since I never drive far, but my brother's family routinely drives rather long distances to visit their in-laws, and my parents drive across several stat
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Hopefully manufacturers will eventually get the range to a reasonable "all day driving" distance
You mean, like, by 2025?
Re:Winter? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm willing to bet that the 'resolution' is like a lot of resolutions - full of sound and fury, but set so far in the future that it can be quietly 'forgotten' by everybody but a few extremists, and the new administration, not feeling bound by what their predecessors promised, can either disclaim the resolution or push it back. "Sorry, technology didn't progress quite as fast as they hoped".
There will probably also be huge gaping loopholes. To use the USA as an example, "commercial trucks" were, and in many cases still are, exempt from some of the more stringent pollution and mileage requirements.
One problem that this caused is that the mileage requirements actually drove more people to drive trucks - that could have the abilities they were looking for. So in some ways, the EPA requirements actually drove increased gasoline usage, because the different layers of regulation drove some people to drive less fuel efficient vehicles.
Re:Winter? (Score:4, Interesting)
In Norway, 400 kilometers is "all day driving". Literally - it came as something of a surprise after arriving there and having to drive from Oslo to Bergen. Took 8 hours and we drove "highway" (lol) all the way. A highway in Norway is something where you move from curve to curve, and you actually have two whole lanes so you don't need to wait until the opposing cars are gone before you can use the road. At least, not all the time.
I think a Tesla is uniquely suited to Norway: lots of very cheap hydro-electric power, which they sell but could also use themselves. Lots of money to subsidize the transition. Lots of money for building new infrastructure. I'm quite jealous :)
Re:Winter? (Score:5, Informative)
I have no problem traveling hundreds of miles a day in my electric car (a Tesla). While it adds time, it's not a huge amount since that time can often be spent doing something useful while the car charges. The Tesla superchargers tend to be located at places where there are plenty of amenities available. In my trip from the Bay Area to Seattle charging added maybe 4 hours to my trip. During the stops I often would grab a bite to eat or shop. Often the car was ready to continue before I was. In their cross-country trip they spent roughly 20% of the time charging and the other 80% of the time driving.
Long trips are getting easier and easier as more and more superchargers are installed. The newer cars also charge faster than mine does and have a longer range.
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The same way they always have?
Are you implying that electric cars don't do well in the cold? Because if you are, you're misinformed. Li Ion based batteries do poorly in heat, but the cold doesn't bother them anywhere near as much as the heat does. Also, Tesla basically has a cooling/heating system just for the batteries to keep them at an optimum temp.
Norway already has the highest number of electric vehicles per capita in the world -- mostly Teslas... and the people love them.
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The same way they always have?
Are you implying that electric cars don't do well in the cold? Because if you are, you're misinformed. Li Ion based batteries do poorly in heat, but the cold doesn't bother them anywhere near as much as the heat does.
A lot of people get the idea that cold weather kills batteris because that's when they seem to fail. Heat has been killing the thing for a long time before the actual failure point.
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A lot of people get the idea that cold weather kills batteris because that's when they seem to fail. Heat has been killing the thing for a long time before the actual failure point.
Indeed, cold weather tends to preserve them.
However, sufficient cold will temporarily reduce the power of the batter, while heat will permanently reduce it, it's just that the temporary loss is greater than the permanent. Doesn't help that you need more power to start a cold engine.
So you could, theoretically speaking, ship many 'failed' batteries that are a decade old from Alaska, where they can no longer start a car at -40, down to where it never gets below 0, and get at least a few more years out of the
You should explain that to Tesla (Score:2, Insightful)
> Are you implying that electric cars don't do well in the cold? Because if you are, you're misinformed. Li Ion based batteries do poorly in heat, but the cold doesn't bother them anywhere near as much as the heat does. Also, Tesla basically has a cooling/heating system just for the batteries
By installing a battery heater in their California model cars, is Tesla implying that li-ion batteries don't do well in the cold? If they are, they're misinformed - or you are.
The chemists who make the batteries say
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WTF is "-4F"? Stop inventing imaginary units, boy!
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Li Ion based batteries do poorly in heat, but the cold doesn't bother them anywhere near as much as the heat does.
I've used Li-ion batteries in a lot of product designs, and generally you shouldn't charge them below 0degC, and you shouldn't discharge them below -20degC. Keep in mind these aren't likely the same as the ones used in modern EVs, but I can't seem to find a source for that specifically...
As an aside, the only batteries I've found that are able to work reliably at -40degC are pure lead spiral wound (note: not lead-acid). The -40degC requirement is standard for outdoor industrial applications in Canada, and I
Re:Winter? (Score:5, Interesting)
I am told that EVs handle this temperature just fine, because they use EVs in Norway.
Re: Winter? (Score:2)
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People can use bicycles [indiegogo.com] in winter. People already use hybrid/electric cars in Canada and in other countries with cold seasons.
What's the point of your comment again? You've never seen snow in your life or something?
Tesla Model D[og] (Score:2)
Mush! Two dogs try to pull a car uphill in West Sussex [dailymail.co.uk]]
Re:Norway's solution (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, the electricity will come from renewable energy, from a country that's one of the leading hydroelectric-powered countries in the world.
Here, fixed that for you. What kind of idiot would burn an export article for expensive electricity in Norway?
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Of course, the electricity will come from renewable energy, from a country that's one of the leading hydroelectric-powered countries in the world.
Here, fixed that for you. What kind of idiot would burn an export article for expensive electricity in Norway?
What, you've never seen "Jurassic Park"? Dinosaurs *are* renewable.
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Norway will abandon gas-powered cars, probably in favor of electric cars. Of course, the electricity will come from fossil fuels burned in power plants, from a country that's one of the leading oil producers in the world. The decision makes the environmentalists happy without accomplishing anything of value.
Read my post above: 95% of Norway's electricity is hydroelectric. Putting up some windmills, photo voltaic infrastructure and maybe another dam will provide the necessary electricity for transportation.
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You're funny.
Norway gets its electricity from hydropower. We started building out hydropower long before we found oil. Yes, we export oil. We're also an exporter of clean hydropower.
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That or they will just jam a gas generator on a trailer or in the luggage rack of the electric car or something.
Something like this
http://autoweek.com/article/ca... [autoweek.com]
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Did you read the article?
"gasoline-powered car sales (diesel or petrol) "
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Did you read the article?
What fun is that? It interferes with the bubble's structure.
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Either way, I'm ready [blogspot.com].
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Re:Elon Musk (Score:4, Interesting)
Business man who opened up all of his patents to his competitors and whose competitors are all currently engineering all-electric vehicles as well is happy because it's the right thing to do. If you think Telsa will be the only all-electric car company by then, you're misinformed.
All cars are going hybrid or electric-only soon -- though a few companies are still toying with hydrogen fuel cells. Those hydrogen powered vehicles are still on the drawing board as the only commercially successful ones were large passenger buses, and they're still not very well designed.
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If they're good enough to stand on their own, then why do they need legislation? Your post makes no sense.
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Republicans won't buy inferior cars without the government forcing them to, so the is a good thing.
Republicans in Norway?
President Gerald Fjord was a Republican; I hear Norway is 50% Fjords... at least that's what Slartibartfast was claiming...
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This is especially wrong as in Europe the word "gas" means just that, gas. Ie, LPG or CNG. In Poland, around 15% of cars use LPG.
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Airstream did a test with being towed by the Model X. While the range was reduced, it wasn't a huge amount, something like 30% reduction in range. [autoblog.com] By the time they phase out ICE vehicles, EVs should have plenty of towing capacity and even greater range.
The nice thing with electrics is they have an insane amount of torque that puts diesels to shame.
As it is, I'm taking my model S camping next week out in the middle of nowhere. While I'm not towing anything, I have no problem getting there and back. Hell, I d