Tesla Model S Floats Well Enough To Act As a Boat, According To Elon Musk 238
It appears a Tesla Model S car can float and effectively drive on water. Tesla CEO Elon Musk tweeted a video of a Model S car which was able to float well through a flooded tunnel in Kazakhstan. Musk also noted that the company "definitely" doesn't recommend trying this -- but still vouched for the availability of this feature. The Guardian reports: The car appears to power through the water using the thrust of the wheels turning in the water, as the bow wave laps over the car's bonnet. Most internal combustion engine cars are sunk in water when the exhaust becomes flooded, which is why serious off-roaders have big exhaust scoops leading to the roof. Electric cars don't suffer from that particular issue, but how the rest of the car will react is unknown.
the only thing left (Score:2)
is for it to fly
Re:the only thing left (Score:4, Interesting)
It actually has enough power to, versus its weight, if one were to retrofit the drivetrain to turn a prop and affix some reasonably efficient wings and flight surfaces. A typical Cessna weighs a bit over a tonne and has an engine in the ballpark of 120kW or so. Even the cheapest Model S is about 2 tonnes and puts out about 250kW. The high performance versions are about 200kg heavier and pump out vastly more power.
Heck, you could probably fly one with just a big parasail for lift - the L/D ratio of 4-5 is probably good enough, at least for the mid-range versions and possibly the low-end as well. You just need to find a good way to get that motor power going to one or more props.
Re:the only thing left (Score:5, Funny)
Oh good lord, don't give them ideas. Now my model 3 is going to be delayed while they work out the kinks in the flight systems and autopilot.
I blame you.
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Awesome! Thank you!
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While your Cessna needs to run its engine on a substantial fraction of its rated power (typically 60% or more), any decent car will only need low double digit kW to cruise. Comparing the rated power is utterly misleading, and your Tesla aircraft would drain its batteries and overheat the motor within minutes.
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And yet the OP is correct, it could fly, under it's own power. Perhaps just not for very long. Or add bigger, more efficient wings, fly slower, and you can get the required power down almost as low as you care to go. It's not like he proposed turning it into a helicopter.
Not quite. (Score:5, Insightful)
have big exhaust scoops
Don't you mean "intake snorkel?"
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have big exhaust scoops
Don't you mean "intake snorkel?"
Whatever floats your Tesla.
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Came here to say this. Intake snorkels are common, I've never seen an "exhaust scoop" (or any kind of raised exhaust on an actual offroad truck, vs. a coal-rolling bro-dozer) and they aren't necessary - a turndown at the exhaust tip will keep the exhaust from flooding under light submersion, and if you go deep, just stay on the gas and the exhaust flow will keep the water out.
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No, he's referring to the AK that comes off the Glock.
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Here's a fine read... yes there are both and yes sometimes the exhaust side is useful.
Great Vietnam era story on page 2 as well.
http://forums.off-road.com/jee... [off-road.com]
Makes sense (Score:5, Funny)
Teslas have been floating on government subsidies for years.
Re:Makes sense (Score:4, Funny)
Teslas have been floating on government subsidies for years.
Impossible. Elon is a visionary business genius. Everyone in the media tells me so.
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What subsidies?
Re:Makes sense (Score:4, Insightful)
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And your point would be? A tax credit IS a subsidy in that the taxpayer doesn't have to pay it to the government and in some cases may even get a refund!
Re:Makes sense (Score:4, Interesting)
But it's not specially for Tesla, nor is it Tesla's fault the government subsidizes it. It's the governments' fault. And in a democracy where the government is chosen, it is, thus, the citizens' fault. Basically: it's your fault. ;-)
Well, ok, I'm sure you voted for the good guys who never give out subsidies, but still...
Point being, the parent poster was specifically calling out Tesla, and thus implied they were getting some sort of unfair and unethical advantage. But it's not limited to Tesla, and it's debatable whether it's unethical. If the government gave you a taxbreak so you'd only have to pay half your taxes, would you refuse because you thought it unfair? I very much doubt it. I know I wouldn't.
So... is it necessary and a good thing the government masively subsidises stuff like electric cars, solar panels, windmills, etc. Hell no. It costs loads of money and often just keeps non-profitable companies afloat with taxpayers' money. Not saying it's always the case, and maybe Tesla would survive without the subsidies, but that's what it boils down to most of the time.
However, the ones to blame is the government allowing, nay, stimulating such squander. NOT the companies who just make use of the money that is thrown at them.
In my country they're starting subsidising electric cars too, now. It's foolishness. Getting 3000 euro or not for a 50000 euro Tesla for instance, will not deter or stimulate a person rich enough to buy one. I mean, if you're rich enough to buy one in the first place, and they want one, they will buy one, regardless of whether they get a 3000 euro reduction. This is just an added bonus to the rich, which don't really need them. so the theory that it's need to 'stimulate' innovative technologies so they break through on the market, is basically bull. It doesn't really help, and it costs the populace dearly anyway.
When an electric car will go down to 15-20000 euro, and becomes viable for ordinary citizens, THEN it would matter in deciding to buy one or not. But at that time, they'll undoubtedly stop giving subsidies, as they always do. Because it's beginning to cost too much, and the rich elite (many of whom are the same politicians that voted for the subsidies in the first place) has already got one anyway. Of course, the official explanation by then is that 'the goal has been achieved' and thus no more subsidies are necessary.
It's all crap. If a new technology is better than old technology, it will manage to break through with or without taxing your citizens, including the poorest, to pay for a sweet bonus for the rich. There are very few technologies that have inherent advantages, and yet that need heavy subsidies to stay afloat, certainly for longer than a few years. After that, it just becomes a monetary black hole where you pour in taxpayers' money endlessly, so a company which isn't competitive stays afloat while we're paying for it - often doubly so.
It's a distortion of the free market, and I believe the disadvantages of such a system are far bigger than the occasional advantage of having a new technology that might or might not have broken through without it, for the simple reason that most WOULD have broken through eventually anyway, if they're really that good and better than old technology.
yes, that's correct (Score:2)
It allows them to sell their car for $7500 more without suffering the reduction in sales that would come with the customer paying $7500 more.
That's a subsidy to Tesla.
What did you think it is? The point of the program is to increase EV adoption by making the cars cheaper to acquire. How could you not see that as a subsidy benefiting Tesla (or any EV seller)?
Re:Makes sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Makes sense (Score:4, Insightful)
Unlike GM, which got a massive bailout, or VW which is partially owned by the (german) government, or virtually any other big car company who all get this or that benefit package.
You are right. Those are not subsidies. At least not by name.
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They are not subsidies strictly spoken, but I guess one could call it financial advantages, though. That said, it's not specifically for Tesla, and it's not Tesla that is asking for it; it's just the government that is doing it. So one can hardly blame Tesla for it.
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Yup. My first Japanese car (a Subaru) lasted fourteen years. That's longer than both american cars I'd owned previously, put together, twice over, and then some.
So, 14 years.....divided by two cars = 7 years per car.....twice over = 3.5 years per car....."and then some."
So you only got 3 years each out of two American cars? What'd you do? Run them into an overpass abutment when you were driving home piss drunk at 3 in the morning?
I've never had an American car last less than 14 years. And this is in Canada, where they're exposed to all sorts of cold weather related crap: salt, sand, freezing cold starts for 4 months of the year, etc.
You do realize you need to ac
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Obviously you're not buying Fords then. 2 of mine were Fords and they were terrible. And after I bought a Hyundai a friend of mine had a 2001 Focus which seemed like an all right car. Then he drove it over to my place one day and couldn't get it started. Turned out it was this problem:
http://www.fordproblems.com/trends/key-stuck-ignition/
And funny you mention Canada... he had it towed to the dealer and since we're in Canada apparently Ford USA was covering those replacements under warranty, but Ford Cana
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Yup. My first Japanese car (a Subaru) lasted fourteen years. That's longer than both american cars I'd owned previously, put together, twice over, and then some. And it never broke down. The only maintenance I did were the scheduled services recommended in the manual, and replacement of consumables like tires and brake pads. The same can definitely not be said of the Ford or Chrysler. For that matter, I could have gotten a few more years out of the Subaru. But it was due for a new set of brakes plus a timing belt & water pump. The cost of that was more than the value of the car. And I'm more of a city than outdoors person these days, so the mileage penalty of all-wheel drive doesn't make sense anymore.
My rule now is that to even be worth consideration, the VIN must start with the letter "J". Anything else is a non-starter.
Yeah, it would be impossible for a Subaru to have a problem, like "Subaru is recalling 48,500 Legacy and Outback models for total steering failure" [caranddriver.com]. So maybe your anecdotal experience is not the same as data! Funny that you would claim your Subaru is more reliable that Ford, as the data from this dependability study [usatoday.com] says that Ford beats Subaru in dependability. Neither are stellar, but the data certainly doesn't back up your experience.
Wow the car knowledge here is bad (Score:5, Informative)
"Most internal combustion engine cars are sunk in water when the exhaust becomes flooded, which is why serious off-roaders have big exhaust scoops leading to the roof"
No. Most internal combustion engines are destroyed via hydrolock when (significant) water enters the intake of the engine. Because it can't be compressed, the engine basically explodes internally (pistons, valves, etc, etc). If water enters the exhaust and the engine is running, this is usually not a big deal because the air pressure from the engine will push it back out. Also, the exhaust valves don't suck in air so it will take some serious water pressure to get past those.
Typically, to combat this, the intake will have a snorkel attached to it and that will be as high as possible, thus preventing water entry into the intake. The exhaust may be raised as well (but that is not absolutely necessary) and this is a serious consideration if the engine is to be turned off while submerged (as then water will enter the combustion chamber through the exhaust valves, hydrolocking when you try to start it again).
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If water enters the exhaust and the engine is running, this is usually not a big deal because the air pressure from the engine will push it back out. Also, the exhaust valves don't suck in air so it will take some serious water pressure to get past those.
One only has to look at the wet exhaust systems used in boats for an example of what happens when water enters the exhaust. Hell, they even introduce water in them deliberately.
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Right - I think they got the purpose of the "roof" Snorkel wrong. But these guys are Bloggers and not Journalists.
Years ago I remember hearing a warning from a car manufacturer who stated that customers shouldn't drive through deep water because an Electrical engine component was on the bottom of the car. When this component was submerged it would burn out and shut down the engine - and it wasn't an easy replacement (meaning both the part and labor was expensive).
Most modern vehicles float. The Beetle ha
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And Jeeps actually have terrible door seals
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On older cars, the distributor cap would get damaged by submersion.
Damaged? Yes, car knowledge here is definitely not great.
You get water in the points, which are inside the distributor, and that will definitely shut you down until they dry out.
A little bit of water dispersal solvent, formula 40, sold under the brand name WD-40, usually helps get you running again.
(And BTW, WD-40 is a solvent, not a lubricant. Spraying it on things like squeaky door hinges is an example of Doing It Wrong.)
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I know someone who did exactly this because water got into the distributor cap and when he went to start the engine, residual fumes from the WD-40 detonated blowing the distributor cap off.
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Actually it is lubricating, I don't think it has a high shear strength and it's volatiles to non-volatile ratio isn't high so it only leaves a very thin layer of low viscosity lubricant after it dries; this can be an advantage.
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My first car was a 1981 Chevy Malibu with a small block Chevy V8. The distributor was at the top rear of the engine, behind the air intake. I could hit a > foot deep puddle at 50mph, and it wouldn't bat an eye. Sure, it slowed down a lot due to the water pressure against the front tires, but I never once had it cause a miss on even a single cylinder.
The front wheel drives that were becoming popular at the time, though, all had the ignition systems on the front of the engine, behind the grill and radia
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I always had problems because if water got onto the hot exhaust manifold and piping, the steam would get into the distributor, condense, and short it out.
Re:Wow the car knowledge here is bad (Score:5, Informative)
Which is to say, it would still float? Lithium has a density similar to wood (pine).
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okay - you got me :-P
I was of course playing to the notion that Tesla's are said to be very very heavy.
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" Also, the exhaust valves don't suck in air so it will take some serious water pressure to get past those."
Mostly true.
Improperly tuned pipes will suck in air, and thus water, during the scavenging cycle.
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Exhaust valves are usually very hot and any water touching them will probably warp them to the point that the engine will stop running due to lack of compression. I once had a motorcycle which got warped valves because the exhaust pipes came off while driving and the cold air entering the short distance between where the pipe attached to the hear and the valve warped it.
It's not a fun thing to repair.
I/C engines run on heat. any excess cooling causes them to run badly, if at all.
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Typically, to combat this, the intake will have a snorkel attached to it and that will be as high as possible, thus preventing water entry into the intake
I thought those snorkels were just to look tough driving around the city on sunny days. That's where I typically see them in use.
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Incoming... (Score:2)
lawsuits..
As soon as people completely wreck their Tesla's or injure themselves doing this..
Actually... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think this is incorrect:
Most internal combustion engine cars are sunk in water when the exhaust becomes flooded, which is why serious off-roaders have big exhaust scoops leading to the roof.
I think the snorkels are intakes, not exhaust - you don't want to suck water into your intake manifold.
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I know the snorkel kit for M151A2 [wikipedia.org] army jeep attached to the intake, the engine had a sealed ignition system, and there were floor drains which had to be open while fording so the truck would sink to the bottom and not float away. I'm not sure the snorkelling kit was ever used as intended, driving a vehicle while up to your shoulders in water is a tough sell to people who have loaded rifles and hand grenades.
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Today Teddy Kennedy would drive a Tesla (Score:3)
One of the great parody ads: http://www.funnyfakeads.com/pi... [funnyfakeads.com]
And the background for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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sorta funny -- but one of the few times Lampoon ever was the loser in a lawsuit forcing them to pull something from circulation
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They laughed all the way to the bank! I'm old enough to remember this (and was living in Mass at the time). This issue became an instant classic, and they got -tons- of press coverage.
Jay Leno's take (Score:5, Interesting)
Jay Leno had some interesting things to say [profitconfidential.com] about Tesla.
I've noticed the same thing (as Jay): people are falling over themselves to try to bring Tesla down, and I haven't the first idea why.
GM stock price slumped a whopping 1.3% [thestreet.com] on news of its ignition recall that was actually killing people.
Apple hires some engineers with car experience, everyone guesses that they'll be making electric cars, and "OMG, this could be the end of Tesla!" (The stock drops 10% in a day).
Analyst price targets for Tesla are all over the map [marketbeat.com], going from $150 to $385.
Jay mentions that "we like noble failures more than we reward success". I think that's true, but it's also baffling.
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GM stock price slumped a whopping 1.3% [thestreet.com] on news of its ignition recall that was actually killing people.
Apple hires some engineers with car experience, everyone guesses that they'll be making electric cars, and "OMG, this could be the end of Tesla!" (The stock drops 10% in a day).
Analyst price targets for Tesla are all over the map [marketbeat.com], going from $150 to $385.
Removing the opinions of talk show hosts/car collectors for a moment, perhaps what these statements truly highlight is an utter inability to predict a damn thing when it comes to the incredibly unstable stock market.
People equate it to gambling for valid reasons.
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and I haven't the first idea why.
I do.
Back when electric cars were DC traction motors jerry-rigged into compact cars with a trunk full of lead acid batteries, I got into several conversations with some greenies about what it would take to get the public into them. With some level of extraordinary prescience, I would say, "When electric cars have the comfort, performance and price of IC engine cars, we will buy them. Nobody wants to drive around in a glorified golf cart with open sides and 30 miles range."
The inevitable response was that
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Man, I don't know who you were talking to, but I never heard any electric car enthusiast say something like that.
Ever.
Sounds like you really talked to some losers. Most of the electric car/motorcycle converters I've talked to wanted to do it so they wouldn't have to buy gasoline, or wanted to do something different, or liked the idea of how smooth driving an electric is.
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Analyst prediction of the future in the market is always just wild ass guessing. They can provide some data to help people compare companies in terms of historic and current data, but their projections into the future are like horoscopes.
I'll say that the price deltas make a lot of sense, actually. The perception of GM market value is based mostly on their concrete standing in the market.
For Tesla, the market value of the company is far more speculative about the future. So credible stories about another
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I respect the hell out of the guy and what he's working towards.. but can we get rid of the "Tesla is so awesome" article quota? A lot of what is reported here about Tesla is about as innovative as Apple's rounded corner.
I can't find it now but there's an annual get together at a lake in Ohio that celebrates cars that can also travel in the water.
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Yeah, I don't know what it is with the Tesla hating. But that said, *this* particular bit of hype does deserve to be condemned.
(1) The driver in the video is a moron. You never drive your car into a situation you aren't sure you can drive it out of -- particularly one involving water. People get stranded that way (and often killed, if water is involved).
(2) Because you saw some guy do it doesn't mean your car will do it. If it's not part of the design specifications of the car, the car can't be relied u
Like a duck? (Score:2)
So the Tesla floats like a duck?
It must be made of wood.
Like a witch.
And what do we do with witches?
Needs propellers (Score:2)
Spinning the wheels with road tires on isn't going to do much
Most amphibious vehicles have propllers or water jets
Remember the Amphicar, the VW schvimwagen and the DUKW
Synopsis wrong (Score:4, Informative)
Musk didn't say (less even vouch) for the availability of this "feature". It's not a feature. It's a capability inherent to any car with closed cabin. All cars will float for a brief period of time (which is what Musk said: it will float for a brief period of time).
The batteries and electrical system is isolated enough to sustain sub-bar pressures and will hapilly drive along as the engine is not dependant on any air intake system not being flooded.
Technically, all EVs should be able to do this for a period. DONT drive across the lake.
Ranged-extended vehicles (Gen 1 & 2 Volt, BMW i3, Fisker Karma) dont have this luxury. While the electrics will continue working, any flooding of the ICE will require major repairs.
Disclaimer: I own a Gen2 Volt.
But does it float as well as a Beetle? (Score:2)
The other unintentional amphibious car. [youtube.com]
The newer Beetle is nothing compared to it's ancestor.
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Better ad here [blogspot.com].
Like to see a Tesla powertrain on an actual boat (Score:2)
I'm guessing it wouldn't go fast or far, but it might actually be useful enough for inland lake recreational purposes. Especially on a 30' cruiser which probably already has a pair of big block gasoline engines and a 5kw generator. The batteries vs. the engines would be a wash, and the gen set could provide some charging or limp-back drive power.
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Well 240 hp on a 21 foot boat makes for pretty fun sport boating already...
In general, engines on boats short of yacht class are relatively ancient by automotive standards (e.g. carburetor was the norm until very recently, and engine diagnostics are much less sophisticated for boats)
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I do a lot of boating on a large inland lake, and from what I've seen the Sea Ray Sundancers of ~30 ft (Sundancer 280s to 320s) seldom run at anywhere near full throttle. I'd guess something like 10-12 mph is pretty common, with about 30-something MPH being wide open on plane.
But on those boats, 30-something is really wide open engine-wise -- usually a pair of V8s (350 or better) running within 1000 rpm of the red line. As you say, the engines on these boats are ancient by auto standards -- Mercury still(
Exhaust scoops? (Score:2)
Float? Not quite. (Score:5, Insightful)
I am sorry, but that car wasn't floating. The wheels and tires on a Tesla are going to have no forward thrust, because the entire wheel will be submerged, meaning the top of the wheel is thrusting backwards just as well as the bottom is thrusting forward.
The low profile tires on the Tesla are going to have minimal thrust anyway, because the tread is not even vaguely paddle like. For reference look at this video [youtube.com] of the bigfoot monster truck floating across a lake. Even that truck with duallies on it (total of 8 monster truck wheels), which did float high enough for the big mudders to act like paddles, didn't make as quick forward progress as an old man in a canoe, and was extremely slow to respond to steering input.
The tesla in the video not only has enough power to push a big bow wave, it has enough steering traction to slalom through the other cars on the road. The weight of that car was obviously enough to keep the tires on the pavement at that water depth. I am not denying that the Tesla could float, nor am I denying that it may be water tight enough to float well, but it will be pretty much powerless and uncontrolled while floating.
Mr. Musk is very proud of his car, but on this video I call BS. That is not floating.
Re:Float? Not quite. (Score:5, Insightful)
Except they're not open wheel cars, they have fenders and wheel well liners.
Re:Float? Not quite. (Score:5, Informative)
hmm, that is a point. If the wheel stays up in the fender it may act as a very inefficient impeller, taking in water at the rear of the fender opening, the fender liner acting as the casing of a very poorly coupled pump.
It would work better if it was a fully skirted fender, which they aren't, so most of the water being pumped is going to just blast out sideways, mostly out, because the inside of the wheel well is lower that the outside.
Just guessing, without modeling, I think the thrust would be mostly down, with some backwards.
I don't know my Tesla models that well, but if it is AWD any thruster effect from the front wheels would be less, because of the larger wheel well clearances for turning, and would disappear almost entirely when the wheels were turned left or right at all.
Teslas probably have an advantage in this regard, because they have a pretty taught suspension, and probably won't droop as much as the cars us mere mortals drive, which at full droop can be almost entirely out of the wheel well, below the body of the car.
You are correct, I had not considered the ducting action of the fenders. However I stand by my final judgement that the car in the video is not floating.
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Dude you want something like This [youtu.be], if you can't pull a water-skier what good is it?
I'm not the biggest tesla fan (Score:2)
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You're assuming that Tesla's *only* business model is to sell cars. Well, Elon Musk is a smarter businessman than you are.
Tesla's profits come from their sale of carbon credits and other "green" state and federal regs to other car companies who continue to pump out gas-guzzling SUVs.
http://www.marketplace.org/201... [marketplace.org]
Also for a while, Tesla was licensing their patents to other manufacturers, but I think that's over now as they opened up the patents.
Music! (Score:2)
http://selectric.org/nurc/introfinal.wmv
So does this mean.... (Score:2)
Tesla will be flooded with orders now for the Model S?
Yes, folks, Hard to believe I'm here all week... No cover, one drink minimum.. And NO, I'm not quitting my day job..
If someone steals a Tesla... (Score:5, Funny)
...do we then call it an Edison?
No air, no exhaust, not problem! (Score:2)
Now, all we need is for Lotus to come out with an all white version of the car.
Foils, periscope, ejection seat and torpedo optional.
Big deal... (Score:2)
Big deal! Volkswagen Beetles did that years ago. Their slogan was something like "Volkswagen Beetles, definitely float. Just not indefinitely." or something like that.
HIgh intake not exhaust (Score:3)
Off roaders use high intakes mainly to reduce the amount of dust sucked in which will eventually clog the air filter. Obviously it would help going through water. Usually water is flowing and as soon as the car reaches a depth where is will float you are going to go "down the creek without a paddle."
I don't think "floats" means... (Score:2)
...what you think it means, Slashdot. At no point was this car floating. They aren't exactly known for being lightweight, it just drove through the water.
Saves lives? (Score:2)
So what Elon Musk is saying is that if Democratic senator Ted Kennedy had driven a Tesla Model S, Mary Jo Kopechne would have lived?
Stolen car? (Score:2)
How comes a person who can afford a 'model s' can't afford a new mobile phone? Any half decent phone on the market for the last 4 years can record at 730p or 1080p.
Re:Floats unlike Tesla (Score:5, Insightful)
What are you talking about? If you're talking about the suspension issue, the NHTSA investigated and found no problem with Tesla suspensions (and furthermore that 93% of the complaints were fraudulent).
Re:Floats unlike Tesla (Score:5, Funny)
Wake up sheeple!
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WHoooooosh.
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Sorry, didn't read your third subclause and second sentence.
Re:Floats unlike Tesla (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Floats unlike Tesla (Score:4, Funny)
In other news, Mr. Musk announced a new line of sneakers that allows wearer to walk on water...
Re:Floats unlike Tesla (Score:5, Insightful)
Thank you for your opinion Anonymous Coward. But I'll go with what the NHTSA, and NCAP say about it instead. Not that I don't value your opinion, just that it's utterly wrong and worthless.
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Or: "I'd like to agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong."
Re:Batteries (Score:5, Informative)
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And you can't extinguish a Lithium fire. You just have to wait until it burns out on its own.
What utter nonsense. Lithium is not burning via some Li + Li --> Li_2 reaction in the absence of other elements. Remove the source of molecules (e.g. water) that lithium's combining with and the fire stops.
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Well, clearly not the first, but whatever.
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What utter nonsense. Lithium is not burning via some Li + Li --> Li_2 reaction in the absence of other elements.
That is true, but in the case of Lithium batteries the required oxidizer is an essential component of the battery itself. No outside chemical input is required for the battery to burn or explode; the military has investigated the use of lithium batteries as improvised grenades.
The problem with water ingress would not necessarily be that it serves as a concentrated oxidizer, but rather that it may short out the batteries, causing sufficient local heating to trigger a self-sustaining chain reaction within the
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Yes, you can. The stuff is called "Lith-X", and we were trained in its use. Lith-X was applied by the bucket load. For very small fires, like foils, something that resembled a salt shaker was used.
Of only minor interest here: we were working with Lithium-6...
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They make fire extinguishers for metallic/chemical fires. Just because you can't put it out with water doesn't mean it's somehow invincible.
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Also, I rather suspect you meant "chlorine trifluoride", not F2Cl2. It's also much scarier than just burning sand; it burns glass and Teflon too.
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They would only float in TEST mode.
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LOL.. When new and the door seals actually worked and the heater channels where not rusted out, yea they could float... My old 65' beetle would have sunk like a scuttled German U-Boat on the high seas when I owned it. A cross wind was more than just an adventure in uncommanded lane changes, it also blew stuff around inside the car because the "door seals" didn't seal anything... Imagine driving this across Indiana in -10 weather.... Can you say COLD, with roasted ankles?
Re: (Score:2)
My VW mini-motorhome had a piece of PVC Drain Pipe to replace the rusted out heat duct, worked like a champ! You could also get electric boaster-heaters so the windshield would defrost before you got to work in the morning.