Remember When You Could Call the Time? 171
An article on The Atlantic this week takes a stroll down the memory lane. It talks about phone services that people could call for knowing the time. The service, according to the article, was quite popular in 1980s. But many of them don't exist now. For instance, Verizon discontinued the line -- as well as its telephone weather service -- in 2011. But what's fascinating is that some of these services still exist, and are getting more traction than many of us would've imagined. From the article:"We get 3 million calls per year!" said Demetrios Matsakis, the chief scientist for time services at the Naval Observatory. "And there's an interesting sociology to it. They don't call as much on the weekend, and the absolute minimum time they call is Christmas. On big holidays, people don't care about the time. But we get a big flood of calls when we switch to Daylight [saving] time and back." As it turns out, people have been telephoning the time for generations. In the beginning, a telephone-based time service must have seemed like a natural extension of telegraph-based timekeeping -- but it would have been radical in its own way, too, because it represented a key shift to an on-demand service. In the 19th century, big railroad companies had used the telegraph to transmit the time to major railway stations. By the early 20th century, people could simply pick up the telephone and ask a human operator for the time.
dialing. (Score:3, Insightful)
Dialing the time was popular long before the 80's, and in fact by the 80's I recall it being much less used, even if it still existed. I remember dialing the time as being more of a 1960's and 70's thing.
I suppose next you're going to tell me that people nowadays don't understand why it's called "dialing" a number. Or why it was faster to dial a number with lots of low digits than lots of high digits.
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I was always annoyed when I had programmed something to record, got home, and saw the flashing numbers.
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And who among us does not fondly remember scouring the instructions for how to get the VCR to flash "1:00" after the daylight savings time changeover?
I feel sorry that you didn't have a young child in your household who could figure out to change the time on the VCR without ever looking at the instructions. IIRC, the instructions were crap — if you find the English version among the half-dozen languages.
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And who among us does not fondly remember scouring the instructions for how to get the VCR to flash "1:00" after the daylight savings time changeover?
I feel sorry that you didn't have a young child in your household who could figure out to change the time on the VCR without ever looking at the instructions. IIRC, the instructions were crap — if you find the English version among the half-dozen languages.
the wonderful part of that particular user interface was that most of them only had increment buttons, not decrement, so if you overshot, you had to go around the clock again. because subtracting 1 from whatever number was on the display would be just too damn hard to program.
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Changing the time on the VCR, that was easy! It was the "flashing 1:00" that was hard.
I don't think I ever ran into that situation. My brother gave our parents a VCR for Christmas, which they had no interest in recording or renting videos. My father used the VCR as a remote control for the analog TV. After they got a new TV with remote control, the VCR ended up in my room where I recorded PBS TV series during my teen years.
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Dialing the time was popular long before the 80's, and in fact by the 80's I recall it being much less used, even if it still existed. I remember dialing the time as being more of a 1960's and 70's thing.
I suppose next you're going to tell me that people nowadays don't understand why it's called "dialing" a number. Or why it was faster to dial a number with lots of low digits than lots of high digits.
You probably got a TV with teletext sometime in the 1970's or 80's that told you the time. IIRC lower end TV:s did not ship with teletext well into the 1990's.
My community still has this... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Our local area has one too, run by a funeral home
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Re:My community still has this... (Score:4, Informative)
800-444-4444. It's MCI. It will read back the number in the first couple of seconds.
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I bet it never get Chinese callers since 4 is an unlucky # for death. ;)
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I bet it never get Chinese callers since 4 is an unlucky # for death. ;)
that would be a good number for the one run by the funeral parlor that the guy posted upthread, then.
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Are you sure this isn't the phone number for Coffee Talk?
Talk amongst yourselves.
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We still call the time all the time to get the time, it doesn't take much time and it's a simple way to set the time on all your devices that have a way to set the time to any particular time, some of them are even set to UTC time, because internet time is cool time.
What I want to know is...
What are some number annunciator phone numbers we can call? You know, you call it, it tells you the number you're calling from.
just pick up your phone and don't dial anybody. just ask the friendly NSA eavesdropper.
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I remember when it was 321-XXXX... Pick any one you want.
Commerce Bank? Been a couple decades...
Still around in the uk (Score:2, Informative)
Still around in the UK. Number is 123.
On the third stroke, the time, sponsored by Accurist, will be five - forty - exactly. Bip, bip, beep.
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I'm surprised it's three and not five like the old BBC World Service top 'o' the hour time sync signal. Do they still do that? I haven't listened to shortwave in years.
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NTP (Score:4, Interesting)
Do we really need it anymore now that we have NTP [ntp.org] running on most of our smartphones, computers, etc.?
I do miss the "time lady" though. Or "popcorn" - (767-2676, or 767-1111). "At the tone, the time will be, 9:38am. *BEEP*"
I was just thinking yesterday about an automated telephone game system I used to call when I was growing up in the 80's. 573-3400. I forget what it was called, but there were 3 games you could play all by 'choose your own adventure' touch-tone style choices. One was a cowboy type game, one was a vampire, and I forget what the third one was. It was all free to play for us latch-key kids. Heh. Now get off my lawn!
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Do we really need it anymore now that we have NTP [ntp.org] running on most of our smartphones, computers, etc.?
I've got something running on my computer (Windows 7) but I have no idea what "on a regular basis" means when it comes to updating. Does it check once an hour? Once a day? Once a week? No idea. I forced an update just now and it was 45 seconds out.
I think I'll go and install NTP... if I can find a decent build for Windows.
When I were a lad, you could set your watch to the clock that they broadcast on BBC One before the news started. Can't do that now, thanks to digital TV and statistical multiplexing.
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and of course, the individual channels clearly run on variously different clocks than comcast does, as trying to DVR programs on different networks proves. which is presumably why they provide the option of lengthening the start and end times of the recording.
why?
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The channel lag has to do with light speed delays in satellite broadcasts of certain channels. Not all channels are broadcast from the same part of the planet, so there is a delay on some channels.
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There's more to it than that. Satellite delays would account for about 0.3s, but delays are also introduced by encoding (since encoders need to "read ahead" to encode certain types of frames) and decoding (same reason). Other stuff at the TV station introduces delays - on the BBC you'll see a one-frame stutter whenever a live digital video effect is about to occur (shrinking the credits to show a promo, for example).
Yet more delays are introduced for all kinds of technical reasons. One factor is that here i
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and of course, the individual channels clearly run on variously different clocks than comcast does, as trying to DVR programs on different networks proves.
More likely they run on the same clock, but screw around with their scheduling a little bit to try to make you miss the beginning of a rival show on another network.
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NTP is internet based, read: requires an internet connection to retrieve the time.
Yet when I boot my Android phone after its battery runs empty, with Wi-Fi and mobile data disabled, it still retrieves the time just fine. Unlike say, a PC or Raspberry Pi when it relies solely on NTP for timekeeping.
Read: yes, your phone uses 'the network' to retrieve the time (the mobile network, that is). No, not NTP or mobile data services. My PC relies on a CR2032-backed hardware clock (manually adjusted once or twic
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It retrieves the time just fine because it has a realtime clock chip and still run with little battery to keep the time when it is off and between network time synchronization. A PC has also a RTC and a battery to keep the time. On another hand, the design point for the Raspberry Pi was to reduce the bill of material as much as possible, so, there is no RTC, you can add one if you wish. Hence, you just have to configure properly your OS on the Raspberry Pi to retrieve the network time at boot time. Of cours
GSM requires microsecond timing (Score:3)
The way GSM works is that each phone takes turns using the radio frequency. Your timeslot is half a millisecond long. Therefore the phone's timing has to be synchronized with the tower with microsecond accuracy.
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NTP is internet based, read: requires an internet connection to retrieve the time.
Yet when I boot my Android phone after its battery runs empty, with Wi-Fi and mobile data disabled, it still retrieves the time just fine. Unlike say, a PC or Raspberry Pi when it relies solely on NTP for timekeeping.
Read: yes, your phone uses 'the network' to retrieve the time (the mobile network, that is). No, not NTP or mobile data services. My PC relies on a CR2032-backed hardware clock (manually adjusted once or twice a year), with the OS handling daylight saving changes. No network access needed to keep the correct time.
in case young folks don't know, we used to have phones which were wired to a central phone switching system; and if you had one of those that displayed the time or stamped it on voicemail or somesuch, when you disconnected it and reconnected, it wouldn't know the time until somebody called.
And we were grateful! we loved it!
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My watch uses this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
It works pretty good too, though it isn't as accurate as NTP.
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Do we really need it anymore now that we have NTP [ntp.org] running on most of our smartphones, computers, etc.?
The question is - do the people who are calling the time number actually know that the time on their phone is set automatically? And probably not just for cell phones... our last land line phone, back when we still had a land line, would synchronize its time whenever an incoming or outgoing call occurred.
I have this mental image of some elderly woman dialing the time number and then dutifully setting the time on her fifteen-year-old Nokia cell phone.
Re: NTP (Score:4, Interesting)
GSM network time can be wrong, though. A month or two ago O2 Germany had a problem with the network time so many phones all around Germany were set to 10 minutes earlier. Missed my train that way. Was very surprised comparing the phone clock with the railway station clock.
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GSM network time can be wrong, though. A month or two ago O2 Germany had a problem with the network time so many phones all around Germany were set to 10 minutes earlier. Missed my train that way. Was very surprised comparing the phone clock with the railway station clock.
I had a few VCRs that could find time signals impressed on some of the TV station signals (via cable, when it was still analog); i think most US PBS stations IIRC, and also what time zone, so would update DST for you automatically.
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Smart phones do not use NTP, although perhaps they should: It's computationally almost free, and can be very data-efficient, and works great even in free-running mode.
Cellular network time isn't always accurate. I can put a few devices together from different carriers, and they're within a minute or two. But right now, in fact, I have two Verizon devices in front of me: One is 16 seconds fast, and the other is 1 second slow, compared to NIST -- even though they have the same exact time source.
Maybe a mi
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Smart phones do not use NTP, although perhaps they should: It's computationally almost free, and can be very data-efficient, and works great even in free-running mode.
Cellular network time isn't always accurate. I can put a few devices together from different carriers, and they're within a minute or two. But right now, in fact, I have two Verizon devices in front of me: One is 16 seconds fast, and the other is 1 second slow, compared to NIST -- even though they have the same exact time source.
Maybe a minute or two is good enough, but it's not anything approaching high-accuracy. If I cared about time enough to have a high-quality wristwatch, I would not set it from the time displayed on my phone.
Meanwhile, IIRC, CID time did not include seconds in the timestamp. So it was only accurate within a minute, too.
I have this mental image of the trains actually running on time, but nobody knows what time it actually is so they all miss them anyway.
right! that's what i was talking about upthread a bit, how is it possible for these hyper precise items to all be so reliably out of synch? wtf?
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I don't know WTF, either.
Every time I look at running NTP on Android (because I'm a geek like that, and it annoys me that clock skew is a solved problem everywhere else), I find that it's never been implemented by anyone because "herrp, it's taken care of automatically! who cares?"
Kids, these days...
Sometime I'll have to hack up ntp to run on Android as a proof of concept and get the ball rolling myself, I guess.
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My landline doesn't have the time. Obviously, almost everything else does (cellphone, tv/DVR, answering machine, just to list the stuff in view of my landline), but even in prehistoric times when there were fewer clocks, I seldom called it to get the time. It also told the temperature (which of course I can also get off my cellphone :-P ).
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There are MANY NTP servers who's primary clock source is NIST ACTS [nist.gov] you know, using a analog modem. NTPd supports this directly and is quite reliable as a primary time source.
NTP isn't a primary time source, but a time distribution service.
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I guess in hindsight it was probably used for testing, but it was fun pranking people with it as a child.
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Do we really need it anymore now that we have NTP [ntp.org] running on most of our smartphones, computers, etc.?
Good question. I was using my laptop the other day (relatively fresh install of Windows 10 on it) and I got a call saying I was 10min late to a meeting .... the clock was at the wrong time. We put a lot of emphasis in having technology often without every taking the care to see if it's actually working or on, just like my phone didn't adjust for daylight savings time automagically but my girlfriend's did.
To err is human, to really screw things up requires a computer.
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There are a substantial number of people who do not own a cellphone or an internet connected computer, and/or may just not have access to one of those at some time and place (e.g. power outage) when they want accurate time. And I'm confident providing the service is a nominal cost that benefits these many millions of people.
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Assuming everything is set properly, you can still be wrong on the time. Timezones, Daylight Saving Time, etc. Anytime you screw with the clocks, you run the risk of having the time set wrong.
So it's nice to have a source of local time that's correct to confirm the time is correct.
That's
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That's why the calls spike around the time change - because people aren't entirely sure anymore.
I think it's because that's when they reset all of their unconnected clocks (oven, microwave, wristwatch). You might as well set them accurately twice a year.
You can still use WWV... (Score:1)
Re:You can still use WWV... (Score:5, Interesting)
And more. It's a time *and frequency* standard. After you completed your shortwave radio kit you'd tune WWV and "calibrate" your tuner & dial.
Still working (Score:2)
It had been a few years since I called our local one but I just checked and it's still up.
Back when I was a kid in the late 80's/early 90's that was the go-to source for making sure you had your clocks set correctly. Later on they added current temperature too. It was used enough that it wasn't uncommon to call it and get a busy signal and you'd have to try back again in a few minutes.
When I just called it gave the date, time, temperature, and a decently detailed daily weather forecast as well.
WWV (Score:2)
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WWVB is VLF, not HF, and you wouldn't get much by listening to it (since it is a binary protocol at one bit per second).
Maybe you just mean plain WWV?
We used to call it popcorn (Score:2)
We used to call it popcorn. In our area you could dial 767-any4digits and get the time.
http://articles.latimes.com/20... [latimes.com]
USNO not answering (Score:3)
WWV Audio by telephone (Score:2)
I still use it (Score:2)
There is guaranteed to be one "Time and Temp" service that still exists in each area code -- and in most likelihood, one in each tariff zone. They are great to check call completions across the US because you know that (a) they will always answer and (b) you won't be bothering some random person, even in the middle of the night.
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(b) you won't be bothering some random person, even in the middle of the night.
But that's half the fun...
Just be sure to block your remote Caller ID.
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I suspect this is the reason behind the higher usage during office hours, and lower usage during the holidays that everyone takes, like Xmas. These services are used a lot for Bluetooth handsfree device testing in my office too, as usually the developers don't want to bother someone else, and they don't want to listen to
Surely (Score:2)
There must be a modern equivalent (I can't even be bothered to Google it) where you can just "ring" Google or Siri or Cortana.
I'd be hard-pushed to imagine that isn't already out there, especially given Google Voice.
That function could easily do time-telling or weather forecast or data searches for you without anything more than a computer doing an "OK Google" at the other end and reading back the response like their smartphones do.
Re: Surely (Score:2)
Google used to do this, in fact, though with SMS. They killed the service several years ago.
There was also a free (and toll-free) service called Tell Me, which was voice-operated and worked well for lots of things.
Rotodial users? (Score:2)
Are these rotodial phone users or something?
Every cellphone I've ever had came with a time display, and furthermore the time is obtained from the phone service so its always accurate.
What would even be the point of phoning if the time is already displayed on the phone?
Is there even such a thing as modern phones that don't have a clock?
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There are still ~ 90 Million residential landlines around, down from about 220 million. Depending on the phone, they may not have a display. Additionally, about 10% - 12% of the population over 18 don't have a cell phone.
So... yeah... it's a thing.
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My landline doesn't have a clock. It's a moot point, given that I have several time displays within sight of it, but the phone itself doesn't have anything.
Superannuated (Score:5, Funny)
I'm so old I remember when there was a number you could call that would tell you the date, and it would give it to you in Julian and Gregorian.
Canada's is still going (Score:2, Interesting)
The Canadian National Research Council's "telephone talking clock" [nrc-cnrc.gc.ca] is still active,
English: 613-745-1576
French: 613-745-9426
They also run an NTP server, shortwave time broadcasts, web-based clock, modem-based "simple time service", and daily time broadcasts on CBC radio.
Call back (Score:2)
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It depended on the switch. The default settings on AT&T/Lucent 5ESS switches gave you a busy signal if you called your own terminal number. The default settings on the Northern DMS's was to provide two ring cycles on your line.
There were loads of test numbers out there. Some provided a busy, some provided ringback, some provided TAC access to the CO test line, and some provided an automated call to test translations. Those numbers still exist, but they change on a regular basis. It used to be that
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To check if a phone was working, there used to be a number you could call and hang-up. Then the phone would be called back.
and a voice would say "the caller is in the house!!!"
Won't you see the time on the screen first? (Score:2)
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What is the point to dial a number to find out the time when you can just look at the screen first and see the time? They need an app for that. "Hey Siri, what time is it?" "U.S. Naval Observatory Master Clock. At the tone, the Eastern daylight time - 14 hours, 20 minutes exactly."
my apartment building has a clock built in. I just pound on the wall and a voice from the wall says "It's 4 in the morning, dammit!"
I used to do this (Score:4, Insightful)
I worked for the company that used to provide this service (and a lot fo other 800, 866 and 900 numbers) for the NJ and NYC areas.
It was fascinating equipment. Ancient but robust. It was a constantly turning magnetic drum that had the recording on it about 6 inches tall with a little oil reservoir on top that had to be filled every few months.
It synced against the radio signal from the Navel Observatory, which was perfect but also perfectly useless. You see, there was a short delay induce by the phone lines, so if we let it set itself we'd get irate calls as people listened to it and the radio and they weren't synced. Yes, there are those people and out of the millions of population there are enough of them. So every time the time changed for daylight savings we'd set it, and then manually speed it up by a fraction of a second until it sounded right. Mind you it still wasn't perfect - the phone line induced delay varied by distance and number of trunks, but it was close enough.
Remarkable gear. Never lost time after we set it.
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I worked for the company that used to provide this service (and a lot fo other 800, 866 and 900 numbers) for the NJ and NYC areas.
It was fascinating equipment. Ancient but robust. It was a constantly turning magnetic drum that had the recording on it about 6 inches tall with a little oil reservoir on top that had to be filled every few months.
If you want something approaching steampunk, the UK had a speaking clock system using 1930s technology:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
The Australian system was installed in the 1950s and is more compact and easier to see working, but the basic mechanism is the same:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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It synced against the radio signal from the Navel Observatory, which was perfect but also perfectly useless.
Was it always questioning whether it was telling the right time?
teletext (Score:2)
As a family without the money to replace the TV, I think the service to call the time was used much longer in our household. In the early 80's people started getting TVs with teletext https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] and from our national broadcasting service, the time in the teletext status line were accurate enough to use for adjustment of any clock.
In Italy the service is still active... (Score:2)
My old wristwatch is however my preferred source for time information, followed by a few sundials I come across during my commuting...living in rural Italy has some benefits, isn't it ?!?
Time and Temperature. Time speaking. (Score:5, Funny)
Years ago, in Pittsburgh, the number for the Time (and Temperature) was 391-9500 and reached the local power company, Duquesne Light. It still is, but you need to add the 412 area code now. It is still my "go to" number for testing a phone line when I don't want to bother a friend.
I had a small business and we added a private unlisted line. The installer wasn't even out the door yet when we got our first wrong number call on it. Wrong numbers continued throughout the afternoon and evening. People wouldn't say anything, they would just hang up. Finally I managed to get someone to talk to me, and they told me what number they were calling. It was 391-9500. Our new number was 931-9500. It hit me. We were getting an incredible number of wrong numbers where people transposed the first two digits trying to call for the time.
After I understood what the issue was the line became a lot of fun. If you answered the phone with "Hi. What time is it?" people usually knew what time it was and would tell you. If you answered with "Time and Temperature. Time speaking" you could often strike up a long conversation. I often told the story of how I screwed up and put my lunch on the tape reels of the time announcing machine and now my boss was making me answer all of the calls and give the time until the machine was fixed.
The power company would start each call with a little promo message such as "Electricity is your biggest bargain. Electric time is ..". I enjoyed answering in my best announcer voice "We can raise your rates whenever we want and there is nothing that you can do about it. Electric time is ...". I fondly remember one caller saying to someone else after that message "Boy, they are getting rude".
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I would instead recommend these:
(909) 390-0003 Echo-back line (for testing latency)
(415) 437-4880 SF Public library, Dial-a-story
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Either that or look at the top of the Gulf Tower to find out the weather.
But my personal favorite is Dial-A-Song, of course. 718-387-6962.
Not quite the same now that it is on the internet, but still fun. http://www.dialasong.com/ [dialasong.com]
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Apparently the number changed 844-387-6962
Coca-Cola (Score:4, Interesting)
In my childhood in Miami, 1950's, you called "the Coca-Cola Lady"...she delivered a short pitch for Coke, then gave the time.
I'm that old (Score:3)
I remember alarm service too (Score:2)
Peer-to-peer Time service (Score:3)
What time is it, Eccles? (Score:2)
and the recording [youtube.com]
if you want to know what the Goon Show was [wikipedia.org]
Time Zones in sync (Score:2)
Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, on their album Dazzle Ships, had this wonderful mashup [youtu.be]. They called "time" from many time zones and synced them together. Give it a listen - it's short and sweet, and leaves you wanting more.
Popcorn (Score:2)
We would dial the letters "popcorn" in So. California on the General Telephone network to get the time recording.
No HHGG love? (Score:2)
Nobody else remembers Ford Prefect doing this to somebody in one of the HHGG books?
The comments here make me happy! (Score:2)
Thrilled to see so many people remember this, plus so many that know about WWV and shortwave. Fantastic group here!
You can still call NiST (Score:2)
Remember WWV? (Score:3)
Re:Still call the 440Hz "A" note? (Score:5, Informative)
Can you still call for a proper "A" note in Austria?
Apparently yes: +43 1 21110 1507
A service by the Federal Office for Calibration and Measurement, they also offer time and a 1000 Hz tone. According to their official journal from 2010, page 5, "Verbreitung von Normalsignalen"
http://www.metrologie.at/index... [metrologie.at]
Well, at least you get an a' note at 440 Hz. However, Austrian (and German) orchestras use 443 Hz for a', and military and brass music uses 461 Hz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Leave it to the Germans to make a standard out of stuff nobody really gives a shit about...
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Musicians do, and those listening to music also do even if they are not aware of it. If you read the wiki article you will also see that it's more complex than Germans making a useless standard.
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And 440Hz was not good enough, it had to be 443Hz?
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Still works indeed. Cost me four cents or so in Google Voice credits to call it, probably, but it worked.
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"military and brass music uses 461 Hz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] "
The number 461 does not occur anywhere on that wikipedia page and it's the first time I hear it. I used to play the trumpet. That was before you had digital tuners but I don't recall that there was any problem to get it in tune with a standard piano. The closest statement is:
""high pitch" was used for the older tuning of A = 452.4 Hz at 60 ÂF. Although ... low pitch, provincial [english] orchestras continued using the high pitch
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In kindergarten in the USA, early 70s, we were told to just dial "0" and speak to the operator for an emergency. The roll-out of 911 in our community began shortly after that.
Re: I can still yell at clouds (Score:2)
"Become a square clood"
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Oblig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Time and Temp for over 40 years. I still call it when I get a new phone activated and have to make a test call.