DoNotPay Bot Has Beaten 160,000 Traffic Tickets -- and Counting (venturebeat.com) 180
Khari Johnson, writing for VentureBeat:A bot made to challenge traffic tickets has been used more than 9,000 times by New Yorkers, according to DoNotPay maker Joshua Browder. The bot was made available to New Yorkers in March. In recent years and decades, residents of The Big Apple have seen a persistent increase in traffic fines. A record $1.9 billion in traffic fines was issued by the City of New York in 2015. Since the first version of the bot was released in London last fall, 160,000 of 250,000 tickets have been successfully challenged with DoNotPay, Browder said. "I think the people getting parking tickets are the most vulnerable in society," said Browder. "These people aren't looking to break the law. I think they're being exploited as a revenue source by the local government." Browder, who's 19, hopes to extend DoNotPay to Seattle this fall.
Seriously? (Score:5, Insightful)
What's higher than first-world problems?
Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Insightful)
He's 19. Guys that age aren't exactly known for their sense of perspective. Heck, many of them are only marginally human.
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Then you misread the Brexit. You should read this and the other shocking conservative counter-movements as left-leaning political organizations needing to pay more attention to the consequences of their policies. A lot of people are feeling left out and you are completely ignoring their complaints while undermining their basic humanity further with your rhetoric. Your continued head-in-the sand approach that there can be no problem for anyone through the liberal approach will only continue to give conservative politicians the opportunity to do terrible things with the dissatisfaction the center is feeling.
tell me again what part of "the left" views nationalism as the solution to anything, and sees the world in terms of "workers in my country" vs "workers in other countries", please.
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If the recent Brexit referendum shows us anything, it's that the older generations, particularly the Baby Boomers who already feathered their nests, are by far the more irresponsible section of society.
No, if the referendum has taught us anything, it is the young generation who were the more irresponsible ones. More of them could have come out to vote. More of them could have tried to talk to Boomers and other leavers (I'm sure the young don't have any reciprocating snobbish disdain for, right?) and reason with them instead of, say, calling them racists, xenophobic, uneducated fools as many I see have done.
I'm not British - but, even just looking at the discussions here, it seems pretty obvious that one significant problem related to the whole Brexit debate is that many of the supporters on either side of the issue absolutely refuse to consider that people on the other side of the debate might have legitimate points of view and/or concerns regarding certain aspects of remaining in (or leaving) the EU.
Le Brexit Fourth World Problems (Score:2)
It's worth noting that this service is for the United Kingdom. Robot lawyers or systems that give you legal advise based on questions the application asks you are illegal or fall on very shaky grounds.
What do HIV disclosures have to do w/ Parking Tix (Score:1)
Oddly enough, if you go to the DoNotPay site and look at the reg button you will see a prove HIV disclosure??? WTF does that have to do w/ paying parking tickets? When you click the link it takes you to another form on the same site discussing the difficulties of HIV disclosures http://goo.gl/nJCjAL. Granted this might be a side project, but talk about mixed messaging.
I always get complimented on my parking (Score:5, Funny)
I get a note saying "parking fine".
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I get compliments about my ass from everyone too. "What an ass!" they say all the time. Starbucks, on the bus, in movie theaters, you name it. And what a fine donkey it is indeed!
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:saving the world (Score:4, Insightful)
Right, using technology to get the upper hand in civil matters as bad bad bad. Unless the government is doing to make money off of citizens, in that case, it
ay-oh-kay!
BACK IN LINE CITIZEN! You will pay whatever fine we choose to levy against you.
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So your saying automating my response to automated traffic tickets is a bad thing? I'm instead supposed to expend my resources to pay a lawyer and/or suspend my own resource generation method to attend traffic court in my own defense of said automatically generated traffic fines?
This guy found a useful and novel use of technology for citizens to defend themselves in direct response to another useful and novel use of a technology by government to extract revenue from its citizens.
It is driving commerce by th
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Actually - this could benefit everybody. There is presumably a non-zero cost in sending out these automated tickets. A high margin of error would cost money to correct (or at least improve) and if everybody just pays there is no incentive to do so.
However if there is a mean to cheaply and easily challenge bad tickets, then the cost of sending them is now lost without the guaranteed return. Maximizing revenue now starts to depend on improving the margin of error such that almost no tickets get overturned so
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What is the deal with this dichotomy between "the evil government" and you or me? Do you have a better method for wrangling the cats of many competing viewpoints in an ordered society? And yes, using technology to gain the upper hand in civil matters can be a bad thing. If you have traffic fines to deter people from driving in a way that is inconvenient or dangerous for others, and then a few technologically savvy people figure out how to avoid those fines, all you are going to create is a group of people who are undeterred by traffic fines and drive like maniacs. Ideally there would be a process for appealing unjustified citations (which there is), but the solution is not just to circumvent the whole system unless you think the laws are fine for everyone except you.
but but but... sometimes my side loses in an election, and this is clearly tyranny and Shall Not Stand.
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Sorry to ruin your tirade but not all parking tickets are because somebody broke a traffic law. I've gotten one in my life. I parked in the spot where a cop normally parked when he was going to visit the woman he was having an affair with. I parked my legal vehicle on a street which street parking was permitted. My crime was I made him park across the street. It was in front of my own house for christ sake. Still had to go fight it all because I dared to slightly inconvenience a cop.
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Sorry to ruin your tirade but not all parking tickets are because somebody broke a traffic law. I've gotten one in my life. I parked in the spot where a cop normally parked when he was going to visit the woman he was having an affair with. I parked my legal vehicle on a street which street parking was permitted. My crime was I made him park across the street. It was in front of my own house for christ sake. Still had to go fight it all because I dared to slightly inconvenience a cop.
a few decades back i got a notice of unpaid parking ticket in the mail with the extra $$$ charge. not only did I not remember getting one, but at that point in my life i didn't drive much at all, biked everywhere so i was extra skeptical rather than assuming i had missed seeing it.
tried to contest it, they demanded I provide them the details of the ticket which i was claiming i had never received.
I went to city hall to get a copy of the missing ticket. clerk pointed to a huge literal pile of tickets in the
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The woman across the road was his mother.
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Nah, the cop was parking in front of his house to go see the woman he had an affair with... obviously the cop was fucking his wife.
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The woman across the road was his mother.
the cop was his mother.
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NYC meter maids would never [nytimes.com], ever [nytimes.com], EVER [abc7ny.com] write bogus tickets. The only reason the NYPD started using the handheld ticket machine was to try to cut down on the number of tickets that were thrown out because they were questionable or obviously bogus. It was an attempt to keep them honest (so the city would get more money). When I moved to NYC my truck was ticketed so often for being a "commercial" vehicle (despite not meeting any of the requirements) that I ended up selling it because fighting every single
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What a disgusting city. Great reasons to never want to ever visit nor do business with or in that multi-storey rancid, corrupt dumpster.
percentage-wise, it's probably better than most smaller places. it's just the totality that gets a person down.
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What is the deal with every startup or tech company or whatever trying to take the moral high ground on whatever they happen to have found some marketable niche for? "...The most vulnerable people in society"? Give me a fucking break.
Back at you. It is as they say. Our car was towed in San Francisco a couple of years ago, and it was $500 to get it out. Did you get that? $500. Imagine someone working for $18/hour (sarcasm obvious), and needing that car to get to work. Hell, the car might not be WORTH more than $500. There was a couple crying at the pound in that exact situation. That was one of the most depressing and infuriating moments of my life.
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What is the deal with every startup or tech company or whatever trying to take the moral high ground on whatever they happen to have found some marketable niche for? "...The most vulnerable people in society"? Give me a fucking break.
Back at you. It is as they say. Our car was towed in San Francisco a couple of years ago, and it was $500 to get it out. Did you get that? $500. Imagine someone working for $18/hour (sarcasm obvious), and needing that car to get to work. Hell, the car might not be WORTH more than $500. There was a couple crying at the pound in that exact situation. That was one of the most depressing and infuriating moments of my life.
once again decades ago, the local paper ran an expose of the local towing scheme; the city had a contract with one tow company who would haul the car to a yard way the hell out of town in a shady area, and demanded cash only to release the vehicle. no atm anywhere near, of course.
naturally a couple of years later, another expose of the corrupt deals the tow company was making with a lot of cops, with kickbacks, people being towed while legally parked, etc. etc. etc.
Re:saving the world (Score:4, Informative)
You know how I know you didn't RTFA?
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There are cops chasing cars with radar guns or laser, so that when you get a ticket you feel like you got unlucky, and people like you can take the "moral high ground". If that same cop watched traffic cams with a stopwatch or simply counted frames in the video, he could issue many more citations than having to catch speeders with radar, and there would be video evidence very hard to beat. Heck, a lot of it could be automated, take the cop out of the equation altogether. Similarly you could use toll readers
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Yeah the "most vulnerable people" part is bullshit.
But, traffic violation tickets are a scam. Over here, it usually takes weeks, sometimes a month or two, until you get the letter. Where it basically gives you the opportunity to pay or write back with a statement. That delay is either gross incompetence or intentional, because yeah, sure I know exactly what I was doing when I was driving some road I already forgot six weeks ago. I can definitely swear under oath that I was not doing over the speed limit. I
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In some places traffic laws are used to prey on the poor and vulnerable. For example, by setting unreasonably short timings at traffic lights you can increase the number of red light tickets, and if the area is poor then the citizens are less able to investigate and fight back.
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If you really cared so much about vulnerable people, you would be doing social work or something along those lines.
I'd like to be a house representative. On the subject of vulnerable people, we can discuss new taxation plans which only marginally raise taxes on the rich (0.69% less income to the top 0.1%; 2% less income to someone with $10M annual salary) and the effects on the poor in a failing welfare system [wordpress.com], as well as the stabilizing effect on all low-income families [google.com]. In the long run, I want to target a maximum tax bracket of 1/3 above marginal (a United States flat income tax would be 29.97%; the top tax bracket
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What are you babbling about now? Your response seems to be in the vein of "be a huge asshole to feel superior."
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You're still doing nothing but opening with insults, insulting respondents, and then continuing to hurl insults. Did you have a point, or were you just looking to call people idiots?
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That doesn't seem relevant to anything I've said. You're prattling on angry about everything.
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So a useless 'bot, then? (Score:2, Interesting)
When there are legitimate reasons that you shouldn't have to pay the ticket, in my experience it requires no more than a simple presentation of those reasons to city hall. where the ticket would be paid, and the penalty is always dropped entirely.
The only time I have ever seen people have to pay for parking tickets is when they actually deserved them and reasonably could have known better, but either forgetfulness or simple laziness led to the situation where they ended up getting one.
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I assume you have never seen a NYC Parking sign Cluster.
Several signs that you would need to go through each sign to determine if any preclude parking now.
Re:So a useless 'bot, then? (Score:5, Informative)
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Doesn't look like a bazillion conditions to me.... I've only once seen somebody get a tick
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I think the bot is asking you whether or not you could possibly fabricate evidence, or at least a story that can't be refuted, that one of those things are true.
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Teenagers in my city are targeted for fines as they're without the resources to fight unfair enforcement.
Ex: Install no parking signs on the streets surrounding the high school during the day and ticket all the students. Inform the students that they had a duty to move their cars upon installation of the signs as th
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I live in an area with a greater metropolitan area population of about 3 million. Nowhere nearly as large as LA or NY, to be sure... but not exactly "thu sticks" either.
To be frank, part of my original remark about the it being useless is driven by the fact that the only reasons it considers as arguable are fairly obvious ones... where extenuating circumstances other than those listed could easily be legitimate reasons to not have to pay a ticket, and a human lawyer could probably successfully argue th
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When there are legitimate reasons that you shouldn't have to pay the ticket, in my experience it requires no more than a simple presentation of those reasons to city hall. where the ticket would be paid, and the penalty is always dropped entirely.
The only time I have ever seen people have to pay for parking tickets is when they actually deserved them and reasonably could have known better, but either forgetfulness or simple laziness led to the situation where they ended up getting one.
I got a parking ticket in West Palm Beach at 9:45pm on a Friday night. The parking meter was literally inside of a bush. I didn't even think to look for one because what small city makes anyone pay for parking on a Friday at that hour downtown? Could I have fought the ticket and won? Probably. But it was a $30 ticket and the cost of going out of my way (I do not live anywhere near West Palm Beach) would have far exceeded the fine. My resolution? Pay the parking ticket and never visit that piece of shit
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http://www.princeofpetworth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/conflicting-parking-signs-e1285855592236.jpg is clear enough to me (though complicated): To the right: 1) No parking, ever. 2) Standing (Loading in the UK I assume) is permitted outside of Mon-Fri rush hours. To the left: 1) Parking is only permitted on Sundays between the stated hours; 2) Standing permitted as to the right. Then again, I'm English and our councils invented signage like this!
Of course the signs can be interpreted. But why would they require someone sit there and analyze the sign in detail before deciding to park? And there are plenty of people with reading comprehension skills that would have a very difficult time understanding the logic of the signs. In fact, that makes me think that someone with dyslexia or has some other processing disorder should sue the city of New York in US Federal Court for violating the Americans With Disability Act as those signs could be considere
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When there are legitimate reasons that you shouldn't have to pay the ticket, in my experience it requires no more than a simple presentation of those reasons to city hall. where the ticket would be paid, and the penalty is always dropped entirely.
The only time I have ever seen people have to pay for parking tickets is when they actually deserved them and reasonably could have known better, but either forgetfulness or simple laziness led to the situation where they ended up getting one.
I got a parking ticket in West Palm Beach at 9:45pm on a Friday night. The parking meter was literally inside of a bush. I didn't even think to look for one because what small city makes anyone pay for parking on a Friday at that hour downtown? Could I have fought the ticket and won? Probably. But it was a $30 ticket and the cost of going out of my way (I do not live anywhere near West Palm Beach) would have far exceeded the fine. My resolution? Pay the parking ticket and never visit that piece of shit city ever again.
Not to mention the fact that the purpose of the bot is to help determine whether or not the parking ticket is valid. Have you ever parked a car in NYC? You can have three parking signs with different days and hours specified that basically make parking illegal 24/7 in that space. Why don't they just put a sign that says "No Parking at Any Time"? Because that's too straight forward and doesn't enhance parking ticket revenue. Two second on Google found this [princeofpetworth.com] prime example
and, the defective meters; we have a lot of streets here where it's max one hour parking until 5 pm, then unlimited parking but you still have to pay. the thing is, if you arrive there at 5 or shortly thereafter, the meter doesn't always know what time it is so you feed a bunch of cash or a credit card to it, and it pops up an hour of time, though you've paid for two or three.
and of course, the meters that just don't work right, so you feed them for an hour and come back 55 min later and the meter is expir
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Whenever I have interacted with parking ticket appeals systems, they appear to be a formula lottery - appeal within 45 days and you have a 60% chance of being granted the appeal, presuming you don't write in the reason box something along the lines of "because you all are a bunch of arbitrary idiots and I saw you parking illegally last week too." (Even that might get granted, I think when time's up for reading they throw half in the granted box and half in the denied box.) After the appeals deadline is pa
fines? (Score:1)
These are taxes; pretty much any time we pay the government money, that is a tax.
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Not really.
Taxes are levied universally according to some standard. E.g., income taxes on a particular income bracket.
Fees are paid for services by those who use them. (Though, lately, some places are instituting administrative fees in a manner that functions like fines.)
Fines are penalties paid by those who violate a law or regulation.
In theory, the government would collect zero fines if everyone followed the law all the time. The same does not apply for taxes or fees.
To small of a parking spot? (Score:2)
If the car to big for the spot and you park in it that is your fault.
Re:Too small of a parking spot? (Score:2)
There are also some national and local laws which govern the size of parking bays (to prevent exploiative charging by painting impossibly small spaces). If these are not observed then there is a technical defence against some charges.
There was a spot on one of the local BBC news recently about two men who were spending their retirement measuring various car parks as some local authorities had repainted the lines to squeeze in a few more places and were then issuing fines for "not parking properly" ie within
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yet were moaning over loss of access to low cost parking spaces.
At the same time, if everyone shrinks their parking spaces then there is nowhere to park.
If public or municipal parking spaces cannot fit every street-legal consumer vehicle, then there ought to be disclaimers or exceptions as needed.
If you're going to have a legal standard for private vehicles, you might as well employ that standard universally when it comes to traffic and parking laws.
Danger Will Robinson! (Score:2, Funny)
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Harder than the Mafia?? some of them ARE Mafia
Fair Enough (Score:5, Insightful)
Better yet. Ever have a cop give you a ticket based on a technicality? I have.
Technicalities are not reserved for use by only one side. They are fair game to all. Seems to me that this one is just making these technicalities available to all. Fair enough.
Bad reporting (Score:2)
Traffic tickets are not the same as parking tickets. The terms are not interchangeable.
160,000? (Score:2)
we're all government's bitches (Score:3, Interesting)
my bro got nailed by a red light camera in Fremont, CA. the actual fine was two franklins plus change. Other "assorted fees" cause the entire bill to balloon to just under six franklins.
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some areas has shortened the Yellow signal by 0.1s and increased revenue by double digit %.
Red light cameras are for revenue, not safety.
If you want traffic safety apply the same paradigm used in many European countries, mandatory (almost by necessity) traffic schools, and 95% percent passing required for 100+ questions you will not know in advance.
I know I'm dreaming, high insurance rates and high mortality is much more acceptable.
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There is another factor - the penalties for fucking up is severe and the the assumption of liability based on relative risk. So if a car hits a pedestrian the driver WILL go to jail and WILL be deemed the one at fault. As the one operating a dangerous machine - the liability assumption is entirely on him.
The result is that people actually drive safely. They will stop to let you crossif you are merely walking towards a zebra crossing, long before you actually reach it. If there's a pedestrian on the sidewalk
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Fucking hell, you must have lived in some dangerous places!
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To be fair, my time in France was spent mostly in the Southern champagn region, I can't speak for Paris.
Oh and those "dangerous" places include San Francisco, USA.
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As of october 1, 2012, vehicular manslaughter is a crime in my state. Previously, striking a pedestrian was possibly reckless driving, with the prosecution needing to prove negligence; this is technically impossible, so the only penalty was ever a $20 fine. After October 1, they use a reasonable person test: if you were doing something a reasonable person would consider to increase risk of injury or death (driving at excessive speeds, sexting, etc.) while driving and you killed someone, it's a $5,000 fi
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Where do you live ? Somalia ?
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Yes, I know. That's the case in France - like I said - I specifically pointed out that this was a pretty unique thing. I was also saying it's a very good thing.
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You're not supposed to enter a crossing when the light is yellow, and you're supposed to slow down as you approach a crossing to a point where you can safely stop if it changes before you are inside.
The purpose of a yellow light is to give people who had crossed on green but are still in the intersection time to get out of it before letting cars enter from the other side. It's NOT a last chance to get across the intersection.
Re:we're all government's bitches (Score:5, Informative)
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Additionally you are not permitted to proceed on green until all those who entered in the other directions of travel before the signal went red for them have exited the intersection.
Once you legally enter, eg on green or even yellow if you could not have stopped safely you have the right of way until you exit, not the person with the now green light.
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Okay, clearly US law is different from my country then... and also, completely insane.
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... and did your bro blow through a red light?
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Sure, but he has a great car. It can turn on a Roosevelt, and give a Jefferson change.
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The point is that he's being fined for owning a vehicle that ran a red light. (Civil) Not that he himself did. (Criminal). I don't feel that we should be enforcing laws in this manner. Was someone else driving? Stolen? Mistaken identity? Burden of proof is now on the defendant, and its a much harder fight. If someone is to be charged with committing a crime, the government should be required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did it... not using the revenue mill that the current system is.
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http://abcnews.go.com/US/red-l... [go.com]
And for shortened Yellows when cameras are installed to counter the second argument you make:
http://nypost.com/2012/10/08/c... [nypost.com]
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If you've paid any attention to Trump thus far, you'd know that he's not GOP. Why do you think both the left and right establishment are almost literally shitting their pants in fear of him being elected? Why do you think that hardline elitist Republicans are jumping ship in droves to support Hillary? Hint: he's not loyal to either party, him being a "racist" or "xenophobe" are just code-words used to discredit him because he literally scares the hell out of the oligarchy that the gravy train might be ab
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Politics in the English-speaking world is just devolving into a long winded bunch of mad rants.
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Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. It doesn't just apply to physics, unfortunately.
The farther the establishment tries to shove us away from freedom and liberty, the harder the truly intelligent push back against them. Just look at the situation with the EU. Just days after the will of the people of Great Britain showed that they wish to be independent again the EU counteracts with disarming and assimilating the militaries of EU member-states. It's reminiscent of Vichy France.
It's escalati
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Oh bullshit. There's nothing "truly intelligent" about backing people like Trump or Jeremy Corbyn. It's pure gut-level reactionarism. As to the will of the people of the UK, it was mad attack against Westminster which will do nothing but damage the fortunes of Britain, likely leading to the loss of Scotland, and maybe Northern Ireland in the process. It was stupidity of the highest degree and ably demonstrates the US Founding Fathers' deep distrust of unimpeded democracy.
For fuck's sakes, within a few days
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I'm not sure what's more annoying:
- Listening to Trump
- Seeing every fucking internet forum and news source full of jackasses that love talking about how much they hate Trump, but in reality they're so obsessed with him that they should just go have sex with him already.
Actually no, that's easy, it's definitely the later. Why? Trump is dead simple to ignore: If you see an article that has his name in it, then you don't click on it. It's that fucking easy. (That is, unless you actually watch live television,
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For fuck's sakes, within a few days over a million people, basically the margin by which Leave won, regretted their decision.
I never realized the petition was only accessible to people who voted to leave and then regretted that choice.
Silly me. I had assumed the two million were just petulant children who didn't get their way, and were crying about it in public.
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The Founding Fathers had no love of power being concentrated in any one group's hands, without some competing group be able to balance it out, and check it if necessary. In their vision, the only part of the entire Federal government that was directly elected was the House of Representatives. Senators were chosen by the States, the President by the Electoral College, and the Supreme Court by the President with the approval of the Senate.
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Just days after the will of the people of Great Britain showed that they wish to be independent again the EU counteracts with disarming and assimilating the militaries of EU member-states.
That's a very interesting claim. Care to back it up with a Citation?
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The English-speaking world is just devolving into a long winded bunch of mad cunts.
Fixed that for you.
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>The biggest homophobes are islamofascists. See Orlando, Tehran, Saudi Arabia.
Right because Christian homophobes have been so peaceful and progressive over the centuries... oh wait, well the last decade... pay no attention to the man with the trunk full of explosives on the way to the Pride. Pay no attention to Uganda, they've never liked gays anyway... of course until a bunch of American Christian Fundamentalists went to preach there they certainly didn't KILL any gays, disliking them is bad but most of
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Truth to a US "liberal" is as salt to a slug. (See my sig)
I read your sig and it's stupid. You're one of those very silly people who sees world in black and white terms cheering on your "team" and having a nice 2 minutes hate for the other team. Try actually engaging your brain and thinking independently for a change.
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I read your sig and it's stupid. You're one of those very silly people who sees world in black and white terms cheering on your "team" and having a nice 2 minutes hate for the other team. Try actually engaging your brain and thinking independently for a change.
Classic liberal/progressive reply: Pure projection. Accuse those with whom they disagree of the very things they are guilty of. I believe in many cases it's at least partially due to an inability to imagine their opponents *not* engaging in the same kind of Alinsky-style tactics that they embrace.
Protip: When your central playbooks' author ("Rules For Radicals" - Saul Alinsky) dedicates his book to Satan among others, that should be setting off serious alarm bells in one's mind, even if one is an atheist.
St
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When your central playbooks' author
What on earth are you talking about?
But keep up the hate! It suits you.
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The original comment was politically charged and trollish.
Aside from the political jab, it offered no substantial commentary.
I agree that the parking enforcement is over the top, but I still believe that comment earned the negative moderation.