Welcome To Alphanumeric Car Hell (theverge.com) 224
Jason H. Harper, writing for The Verge: Et tu, Hyundai? Until recently, the Korean brand offered two upmarket cars, the Genesis and the Equus. The first name had biblical shades and the latter shared a title with a play where an adolescent likes to get naked and straddle horses. So while the connotations were a bit muddled, at least they were memorable. Now Hyundai has spun Genesis into its own luxury brand, akin to what Toyota did with Lexus decades ago. And in so doing, it has cast off those memorable names in favor of an alphanumeric naming strategy. The Hyundai Genesis is reborn as the Genesis G80 and the Equus sheds its horsey homage to become the G90, which guarantees that I won't remember the new names. I'll just call the G90 the Model-Formerly-Known-as-Equus. And while the two models seemed well differentiated before, now the distinctions are hazy. The G90 apparently has 10 more units of something over the G80. Perhaps it is 10 percent better. Ten percent bigger? Ten grand more expensive? Welcome to Alphanumeric Hell.The rest of the article is worth a read as well.
Numbers Are Easy (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Numbers Are Easy (Score:5, Informative)
Numbers are easy, until marketing and/or legal gets involved.
Porsche numbered their cars based on project number. So the iconic 356 is the 356th project that Porsche Engineering undertook.
Except Ferry didn't want his first customer to think they were the first... so the first project was #7, so the 356 is actually project number 349 (this is where marketing kicked in for him).
This carried on with sub assemblies - the 744 transmission, etc.
Then the 901 was introduced. And after they made 34 cars, Peugeot called their legal department and it was decided that they had an issue with any other car maker making a car and badging wtih a 3 digit number where the middle number is a 0. And so overnight the 901 became the 911.... of course, one of those first 34 cars with the 901 badging are VERY collectible, even over and above any other early 911...
Re:Numbers Are Easy (Score:4, Interesting)
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In the 90s there was a 323 and a 325, both with a 2.5L engine.
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I question your definition of 'perfect sense':
So, the 325i is a 2.5 liter? OK, sounds good.
So the 2.7 liter should be 327i, right? Oh, no, wait it's 325e?
Oh, there is ANOTHER 2.7 liter model? THAT one must be the 327i, correct? What? It's the 528e? Where did the 8 come from?
You already lost me.
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We never got an e39 535i so I never knew they existed :-) We had the 540i e39, and I guess the market wasn't big enough for both the cars (they must have been very close in characteristics).
The m30 engines were actually quite great. Super smooth revver all the way up to redline. The one I drove for a few months was a much better driver than the 540i it was replaced with. I'd love to buy a new car with those engines.
Finally, what a coincidence - I had an '86 e28 with the 2.7l engine (m20). Very nice torque c
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I was bitterly disappointed to find Ford Galaxies no longer look like aircraft carriers and have 7 litre engines, despite being "500" to compete with the Fiat 500, and the Fiat 500 is now 1300cc, and not 500cc.
The manufacturers are a dishonest as the salesmen.
For those who don't know, a Ford Galaxy is supposed to look like this: http://pinthiscars.com/image-post/334-67-ford-galaxie-4-door-wallpaper-4. [pinthiscars.com]
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Ford 500s were supposed to have 500 ponies (back in the day). Other end of the market vs a Fiat 500, which had 2 gerbils (one of which was dead) for power.
No! No It Is Not. (Score:5, Insightful)
The rest of the article is worth a read as well.
TFS wasn't worth the read, manishs. No need to bother going to The Verge to read the article.
Re:No! No It Is Not. (Score:4, Insightful)
There's no need to bother going to The Verge, period.
it's a log scale (Score:2)
1936 Packard (Score:2)
Was their 120 20 per cent better than the 100?
Was their Twin Six twice as good as their plain six?
Is the AMD FX8350 twice anything of the FX4175?
What's your point?
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Is the AMD FX8350 twice anything of the FX4175?
What's your point?
i7, i5, i3.. Intel went to complex numbers.
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A 1936 Packard, or a 1996 Packard Bell?
Slashdot's new slogan? (Score:5, Insightful)
"News nerds don't give a shit about. Stuff that matters only to marketdroids".
The rest of the article is worth a read as well. (Score:5, Funny)
Well the summary was complete shit.
WTF Slashdot? (Score:2, Insightful)
What the fuck is an article like this doing on here?
Whatever next, a review of Britney's new album, or an instructional video showing how to assemble IKEA furniture ?
/. is becoming more and more irrelevant (Score:5, Insightful)
why is this a worthy topic? why is this a worthy article?
Gosh, I miss the good old days where interesting things were discussed rather than these stupid topics.
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I think your nostalgia is clouding your perception of what was reality. Much the same as so many people in the older generation have come to forget the realities of the 1950s and 1960s and instead believe The Andy Griffin Show or Leave it to Beaver was some historical documentary on true life.
Sadly, there has always been crap that rolled through the front page. Back in the 90's we complained that other sites did a better job whether it was Fark or Kuro5hin or later on Digg or some other now-defunct site t
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You were here in the 90s, Mr. 8 digit user ID? Because I was, and no, it was never this bad in the 90s. There was none of this crap. Yes, this is my first time logging in in about 10 years, and I did it just because this article was about the dumbest thing I've seen here, and I had to point and laugh. Seriously.
Re:/. is becoming more and more irrelevant (Score:4, Interesting)
by wannabe ( 90895 )
You were here in the 90s, Mr. 8 digit user ID?
I think you lost your reading glasses, old man. :)
I had a 5-digit ID too, and from my memory, there's some truth to both of your statements. Slashdot the past few years has been markedly worse than it used to be, but even back in its "glory days" it still had a lot of garbage that attracted the same kind of complaints.
One of those content slumps is why I quit following the site for a while, and when I got around to checking back I'd forgotten my password and no longer had access to the email I used so recovery was no option. Which is why I post as AC now, if I bother to post at all. For a while I tried to remember the password, but eventually I quit, and by then I didn't even want to make a new account. IMO it hasn't been worth making a new account here for years.
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Someone upvote the AC to let the lofty 4 digit UID guy know that he needs to take a refresher course in digit counting.
I want to 2nd that /. has always had some fluff as its content. And props to wannabe to remind us of when K5 existed and was the answer to /. "going soft".
It could very well be a slow tech news day. Talking about how marking droids, or trashing them if you so prefer, is a time honored tradition so why not have a thread about it.
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Just don't tell anybody that a 1TB HDD doesn't actually have 1024^4 bytes of capacity or there'll be 97 articles about that.
"The rest of the article is worth a read" (Score:5, Funny)
90 compared to 80? (Score:2)
With a reason? (Score:5, Informative)
So long as there's rhyme and reason to the numbering scheme, I have no problem with it.
BMW does this, and it's awesome. The first digit is the body style (3 is small, 5 is mid, 7 is large), and the next 2 digits are the engine displacement. They add letters on the end for extra little features: i for Fuel Injection, s for Sport Package, L for Luxury Package, etc. So a 328is is a small car with a 2.8L engine, fuel injection and sport package.
They recently added even numbers to denote 2-door variants, and left odd numbers for 4-doors. They've also started putting x or i in front for SUVs or Electric/Hybrids respectively, but the concept holds. The alphanumeric scheme serves a purpose.
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Best Car Name Ever: Bonus points* if you can tell me where it is from:
6000 SUX
* These be worthless "Whose Line" style points.
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Hell yeah, Robocop. Back when Robocop was both a solid action flick and remarkably prescient social commentary.
Re:With a reason? (Score:5, Informative)
BMW does this, and it's awesome. The first digit is the body style (3 is small, 5 is mid, 7 is large), and the next 2 digits are the engine displacement. They add letters on the end for extra little features: i for Fuel Injection, s for Sport Package, L for Luxury Package, etc. So a 328is is a small car with a 2.8L engine, fuel injection and sport package.
Except when they don't [wikipedia.org], and put a 2.0 liter engine in a *30, or a 3.0 liter engine in a *28.
They recently added even numbers to denote 2-door variants, and left odd numbers for 4-doors. They've also started putting x or i in front for SUVs or Electric/Hybrids respectively, but the concept holds. The alphanumeric scheme serves a purpose.
The odd/even thing is stupid, especially when the 4 series is just a 3 series with 2 fewer doors, but the 6 series is not related to the 5 series stylistically (other than sharing a platform). The fact is that BMW is prone to marketing nonsense in their names like every other manufacturer. Hyundai is switching to alphanumeric model names, because that's what all mass-production luxury car makers do (it's true of BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti).
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BMW's inconsistency isn't even new. In the 80's the 325i had a 2.5L, the 325e and the 528e both had the same 2.7L, the 535i had a 3.4L, and the 745i had a 3.2L (with a turbo).
Re:With a reason? (Score:4, Interesting)
Except when they don't [wikipedia.org], and put a 2.0 liter engine in a *30, or a 3.0 liter engine in a *28.
Fair point. There are exceptions (most notably the M and Z series) but even those follow clear patterns for the most part. The Z1 - Z4 were simply sequential, they made a Z1 roadster until they upgraded the design to Z2, etc... (Z8 and Z9 are still dumb.) And the M series are just amped up versions of existing models, based on the associated number. An M3 is a 3-series (small frame) with all the bells and whistles. Likewise an M5 is a tricked out 5-series (mid-size).
The odd/even thing is stupid
No argument here. I didn't like the decision, especially as someone who drove an old 328is 2-door (1999 E36 platform). But I still respect that they've made a choice (whether or not I agree with that choice) rather than just slapping random letter number combos on their cars.
Re:With a reason? (Score:4, Interesting)
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So long as there's rhyme and reason to the numbering scheme, I have no problem with it.
BMW does this, and it's awesome. The first digit is the body style (3 is small, 5 is mid, 7 is large), and the next 2 digits are the engine displacement.
Except when they aren't; these days, the next 2 digits may, or may not, have any connection to the engine size. For example, both the BMW UK page giving technical data for the 3 series [bmw.co.uk] and the BMW USA page for building your own car, after selecting the 3 series sedan [bmwusa.com] indicate that both the 320i and the 330i have a 2-litre turbo 4, with the 330i just having a more powerful version.
Re:With a reason? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Ahh. My last bimmer was an E36, so apparently I missed all the major fuckery.
At least they're keeping the relative performance numerically sound, if not adhering directly to the physical characteristics.
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But everyone on the Internet refers to BMWs by some "Exx" nomenclature, instead of their nameplate model designations.
I'm not sure why this is done, either, unless it's to show you're some kind of BMW sophisticate. I would assume the common labels with model year would provide the same information.
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Explain the M240i xDrive then (Score:2)
So long as there's rhyme and reason to the numbering scheme, I have no problem with it.
BMW does this, and it's awesome. The first digit is the body style (3 is small, 5 is mid, 7 is large), and the next 2 digits are the engine displacement. They add letters on the end for extra little features: i for Fuel Injection, s for Sport Package, L for Luxury Package, etc. So a 328is is a small car with a 2.8L engine, fuel injection and sport package.
Fair enough, but can you explain the monstrosity that is the M240i XDrive then? I'm not a BMW fan. I don't hate them. I just don't care about this kind of car. M apparently means Performance. OK.... I don't speak German so maybe in German using M for "Performance" is actually OK because for all I know the German word starts with M. Then we come to the 240 part, which according to you is the engine size. However, the M240i has a 3.0 liter engine. And you say that "i" means fuel injected. Really? Be
///M is for Motorsport (Score:2)
but in general, yes, it means Performance. :)
I agree, at this point the i for injected is somewhat a leftover. They have a pretty long history at making cars, and have stuck with it. :)
I actually haven't kept up with their model for the past 10 years or so. I've had a few BMWs. A 1988 528e sedan (5 series, e = efficient instead of performance), a 1997 318i sedan (3 series, 1.8 liter), and a 1988 M3. -- that one is special.
Yes, they haven't always strictly held to the naming convention, but you know bas
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They recently added even numbers to denote 2-door variants, and left odd numbers for 4-doors
You mean like the 4 Series Gran Coupe [bmwblog.com]? Is that the not 2 door but 4 door, not Coupe but 4 door car that makes a lot of sense of BMW's naming?
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The Z is a few cm shorter, but a couple cm wider. For all intents and purposes, they're basically the same size
Pardon the watermarks:
BMW E36 Blueprints [the-blueprints.com]
350z Blueprints [the-blueprints.com]
350z Super GT Blueprints [the-blueprints.com]
And more... (Score:2)
Then, of course, the maker might get perverted into adding subversions. So we can go to G90.3.5
And maybe even take a hint from Apple's phones: G80.7+
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Then, of course, the maker might get perverted into adding subversions. So we can go to G90.3.5
And maybe even take a hint from Apple's phones: G80.7+
If Infiniti add subversions, BMW will add gits.
CPUs, graphic cards... (Score:2)
Yeah (Score:2)
Because this kind of naming has worked out so poorly for brands like Mercedes and BMW . Not too mention Lexus and Acura with similar naming schemes for most of their cars.
Maybe Mr. Harper should pull his head out of his butthole?
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It's what you do for luxury models. You put numbers in the name, but hide the numbers in the price.
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Oh, no, you never hide the price of a status symbol! That's why the number associated with most luxury cars goes up with the price.* If your neighbor also gets a luxury car of the same brand, you can immediately see which is most expensive just by comparing the number on the back. Audi is the odd duck there as they don't decorate their model number with fine-grained pricing information.
*Tuner sports models are the exception.
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Since a few years, especially BMW has left that path, and now there is no connection between specs and naming anymore. Mercedes decided that the E no longer points to the type of
On the verge of total garbage. (Score:2)
I think I gave up on this site because of censorship in their forums. They couldn't handle ideas contrary to their narrative. Not really surprised they are generating this kind of innanity.
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EDITOR: Please no more article like this.
What exactly is this post about? (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone doesn't like the name of a car?
Re:What exactly is this post about? (Score:5, Funny)
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Someone doesn't like the name of a car?
Yes, but if we instead ran an article about how CPU's no longer put their speeds into the product title Slashdotters would loose their cool.
Volvo models (Score:5, Funny)
Once upon a time, Volvos had a three-digit model number: the first digit was the series, the second the number of cylinders, and the third the number of doors. So you'd know just from the model that the 245 was the lower-end four-cylinder station wagon (the "fifth door").
When they ditched that system (in the '80s?), the first model was something like the 740; their own ad poked fun at themselves, asking "No doors?"
As opposed to names (Score:2)
Would the author prefer meaningful names like:
Lucid Lynx
Karmic Koala
Jaunty Jackalope
Intrepid Ibex
Hardy Heron
Gutsy Gibbon
Feisty Fawn
Edgy Eft
Yeah, I know they're sorted alphabetically. But which is Version 8.x, 9.x, etc?
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Gingerbread 2.3 – 2.3.7
Honeycomb 3.0 – 3.2.6
Ice Cream Sandwich 4.0 – 4.0.4
Jelly Bean 4.1 – 4.3.1
KitKat 4.4 – 4.4.4
Lollipop 5.0 – 5.1.1
Marshmallow 6.0 – 6.0.1
Nougat 7.0
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Yeah, I know they're sorted alphabetically. But which is Version 8.x, 9.x, etc?
In that case, the letter IS the version # for all practical purposes. You don't need to match it up to a number.
Until they loop the alphabet in a couple of years. But maybe they'll increment the letter of the second word (Angsty Beaver?)
Non-US car markets change names all the time (Score:2)
In China in each body style adjustment after 2 or 3 years gets a new name. For example, what in the US is called the VW Jetta over the years is called Santana, Bora, Sagitar, Lavida, and several others I forget.
Their goal is clear... (Score:2)
Audi still seems to get it right (Score:2)
A4 = more expensive than A3, less expensive than A6
2.0 = 2.0 liter engine
T = Turbo
quattro = all wheel drive
It would be nice if they were all that straightforward.
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You mean boring?
Why would I drive an A4, when I could drive a Giulia instead?
The article isn't about the car, it's about the naming of the car not making sense. While a "Giulia" is a unique name, it doesn't tell you anything about the car and how it compares to others in the Alpha lineup.
As to why to choose the A4, here's a reason.
Giulia Reliability POOR [consumerreports.org]
A4 Reliability VERY GOOD [consumerreports.org]
Maybe that's compelling for you, and maybe it isn't.
I don't care this much about cars (Score:2)
which guarantees that I won't remember the new names
I don't care enough about cars to remember their names. I just need four wheels and a seat. I'm lucky if I remember the name when I really need to know it like communicating with a mechanic or my insurance.
And I'm happy that way!
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I can never remember the make and model of my car...
Rock names (Score:2)
The worst naming was a company that used rocks for their product names.
Granite, Amethyst, Quartz, Topaz. These were video encoders, transport stream processors, video servers, etc., but I was never able to remember which was which.
Equus -- That's not Correct (Score:2)
Computer analogy (Score:2)
Buying a new car is now just like buying a new GPU. Bigger numbers sometimes mean better, except when they don't.
Alphanum hell has been here a long time (Score:2)
It all points back to every luxury brand, regardless of origin, wanting to seem European, especially like German upscale brands. What the non-Euro brands rarely understood, or eventually forget, is that there is (or was) logic and meaning in the Deutsche-luxo name soup: it told you something about the car itself, usually something about size class and/or powertrain.
Some of the invented Japanese luxury brands got this, and mostly still do. Cadillac and Lincoln just need to stop trying to be non-American w
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It seems the most important part is the history of your branding.
For instance, Peugeot has been doing the digit-zero-digit naming scheme since forever ago. So you know a Peugeot 107 is a small car, and that it's newer than a Peugeot 106. It wasn't 100% bulletproof, for instance the 306 replaced the 309. But on the whole, it mostly made sense.
However, I think they started to notice a problem a couple of years ago when they launched the *08 models, so now they all just end in 08, and they've become ordinary n
Sigh (Score:2, Insightful)
This is /. ... (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure people here are used to using (and certainly aren't afraid of) alpha-numeric strings.
Yaz
Ferrari was one of the worst number offenders (Score:2)
In the first 20 years, it went like this:
125
250
330
365
What that meant was displacement of each cylinder in CC. So a 250 was in reality a 3 liter engine. Then they had MM, TR, GTO tacked on after the number. The names and numbers didn't even appear on the cars. It's just what people called them.
Then in the 70's things got weird. a 512BB is a five liter flat 12.
A 512 TR is a 512BB hit repeatedly with an Ugly Stick.
A 308 is a 3 liter V8. A 288? 2.8 liter turbo v8. (they got that motor from Lancia when L
Dear New Owners: (Score:2)
Like this one.
The rest of the article is worth a read as well. (Score:3)
Nah - the first part of the article wasn't worth a read to begin with.
This is NOTHING! (Score:2)
What's the problem? (Score:2)
I don't see the problem -- Genesis and Equus are just as opaque as G80 and G90, and I hadn't heard of any of those model until reading this article.
Most consumers only have one or two cars and only shop for a new car ever 5 -10 years, so they need to learn the current models when they shop, and they can learn alphanumeric models just as easy as unique model names. And if the increasing number signifies increasing cost, that sounds even better.
Unless manufacturers went with functional names "Ford Econobox",
Who cares? (Score:2)
G80 and G90 are *exactly* as meaningful as "Genesis" and "Equus", which is exactly no meaning whatsoever.
Stupid author (Score:3, Insightful)
Ah yes - the new standard in "journalism". "I'm an ignorant jackass and don't like what someone had done - and my personal tastes rule!"
Look jackass, companies have been using alphanumeric model indicators just about forever. Nobody but you seems to be confused by them, go away and get the fuck over yourself.
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No, English is imprecise. If the G80 is 80% good and the G90 is 90% good, than the G90 is 10% better than G80 even though G90 isn't 10% better than G80 is.
Re:Math is hard (Score:4, Informative)
No, English is imprecise. If the G80 is 80% good and the G90 is 90% good, than the G90 is 10% better than G80 even though G90 isn't 10% better than G80 is.
90% of something is 12.5% more than 80% of something.
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Yes, but "10% better" English translated into math terms could mean add 0.1 OR multiply by 1.1. A mathematician would interpret it in the latter way, a common person may assume the former.
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Reading the "story" itself confirmed it.
Either the new owners don't get Slashdot, they want to turn it into something more profitable or that someone somewhere had a vested interest in running this story.
Honestly not sure which.
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Slashdot's new owners seem to occasionally run anti-UBI articles, but take about 2 minutes to mark any pro-UBI submission as SPAM.
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When did /. have competent editors?
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Thanks for posting the link through to YouTube: that guy is insufferable!
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A minor improvement over Forbes with its malware-ridden adverts.
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If you're on SlashDot and driving a Hyundai, your time might be better spent upgrading your skills and/or switching jobs.
Maybe so, but those Genesis aren't the cheap Hyundai Excel many of us remember as a $5995 car. The cheaper G80 is a $47k car, not that I'd consider getting one.
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What cars do successful programmers drive? When is it too late to try to become one?
I made the mistake of dropping out of college with just an associates degree, to pursue a job outside of that industry that was offered to me. It was a big leap for the time and I was quite happy. Now I see what I've managed to do with it, and I'm no-longer so happy.
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I agree, 80 to 90 doesn't tell you NEARLY as much information about the different cars as Genesis and Equus. What a well thought out criticism.
Genesis: The original humans were naked.
Equus: They learned to ride horses before they learned to put on clothes.
Re:How much is that weight in elephants? (Score:4, Interesting)
Worst article ever? What next? Some lazy ass complains that he can not understand numbers in clock?
"The United States notwithstanding, most of the rest of the world has sensibly moved on to measurements based on factors of ten - centimeters, kilograms, and so on. But for some bizarre reason, people worldwide stubbornly refuse to move to a decimal time system. What the heck does 11:15pm mean, anyway? And noon - when in the world is that? I can't understand any of it. Why anyone insists on sticking with such an obtuse, arcane, and difficult-to-master system of time measurement is beyond my comprehension."
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Who are you quoting there? My guess is Bennett Haselton.
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Rolls Royce for instance had a model named Silver Mist. It never sold in Germany. But not because someone was offended by the name, just because Mist in German means manure or garbage. Who would drive an expensive car and tell everyone that he drives manure?
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I imagine everyone knew X has always been edgier than Z, but the gap is remarkable.