Here We Go Again: Microsoft's Popping Up Ads From the Windows 10 Toolbar (pcworld.com) 322
Mark Hachman, reporting for PCWorld: When Microsoft's Windows 10 deadline passed, many heaved a sigh of relief, thinking that Microsoft's obnoxious popup reminders had finally been laid to rest. Surprise! Microsoft's at it again, reminding users to sign up for Bing Rewards by using Edge, Windows 10's built-in browser. My colleague Brad Chacos was hit by the ad after hours, reported it, and immediately erased Edge from his toolbar. Here's what we know: The popup doesn't seem to appear if you use Edge frequently (Brad does not). Personally, I've never experienced a similar ad, though I use Edge as well as Bing Rewards, meaning there's no need for such an ad to appear. A notification here, a suggestion there: Microsoft's gently slipped in promotions for Office as well as its third-party apps off and on since Windows 10 was launched, and then sneakily reset those options once the Anniversary Update launched last summer. But here's the problem. Brad turned off his ad settings; the Anniversary Update reinstated them. Brad says he turned off the ad settings again -- and once again, Microsoft reinstated them.
Simple (Score:4, Interesting)
if they insist it's their computer, ought to pay y (Score:2)
ought to pay you to suffer with it. if it's your computer running their OS, you should still be able to control the appearances.
getting to hate the 'softies.
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This. Remember all those companies in the mid-'90s through the bubble whose whole business model was offering financial incentives to opt into their advertising? Now with Microsoft, you pay them to see the ads.
Remember what happened to all of those companies? Apparently, Microsoft didn't...
Re:Simple (Score:5, Insightful)
Delete that fucking malware from your computer and install some other operating system.
Yeah no kidding. What the hell is this crap, anyway? 'Rewards' program? What the hell? Is this a supermarket chain now?
Personally, I've never experienced a similar ad, though I use Edge as well as Bing Rewards, meaning there's no need for such an ad to appear.
Mark Hachman (more like HACKman if you ask me), stop being a Microsoft shill, you're embarassing yourself. No ostensible computer operating system should be popping up unwanted ads for anything, even if it's for parts of itself. It's just utterly absurd. Microsoft and Windows 10 has become a very, very bad joke, and I don't even want to say what I'm starting to think about the people who honestly think it's 'good' in any way, shape, or form.
Re:Simple (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah no kidding. What the hell is this crap, anyway? 'Rewards' program? What the hell? Is this a supermarket chain now?
It's a consumer-grade OS. What's wrong with borrowing a concept from another area of consumer economics?
Microsoft and Windows 10 has become a very, very bad joke, and I don't even want to say what I'm starting to think about the people who honestly think it's 'good' in any way, shape, or form.
Well I for one think it's great. I'm thoroughly enjoying these stories, and reading about Windows users being pissed off by this stuff. They could stop at any time, but they continue to line up to accept more abuse, so I might as well have a good laugh at their expense. It's not like they weren't warned; MS has been an abusive vendor for at least 3 decades now. If that isn't enough warning, I don't know what is.
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It's advertised as "professional", but you can advertise anything as that. The new Macbook Pro is also advertised as professional and it's consumer-grade too, though with a business-class price tag.
A car company could easily advertise a tiny mini-truck as "professional grade" and make a lame commercial of someone dropping loads of gravel in it (after modifying the suspension heavily so it doesn't collapse), but that doesn't really make it so.
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Personally, I've never experienced a similar ad, though I use Edge as well as Bing Rewards, meaning there's no need for such an ad to appear.
Mark Hachman (more like HACKman if you ask me), stop being a Microsoft shill, you're embarassing yourself.
He might be a shill, but I don't see anything unreasonable about that sentence if you're reporting on something you haven't experienced yourself. Like "I've never had overheating problems, but I live in Alaska", unless you think simply using Microsoft products and services make you a shill.
Re:Simple (Score:5, Funny)
See? The computer suffers from malware called "Brad" that turns off repeatedly the advertisements on Microsoft's system. Microsoft fixes the symptoms without charge, but if the attack persists, I am pretty sure that the EULA will have a passage somewhere allowing them to deal with the problem posed by Brad more thoroughly before it impacts their ad revenue.
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Any company that relies on ad revenue for profits and is not giving away the product for free, needs to fix its broken business model. Just having the ads show up is a sign that Microsoft is desparate for the few nickels and dimes I can get that way which means sell that MSFT stock NOW!
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And just how long will that last? At some point programs won't work well if at all for Win7. How many people you see still running Win2k (or Win98) and say they have no problems?
Re: Simple (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows 7 still has majority market share my a large margin. Programs will still be working for quite a while.
Re: Simple (Score:4, Interesting)
Windows 7 still has majority market share my a large margin. Programs will still be working for quite a while.
And Windows 7 new adoptions last month were 10 times the adoptions of Windows 10.
Think of all those computers being borked or bricked with blue screens of death (or red depending on how your Win 10 was set up) when auto updates that you can't turn off update your machine.
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Anyone who makes software that works for Windows 10 and fails to work on Windows 7 is incredibly foolish. Any reputable software maker for Windows may still even make sure it works on Windows XP. Happy customers means you get repeat business and profits. Pissing off customers the way Microsoft does is a fast trip to bankruptcy.
Re: Simple (Score:2)
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Windows 8 was where they did a ton of optimization so that the runtime resource requirements dropped down to almost XP levels, though the winsxs bloat remains. And Windows 8.1 made something useful out of 8 (got rid of most of Metro crap, though I actually like the tile interface for start page). 8.1 Update 1 broke the improvements to metro a little. If you have software today that works on 8.1 changes are in 5 years it will still work, and allow you to do the same as you do today, be it word processing, gis, cad, endpoint simulation, etc.
There is no reason to have a computer connected to the internet 24/7, use a gateway, allow internet access only when needed.
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There is no reason to have a computer connected to the internet 24/7, use a gateway, allow internet access only when needed.
No reason except that most computers are used especially for accessing the internet. Maybe it's web, maybe it's usenet, maybe it's irc, maybe it's some client-server apps like Office364 or google for work. Most people I know use their computer mainly for accessing stuff on the internet. Sure, we also do things like write programs, or maybe edit a local document. Internet use is so common now days that not having your computer connected seems silly.
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And just how long will that last? At some point programs won't work well if at all for Win7. How many people you see still running Win2k (or Win98) and say they have no problems?
Given Windows 7 has twice the market share of Windows 10 after a concerted year long nagware campaign to get users to switch for FREE it will easily be well past 2020.
Software companies are in the business of making money. You don't do that by alienating 2/3rds of your market..
DVDs were also supposed to be dead a decade ago but markets are not controlled by suppliers they are controlled by demand from paying customers.
I'm sure one day Microsoft's malware operating system will be able to override the user
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The programs will keep working as long as they don't change. I suspect that Win2K used on today's computers is going to be blazingly fast compared to the bloatware in modern Windows. Sure, you have to use Office 95, but that was the last good version of Office anyway.
Windows 7 is also supported until 2020 anyway. Or are you the kind who buys a new car every year because eventually the old car will be obsolete so you upgrade immediately instead of waiting?
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I run windows 7 SP1 and I have NO problem. Auto updates OFF.
Surely that's the perfect way of getting all the viruses and malwares?
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Sure...if all you need is Firefox.
This sort of behavior by Microsoft seems like an excellent opportunity for anti-malware vendors to step in. I Wonder if anybody is offering anto-Win10 protection.
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There aren't many "internet" programs that don't understand proxies, so you are pretty much wrong there, that will work for 99.7% of everything.
The real problem is it takes extra hardware and the real question is why the fuck should we have to?
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They started the bundled updated shit last month. I downloaded updates for one Win7 machine early in the month just after Patch Tuesday (The LAST ONE for me!) and did my other machine about two weeks later, and I noticed they had added the "October 2016 Rollup Update" for Windows and a similar-looking turdball for .NET.
So it begins...
Re: Simple (Score:5, Insightful)
ANY OS is an alternative to the malware, adware, crapware that is Windows 10.
Don't like Linux, get a Mac, or a Chromebox / Chromebook.
Windows was important in the 90s. Wake up that is so last century.
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There are still thing that won't run on any of these the I enjoy such as Overwatch.
Re: Simple (Score:4, Insightful)
Some of us grown-ups have to use our computers for *work* and can't just choose whatever OS has the prettiest icons, you know. That's why Windows still runs the vast majority of the world's workstations.
You dont even need windows for office anymore (Score:2)
Office 365 runs fine in linux or chrome os on a chrome browser.
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Windows 10 doesn't have any exclusive games that are worth buying anyway. There is no rush to make games with the latest DirectX release, and there are no customers clamoring for it.
Re: Simple (Score:5, Informative)
1. My soul has been sold off a long time ago. Selling it again would be illegal.
2. It's your opinion if you call games "worthless piece of shit" and I respect it. Now would be a stretch for me to expect you to respect mine?
3. There have been many excellent games in the last decade. Not my problem if you don't know about them.
4. Oh, a console gamer. That explains a lot.
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4. Oh, a console gamer. That explains a lot.
Surprised he did not claim to have "fucked yer mum".
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If you want to sell your soul to play the latest worthless piece of shit "game" -- go for it. There hasn't been a new revolutionary game in well over a decade.
I'm sure the rest of Slashdot values your opinion of what they should, and should not, be enjoying as part of their own entertainment time.
But for those times that I must play something that isn't available on my OS of choice, I have a PS4.
Oh, a system from Sony, eh? Yeah, take that Microsoft. Ownership of a Sony product will truly show the world your disdain for questionable corporate practices with closed-source software.
Re: Simple (Score:4, Insightful)
It's viable for the vast majority of people. Either that or I've been easily using a non-viable OS for more than 15 years without noticing that it doesn't work. The fact that you personally prefer the garbage MS is pushing doesn't make it a viable alternative to Linux either.
Just because people aren't currently using it doesn't mean it wouldn't be better for them than what they're using now.
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Linux on the desktop is viable if you don't have any non-mission-critical Windows-only software to run, or are willing/able to use an emulation layer to run that software. I have nothing against Linux, but it's foolish to pretend that Windows doesn't have a lock on the desktop for a reason, which is the massive legacy software ecosystem.
Generally speaking, if someone is able to abandon Windows, there's a good chance they may be able to abandon PCs altogether and simply use a tablet with a keyboard attached
Re: Simple (Score:4, Interesting)
Windows is for playing games. (Score:5, Interesting)
This used to be true, but Windows 8 and 10 have changed that. The difference between Windows 7 and Windows 10 is much greater than the difference between Windows 7 and Linux Mint Cinnamon (or Mate). The move to Office 365, a subscriber service model, is also leaving many users cold. They are not moving from office 2000 or 2007 to 365. When Microsoft tries to force the choice and end support for the old versions, then Libre Office may start looking very good to many, formerly, loyal Windows fans.
I've been using Linux as my main desktop and laptop OS since 1997. Windows does not have support for the software I use. I used to be a pretty good hack at Windows back in the 3.0/3.1 days. Windows 95 was a nice upgrade. However, the cost of compilers, powerful databases, source control tools and other programming related software had me starting to use Linux more and more. I knew a lot of people back then who used to just pirate the tools they needed on Windows, but I didn't believe in stealing what I needed to work. After using Linux for a while, I knew I was done with the Windows environment. Linux is so far superior for my needs, there really is no comparison. (YRMV)
If you're happy with the Windows ecosystem, that's nice for you. I've gotten rid of a lot of aggravation in my work life by abandoning that platform decades ago.
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Generally speaking, if someone is able to abandon Windows, there's a good chance they may be able to abandon PCs altogether and simply use a tablet with a keyboard attached or even a smartphone for day to day computing and communications tasks.
There's an equally good chance that they are able to abandon Windows because they have reached a level of basic computer literacy that makes them realize they don't need $product to do $simple_task, for most simple tasks. And how to break down $large_task into those.
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Oh, damn, I never knew. I pretty viably used it exclusively between 2006 and 2011, after which i switched to BSD, but not because Linux wasn't viable. What do I do now, purchase Windows?
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Steam is OK for a minority of older and/or second-rate games. Yes, it's improving, but it's just not there yet. When it gets the triple-A titles I actually want to play, available on release date not years later, then you better believe I WILL there with bells on and bucks in hand, but until then, that's a Nope.
See, I built my homebrew box as a GAMES machine, first last and foremost. That unfortunately leaves me right now with no truly workable alternative, and until there is, Linux shills like you can go
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BTW in case it wasn't obvious, in the above post by "Steam" I meant "SteamOS running on Linux" NOT "Steam on Windows"
Steam is impressive as hell on Windows, and frankly I'm worried that one of Windows' long term plans with pushing their lame-ass app store, is to try to use it to make Windows into an Apple-style walled garden and kill Steam off. Which would be an ABSOLUTE TRAGEDY.
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You should check again and filter by SteamOS/Linux. Then sort by cost, you will see a fair number of triple A games there. Sure a lot are missing but my last check had over 1000 games available. If you don't NEED game-of-the-moment-X, there is plenty there to keep you happy for years.
-Charlie
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https://www.linuxmint.com/
Steam for games. Chrome for Netflix. VirtualBox/VMWare for Windows 7. Works great!
Is VMware workstation actually supported on Mint? I was planning to hold my nose and install Ubuntu, just to get VMware support.
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And this is a surprise? Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
.
Why in the world did Microsoft go through such great lengths to get its customers to upgrade to Windows 10, if they were not planning to gather customer data and monetize it.
Re:And this is a surprise? Why? (Score:4, Funny)
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Microsoft has shown that the Windows 10 customer base is willing to put up with these types of pop-ups. Does anyone really think that Microsoft had no plans to show ads in order to monetize the Windows 10 users?
Nobody here, but what percentage of the overall user base knew that when the clicked that big annoying update button staring them in the face? How many knew their privacy and ad settings for the superficial good they actually do would be randomly reset constantly and most deliberately by Microsoft?
Why in the world did Microsoft go through such great lengths to get its customers to upgrade to Windows 10, if they were not planning to gather customer data and monetize it.
I guess I'm the outlier in that I don't deem it acceptable for businesses to intentionally leverage their own customers ignorance to their advantage.
Some may feel otherwise but remember the golden rule we can't a
Here we go again (Score:5, Funny)
[eats popcorn]
This just keeps getting better and better. Go Satya!!
Hopefully, they'll next force full-screen advertising on startup, and periodically during use.
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Satya N.
Satyan.
Hmmm.
Re:Here we go again (Score:4, Funny)
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People who use W10 are so locked in to MS, I honestly wonder whether they'd stop using it even MS mandated that everyone's lockscreen be goat.cx or something, or whether they'd find a way to like it.
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So glad I don't have any computer with Windows 10 (Score:4, Insightful)
With my personality, I'd be miserable. Not being able to schedule updates when I want (or completely opt out of them) is something I not only take for granted, but something I insist on. Same with ignoring my privacy settings. And shoving ads down my throat (after I opted out of them) would drive me mad.
So, I guess Windows 10 is for the meek, and as we know, they will inherit the Earth.... right?
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Been running Win 10 since summer, yet to see an ad. Seeing one would probably make me change my tune, although I do have anti-beacon installed. I've played around with Ubuntu a few times, but you know what? When I hook my Win 10 laptop up to TV with HDMI cable, it works. When I do the same with Ubuntu, no sound. That's why people don't use it.
When I hooked a web cam up to Linux, it worked. When I did it in Windows it did not. This is why people use Linux.
This was totally true, but it sounds silly, don't it?
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I upgraded from Windows 7 (2-year-old installation full with various software and games and whatnot) to Windows 10 in August last year. The machine works very well. I saw no ads, ever, and I don't use Bing or Edge. I use Chrome and occasionally Firefox.
Then I installed Ubuntu on a spare HDD on the same machine. Fresh install. My headphones were not detected and didn't work (Logitech G930). Then I followed various tutorials from the good ol' Net and managed to bring them to a working state. Surround button d
Re: So glad I don't have any computer with Windows (Score:2)
From what I can see, the Logitech G930 headphones seem seem to work out-the-box (but you may not have known where to look) although maybe missing some features:
http://blog.brendel.com/2011/0... [brendel.com]
For the keyboard, did you try g15daemon? See e.g. https://ubuntuforums.org/showt... [ubuntuforums.org]
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Well there is a difference between "seem to work" and "did work".
As for the other peripherals, the amount of manual work I would have to put in to set up each profile for each game and each application makes that solution simply not efficient.
I might calculate my time efficiency differently than most, but my rule of thumb is: if it takes me more than twice as much to achieve a goal in method B than method A, I'd not use method B.
So if I can set up a profile for a game, complete with auto-switching, key back
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You act as though stuff working in linux and not windows is as frequent an occurrence as stuff working in windows and not linux, which is obviously false.
Not obvious from the sample set here, which was my point. And if you want to go larger just google "no Windows 10 driver" and see a lot of people with problems on Windows that may "just work" on Linux. Got a number of free printers that way.
Screwed either way (Score:5, Interesting)
I've got money burning a hole in my pocket, but between this and the piece of shit MacBook Pro that was announced recently, I don't know what to do. Buy a Razer laptop and install Linux? The Surface Studio looked amazing but I refuse to use Windows on my personal computer.
Like this election cycle, it seems that personal computing seems to be on the same race to the bottom, in terms of which company can screw over their most loyal users the most.
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I've got money burning a hole in my pocket, but between this and the piece of shit MacBook Pro that was announced recently, I don't know what to do.
I'm no fan of some of the behavior recently, but this latest one requires you to be using Edge. You'd be doing that why? Use Firefox like a normal person and you're okay. Or Chrome, if you must.
There's much to get riled up about, but this one isn't one.
My latest purchase was a Surface Book, and after setting things my way (ClassicShell, etc), it's very reasonable.
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Dell Latitude or Precision Mobile, then install Linux. You can configure these exactly how you'd want.
Re:Screwed either way (Score:4, Insightful)
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Give it to me.
Dell (Score:2)
Dell has some pretty spiffy laptops with Linux pre-installed, up to date ans supported drivers and the rest. They also sell Steamboxes.
Windows 10 Enterprise may be the fix for this (Score:2)
I really wish Microsoft had handled this "free upgrade" thing better. Marketing wouldn't allow them to say "We're merging Home and Pro into Home, buy a subscription to Enterprise if you want to opt out of the tracking and the ads." But, that's exactly what's happening. Most large businesses are going to have to shell out for Enterprise in the form of a Software Assurance subscription.
With minor complaints about the UI and of course the ad-supported nature of it all, I find Windows 10 to be pretty good overa
Re:Windows 10 Enterprise may be the fix for this (Score:4, Insightful)
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Although I don't like the 365-style rental model any more than the "you are the product" one, I think Microsoft could use it to allow people to buy into Enterprise if they didn't want to be tracked.
Nothing prevents Microsoft from making a domain-crippled "Personal LTSB", no Edge, no Cortana, no feature upgrades, ten years of running Windows software with security patches and all the work is basically done anyway. They just don't want to.
You don't own your computer anymore (Score:3)
I realized about 10 years ago that the mindset trend was to stop respecting device ownership and leverage the install base as a market. You see this primarily on Win, but OSX too. Microsoft started this before giving away Windows 10 for free, but now it's somehow more acceptable because, hey you didn't pay anything for it. Well now you're finding out "free" still has a price.
The only place it doesn't happen is on Linux. Which, along with a non-obtrusive updater, has become my OS of choice.
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The only place it doesn't happen is on Linux. Which, along with a non-obtrusive updater, has become my OS of choice.
To be fair, Canonical tried it with the Amazon scope, but got slapped down so hard I doubt anyone else will try it for a while!
Re:You don't own your computer anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
Except these days most people /are/ paying for Windows 10, either by purchasing it from retail (a tiny minority) or as a hidden cost included in the price of their new PCs (everybody else). While OEMs usually receive a large discount from Microsoft, Microsoft isn't giving Windows10 away for free to them either. I read that only about 30% of Windows 10 users are those who received the free upgrade; the larger majority purchased the new OS when they bought a new computer.
So it's ingenuous to claim that adverts are acceptable because Windows10 is free, because for most people it was not.
Bring them down from the inside! (Score:3, Interesting)
Golllum's Input (Score:2)
Trust (Score:5, Insightful)
If you can't trust your operating system, you can't trust anything on your computer. Linux might not be user-friendly, but at least it's not actively user-hostile. Resetting user settings is hostile. Showing ads is hostile. And automated updates means they can run any code they want on your machine, which requires trust or at least naivete. And to be honest, user-hostile is much harder to debug than any Linux problems you might have.
Unsurprising (Score:2)
Toolbar? What Toolbar? (Score:2)
We don't need no stinkin' browser share... (Score:2)
Gee, I had no idea that Microsoft was so adamant about minimizing the market share of Edge. Because this is a sure fire way to guarantee that Windows users have no interest in ever launching their new fledgling browser. Kudos to you, Microsoft, for advocating for third party browsers! Hey, I'll be more then happy to help out, by tossing those pesky Edge shortcuts on every Windows 10 box I come across...
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Antitrust (Score:4, Interesting)
Isn't this an antitrust violation? If just bundling a web browser was then surely changing the user's preferred apps to their own and opting users in to advertisements they've already opted out of in the guise of a security update ought to be.
Suggestion, not "ad" (Score:2)
See above.
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What is an ad, if not a suggestion by someone for something they want you to buy/use?
SubjectIsSubject (Score:2)
The first thing I did was set my connection to metered so that it wouldn't immediately download a ton fo updates and fill up the tablets relatively small SSD.
This offends me (Score:2)
I'm greatly offended by this. Not the ad - well, okay, that's pretty bad - but by the fact that they used the word "Wanna".
When Microsoft's Windows 10 deadline passed, many heaved a sigh of relief, thinking that Microsoft's obnoxious popup reminders had finally been laid to rest. Surprise! Microsoft's at it again
But it still is laid to rest for those who heaved a sigh of relief, because we're still on Windows 7.
Is it really so bad? (Score:2)
Windows 10, so far, has only pestered me, via notifications, to try Office 365 for free. I think it drops a notification once a week or two? I dunno, I just clear it and get on with my life. Is this really bad? I don't think so. Would no advertising be better? Of course.
A bit excessive on the anger over a stupid notification that goes into your notification taskbar icon periodically.
Bottom line for me: It's not intrusive enough for me to be bothered or care.
Re:OS as advertising platform (Score:5, Insightful)
The good news is that Windows and Linux have exactly the same amount of support (unless you're an enterprise paying a fortune to MS on an annual basis). And the Linux UI on most distros is far more user friendly than the Windows one (don't confuse familiarity with ease of use, they aren't related)
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Hopefully MS will grow a backbone and tell the EU to shove it, and force them to have ads too. If the EU refuses or gives them any legal problems, MS can simply shut down all their government computers, yank their licenses, etc.
You don't make yourself utterly dependent on someone, and then tell them what they can and can't do.
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