Windows 10 Update Broke DHCP, Knocked Users Off the Internet (arstechnica.com) 256
Microsoft has quietly fixed a software update it released last week, which effectively prevented Windows 10 users from connecting to the Internet or joining a local network. From a report on ArsTechnica: It's unclear exactly which automatic update caused the problem or exactly when it was released -- current (unconfirmed) signs point to KB3201845 released on December 9 -- but whatever it was appeared to break DHCP (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol), preventing Windows 10 from automatically acquiring an IP address from the network. There's also little detail on how many people were affected or why, but multiple cases have been confirmed across Europe by many ISPs. A Microsoft spokesperson has meanwhile confirmed that "some customers" had been experiencing "difficulties" getting online, but that's about it for public statements at present. However, a moderator on the company's forums has said the fix was included in a patch released on Tuesday called KB3206632.
Satnav (Score:5, Insightful)
Having fun in Satnav's involuntary public beta testing program?
Re:Satnav (Score:5, Interesting)
I have to wonder about this specific bug. They fucked up DHCP? Doing what to it? The DHCP stack isn't something that needs regular tweaking; it's not like there are new features being introduced to DHCP all the time. The protocol is mature and relatively static, and the DHCP client in Windows has been robust for years. Even XP's DHCP client was rock solid, fully IPv6 aware, etc. There's nothing to be making changes to in that codebase. Just as I wouldn't expect CALC.EXE to get updated (and suddenly quit working) unless there's some major new discovery in mathematics that redefines how a calculator should operate, I wouldn't expect the DHCP client to be getting buggered when there haven't been any breakthroughs in IP lease assignment.
So what the hell they were mucking around with - adding more spying? Everybody gets a persistent route to FBI HQ in their config?
Re:Satnav (Score:5, Interesting)
You don't need to touch a specific part of a stack to ruin something. Calc.exe would be equally screwed if you did something that broke the Win32API.
Likewise the change could have been completely unrelated to DHCP. Did anyone confirm if the rest of the network stack was okay or did they just conclude that Microsoft broke a very specific part of DHCP?
I once broke DHCP on my linux machine with a typo in an iptables script. That annoyed my especially since it was one of those bugs that was fine until the next reboot and the machine was headless.
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Saw this on a customer's machine just yesterday. 'ipconfig /all' showed the wireless adapter's ip as 169.254.n.n but the gateway and DNS address was valid. That would indicate to me that the DHCP request was valid, but whatever came back as an IP address was faulty.
Re:Satnav (Score:5, Informative)
Nobody seems to have much to say on what exactly the 'connected devices platform' is; but it sounds like the problem isn't with the DHCP client itself; but with some questionably sensible abstraction layer failing at automagic above it, in the service of some windows-everywhere-in-the-connected-home fever dream.
Sort of like the time they broke all those webcams [arstechnica.com], not by monkeying with UVC support; but by quietly inserting a poorly thought out frameserver without telling anyone because being able to log in with your face is obviously more important than Directshow working as expected.
Proprietary software never bends in your favor (Score:3)
Thanks to the power of the proprietor, you'll never know the answer to your questions even if Microsoft claims to tell you what happened. Without software freedom, you won't be able to get source code diffs that would let you recompile and verify the binaries Microsoft distributes. One of many reasons only the proprietor can trust their proprietary software.
Re:Satnav (Score:5, Insightful)
Having fun in Satnav's involuntary public beta testing program?
No worries, I'll just disable automatic updates until they sort it out.
Wait, I can't do that anymore? Oh.
Okay then, I'll just not install the optional KB3206632 update.
Wait, the only option is the December Rollup Update package? I can't disable single updates anymore? Oh.
Okay then, I'll just look for my Windows 7 installation DVD and abandon this Windows 10 shit.
Wait, they forced the same update model onto Windows 7 users? Oh.
Okay then, so Microsoft changed their update model to take away all customer control, fired most of their QA department, and now releases update after update with bugs and problems?
Well, fuck Microsoft.
Re: Satnav (Score:5, Interesting)
Linux on the metal. Windows in a VM.
Took a little tweaking (you can google it) and it works perfectly for the vast majority of applications. I only found a slight degradation in the latest and greatest AAA vidya games. And even then, it's around a 10% loss in frame rate, or turning the graphics down from Ultra to Very High.
I tried to get the patch (Score:5, Funny)
But I couldn't get online.
Re:I tried to get the patch (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah. Seems to me an awful lot of affected people ought to bill Microsoft for having a tech guy come set things right for them. Even accidentally breaking the means of acquiring repairs is a special sort of evil.
I know it's not exactly difficult to manually assign an IP, but only if you know what you're doing.
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you get what you paid for...
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even the people who got the free upgrade have paid a lot of money for the previous operating system.
Or for repairs when their system was broken by the upgrade process too.
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like i said, should have bought a mac.
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Then you can have hardware failures ignored too.
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I know it's not exactly difficult to manually assign an IP, but only if you know what you're doing.
I thought you said they were Win10 users.
Re:I tried to get the patch (Score:5, Funny)
I know it's not exactly difficult to manually assign an IP, but only if you know what you're doing.
I know what ya mean- for some reason my grandma just never got the hang of configuring DHCP or assigning static IPs.
I tried to email with instructions her but she never responded.
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bill Microsoft for having a tech guy come
I have to ask, do people actually do this?
Re:I tried to get the patch (Score:5, Funny)
I had this happen to 1 machine at work, and did this to fix it:
netsh winsock reset catalog (Reset WINSOCK entries to installation defaults)
netsh int ipv4 reset reset.log (Reset IPv4 TCP/IP stack to installation defaults)
All of that cryptic command-line mumbo-jumbo just proves it: Windows is not yet ready for the desktop.
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Sheeeit, with Linux your CLI command code to do the same thing is at least double that length.
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I had this happen to 1 machine at work, and did this to fix it:
netsh winsock reset catalog (Reset WINSOCK entries to installation defaults)
netsh int ipv4 reset reset.log (Reset IPv4 TCP/IP stack to installation defaults)
I had this happen to my machine, and did this to fix it:
ipconfig /renew
Re:I tried to get the patch (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure some people probably thought their computers were broken and took them in for service,but since they couldn't get on the internet, most people probably called their ISPs, who have technicians in India who have no troubleshooting skills beyond asking them to reboot.
I fixed that sentence for you.
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Article is wrong, rebooting does not fix the issue.
Hi. Internet Tech Support here.
It actually does -- at least temporarily.
I have first-hand experience with dozens of Windows 10 users over the last few days to back up my statement. What do you have?
I suspect the reloading of the system kernal and drivers that takes place when one does a "Restart" (as opposed to choosing Shutdown and then turning the machine on again) is related. A normal shutdown would by default use Windows's "Fast Startup" feature, but using the Restart command does not.
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"I fixed that sentence for you."
No, you didn't, you introduced punctuational fuckups (such as missing a space after your comma between the quoted "service, but".)
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I have a MS in computer science and 30 years experience. And yet you allow Windows 10 on your computer. 'nuff said.
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And who rapidly pulled a "Not my problem" approach.
I got a call from a friend who was desperate for support (and no money to pay for it). Since her daughter's tablet could connect just fine Comcast's answer was it's the computer; not our problem.
I had to ask them multiple times to just give me the base settings for the damn router (they can query from their end) so I would know what scope to configure a static IP for this person's PC in. Bunch of unhelpful twats.
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use the arp young grasshopper
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I had to ask them multiple times to just give me the base settings for the damn router (they can query from their end) so I would know what scope to configure a static IP for this person's PC in.
The daughters tablet was working... why wouldn't you just have grabbed the info from that?
On the other hand, my brother in law hit the same issue on a couple of his PCs... he just did a system restore to before the update. And he was up and running.
People here seem perpetually determined to do things the hard way. :)
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Tablet was a kindle... easier said than done to get that info off it.
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http://classroom.synonym.com/i... [synonym.com]
It's as easy as it is on other android devices.
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uh, no, it's super easy. methinks your handle is a bit of a misnomer
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Good reason to keep a Linux boot disk/rescue disk or thumb drive handy.
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Big deal (Score:2)
They should just download a new fix from internet to make it work again. Yawn.
Networking.....Windows Update? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Networking.....Windows Update? (Score:5, Funny)
Always on updates................ How do people get the update fixing the update when you've broken their fucking network you dumbasses?
Simple. You buy and install a server that can feed a pxe environment through bootp, and install the patches that way...
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Either you and I have different definitions of simple or you're a lot better at sarcasm than I.
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Answer: You simply have no sense of humor.
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This is a job for a Raspberry Pi. Can't wait. Gotta find an image to do this.
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No no no... I think he meant distributing a Linux image through PXE...
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Oh you n00bs with your 'install Linux' nonsense. If a pre-configured read-only LiveCD can't do what you need then Linux isn't for you.
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System restore to before the update.
The hard part is not getting the update that's easy.
The hard part is finding out that its a known issue with the last update; and that you need to get a new update... since you are offline and can't search to find out. (assuming this computer was your only internet access)
But really, if my computer did an update, and then couldn't connect to the network, step one is to roll back the update. Windows can still do that... unlike, say Apple OSes.
That's not to say I am onboard
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System restore to before the update.
Or simply reboot. The problem does not persist through a normal reboot. But to know that you'd need to have read a story on Slashdot which covered this.
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https://support.microsoft.com/... [microsoft.com]
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You expect the average user to know how to read or understand half of that, let alone know how to operate Windows in a proper manner.
-50 geek points for you.
Re:Networking.....Windows Update? (Score:5, Informative)
How do people get the update fixing the update when you've broken their fucking network you dumbasses?
I'm sure the Microsoft people never thought of this and the Slashdot people are smarter. After all we only ran a story a few days ago about how this problem is transient and doesn't persist through a full restart, which is precisely what Microsoft is telling people to do. (It was also mentioned in TFA)
This is one of those issues which will affect some Slashdot users more than mum and dad's, not because the Slashdot users are more technically minded and mess with their machines, but because they seem incapable of doing something as simple as reading.
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And to think these are the people who are getting paid exorbitant amounts of money to put out such shitty software.
Why shouldn't they? People happily throw their money at them for this shitty software, no matter how much that software makes their lives miserable.
This situation will never change until customers finally wise up and start voting with their feet. I don't expect to see that happen in my lifetime.
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Considering 'voting with your feet' got replaced with 'voting with your wallet' DECADES ago, no fucking wonder you don't expect to see people voting with their feet in your lifetime.
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boot into linux ,
Lol, I can see it now....
Caller: Microsoft support? Yeah, I applied the latest patch and my PC won't connect to the internet!"
Microsoft: "Okay, first thing you need to do is download Linux. Oh, wait, you can't connect to the internet. Okay, go to an internet cafe or a friend's home, someone who was smart enough to stick with Win 7. Get them to download a copy of Linux, I recommend Linux Mint. The burn it to a CD or put it on a flash drive. Go back home. Boot from the CD or the flash drive, then follow the p
Yet another result of decimated QA (Score:2, Informative)
The stability and security of Microsoft products has always been (insert pejorative here), but this is getting really serious. They need to reassemble at least a small portion of the QA team that was flushed.
They've been soundly beaten in every area of innovation they've tried so all that's left is corporate lock-in of Windows and Office. If they continue to risk that monopoly revenue stream shareholders are not going to stand for it.
Captcha: upkeep
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They've been soundly beaten in every area of innovation they've tried so all that's left is corporate lock-in of Windows and Office. If they continue to risk that monopoly revenue stream shareholders are not going to stand for it.
What are you talking about? How are they risking those revenue streams? It doesn't matter how many mistakes they make like this, or how awful the Windows experience becomes: users (especially businesses) simply *will not* abandon the Windows platform, no matter what. It makes ze
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I wouldn't say never. We're looking at replacing our Exchange infrastructure in the next 2-3 years, and I said after I brought us up to Exchange 2010 that whatever moderate benefits Exchange offers, I wouldn't be pushing ahead with another version, and now that I'm in a management position with the authority to decide, I'm definitely not going to be staying with Exchange. At the moment the most likely route will be Google's offerings, and once we've broken away from Exchange-Outlook, I think it's likely tha
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" At the moment the most likely route will be Google's offering"
Enjoy Google sniffing and stealing your shit with their machine learning. I just learned they did exactly that to me and sold the knowledge out of my e-mail database to fucking China. How? One of my e-mails ended up getting re-routed and the idiot that received it did a reply-all, thus re-sending the stolen data back to me.
Google is heavily invested in stealing your technology.
Same way Spez is heavily invested in pleasing u/SuperAngryGuy (aka T
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We have Windows 10. We're already handing mountains of data to MS, so what's the difference? And I've been using GMail for well over a decade and never experienced what you did.
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Its called "Battered spouse" syndrome.. One spouse, often the man, but not always, beats the shit out of the weaker spouse, verbally abuses him/her, but said abused spouse won't leave the batterer because ...reasons... In this case, the battering "spouse" is Microsoft and the weaker "spouse", the millions of abused Windows 10 users (and their support staffs) who won't leave Microsoft behind because .....reasons.... A lot of us, were we to be on the recieving end of MS's abuse wouldn't put up with it... and
Re:Yet another result of decimated QA (Score:5, Insightful)
OpenSSL has a serious vulnerability for 2 years and nobody bats an eye.
I assume you are referring to HeartBleed.
Let's start with the obvious: OpenSSL had a vulnerability which no one knew about for 2 years. As soon as it was discovered, a fix was issued 6 days after the bug was discovered.
Now let's talk about the details: Heartbleed was a vulnerability which would allow someone to undermine security of OpenSSL. It didn't stop computers from functioning outright.
Lastly, EVERYONE treated Heartbleed as serious. Your assertion that "nobody bats an eye." is an outright lie.
Microsoft has a network issue for a week and the Linux fags line up to crucify people. What a community of hypocritical fuckwits.
Way to downplay the problem which is not entirely accurate: MS released an update which borks their customer's internet connection.
Re:Yet another result of decimated QA (Score:5, Informative)
Proving (yet again) that the claim made by open source advocates of "many eyes make bugs shallow" is bullshit. The reason that the bug went unnoticed for 2 years is that nobody was looking at the source code. Not even the people who wrote it.
Except someone did find it, even if it took awhile. How does that work with a closed-source product like Windows? How many critical vulnerabilities are lurking in there, perhaps bugs or perhaps intentionally introduced at the behest of governments, and simply cannot be discovered because the source isn't available?
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Taking you literally for a moment: If they cannot be discovered, then they cannot be exploited.
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OpenSSL has a serious vulnerability for 2 years and nobody bats an eye. Microsoft has a network issue for a week and the Linux fags line up to crucify people. What a community of hypocritical fuckwits.
OpenSSL [wikipedia.org], I believe, is free (and somewhat if not an open source). The vulnerability went under radar for 2 years [wikipedia.org] because nobody publicly disclosed until then. The patch came out pretty soon after. On the other hand, Windows 10 is NOT FREE. Either you bought the OS before or it came with a device you had paid for. You could upgrade it from Windows 7, but it still falls into what I mentioned earlier. You are supposed to get what you paid for...
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"Microsoft finally released their securest version of Microsoft Windows Operating System in their history"
Yet the ad-ridden sleep/user selection screen is still as vulnerable as it was in Windows ME, actually moreso since it can actually execute code in the background from those ads.
most UEFI boards can do in bios updates (Score:2)
most UEFI boards can do in bios updates some even can download and install on there own.
Update available! (Score:2)
So the patch knocked computers off of the internet.
How are they planning on patching them if they can't access the internet?
What am I missing here?
Re:Update available! (Score:4, Funny)
Uninstall patch, then update?
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Wish I could mod you funny... Maybe sad too?
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3rd party drivers break all the time. This is the standard solution (minus the update part).This gets attention as Microsoft is held to a higher standard than OEMs, and device manufactures.
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Not saying it works flawlessly, but rollback has been around since Windows 98. Linux? As of 2011 at least, the general consensus is reinstalling being faster than fixing the problem under Linux. Gee, that's the EXACT SAME SOLUTION for Windows.
IOW, fucking useless.
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I think uninstalling is faster than a rollback though. If you're using Windows, go to the "View Installed updates", right click on the one you don't want and select uninstall.
I have an idea (Score:2)
I run a computer repair company and saw this on 2 customer's computers. The fix was inconsistent too. Some responded to ipconfig commands, some didn't.
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I had this on a couple clients and after I reset TCP using netsh that seems to have fixed it for them.
Windows 10 (Score:2)
Windows 10: "It just wor*&3_!#dfr2($ carrier lost
Re:Windows 10 (Score:5, Funny)
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Dude, 1996 called and wants its joke back, but you missed the call because you were on the modem.
I'd reply to you but I can't get on the internet.
ISP here... (Score:2)
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Sue them for the costs to support your clients because of their bug and also for the damage to your company's reputation since you say your clients think it's your fault. If you could get all ISPs to do that they might do more testing before deploying an update.
IPv6 solution (Score:2)
If you were to switch to IPv6, wouldn't you automatically get rid of this problem? Since DHCP6 is completely different from DHCP, and not a part of the same stack. That way, you can have them set the router to either take DHCP6 or one of Windows 10's privacy extensions
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People want to upgrade (Score:2)
And fix this bug - but they can't! They don't have an IP address!
Trumpet Winsock (Score:2)
What a shitshow.... Grabs popcorn (Score:3)
Having dumped all MS products when I retired in 2010, and went 100% Linux, I sit back with a bowl of popcorn and laugh my butt off at how badly MS treats those unfortuate souls who *still* use MS products. Kinda reminds one of the "battered wife" syndrome where one spouse is abused by the other, but the abused spouse refuses to leave the relationship because ..reasons.. Believe me if I hadn't already dumped MS products, I sure as hell would NOW, no matter WHAT, after seeing what a "turd_in_the_punchbowl" Win10 is privacy-wise and just plain MS abuse...
ISP Agnostic (Score:2)
According to a statement from Virgin Media, the issue affects "anyone who wants to access the Internet from a computer with the downloaded Windows 10 software update, regardless of the ISP."
Phew! I was really concerned that it might only affect AOL users.
The fix (Score:2)
In admin command prompt:
netsh int ip reset /flushdns
ipconfig
Presto.
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Wrong, the actual fix is:
ipconfig /release /renew
ipconfig
That's all it takes. Also, to prevent the problem until patched a user can disable fast boot in the Power Options.
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I literally ran it on my computer 10 minutes ago and it fixed it.
We badly need a Software Consumers Bill of Rights (Score:3, Interesting)
There are a lot of states where damaging someone's property is a crime and makes you both criminally and civilly liable. Unfortunately all the normal ambulance chasers who would quite rightly file class action lawsuits are scared of the MS legal team and deep pockets. We badly need a software consumers bill of rights to cover all for profit software. In this day and age computers are a mature field where people spend much of their lives. It is about time that the government enact some legislation recognizing this and protecting the citizens from predatory and/or fraudulent software companies. Among those rights:
- Convert all software to be covered by copyright instead of patent law.
- Limit software copyright to 20 years or 5 years after it is no longer for sale or the day and date when it is no longer supported, whichever is first.
- Any software purchased by a consumer is covered by a standard set of rights that parallel ownership of a physical item where applicable or are spelled out in the bill of rights. EULAs are all illegal except between business entities.
- Right of resale is retained by consumer for the physical copy or license key of the purchased software.
- Consumer purchases allow unlimited installs by consumer on equipment they own or use. (Software must be removed from hardware prior to sale/donation).
- Software must function offline unless that functionality requires an online connection.
- Make it illegal for companies to remove functionality previously contained in software/hardware via update, except as a temporary security measure.
- Developers are legally required to provide security and functionality patches to fix bugs and security holes discovered either internally or by security researchers for 5 years minimum after date of final sale without any strings attached. (Failure to do so implies that they intended to defraud the consumer by selling a broken/unfinished/dangerous product and could require refunding all customers and criminal fraud liability.)
- Software updates should not be mandatory unless there is a clear, urgent reason for them to be. If a mandatory update causes the software to become unusable, the company must pay affected users $150/h spent dealing with the problem, cover cost of repairs, pay $60,000/year of lost documents (i.e. if it was 4 weeks since my last backup and all data since that backup is lost, developer is on the hook for $5000), and/or replace affected hardware, the combination of which is based on what it takes to get the system completely restored in a timely fashion.
- Online software licenses/keys/virtual goods and the like have value to the customers who hold them and can be traded/bought/sold/transferred/inherited etc. If a consumer pays actual money either directly or indirectly for a virtual commodity, it can be handled in this way.
- Source code for any and all software and back end servers for sale in the US must be provided to the library of congress in order to enjoy copyright protection. 5 years after that software is no longer for sale or the day that it is no longer supported, LOC should publish source code and the software becomes open domain.
Note this only affects consumer software. Businesses can still do all the licensing and other more flexible arrangements.
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Dream on.
If it breaks DHCP.... (Score:2)
Re:Having fun yet? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is there anyone out there that is not yet aware that this is basically one giant beta test?
Yes, me. A beta test means that there is a plan to release a finished product. I see no such plan.
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Windows 10 is Alpha at best (Score:3)
No matter what some companies want you to believe, Beta means feature complete with just bug fixing and tweaking left to do.
Microsoft said on release that Windows 10 is not feature complete and they will get us the planned features as they are done.
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No, Windows 8 is Alpha. Windows 10 is Beta. And both still ROUTINELY lose keyboard and mouse after booting into Windows/coming out of sleep mode (works just fine to access BIOS/UEFI before Windows takes over, and this problem doesn't occur in Windows 7.)
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I had this same problem with several windows 10 machines, seems like restarting DHCP service (sometimes several times) to make it take an IP address. After that it sometimes work and sometimes fails requiring another service restart
Earlier versions of Windows had a problem with mobile computers, in that it would start using the old cached DHCP assigned address before it acquired a new one. When travelling between networks that had overlapping subnets, that could lead to all sorts of problems, for other machines too. The worst being if your old assigned address was the IP of the DHCP server in the new network...
I think they have fixed that, though.
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Why should they give two shits about producing a high quality product? They can easily claim with marketing that their product *is* "high quality" even if it's not. The only thing that's important is profit, and if idiot customers continue to give them their money, this situation will not change. Microsoft is correct to do a half-ass job on its releases and updates, and let users pay the price in lost productivity and expensive support calls, so that MS can enjoy higher profits.
Re:VMs for Windows (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah, I had my Windows 10 machines go down a few weeks ago for bad WiFi driver updates. Rolling back solved it, and this one I fixed by rolling back also. Sadly, Windows gets network problems more often than ever few decades.
If you meant something else, hey, throw it against the wall.
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I reset tcp using netsh and that seemed to fix it for me for the couple instances I have seen.
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hehe Dumped Windows totally... Nothing but Linux... Its like what computing *should* be.... Feels pity for those who either are forced to use MS products or just think they have to....
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hehe Dumped Windows totally... Nothing but Linux... Its like what computing *should* be.
I've done the same ... I still have a Win 8.1 partition but almost never boot it. There are a few games on it but mostly I can't be bothered and it's too distasteful.
Windows fans and/or anti-Linuxers make a point that a Linux system requires a lot of manual set up and tweaking. While not as bad as they make it out to be, there is admittedly some and it does take me a couple of days to get a brand new installation set up completely as I want it (I'm especially particular).
But the point that's missed is that
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