CNET Editor Rails Against Non-Consensual Windows Updates (cnet.com) 498
schwit1 shares this angry commentary from a CNET senior editor:
Maybe you're delivering a presentation to a huge audience. Maybe you're taking an online test. Maybe you just need to get some work done on a tight deadline.
Windows doesn't care.
Windows will take control of your computer, force-feed it updates, and flip the reset switch automatically — and there's not a damn thing you can do about it, once it gets started.
If you haven't saved your work, it's gone. Your browser tabs are toast. And don't expect to use your computer again soon; depending on the speed of your drive and the size of the update, it could be anywhere from 10 minutes to well over an hour before your PC is ready for work. As far as I'm concerned, it's the single worst thing about Windows. It's only gotten worse in Windows 10. And when I poked around Microsoft, the overarching message I received was that Microsoft has no interest in fixing it.
The editor recalls rebooting his Windows laptop while listening to a speech by Steve Jobs in 2010. (The reboot locked his computer for 20 minutes while updates were installed, "the first of three occasions that a forced Windows update would totally destroy my workflow at a critical moment.") He shares stories from other frustrated Windows users, urges readers to send him more anecdotes, and argues that Microsoft has even begun "actively getting rid of ways to keep users from disabling automatic updates."
If you haven't saved your work, it's gone. Your browser tabs are toast. And don't expect to use your computer again soon; depending on the speed of your drive and the size of the update, it could be anywhere from 10 minutes to well over an hour before your PC is ready for work. As far as I'm concerned, it's the single worst thing about Windows. It's only gotten worse in Windows 10. And when I poked around Microsoft, the overarching message I received was that Microsoft has no interest in fixing it.
The editor recalls rebooting his Windows laptop while listening to a speech by Steve Jobs in 2010. (The reboot locked his computer for 20 minutes while updates were installed, "the first of three occasions that a forced Windows update would totally destroy my workflow at a critical moment.") He shares stories from other frustrated Windows users, urges readers to send him more anecdotes, and argues that Microsoft has even begun "actively getting rid of ways to keep users from disabling automatic updates."
Using a computer has become a minefield. (Score:2, Interesting)
Every day, all day, I do nothing but dodge the sophisticated attempts by countless software and hardware vendors to harass me in every way imaginable. Using a computer has become such a privacy, security and usability nightmare that I no longer feel the slightest joy in doing so. And nobody cares. At least nobody that matters in the least.
Re:Using a computer has become a minefield. (Score:5, Interesting)
Can't remember the last time I picked up a phone or a tablet and wasn't greeted by a system update screen, or a notification that 30 apps need to be updated minutes after walking away from a wifi hotspot.
The real problem is that software developers exist in permanent beta, adding and removing features whenever they please. I kind of miss the pre-network days when software was delivered complete and didn't significantly change between versions.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
(Another AC here)
No, the problem is that you are no longer perceived to have any options but to take what you're given. In the old days there were several different operating systems to chose from if one vendor fucked up, there were several office suites to chose from, and any computer would happily handle any of them.
These days, Microsoft and their merry band of helpers are fervently tooling away at appropriating the PC platform so you bloody well cannot run anything but Windows, and a version of it that M
Re:Using a computer has become a minefield. (Score:5, Interesting)
I found my first 6502 computer in my parent's attic last year. Dusted it off. Then dusted it off again. Worked exactly like brand new (after finding a free TV on craigslist). It was the most fun I had with a computer in over a decade. Spent $200 on ebay buying all the nifty things I could never afford as a kid, like a floppy drive, rs232 expansion port, printer and joystick.
Re: (Score:3)
Was it a VIC-20? You can find a "SD" video to VGA/HDMI converter box so you don't need that TV, but the picture you get on a CRT is special.
Re:Using a computer has become a minefield. (Score:5, Funny)
There is a difference. Your phone doesn't randomly shutdown and install updates during an important call with no prompt or warning.
I have no issue with notifications for updates or updates done nicely where it will schedule a time when YOU choose to reboot your device. Not the other way around ... Joke for slashdoter old-timers ... IN SOVIET UNION RUSSIA updates reboot YOU ... Wait a minute??
Re:Using a computer has become a minefield. (Score:5, Interesting)
It's also reasonable to ask why so many updates need to reboot the whole device these days.
99% of the time, that in itself reflects a weakness in the underlying OS and software architecture.
Re: (Score:3)
99% of the time, that in itself reflects a weakness in the underlying OS and software architecture.
I disagree. 100% of the time it reflects poor design.
Re:Using a computer has become a minefield. (Score:5, Insightful)
That is absolutely true. "Using a computer" has become for "knowing how to work around bugs in the software". Updates are just one of the issues.
Although to be honest, my Windows 10 PC upgrades over night as it should. Yes, your tabs are gone, but they reload at the press of a button, and the state of the tabs would mostly be stale, anyway. So my inconvenience has been quite limited.
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Every day, all day, I do nothing but dodge the sophisticated attempts by countless software and hardware vendors to harass me in every way imaginable. Using a computer has become such a privacy, security and usability nightmare that I no longer feel the slightest joy in doing so. And nobody cares. At least nobody that matters in the least.
Wouldn't it be better to use open-source software instead of proprietary? Then you would have more complete control over your computer's behaviour. I don't ever recollect Linux forcing updates on me at an inconvenient time. I have it set up to it just quietly informs me what updates are available, and I can choose whether and when to install them.
Another point: as mentioned in https://it.slashdot.org/story/... [slashdot.org], a Stratus server has been running since 1993 without any forced shutdowns. I noticed the followin
Re:Using a computer has become a minefield. (Score:5, Interesting)
Obviously, it isn't connected to the Internet.
That's not obvious at all. It has a very small attack surface (not many VOS instances around), running on highly specialised hardware. Can't run up one of those in a VM to test vulnerability. Lots of easier targets for the taking.
Also, my Win 7 systems (6 desktops/laptops) and one XP machine run no anti-malware with the exception of noscript in their browsers, all run behind a consumer-grade ADSL2+ modem/router with a consumer-grade firewall, and guess what? WE DON'T GET MALWARE INFECTIONS, because we're smart enough to follow basic security practices.
Some people need their hands held, and some don't. You can't lump us all in with the first category.
Re: (Score:3)
The problem with "basic security practices" is that they are too much for most users to handle on a general purpose OS...
How do you expect users to install application software? They download it and execute it, how do you expect them to tell a legitimate site from a malicious one?
The answer for such users is the repository / app store model...
The fact is general purpose operating systems are simply not suitable for the category of people who need their hands held, and these users make up the vast majority o
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
How do you expect users to install application software?
Create a separate administrator account for when something needs to be installed or they need to tweak system settings. You log into it only when needed. All other times you run as a local user without admin privileges.
how do you expect them to tell a legitimate site from a malicious one?
First, install uMatrix in Firefox which will, under certain conditions, disallow a web page to load if it determines there is something malicious or off about the pag
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How do you expect users to install application software?
Create a separate administrator account for when something needs to be installed or they need to tweak system settings. You log into it only when needed. All other times you run as a local user without admin privileges.
I suppose!
You lose right off the bat there. There is no way that grandma is ever going to maintain multiple accounts on her computer, one with user, one with admin. The first time Grandma needs to log out of her user account because she needs admin privileges, will be the last time the user account gets used.
how do you expect them to tell a legitimate site from a malicious one?
First, install uMatrix in Firefox which will, under certain conditions, disallow a web page to load if it determines there is something malicious or off about the page. It is not foolproof, but it's a good line of defense.
Second, by having uMatrix installed you can control to a very granular degree, what scripts and so forth are allowed to run on a page, thus reducing potential drive-bys.
Grandma is looking forward to the installment, and has some programming improvements she made to the program, and will soon release her own, called Gramma's lockbox.
Third, and this might take a bit of effort, don't go to places like Bob's House of Free Software.
Granted, the last one is nothing more than common sense, but if people really want to lessen their chances of infections or ransomware getting on their machines, they might put in some effort to acquire some.
So what you are saying is that M
Re:You asked for it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Nice bunch of false choices, asshat. The alternative to Blaster, Nimda and Melissa isn't some Nazi-regime where Microsoft sits with all the keys, it's to stop writing shitty, easily exploitable software.
But I guess that's too much for you and your masters, and it wouldn't further your absolute monopoly ambitions either.
Re:You asked for it. (Score:4, Informative)
When those viruses were running rampant, i was running Linux.. The only annoyance was the constant scans from machines infected with such malware that only served to waste my bandwidth.
Back then i could apply updates to anything but the kernel in the background, and then restarted the affected software at a time of my choosing. Same with the kernel, i could install the update in the background and reboot at my convenience to run the new kernel. Rebooting or restarting applications was quick because the actual update had already been applied so the system only had to boot the new version. If i decided to turn the machine off at night or for the weekend, then the updates would already have been installed so when i next booted it i would get the latest version of everything automatically.
I was able to strip out useless software from my machine, so the number and frequency of updates was reduced.
Nowadays you can even patch the kernel without rebooting...
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Yes and thank god, viruses and trojans are a thing of the past. There are no ransomware trojans spreading like wildfire today, and people can merrily use their computers without antivirus, knowing that their operating system is impervious to any harm.
Right?
Thanks MS! For that security, we gladly throw away productivity!
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Everyone who was tired of getting slammed with the BLASTER worm, with Nimda, or with the Melissa virus, requested that Windows be more secure. Everyone who fell victim to a buffer overflow, or privilege escalation DEMANDED that it be mitigated. Companies who had windows systems connected to the internet ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED that the propagation of worms not be allowed to continue.
Cool story, Bro!
I'm sorry you don't enjoy working with a computer anymore. Did you enjoy it when those above mentioned viruses were running rampant? Which would you rather have, constant attacks from internet zombies, or a small time of inactivity while your OS is being patched?
I enjoy using a computer very much. But my OSX and Linux computers don't seem to have the same problems my Windows machines have. You've just had those problems for so long that you've become acclimated to them, expect them, and have suffered Stockholm syndrome.
Actively getting rid of ways... (Score:2)
But if Microsoft has begun "actively getting rid of ways to keep users from disabling automatic updates", that's a good thing, right?
Automatic updates are bad
Being able to disable them is good
Keeping users from disabling them is bad
So getting rid of ways to keep users from disabling automatic updates is good.
Right? Or am I off by one here?
Wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
No. You're just using the wrong Personal Computer operating system.
Neither linux or OS X / MacOS will force you to update.
The more you support companies that abuse you, the more you will be abused. This is not rocket science, and if your job does not force you to use the Windows OS, you are not locked in to Microsoft, no matter what else makes you think you are. You can make a fresh start any time you like. linux is free. OS X comes with a dongle (you know, the one called "a computer.") Both make Windows looks like the garbage it is.
Or, you can continue being abused. The rest of us will just watch in amazement.
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Don't go giving Lennart Poettering ideas about what to do when systemd's finished.
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No. You're just using the wrong Personal Computer operating system.
Neither linux or OS X / MacOS will force you to update.
Just a little checkbox or notification that an update is available, that I install at my convenience. My convenience is usually a week or two after the update is available, just to make sure. Then again, updates pooching my computers is a Windows phenomenon, so I could do it immediately
You can make a fresh start any time you like. linux is free.OS X comes with a dongle (you know, the one called "a computer.") Both make Windows looks like the garbage it is.
Or, you can continue being abused. The rest of us will just watch in amazement.
Its a combination of Stockholm syndrome and Ford Versus Chevy syndrome.
Re: Wrong (Score:2, Informative)
Then run it in a Windows VM under Linux, and at least you'll be able to carry on with other work while the VM is updating and rebooting.
Options (Score:5, Interesting)
Forced outside of work? That's... interesting. I wonder who is forcing you? Perhaps you should call the authorities.
This may help:
1: Parallels or VWWare or some other similar solution
2: Once Windows is installed in the VM, turn off the VM's network access, or use a firewall to prevent it from getting to Microsoft unless you say "ok". One such product (for the Mac, at least) is "Little Snitch"; when (whatever) tries to get to (wherever) you can catch it in a dialog and say yes or no or allow till reboot or forever, etc., while choosing "all connections" or "only this connection". It's very useful to control wayward software. Like Windows.
And if you want to let Windows out of its cage, you can, and you can still do real work on the Mac, as it's not crippled by whatever Windows malfuckery is going on in the VM.
Well, if it makes you feel any better, the reason I'm smug is because I have this all handled. I never let Windows out of its little sandbox, since it isn't housebroken. :)
All OSs have their problems. (Score:3)
Of course all operating system have their own problems. As a user of all three operating systems, I can quote you chapter and verse. Yanking the computer right out from under you while you're working without giving you any choice in the matter, however, is as far as I know, a unique vacation benefit of Windows.
Having said that all operating systems have their problems, OS X is the one that has gotten in my way the least -- and I'm not just a user, I'm also a developer that writes code for all three platform
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(sigh) Not and option for all of us you smug dink. Lots of us are forced to use software not available on Linux or even OS X.
So you Windows folk then brag about how great Windows is. Stockholm syndrome
Re:Wrong (Score:5, Informative)
not true, my iphone updates itself without my consent now, and changes the UI whenever Apple wants.
Alternate truths, eh? I've used iphones for 5+ years now, and have to approve every update.
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Here's a good list: http://without-systemd.org/wik... [without-systemd.org]
BTW, I'm not talking about business use. Businesses have options to mitigate this update problem while staying with Windows 10 (albeit they aren't cheap).
Re:Using a computer has become a minefield. (Score:4, Informative)
Wow, all this Sturm and Drang about a company screwing over its customers. Didn't you read the license agreements? ?
The PC revolution is going fine, thank you. It's called "Linux". And YES, it works FINE on the desktop as soon as you realize that you CAN find effective and useful alternatives to all those "Windows-specific" applications.
Can't say you weren't warned. (Score:5, Interesting)
From an article 10 months ago.
https://tech.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
by marked on 07:47 PM May 4th, 2016 (#52047825) Attached to: Windows 10 Updates Are Now Ruining Pro-Gaming Streams
As a somewhat hardened veteran of software installation, and the unbounded stupidity that arises from boneheaded mistakes that occur, I would like to point out the following:
Windows 10 Update installation does not follow the guidelines for updating as explicitly laid out in your software, that is "we will update when you are not using the computer". To help matters further, we will specifically exclude during the following hours "8am to 5:30pm".
So WHY THE FUCK WAS THERE AN UNCONTROLLED INSTALLATION OF AN OS UPDATE AT 4PM TODAY DURING THE TIME I WAS ACTIVELY USING THE SYSTEM? And when I say uncontrolled, it was not "oh click later to install, it was "we are rebooting now to install, OK". No deferral, no postponement, just instant notice.
Not to mention that the reboot occurred during a very intense multiplayer fight that I was the host of, which effectively drop-kicked several players out into the ether without me being able to contact them to let them know what was going on.
Did you mean 8am - to 5:30pm my local time, or that of the Microsoft HQ, in sunny whereever? It is bad enough that games developers can't actually remember how many days there are in April, yet to fuck up simple time management for updating has to be some fairly serious mismanagement on the part of senior design leads.
Or could it be that it completely ignores it like the boneheaded mechanism that only allows 10hour "active" windows slot, because there is no possible reason why people at home could not be using it from 7 in the morning until midnight? or am I completely in the dark about usability that requires a 14 hour window to update on a daily basis?
Of course to further the boneheaded-ness it completely fucked the graphics drivers, where it greenscreened just at idle on the desktop - to the point I had to continuously reboot until I could get to the stage where I could get a CMD prompt up and manage to type "shutdown /o /r /t 1" to get a relatively swift reboot into a mode where I say yes, I want to run a troubleshooting step, and reboot, and then select safe mode, and then reboot into it.
Not to mention that it has been a known problem with the graphics drivers since the last update, and putting it down to "it is the responsibility of the driver manufacturers (Microsoft Engineer)" is disingenuous at best, as MS is supposed to have WHQL'd the drivers, which means that MS should have caught this problem much earlier in testing during the automated build and test phase.
To top that then off, I can't run Microsoft EDGE because the "built in administrator account can't run it".... I can't run explorer because you've managed to switch of the command searching in the cortana interface, which means that I can't run taskmanager, command, etc. What stupidity of a design decision managed to get authorised to create this situation?
The insider fast ring is supposed to be a way to bring light problems that exist in interaction with components. Fucking with AMD graphics drivers in this way isn't an acceptable manner of implementing software best practices.
Now I have to spend an hour fucking around with Device driver uninstaller, because in the infinite wisdom, you've managed to disable any ability of the driver software to recognise that there is an installed device, so of course the programs bomb out with a "no recognised device" so we won't do anything remotely sensible like uninstall the graphics drivers. Then I have to spend an hour waiting whilst I roll back the installation, then reinstall drivers, then reboot, reset up profiles, and ... then reboot again. That is a considerable amount of unnecessary reboots as you rush to get untested, useless additions out into the population.
Yours,
Entirely Hacked Off
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The only thing I have to say in followup is that Microsoft have made an improvement - Active hours have been extended to 18 hours (ie. I can set it from 11pm to 7am now) and miraculously have learned to actually use this time. Congratulations MS, slow-clap.
And it has now worsened - prior to build 15002 the fast ring would allow you to defer the updates NOTIFIYING YOU that there was one available. Now you wake up in the morning to find, that yes, the computer has rebooted during the night and now you have to
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To top that then off, I can't run Microsoft EDGE because the "built in administrator account can't run it"....
Wait... You are running a browser as root?!
Consumer versus corporatetems maintenance for you. (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as I'm aware the difference is that with the retail version, Miscrosoft takes the view that it has to perform system maintenance (like updates) for you. As part of what you buy. Of course, in such a setting it makes no sense to allow the end-user to postpone updates or any other systems maintenance. Microsoft might get sued if it doesn't patch certain vulnerabilities in time, so it can't have end-users interfering with its maintenance work. That's a conscious decision on Microsoft's part.
With the corporate edition (as far as I'm aware) the IT department is in control, and IT (no pun intended) determines what when where and how updates will take place. Not you (the end user). Not Microsoft. The company IT department. Of course, the average IT department will honour requests that it should not interrupt ongoing work by users ... so it may offer them the standard option to delay updates (for at most 48 hours or so). Servers and such are under even tighter control by IT. Simply because most corporations will not accept anything less. Their interest in continuity of production is paramount and they have the means and the incentive to enforce their preferences. Most private customers don't.
What this illustrates is a shift from the classic "I own it so I control it" idea to the "you're buying a service from us and we'll license you our software to deliver it - just don't get any funny notions about ownership" idea.
It all depends on what packge you buy how you're treated. Buy a consumer grade package, get consumer grade treatment. You're lucky they don't display adds (yet) while updating and then require you to press a button every minute (or they'll stop the updating process until you do).
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft might get sued if it doesn't patch certain vulnerabilities in time, so it can't have end-users interfering with its maintenance work.
[citation needed]
We have decades of history from Microsoft and the software industry as a whole and indeed product liability in general, has anyone ever been successfully sued for failing to enforce a patch, fix or recall on someone else's property after the user has been notified and has delayed, refused or ignored it? If I refuse to hand over my Samsung Note 7 it's not like Samsung can send a SWAT team to collect it. It's not like Ford can go impound cars that have ignored a recall. I can't think of any l
Re: (Score:2)
The setting is adjustable and Windows does in fact obey it. You can custom set your own active time (your own timezone), and on top of that specify the exact reboot time.
But then you're trying to run a Microsoft browser with administrator privileges so I don't really peg you for a clever user.
Re: (Score:2)
> The setting is adjustable
No, it DIDN'T.
> and Windows does in fact obey it.
No, it DIDN'T
>You can custom set your own active time (your own timezone), and on top of that specify the exact reboot time.
You can NOW. You couldn't THEN.
Do you want to try and be a little more condescending? possibly with the ability to have some accuracy in what you are talking about?
Or would you like to try some COMPREHENSION first, or is that civility a bit beyond you?
> But then you're trying to run a Microsoft brow
Re: (Score:2)
Do you want to try and be a little more condescending?
Sure. Combined with the fact you're logged in as an administrator you also think people will listen to you more if YOU randomise random WORDS, so you're not much of a communicator either.
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I still use Windows... (Score:5, Interesting)
Because games run on it. If the games I wanted to play worked on Linux, I would be using it exclusively.
I had a forced restart and I promptly did registry edits and installed Ubuntu. Now I do all my work in Linux, and the only thing Windows could possibly do is kick me out of some online game. It's like they want people who like their platform to switch.
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If you really must play games on a computer (why?) is there anything stopping you using one computer for games and another for work?
Re: (Score:2)
It seems he is using the same computer for both.
To me it reads like he has a dual boot.
No need to have 2 computers, when you can have multiple operation systems installed on the same computer.
Interrupts music or group chat (Score:3)
Except switching operating systems shuts down all background services. You can't keep, say, music or group chat going during a reboot, especially because Windows games want to run on a copy of Windows installed on bare metal rather than in VirtualBox. And how does one sync browser tabs between operating systems in a dual boot configuration, including form contents that have been entered but not yet submitted?
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Re: I still use Windows... (Score:2)
This. I only use Windows for three things: gaming, the few times a year I have to use some Adobe product, and the few times a year LibreOffice cannot make sense of some xlsx or docx mess that I've been sent.
Sadly, Windows is still firmly entrenched in companies. This is unlikely to change any time soon.
PS4 Xbox One Switch (Score:2)
These all run games too
Re: (Score:3)
I had the same issue as you. I ended up choosing against the pain.
Of my ~360 Steam games at the time, only roughly 170 were working on Linux, a few more with Wine. Of course the 30 games I bought since are working fine : the more of us are switching, the faster the editors will follow.
Wine should be the next most important project for gamers on Linux.
You can already have the Witcher 3 menu working now [winehq.org] which I find amazing, alas not the game itself (deferred shading support issue I think).
Re: (Score:2)
DX12 is mostly just there to keep Microsoft from falling behind Vulkan, and maybe also for some of that tasty incompatibility that they love so much. Expecting Wine to keep pace with Windows- when Microsoft has money to fuck with that whole thing- is not very great.
Linux of course supports all the latest and greatest cards, if the dev can be arsed to actually develop for it. Meanwhile, you can't play any Linux native games in Windows at all. Come on Windows, what's taking so long!
Processes hanging before updates (Score:2)
The timings of the updates are only part of it. I'm running linux at home, but previously used Windows 7 and still do at work. When an update is due, Windows goes all wobbly. Last week's update, which didn't reboot, left me unable to connect to the interweb due to a 'socket error'. Updated, rebooted and all fine.
Now this could be good ol' coincidence, but it follows on from years of similar flaky performance when delaying an update. Not all of them, but plenty enough to plot on a graph and have confide
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All that you write is correct.
My complaint really was that if even if it doesn't 'update' (i.e. automatically reboot), the upcoming change makes itself so unstable that it has to be updated, as the OS is now not functioning correctly. You'd think that when it asked you when you wanted updates not to occur, instability caused by the binary clashes would be part of that choice, not just an afterthought.
What else do you expect from the new MS? (Score:5, Informative)
I've seen Windows 10 updates make a computer unusable for hours, particularly for any application where a bit of processing power it needed. Forcing actions that interfere with the owner's use of a computer is another malware trait to add to the adware and spyware that MS bundled with Win 10. It is hard to believe that MS is actually getting away with this sort of behaviour. There are real consequences for Windows users, particularly those in small business that rely on MS products to operate their business but are too small to have the extra control that MS might allow large companies.
Problems with Windows are only going to get worse. Many businesses are unwilling to give up Win 7 and put up with the shit that MS is trying to force on them with Win 10. The same customers mostly avoided Win 8 so are using a OS that MS will abandon, without supplying a functional replacement. MS seems to be completely lost and confused, with an attitude of refusing to give customers what they want but still expecting them to buy their crap.
If Linux companies are smart about this, there could be a huge jump in Linux adoption that convinces more software companies to port their products to Linux. Time will tell. I know from personal experience that it has been very easy to get Win 10 users ready to try Linux.
Windows is losing relevancy as the shift to mobile devices continues and many people no longer need a desktop OS. A sign of just how significant this has become is MS releasing several products onto Android. There are an increasing number of large developers that have little interest in Windows, preferring to focus on other platforms. If MS loses their near monopoly of the desktop OS market, their whole world could come crashing down very quickly.
Re:What else do you expect from the new MS? (Score:4, Insightful)
Behind all the details, surely there is an important question of principle here. Does your computer belong to (a) you; or (b) the manufacturer who sold it to you; or (c) the manufacturer of the software you are using?
I very much prefer option (a).
How to stop Win10's update auto-reboot (Score:3, Informative)
First, we need to disable the mechanism that actually performs the automatic reboot after installing updates...
-Open Task Scheduler (Start, type "Task" and it'll appear in the results)
-Expand Task Scheduler Library>Microsoft>Windows>WindowsUpdate
-Delete the "Reboot" task
The task that performs the reboot is now gone, but we're not done yet.
Next, we need to prevent Windows from re-creating the automatic reboot task, which has reportedly happened spontaneously on some computers, most often during build upgrades...
-Hit WinKey+R and enter %systemroot%\System32\Tasks\Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestrator to open that folder
-Delete the file named "Reboot"
-Create a new FOLDER named "Reboot"
Since a folder named Reboot now exists, Windows won't be able to re-create the task file named Reboot.
As I said, doing this has worked for me for several months now, but of course YMMV applies here, especially if Microsoft ever decides to surreptitiously find a way to work around our attempts to take back ownership of our computers and crush us underfoot even harder for daring to defy them.
Re: (Score:2)
I've asked this before - I don't (I refuse to) have a W10 machine to test it on - but has anyone tried a shutdown abort as a scheduled task, i.e.
add a scheduled task to run every 10 or 20 seconds, running this command: shutdown -a
Re: (Score:2)
Or a scheduled task (running every 10 seconds) using a powershell script to delete that "reboot" scheduled task?
It might sound stupid to have scheduled tasks fighting other scheduled tasks, but if MS supplies the tools, why not use them?
Is it really that bad? (Score:3)
Please excuse my ignorance, but I really only use macOS and Linux on the server. So when you get updates, macOS will display a prompt:\
Update available
[now] [tonight] [ask tomorrow]
I can't imagine that Windows FORCES you to stop your work right there and then, with no way to delay it. Is that really so?
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly. Now sit back and wait for the tidal wave of replies consisting essentially of: "yes, BUT..."
Re: (Score:2)
I can't imagine that Windows FORCES you to stop your work right there and then, with no way to delay it. Is that really so?
No it's not.
Windows gives you a choice of hours where it won't ever reboot for updates.
Windows gives you the choice to specify the exact time to reboot for updates.
When that time comes windows gives you the choice to delay.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I could guess... Windows is extremely bad at having newly appearing windows and dialogs steal keyboard focus from whatever you're working on. Dollars to donuts a lot of these people were in the middle of typing somethi
One of the remaining bad points of Windows (Score:3)
CNET. Timely as ever? (Score:4, Insightful)
An article about a problem that has existed for years as if it's a big deal recently. Why would I follow this link unless I just wanted to hear more salty MS tears?
Two words: (Score:2)
What's the problem? I've never run into it. And I hated the idea of moving to Windows 10.
For those too lazy to use Google (Score:3, Insightful)
1. make sure you have the "Pro" version of Windows 10
2. type in "gpedit.msc" into your start menu bar and hit return
3. you should now have a window called "Local Group Policy Editor"
4. drill down into Computer Configuration\Administrative Templates\Windows Components\Windows Update
5. Double click the "Configure Automatic Updates" setting
6. Select "Enabled" to state that you want to specify / override this setting
7. In the bit on the bottom left change this to "2 - Notify for download and notify for install", this should prevent the updates from kicking in without intervention
8. Click Okay and close the policy window
You can now ignore the updates or install them whenever you want
I swear to god some people are just so lazy they have to bitch and moan about everything
Re: (Score:2)
1. make sure you have the "Pro" version of Windows 10
And what happens if you have the Home or OEM version of windows 10? You know, the one most people get when they get a new computer? Or when they accidentally "upgrade" from Windows 7, 8 or 8.1? That's right, they can't change the group policies!
Re: (Score:2)
One way is to enable "metered connection" on the network connection
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how... [pcadvisor.co.uk]
that's probably the simplest way
Another way
https://4sysops.com/archives/d... [4sysops.com]
dump the following into a .reg file and run it
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\AU]
"NoAutoUpdate"=dword:00000001
I just have no more sympathy (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows users will put up with ANYTHING. They'll bitch and moan, but they'll never change anything. A small number will switch to Macs, which are expensive, but actually still behave like computers. As punishment, they'll have to deal with all the programs that are Windows only, of which there's usually one that just won't work right on a Mac to bother everyone. An even smaller number will switch to Linux, which can be a hassle, and has quite a few programs whose programmers are absolutely dedicated to the cause of preventing them from running on Linux.
But it is this absolute unwillingness to switch which has empowered Microsoft to be so shit in the first place. And of course, you CAN disable Windows updates if you are smart enough and desperate enough- even if you run out of ways (and Microsoft has nuked plenty of them), you can always block the bastards at the router. That escape hatch keeps enough of the top tier techies willing to put up with Windows on their personal machines.
Windows 10 is an absolute shitshow. And every Windows 10 user deserves every shitty minute.
Re: (Score:2)
I really doubt many people stick with Microsoft because of the brand or that they're fans. If they haven't switched it's because the alternatives haven't been viable. The way Apple are treating their Macs right now I wouldn't buy. As for Linux I've done that switch and used it as my primary desktop (2007-2010) but just the running annoyances were enough that I gave up after years of hoping the next release would finally be the one to shave off the rough edges. I did give it a go in a VM a little while ago b
Re: (Score:2)
the biggest whiners are the clueless idiots, its seriously not even a problem if one is a classicly trained "save your fucking shit before you leave" computer user, instead of one of these ranting baffons, ya know the same fuckwits that never let the screen of their I phone turn off
This is not a big deal and is easily turned off. (Score:2, Informative)
Hello,
I guess it was a slow day at CBS Interactive's CNet web site, or perhaps they are not very familiar with using Windows. This behavior can easily be disabled by a simple registry tweak. Here's a .REG file which does exactly that:
If you would rather script it using a .CMD file, that's easy enough, too. You can even do it in one line:
Re:This is not a big deal and is easily turned off (Score:5, Informative)
The long goodbye (Score:3)
I am beginning to wonder is MSFT is actively trying to kill off the Windows platform. Certainly, none of their recent actions make me in any way doubt my choice to go nowhere near it for serious computing. They're either betting on something being a bigger revenue stream, such as a cloudy OS, or they're (by "they're" I mean the SatNad) incredibly stupid. Either way, their statement that Windows 10 will be the last Windows you will ever buy was probably very true for a significant number of people, organisations and public sector bodies.
GNU/Linux Uptime (Score:3)
Professional version for professional usage (Score:2)
If you have the professional version windows will ask if you want to reboot and you can delay it and then keep delaying it for as long as you want. If I am in the middle of something I will normally tell it to delay for 4 hours and the system already does not check for updates at all during the normal working hours I set.
All of these issues I have run into are people using the home version for work. You can do this but it does come with drawbacks as a result.
Working hours setting. (Score:4, Insightful)
No dice, starting hour can not be later than earlier hour! It would not let me set it up this way. I could force the winodws update to a narrow window between midnitght and 3 AM.
It clearly shows how badly the managers and UI guys in Microsoft think. Why call it working hours? Allow me to specify update hours. Why just one block of time? Why can't you show me a check boxes in 3 hour blocks and let me pick a block to update?.
The will help people working at odd hours, working on split shifts, etc. I am sure the idea, suggestions and counter proposals came up. Still MS did it in this brain dead way because, it wants to balance the load on its servers. If it gives "too much" freedom everybody will choose 3AM to 6AM block and so to reduce the load on its servers, it deliberately decided to serve about 80% of the user base to reduce complaints.
Darn, moving to Linux in 2020 (Score:2)
Bill'em (Score:2)
Gather the hours that the reboot cost you in time. Apply you standard consultant rate for your field. That's how much money the update is worth to you. Bill Microsoft or take them to small claims court. If they don't send a representative, they will lose. Then send them the requirement that they for the judgement. If enough people do this, then they will stop behaving this way. It's death by a million cuts. The time and effort it takes to deal with each tiny lawsuit against them for taking over your
Their biggest mistake? It's one point oh not TEN (Score:2)
And MS is new to this. They have released a version of their long awaited Windows, and being extra careful, they want to make sure that when 1-dot-oh hits the streets, and boots itself in your sleep, you will wake up and find your coffee and PC ready and waiting for you to start.
What do you mean it's TEN? Oh, wait...
(Head quietly explodes)
Automatic updates are good, just need fine tuning (Score:2)
From a personal point of view, I think automatic updates are all well and good. If it keeps the teeming masses of non-tech people up to date on their software patches, I think that reduces the risks for us all, kind of like vaccinations.
What we do need, however, is better control over it.
For instance, I note that I can set "active hours" on windows update that it won't do updates from such to such time. This is good, in theory, but it isn't flexible enough, because it has a hard limit of a 12h span. As some
You know what to do (nt) (Score:2)
no text
Not So Good For 3D Printing and Mission Critical (Score:4, Informative)
There are times that users just can't have resource grabbing happen, such as 3D printing. The latency from even checking for updates, can ruin a studio recording. Windows 10 rebooting options are poorly thought out. What if you cannot have your computer reboot anytime in the near future?
Use your router to blacklist Microsoft sites (Score:3)
If you need your Windows 10 computer to not update for a period of time, you may have to log in to your router and blacklist all Microsoft sites. When you are done work, you can log in again and allow your network to reach them again.
Re: (Score:3)
"all microsoft sites" is quite the confusing list you know. I'd like to see what your idea of that list is...
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
That's a great point, if this same professor has railed against other operating systems that don't force automatic updates, like Linux or OS X. If he hasn't done that, then you've got a non sequitur.
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Informative)
BS!
If anyone from MS is reading these comments let me give the parent poster and my opinion on this. Since you feel you need to make Windows a cell phone and cell phones automatically receive updates, I say to hell with the update due to using the wrong implementation!
I own a Google phone. A nexus 6P which ALWAYS gets updates! Do I loose calls? No. Does my phone ever randomly restart? No. Does it get malware? No.
Here is how everyone else on the planet handles updates. We have this thing called a notification. You should analyze your competitors more? I get a widget alert silently for about a week. Then it eventually turns to a notification about an update. Last it gives me amonth before it even offers a schedule to update. After 3 months it installs when I reboot my phone.
Why is this so hard MS? Also why can't you patch a live system like Oracle Linux or Red hat? You could greatly reduce the need to reboot while keeping your users secure. Last, you think the XP apocalypse was bad with stubborn older users afraid of change refusing to upgrade? Ha!
Keep up this shit and everyone will keep using 7 forever after 2020!! Gee why is Windows 10 adoption slow after the forced upgrades? Perhaps it's because of things like this that scare people.
People use PCs for work. ANY interrupted update IS UnACCEPTABLE PERIOD! Some feel getting malware once or twice a year is preferable with less downtime than getting hit once or twice a month scaringly
Re: (Score:2)
That's kind of their problem, MS won't acknowledge that any competition exists... They do everything their own way, and others are forced to comply.
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BS!
If anyone from MS is reading these comments let me give the parent poster and my opinion on this. Since you feel you need to make Windows a cell phone and cell phones automatically receive updates, I say to hell with the update due to using the wrong implementation!
I own a Google phone. A nexus 6P which ALWAYS gets updates! Do I loose calls? No. Does my phone ever randomly restart? No. Does it get malware? No.
The problem is that since most of the world uses Windows phones, there are more viruses and malware written for Windows phones.
oh........wait.......
Re: (Score:2)
I cannot remember anyone asking for that. The closest any demand came to was to make an OS either update itself automatically or let the user take responsibility for its actions.
Either way, I highly doubt anyone thought that it's a good idea that an OS decides when it's time to shut down your PC forcefully.
Re: (Score:3)
The same professor in a world where Microsoft doesn't force updates: "Microsoft's continued refusal to automatically update users computers has put the entire industry at risk from hackers and viruses! Users are clueless drones who don't know to keep their computers updated and Microsoft should do it for them!"
I thought that Mac users were the clueless noobs, and Windows users were smart consumers, making th ecorrect decision on what computer to buy after performing research.
Yet we on MacOS and Linux choose when to make the update. And despite Windows zealot protests, there are enough Unix and Unix-like machines out there to provide a fine attack surface.
Because there is another issue at play here.
Possibly the biggest reason people avoid Windows updates is not because they want to make their machine unsa
Re: (Score:2)
Is Non-Consensual Windows Updates like Non-Consensual sex?
Unfortunately no, because you will find you have signed a contract consenting to more or less anything the vendor chooses to do to you. Not only can it have normal vanilla sex with you whenever it wants - it can practice any perversions that take its fancy. And you are legally obliged to cooperate fully.
Re:first (Score:5, Funny)
thank god Windows didn't reboot while you were typing that. you lucky dog.
They're noticing this NOW? (Score:2)
Unless the contributor is just noticing this now, this issue has been there since Windows 10 was out. What took him so long to condemn it?
Initially, this would happen every day when Windows 10 was just out. I had that issue at the time: I was in insurance sales at the time and had an application that would have the forms of people that would be missing one detail or another. It depended on remaining open and updated the next day, but Windows 10 would do a reset and I'd lose the application. Happene
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: They're noticing this NOW? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, jackoff, it's my fault I had to leave Mathematica running for a day or two on a non-trivial problem.
This tells me that all of your work IS trivial.
Re: They're noticing this NOW? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you really arguing that Windows 10 has made people's computers so unreliable that using the cloud is considered to be the fix? That just reinforces the point that Windows 10 is broken for serious computing..
Re:They're noticing this NOW? (Score:5, Interesting)
I am a graphics artist. I often have to leave my computer running for hours or days on end when I am rendering something.
What "workflow" would you suggest I take up to make things more convenient for my operating system? You know, because I am at the beck and call of my computer instead of the other way around.
Re: (Score:3)
I have been using this great OS called Windows 7. It does what I want when I want it to...
You mean, Windows 7 is not a blatantly oppressive as Windows 10, but it is still oppressive. You seem to have put things out of your mind, like activation codes and prostrating yourself to plead for a new activation code after Windows 7 decided to become "non-genuine" and the countless other little cuts and humiliations that define the life of a Windows user. Microsoft is just turning the screws harder, it's not like that dungeon ever was a fun place to be.
Re: (Score:2)
Same, and it's annoying as all hell. With every Windows version it gets more and more convoluted to get things done, mostly because the OS keeps getting more and more complicated to work around.
Re:Incompetent Computer Users hate Automatic Updat (Score:5, Insightful)
He went to an important event where he needed 100% up-time in a public place that he most doubtfully was on a 3rd party wireless network and he made no effort to make sure his computer was up to date before hand.
Have you actually used a computer? You seem to have reality entirely back-to-front.
Updating your OS or other key software just before an important event or deadline is the stupid move here. Once in a blue moon, there's a major vulnerability of the "instant remote pwnage" variety that might justify dropping everything and patching, but for the vast majority of updates, the risk of the update process going wrong, or the update breaking or changing something exceeds any risk from running unpatched. Auto update - even automatic checking for updates - became an abomination as soon as it was used for anything other than the highest-priority critical security updates. Update your software when it has a bug or vulnerability that affects you. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Patch during quiet periods.
If your "security policy" is causing downtime or data loss then you've got your risk assessment all screwed up.