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Cloud Operating Systems Windows Microsoft Software Technology

Tim Sweeney Dislikes Windows 10 Cloud Rumors, Calls OS 'Crush Steam Edition' (arstechnica.com) 183

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: The rumor that Microsoft is building a version of Windows 10 that can only install apps from the Windows Store has drawn criticism before it's even official. Epic Games founder Tim Sweeney took to Twitter to attack the operating system. Although its real name is named Windows 10 Cloud, he's dubbing it "Windows 10 Crush Steam Edition." Sweeney is convinced that Microsoft wants to exercise total control over the Windows platform and destroy Valve's Steam. Last year, Sweeney attacked the Universal Windows Platform API. He claimed (incorrectly) that third-party stores such as Steam would be unable to sell and distribute UWP games, leaving them at a disadvantage relative to Microsoft's own store. He followed this statement with the claim that Microsoft would systematically modify Windows so as to make Steam work worse and worse, such that gamers grow tired of it and switch to the Windows Store. In his tweets, Sweeney recognizes that Microsoft wants to compete with Chrome OS. But he fails to understand what the company must do to actually offer that competition. He wrote that "it's great for Microsoft to compete with ChromeOS, but NOT BY LOCKING OUT COMPETING WINDOWS SOFTWARE STORES." This statement represents a failure to understand that "locking out competing Windows software stores" is, for this market, positively desirable. It's fundamental to preventing the hard-to-support free-for-all that a Windows system would otherwise represent. A later tweet does recognize the value of this lockdown, but Sweeney says that Windows 10's "great admin features to limit user software installs" should be used instead. This again suggests a misunderstanding of the target market: systems will be used with little to no supervision and with little to no administrative oversight. To compete against the Chromebook, Windows 10 Cloud needs to be locked down by default, and it must not offer any ready way to disable that lockdown. In his complaints, Sweeney also fails to consider what happens should the Chromebook threat go unaddressed: Chromebooks running Chrome OS will proliferate. These machines will not support third-party stores, they will not support Steam, and they will not support PC games at all. Sweeney may not want Microsoft to build this world, but even if Microsoft doesn't create it, Google already is doing so.
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Tim Sweeney Dislikes Windows 10 Cloud Rumors, Calls OS 'Crush Steam Edition'

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  • Remember, kids (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @06:48PM (#53784763)

    Windows ain't done until Steam won't run!

    • Re:Remember, kids (Score:5, Interesting)

      by PPH ( 736903 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @06:57PM (#53784817)

      "DOS isn't done until Lotus won't run."

      It's been that way since the beginning. VCs (with the guts to risk pissing off the Monster from Redmond) would often ask a start-up what their contingency plans were in the event Microsoft would cripple their app. Or offer their own 'free' version bundled with the OS.

      To be fair; this isn't about Microsoft killing Steam. It's probably more like selling it through the Windows Store. "You wanna do business in my town? You gotta give me a piece of da' action, see?"

      • by Anonymous Coward

        After decades I have yet to see proof Microsoft actually did any of this.

        And Lotus 123 ran just fine with every machine on which I used it.

        Sweeney is full of it as are most MS haters.

        • by darkain ( 749283 )

          You must be living under a rock then, anon.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org].

          • by jeremyp ( 130771 )

            That doesn't support your case at all. There's only one mention of Lotus on the page and it has nothing to do with crippling Lotus 123 from a technical point of view.

            In fact, Lotus did it to themselves by failing to provide Win32 versions of their applications in a timely fashion.

            • Win32? What's that have to do with DOS? This happened in the 80s. Through at least the early 90s, when MS released a new product competing products were likely to start having 'issues'... like clockwork...

              As I recall it was discovery in the Comes case vs MS that proved it. They'd had meetings to brainstorm ways to make competing software have continuous 'difficulties'. Through the 80s MS hadn't updated their operating system. Dos 3.3 needed all sort of helper software to be able to function with a networ
      • To be fair; this isn't about Microsoft killing Steam. It's probably more like selling it through the Windows Store.

        So, killing Steam then? Because selling an app store in an app store doesn't make any goddamn sense.

        (Not that killing Steam is a bad thing, mind you -- all DRM'd app stores are evil, including third-party ones.)

    • This is true (Score:5, Interesting)

      by waspleg ( 316038 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @09:06PM (#53785491) Journal

      for the moment. My percentage of games that will run under Linux is (very) slowly but steadily increasing.

    • Except this doesn't have a damned thing to do with desktops or Steam, this is MSFT's answer to ChromeOS.

      Google has been eating MSFT's lunch in the education center because having a system that is locked down, doesn't allow the user to install programs except from a third party controlled appstore, and is trivial to restore back to original state if things go wrong? Is VERY appealing when you are dealing with a bunch of kids that don't know shit and will install any crap app that promises them some game.


  • by Notabadguy ( 961343 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @06:53PM (#53784787)

    What kind of hack news site PICKS UP AN UNFOUNDED RUMOR...then runs a story on the unfounded rumor just to discredit the author of the rumor based on previous rumors.

    What..the fuck kind of news for nerds is this gossipy whining?

    • by Anonymous Coward

      It's the kind that you love so much that you registered an account and posted on the articles you hate, for YEARS, only ever contributing to /. ad revenue in the process.

      Complain all you want, until you take your business elsewhere, you're part of the problem too.

    • It's this BeauHD guy who posts crap like this to *BOTH* sites, and somehow the staff on each just let it happen (For the record, SN is probably a bit more friendly to the conservative crowd (outside a few LGBT/SJW types) than slash nowadays, but similiarly containing of sensationalistic crap from serial posters like BeauHD.

      It's like Roland Paqpiquille(sp) and company all over again!

    • by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @07:56PM (#53785131) Journal

      What..the fuck kind of news for nerds is this gossipy whining?

      This site hasn't called itself "News for Nerds" in quite a few years now. [alistapart.com] Just look around and try to find that tag-line... It's long gone.

      It's been one non-stop decline ever since the "Politics" section was created. First Sourceforge, then Dice, and now BizX have had no interest in the site's origins or credibility, and are only interested in the large audience they can abuse to drive-up ad impressions. Even clicking through to complain about what a shithole this place has become, is PROFIT for them, so they will keep it up. The trolls are profit, the paid shills are profit, the flood of crap on the front-page that has people yelling at their screen is profit for them. And that's the only thing they care about.

      Sure the audience has continued declining, sure this place is a joke, sure in the long-term it's an increasingly less valuable property for the change, but they're going to cash-out as much as they can, as soon as they can, and not worry one bit about the smoldering ruin that's left.

      • by Trogre ( 513942 )

        That's simply not true.

        "News for nerds, stuff that matters" is still there in the title bar on the front page. It just doesn't make part of the logo any more.

    • It's terrible and not competition to Windows!!

      Turn Windows into ChromeOS and chances are I'll make the switch back to Linux.

      Whatever turning Windows into something with Windows store only is enough for that .. Maybe. I unlikely want to lose all chance to tinker with the main computer so to say.

      The openness of the PC is what make it so great. Talk all you want about closed source OS but the platform has been pretty accessible anyway... at-least relative what one could imagine by now ...

      "The Sony home-compute

    • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

      This is the kind of news people are forced to resort to, when corporations like M$ a lying pieces of shite. Lie, lie, lie, it's all they do, they are disgusting. Now they biggest lie of all, they have the right to install software on the computer that you bought, that you paud of the OS, against you will, against your rights, what a crock of shite. Basically screw M$ and it blatantly corrupt theft of user rights, it is the biggest abuse of the public by any corporation in history and being backed up by a co

    • Remember, #FakeNews is only Fake News if it comes from a conservative paper. Everyone else has a completely spotless record!

    • And then what kind of hack creates, and what other kind of hack fails to edit a /. summary that fails to mention a move like MS is making was (according to the article) targeted specifically at the Chrome education sector that desires the ability to lock down devices. That's a very key factor in this discussion that wasnt mentioned by the submitter or caught by the editors.
  • .. they already have "a version of Windows [x] that can only install apps from the [Microsoft] Store" or Microsoft blessed disks and its called the XBOX [insert any version here].

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Well, at least that would pretty much guarantee the year of the Linux desktop.

  • . . . not unlike their somewhat heavy-handed tactics in pushing Windows 10 out (and pushing out updates), this is actually Microsoft's best answer to the perception that their product is buggy and exploit-prone.

    Let's set the wayback machine to the days of XP. Microsoft had to put up with a near-constant stream of complaints that many machines running XP were exploited and buggy. There was a lot of evidence to support this - but in many cases, the bugs and exploits were due to end-users not patching/updat

    • . . . not unlike their somewhat heavy-handed tactics in pushing Windows 10 out (and pushing out updates), this is actually Microsoft's best answer to the perception that their product is buggy and exploit-prone.

      Who gives a shit? I'll take buggy and exploit prone over treating the owner of the goddamn computer as a hostile enemy and/or a slave to be exploited any day!

      Any company who decides their copyright should overrule the device owner's actual property rights must be destroyed for the good of society.

    • But what happens to the "personal" in personal computers? I shuddered 10 years ago when slashdoter LOVED iOS and Android but bashed Windows for control??? Really?!

      With Windows you can at least talk to your hardware and do what you want on it. True it's harder due to security as security and UAC block things but you can work around.

    • by myrdos2 ( 989497 )

      Oh - I'll bet you thought that "My Computer" meant it was yours.

      It does.

      The hardware is yours, the data arguably so.

      The data is also mine. Who are these people arguing otherwise?

      Licensed software is not yours - you just have permission to use it.

      Sad but true. I have never seen such a clear-cut argument as to why operating systems shouldn't be licensed.

      I've sent feedback to Google asking that they restore widget functionality to the app. This is only the most recent example of such activity by Google

  • Windows store is to locked down for games (sandboxing) to work like stream and do they have any thing like the workshop?

  • by NotInHere ( 3654617 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @07:12PM (#53784909)

    You can install Steam OS on Chromebooks, just as you can on Windows machines. Its just the game industry that needs to support Steam OS, and he isn't locked in to Microsoft any more. And no, he won't be locked into Steam OS either, because if they start demanding more, he can just clone Ubuntu himself and distribute his game as OS. As long as new computers will allow free OS choice, there is no problem.

    • You can install Steam OS on Chromebooks

      How so? I thought installing another operating system on a Chromebook was possible only if the firmware is set to developer mode, and if the firmware is set to developer mode, it prompts whoever turns it on to press Space then Enter to wipe everything. Someone who picks up your laptop and turns it on won't know to press Ctrl+D or wait 30 seconds for the beeping to stop waking others sleeping in the same household. Instead, he or she will just do what the screen says, not knowing or not caring about the ensu

      • Interesting, didn't know of this. I've done some reading and apparently there is a "soft" developer mode and a "hard" developer mode. The "soft" developer mode invokes pressing some keys and buttons to install a different OS, the "hard" developer mode involves changing the BIOS write protect flag by turning a screw/setting a jumper and then flashing a new firmware (Chrome OS has open source firmware so this is possible). With hard developer mode I think you can simply edit the firmware source code (if there

        • It's a little complex, but yeah, your choices are:

          - Boot in developer mode, some customization possible but essentially you're stuck in ChromeOS and can easily have your system wiped.
          - Boot in dev mode with a modified BIOS, alternative operating system allowed but in a very user unfriendly way (you need to hit CTRL-L, which isn't documented or shown on screen, to boot the alternative OS, for example.)
          - Boot with the BIOS replaced completely with an open source alternative. This effectively turns it int

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Tim's love and defense for Steam is admirable, but it's hard to take him seriously while he actively develops apps for iOS, which is the ultimate walled garden.

  • If it's running in "the cloud" I doubt people will be playing games on it anyhow. Some things are best done locally with appropriate hardwar.e

  • We get it, you vape.
  • I've been waiting for SteamOS to seriously take off.

    For SteamOS to seriously take off DEVELOPERS HAVE TO EMBRACE LINUX.

    For that to happen they need a good kick in the ass. Microsoft pissing them off would be a good kick in the ass. I haven't had a Windows machine since Win 2000 was still new up until about a month ago. I got tired of waiting for the promised Linux port of Giana Sisters Twisted Dreams, not to mention I'm really looking forward to South Park the Fractured But Whole, both of which are Windows only. I built a Wintendo with a monitor emulator plug so it just sits there and runs steam for Steam Casting to my Linux machine and the Steam Link I picked up for $20.

    • Yeah, if Sweeney hates Windows so much, why doesn't his team put more effort in making Steam OS better? The last time I tried it a few months ago, it was still pretty rough and the game selection was pretty puny.

      • I'm an avid Humble Bundler and I've been a Linux Gamer since my only real option was Quake, Unreal, and whatever Loki ported.

        There is a HUGE and awesome selection of Linux compatible games on Steam.

        Fine, not every AAA title you want is there, in fact being a AAA title tends to reduce the likelihood that it will be available on Linux AKA Steam OS, but the "shotgun buying" approach of the Humble Bundle has gotten me to try a bunch of titles I probably wouldn't have looked at otherwise and I've loved some of t

    • by e r ( 2847683 )
      Take a look at the games that already run on Steam on Linux.
      There's quite a few AAA titles and many B-list titles and many many indie titles.
      Anecdotally, Alien Isolation, Chivalry, XCOM 1 and 2, Total War Empire and Attilla, Rocket League, Metro 2033, and Deus Ex: Human Revolution all run quite well.
      I also play about a dozen indie titles.

      There's literally more games for Linux now than I have the time to play or money to buy and more coming out every week.
      What more could you ask for?
  • Didn't he raise the same fears about Windows 8 RT? Aren't they equally as valid now? Does he really think that the engineers building Windows are primarily focused on destroying Steam?
  • When Windows 11 is released the old release will be called 'Windows 10 Steaming Pile of Crap Edition'.
  • As far as I know, the whole Windows 10 cloud rumors came from a piece of code that indicates that there might be a version of Windows 10 codenamed cloud...
    Anyone that goes as far as assuming and then proceeding to cuss at a company because of speculative information leaked in a piece of code should be looked upon and considered a crazy paranoid maniac. Your agenda is showing Sweeney. Get yourself a better hobby, this one is unhealthy for you.

    The Ars Technica article isn't doing any better on that front too.

  • I guess that makes the non-Cloud version Pound Sand Edition. ;)

  • So -WIndows 10 cloud is about an appliance were the users can't even control which programs to run (previous instances of Windows Stores had virtually no apps) - and you have basically Ars Technica just licking Microsoft boots and endorsing it to very last bit. The only thing left to wonder is how much of Ars Technica revenue comes directly from Microsoft Marketing department.

  • Gabe with Valve warned everyone when Microsoft introduced the windows store that they'd eventually try to kill outside software distribution. It's the entire reason he built SteamOS. Tim and the other game company CEO's happily dissed SteamOS for years.

    Microsoft is going to try to kill outside distribution. They might even succeed.

  • So what does he want? Is he pissed that Microsoft didn't just use Steam instead of the Windows Store?

  • And how exactly does Windows crush steam? Microsoft's strategy appears to be to make the user's computer increasingly inconvenient to use, to the point where even non-technical users are starting to realize that their operating system choice is a problem. In the mean time, steam is adding more and more games for non-windows platform. The only game I'm currently missing, having not booted my computer back to windows for months, is the ability to play a native Linux version of Skyrim. Well, that and having to
  • Really? Are they hard core candy crushers or something? I get that you can play Quake in a browser these days, but do you see any serious gaming happening on a Chromebook?

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