Microsoft Claims Windows 10 Saves Enterprises 28% More Than They Claimed Last Year (computerworld.com) 136
"Microsoft this week boosted by 28% its claim of how much enterprises can save by deploying Windows 10," writes Computerworld. An anonymous reader quotes their report:
The revised estimate came from a Microsoft-commissioned analysis first done in mid-2016 by Forrester Research. Then, Forrester said the per-worker savings over a three-year stretch would be $404. To reach that number, the research firm interviewed four Microsoft customers that had begun moving to Windows 10, then modeled a hypothetical organization with 24,000 Windows devices, and a large number of mobile workers among the 20,000 employees. Using that pretend company, Forrester forecast the difference between running Windows 10 and retaining Windows 7.
Late last year, Forrester interviewed another quartet of Windows early 10 adopters, then added that data to what it had originally. The new per-employee savings: $515 over three years, a jump of almost a third... Forrester's increase in the number of mobile workers -- the total climbed by 460 employees -- was the biggest factor in the changed estimate... The bottom line, said Forrester and Microsoft, was that the migration to Windows 10 would pay for itself -- the breakeven point when savings equal costs -- in 14 months.
The report says IT administrators "estimate a 20% improvement in management time, as Windows 10 requires less IT time to install, manage, and support with in-place deployment and more self-service functions," while because of the OS's security software, "security events requiring IT remediation are reduced or avoided by 33%."
Late last year, Forrester interviewed another quartet of Windows early 10 adopters, then added that data to what it had originally. The new per-employee savings: $515 over three years, a jump of almost a third... Forrester's increase in the number of mobile workers -- the total climbed by 460 employees -- was the biggest factor in the changed estimate... The bottom line, said Forrester and Microsoft, was that the migration to Windows 10 would pay for itself -- the breakeven point when savings equal costs -- in 14 months.
The report says IT administrators "estimate a 20% improvement in management time, as Windows 10 requires less IT time to install, manage, and support with in-place deployment and more self-service functions," while because of the OS's security software, "security events requiring IT remediation are reduced or avoided by 33%."
Our experience with forced driver updates... (Score:5, Funny)
says the exact opposite. Too many of our Dell laptops won't even boot after an update to the video card driver. We disable it, but it just keeps coming back.
Re: Our experience with forced driver updates... (Score:1)
Same here. Windows toc = much higher. Better off with Linux or Mac machines.
CPU (Score:5, Informative)
My tech called me into his office and showed me the performance tab of the task manager.
He had nothing but a PDF open. when he scrolled the PDF, CPU usage went to 120% apparently because the graph went off the scale.
He was unable to complete some assigned training because his Win 10 laptop was too slow.
Re: CPU (Score:3, Funny)
You missed that it's $404.... savings not found error.
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So a bug in the rendering of a PDF viewer is a windows 10 problem.
I'd write a list of times when something similar has happened on every other platform ever but even Slashdot has a word limit in these post boxes (to say nothing of the "lameness filter")
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A bug like that tends to involve the video drivers (hardware acceleration), on almost any other system a privileged user is able to override the updates until the bug is fixed. Worse yet if the bug takes a while to fix, Microsoft will force the upgrade multiple times over that period (each time for a known issue).
I am yet to see any business that runs on bleeding edge code for all production systems (heck most hardcore gamers don't upgrade video drivers at bleeding edge, unless there is a specific improveme
Re: CPU (Score:2, Informative)
No. It only makes it unusable while you're trying to use it. The rest of the time it's fine.
Re:Our experience with forced driver updates... (Score:4, Funny)
you have to strike it in the chest with a wooden stake...
Re: Our experience with forced driver updates... (Score:1)
We spend a crapload of time and money in WSUS, but somehow updates we disabled still make it through.
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So many complaints I've seen were from people complaining "I've done it wrong, and now it doesn't work."
Re: Our experience with forced driver updates... (Score:5, Interesting)
Even with SCCM, Silverlight (KB4013867) keeps installing itself. We have a crappy internal content management system that shows blank pages if Silverlight is installed so it's a huge problem. We lost an unemployment claim because after we fired someone for not showing up to work for three days, he claimed he didn't know that was our policy since he couldn't get to our handbook.
Re: Our experience with forced driver updates... (Score:5, Funny)
You misspelled "Sliverblight". Hope this helps!
I guess Microsoft just thought that Flash wasn't insecure enough and that they could do a better job.
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How do we make it stop, anyways? Obviously turning off updates flat out doesn't work, because they're lying scum. So, how?
Are we going to have to Ghandi their headquarters back into the stone-age before they finally get the message? Because it's starting to feel like with a lot of major corporations, violence *IS* the only remaining solution.
$404 Not Found (Score:5, Funny)
Forrester said the per-worker savings over a three-year stretch would be $404
says the exact opposite.
Then I guess the savings are 404 Not Found.
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My experience is more like the original posters. Updating whenever and whatever it chose, ignoring gpos that have worked for years, actually bypassing the wsus server and going directly to microsoft update. When we opened a ticket we were told "by design" Well I am sorry they failed unless their design intent was to bring the network to its knees during business hours. Setting up a WSUS at every branch and blocking traffic to microsoft update has been the only way to bring this issue to heel, and it too
captain obvious is being obvious again (Score:5, Insightful)
Chevrolet says their cars are best
coca cola, vs pepsi etc...
Haines vs Fruit of the Loom blah blah blah
Re: captain obvious is being obvious again (Score:5, Funny)
No, no, no. It's an independent report from that paragon of objectivity, Forrester Research. Microsoft took a huge risk because Forrester's independent and highly ethical analysts could have found that Windows 10 is a security nightmare. But Microsoft's bet paid off when the Forrester analysts found instead that Windows 10 is the best evah.
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I'm sure there's another organisation, though the name escapes me, that always says the opposite of Forrester.
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Gartner, FTW!
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You win at internets! Nice to know I wasn't imagining it.
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It's more like Ford saying, but the new fords, you'll save 28% in operating costs. Less maintenance, less fuel.
At least that's how I read the summary, they're comparing to windows 7/8
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plus the new models have build in spyware, slow to a halt on the freeway for an 'update', every update rearranges location of crucial controls like lights and wipers, and they reboot constantly during rush hour.
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I actually think that's true in both cases too, you win car analogy in my book
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Who is kidding who with M$. It is more like saying we will save you the cost of footwear by cutting off your legs. Kind of like invading your privacy makes you life more secure or targeting your personally with manipulative advertising will help you make smarter purchasing decisions or M$ controlling your computer makes you free. Ahh, the age of digital double speak.
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vi is best.
No! emacs is!
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vi is best.
No! emacs is!
Yes, another emacs verses vi war.
Re: captain obvious is being obvious again (Score:1)
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It doesn't, so what's your point? Wakefield's "research" was a willful fraud to try to promote his own vaccine formulation.
Alternative summary (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft says that buying their new product will save you more money than sticking with their previous product - so give them more of your money.
Microsoft also says you could stand a bath.
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maybe those who saved this money did so by buying 28% less microsoft software?
Re:Alternative summary (Score:4, Informative)
Microsoft says that buying their new product will save you more money than sticking with their previous product - so give them more of your money.
Microsoft also says you could stand a bath.
I can tell you are unfamiliar with Windows enterprise licensing. Check out this brief Wikipedia article on the MS Enterprise Agreement [wikipedia.org]. You pay for how many Windows machines you are running, whatever version. You do not need to give them more money to upgrade. And as a Windows admin, I concur with the article that Windows 10 is easier to manage, but not nearly as dramatically as it claims.
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Staff find they are more productive than ever and the company enjoys more profits.
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"Report impending French contract proposals or feasibility studies and negotiations for international sales or investments in major projects or systems of significant interest to the foreign host country or $200 million or more in sales and/or services, including financing information or projects of high interest including... "
Some nations should just stop trusting any US crypto or OS.
Bad statistics are bad... (Score:5, Insightful)
If that is 4 bussinesses (which tend to use the same hardware across everyone).. it is still invalid as that only means that it works for a certain small subset of hardware.
In short, the intentionally, skewed the data using known happy customers.
Re:Bad statistics are bad... (Score:4, Insightful)
They don't have to pick known happy customers, or in any way rig the study. All they have to do is commission 10 (completely independent) small studies, with contracts giving them sole right of publication, then publish only the most favourable one.
Bet they're not upgrading directly from Windows 7 (Score:4, Funny)
because the UI is so different, a lot of users won't know what to do with considerable help.
A lot of people aren't familiar with Win 8 or newer unless they bought brand new computers. Most of the people I know stuck with Windows 7, some switched to Mac or iOS & Android tablets
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This doesn't work the same as it did in 7, it filters anything that isn't a installed app. Example items are things like HWMonitor, even the the .exe is on the desktop the windows 10 search from start will not find it. Basically any application that didn't go through a windows install process the start search filters out.
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Just like the hidden offscreen controls in Win8 such a thing is not so obvious until someone tells you or you see it for yourself. The receptionists, accounts staff and general admin staff where I work have been using MS Windows since 3.11 but they wouldn't think of hitting the win key and start typing the name of the app you want - it's not the way MS environments have worked in the past.
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Congratulations Microsoft, you re-invented DOS.
Re:Bet they're not upgrading directly from Windows (Score:4, Insightful)
The average JoePublic user won't know the name of the application executable.
What if there are several versions (bad systems management) which one do they choose.
IT is fine for geeks but for a non geek? forget it.
The torrents of abuse I've had hurled at me from people who were forced by my old managment onto W10 was enough to make me throw in the towel and quit.
Users don't like change. End Of.
W10 forces a lot of change on the users.
Don't even get me started on the forced updates bricking devices. Two days before I left the above job, an update bricked the CEO's PC.
The rollout of W10 stopped there and then. No amount of cajoling would persuade me to stay on and roll everyone back to W7. I'm done with Windows for good.
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I guess it's more about how people need to "relearn" how to logoff and stuff, since those functions are "slightly" moved to another place. Office drones tend to know their work pipeline down to the used shortcuts BUT NOTHING ELSE. Shit, they even call support when a warning pops up that reads "click ok to continue" if it's unexpected.
When we upgraded our company to win 10, we knew beforehand and printed out some small poster with new shortcuts, how to do basic operations like logging off or shutting down (n
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Very insightful. No points to mod you up, wish I had them.
I think users at my office will react similarly. We are staying with Win7 until new PCs come in slowly that only have Win10.
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I agree with you aside from his pompous use of "drones".
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Hitting a key and typing is the last thing anyone would expect to need to do on a touch UI.
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At least once a week, I meet another of our users who refers to their desktop as "the CPU"
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Complete load of Bunk Migrated my works domain of about 100 people to Windows 10 not long after it came out and we had virtually no calls about it being difficult to use or that they could find Word, the ERP system, etc. Left face it here most peoples shortcuts are on the desktop or, at best, the task bar. They don't need to learn anything else other than where to do to shut down the computer.
How nice that you had no trouble with your toy setup. The 2 largest accounts that my team administers have 15000 healthcare users in 7 AD domains & 50000 for a petrochemicals conglomerate. Total numbers of applications in use? Over 12000. If we change so much as one fucking icon without notification, we get hundreds of calls.
Windows 10? Sure it save money! (Score:5, Informative)
On my computer Windows 10 cost my company $2,307. This is because it upgraded my Windows 7 computer without authorisation and fucked it up in the process, making anything dependant on mmc.exe unusable (because the upgrade fucked up the Software Catalog and wouldn't recognize Microsoft's own signature on mmc.exe). It cost my company the equivalent of $2,307 in wages and lost productivity to reinstall Windows 10 from scratch and reinstall all of the development tools that were previously running quite happily under Windows 7.
I would have much preferred Windows 7 to be reinstalled, but the company is "moving forward" with Windows 10.
Re:Windows 10? Sure it save money! (Score:4, Funny)
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statistics (Score:2, Insightful)
"The bottom line, said Forrester and Microsoft, was that the migration to Windows 10 would pay for itself -- the breakeven point when savings equal costs -- in 14 months."
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- Mark Twain
Studies paid for by Microsoft (and its buddies) are of course going to "show" how wonderful Microsoft is. That's what they paid for after all. And that's no reason to report on it as if it were news; it's not news. It's wishful thinking. Along the lines of Big
Useless statistics again. (Score:2)
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I'm calling bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
We've invested so much staff time into figuring out how to neuter Win 10's bullshit "features" like Telemetry, crappy interface, beefed up UAC (that breaks plenty of applications that we use), broken profile management, and inflexible Windows update....
Only reason we're even touching Win 10 is that 7 doesn't work well on a lot of newer laptops, and come 2020 M$ is dropping all support for 7.
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> 7 doesn't work well on a lot of newer laptops
This. Several models of Dell laptops we buy won't run 7 because of driver issues. IIRC, the most common problem is a Broadcom network adapter. It sucks being forced to run something that is harder to support.
Re:Here's an idea: Increase the H-1B cap (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe it. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's saving me quite a lot of money, because I decided not to use it and move over to Debian/KDE instead.
So yep, Win10 has been saving me money ever since it came out. I'm surprised other people are not seeing similar kinds of savings.
Sheer fantasy and utter crap combine (Score:2)
The stupid almost leaves me speechless.
Quite obviously. . . (Score:2)
the people who came up with this report have never worked with Windows 10.
I claim I'm the Queen of Sheba (Score:2)
Claims schmaims. I can claim I'm the Queen of Sheba but it doesn't mean I've got titties or a crown on my head.
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Claims schmaims. I can claim I'm the Queen of Sheba but it doesn't mean I've got titties or a crown on my head.
I've got titties on my head, you insensitive clod!
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I don't think I dare ask where your crown is.
Re:I claim I'm the Queen of Sheba (Score:4, Funny)
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It might be prudent to move away from the nuclear reactor but, don't let me interrupt your enjoyment of getting a good... haircut. Just a light trim, extra Brylcreem?
So, "20% improvement in management time" (Score:4, Interesting)
with "more self-service functions".
So the end-users take more of their time to do stuff traditionally done by IT staff.
Microsoft giveth, and Microsoft taketh away.
Forrester are shills for MS (Score:1)
They have been around MS's bidding for years. When linux was first emerging, Forrester came up with TCO of linux was 15% less that of Windows directly, but support was more than 20%. Didn't make sense then. Their figures are always low in difference so they are believable for people who don't know better.
Everyone trusts microsoft (Score:2)
Ever since the release of the SpyOS faith in Microsoft has never been higher.
Mopst user are of course at the mercy of self-updating, cannot be switched off crap that MS forces on them...Entrprise businesses however are far more sceptical.
Here's the nail in the coffin. Entprirse businesses KNOW it will be MUCH CHEAPER to simply NEVER PURCHASE WINDOWS 10.
Go on, convince them how there'll be "uuge savings".
It also reduces sysadmin's wrinkels by %17.0711 (Score:2)
The next report will include figures for weight loss and blood pressure improvements.
They're practically giving it away... (Score:2)
oh wait
33% savings from security? (Score:4, Insightful)
If that's the case think how much you could save by using software that is incompatible with the malware that infests the MS platform. There are many other choices now.
unmentioned liabilities (Score:5, Insightful)
Office 360 requires storage of company confidential content - truckloads of it - in the cloud. That is a liability. A huge liability.
It entirely defeats the purpose of things like firewall, security policy, or retention policy.
I expect some pretty large breaches, and pretty huge losses of IP in the form of industrial/trade secrets as well as classified, confidential, and proprietary content.
And without good audits, neither microsoft, nor the victim/user will know they are gone until they pop up in the competitors (China's) products at commodity pricing and with worldwide distribution.
How does that factor into the TCO?
Re:unmentioned liabilities (Score:5, Insightful)
And without good audits, neither microsoft, nor the victim/user will know they are gone until they pop up in the competitors (China's) products...
This is the damning part. Industrial espionage from China is something of a constant thing these days, but when you run your own servers (and haven't outsourced administration to incompetents), you can see the attempts happening and have at least some chance of detecting and stopping a breach.
When the servers storing your company's most valuable data aren't even yours, you haven't the slightest idea what's happening to them. You may not even know where they are. And even while you may think you know, they may have rearranged things without telling you and you still don't know where they are. Repeat that process a few times and suddenly your entire business (in Ohio) grinds to a halt because of a typhoon in Malaysia. Surprise, Microsoft outsourced an entire datacenter.
MBA's are goddamned stupid. IT is a core competency of every business now. You either do it yourself and do it well or you will be bitten on the ass, one way or another. Outsourcing IT is like outsourcing your filing system 50 years ago. Insanity.
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IT is a core competency of every business now. You either do it yourself and do it well or you will be bitten on the ass, one way or another. Outsourcing IT is like outsourcing your filing system 50 years ago. Insanity.
Most of the local small businesses I visited over the weekend would disagree that IT is a core competency to their business. Let's see:
- Breakfast dinner
- Rug store
- Sawmill
- Dry cleaners
- Deli
- Greenhouse nursery
etc.
Outsourcing IT to Square+Facebook and not having to deal with the credit card processing or building a website/social media presence is a plus.
Outsourcing their Accounting to a local management company (yes, that _IS_ outsourcing) and not having to deal with screwing up payroll+taxes is a plus
IBM Report?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Originally 13% (Score:2)
Originally the findings were 13%, but overall drivers were able to save 15% or more when they insured with GEICO.
"Using that pretend company" (Score:5, Funny)
"Using that pretend company"...
Say no more. My pretend company installed Windows 10 and saved over 5 billion percent, and that was just during the first 2 hours.
Sadly, my other pretend company installed Windows 10 and immediately had 4 data breaches, 12 suicides, and went out of business the next week. 67% of the workers also tested positive for chlamydia.
In other words (Score:3)
Microsoft is 28% more desperately trying to convince you to switch than last year.
Good.
Spin, spin, spin, spin (Score:2)
Cost of Windows and Audits (Score:1)
Let's do the math... (Score:2)
OK, so if you install windows 10 (compared to almost anything else) you save no money at all. If you installed it last year, you saved no money. If you install it this year, you STILL save no money! Hmmmm
0_2016 x 0.28 = 0_2017
OMG! They are telling the truth! Microsoft 10 this year saves you 28% more than it did last year, because 28% of nothing is still nothing!
Of course, hmmm, if installing it actually COSTS you money -- if ROI is negative, by the time you finish messing with all of t
Faster to install my ass (Score:2)
Faster to install? HAH! We installed a fresh Windows 10 on a new, modern machine. It took over 24 hours to the updates after the install.