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Microsoft Businesses Operating Systems Windows IT

Microsoft Claims Windows 10 Saves Enterprises 28% More Than They Claimed Last Year (computerworld.com) 136

"Microsoft this week boosted by 28% its claim of how much enterprises can save by deploying Windows 10," writes Computerworld. An anonymous reader quotes their report: The revised estimate came from a Microsoft-commissioned analysis first done in mid-2016 by Forrester Research. Then, Forrester said the per-worker savings over a three-year stretch would be $404. To reach that number, the research firm interviewed four Microsoft customers that had begun moving to Windows 10, then modeled a hypothetical organization with 24,000 Windows devices, and a large number of mobile workers among the 20,000 employees. Using that pretend company, Forrester forecast the difference between running Windows 10 and retaining Windows 7.

Late last year, Forrester interviewed another quartet of Windows early 10 adopters, then added that data to what it had originally. The new per-employee savings: $515 over three years, a jump of almost a third... Forrester's increase in the number of mobile workers -- the total climbed by 460 employees -- was the biggest factor in the changed estimate... The bottom line, said Forrester and Microsoft, was that the migration to Windows 10 would pay for itself -- the breakeven point when savings equal costs -- in 14 months.

The report says IT administrators "estimate a 20% improvement in management time, as Windows 10 requires less IT time to install, manage, and support with in-place deployment and more self-service functions," while because of the OS's security software, "security events requiring IT remediation are reduced or avoided by 33%."
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Microsoft Claims Windows 10 Saves Enterprises 28% More Than They Claimed Last Year

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09, 2017 @04:49PM (#54203325)

    says the exact opposite. Too many of our Dell laptops won't even boot after an update to the video card driver. We disable it, but it just keeps coming back.

    • Same here. Windows toc = much higher. Better off with Linux or Mac machines.

      • CPU (Score:5, Informative)

        by sycodon ( 149926 ) on Sunday April 09, 2017 @07:35PM (#54203875)

        My tech called me into his office and showed me the performance tab of the task manager.

        He had nothing but a PDF open. when he scrolled the PDF, CPU usage went to 120% apparently because the graph went off the scale.

        He was unable to complete some assigned training because his Win 10 laptop was too slow.

        • Re: CPU (Score:3, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward

          You missed that it's $404.... savings not found error.

        • So a bug in the rendering of a PDF viewer is a windows 10 problem.

          I'd write a list of times when something similar has happened on every other platform ever but even Slashdot has a word limit in these post boxes (to say nothing of the "lameness filter")

          • A bug like that tends to involve the video drivers (hardware acceleration), on almost any other system a privileged user is able to override the updates until the bug is fixed. Worse yet if the bug takes a while to fix, Microsoft will force the upgrade multiple times over that period (each time for a known issue).

            I am yet to see any business that runs on bleeding edge code for all production systems (heck most hardcore gamers don't upgrade video drivers at bleeding edge, unless there is a specific improveme

    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09, 2017 @04:57PM (#54203359)

      you have to strike it in the chest with a wooden stake...

    • We spend a crapload of time and money in WSUS, but somehow updates we disabled still make it through.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      How do we make it stop, anyways? Obviously turning off updates flat out doesn't work, because they're lying scum. So, how?

      Are we going to have to Ghandi their headquarters back into the stone-age before they finally get the message? Because it's starting to feel like with a lot of major corporations, violence *IS* the only remaining solution.

    • by tepples ( 727027 ) <tepples.gmail@com> on Sunday April 09, 2017 @06:01PM (#54203597) Homepage Journal

      Forrester said the per-worker savings over a three-year stretch would be $404

      says the exact opposite.

      Then I guess the savings are 404 Not Found.

    • That's my experience too. But Windows Enterprise customers can turn off the stupid forced updates.
  • by FudRucker ( 866063 ) on Sunday April 09, 2017 @04:49PM (#54203329)
    and Ford Motor Company claims Ford cars are best
    Chevrolet says their cars are best
    coca cola, vs pepsi etc...
    Haines vs Fruit of the Loom blah blah blah
    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09, 2017 @04:57PM (#54203357)

      No, no, no. It's an independent report from that paragon of objectivity, Forrester Research. Microsoft took a huge risk because Forrester's independent and highly ethical analysts could have found that Windows 10 is a security nightmare. But Microsoft's bet paid off when the Forrester analysts found instead that Windows 10 is the best evah.

    • by AvitarX ( 172628 )

      It's more like Ford saying, but the new fords, you'll save 28% in operating costs. Less maintenance, less fuel.

      At least that's how I read the summary, they're comparing to windows 7/8

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        plus the new models have build in spyware, slow to a halt on the freeway for an 'update', every update rearranges location of crucial controls like lights and wipers, and they reboot constantly during rush hour.

    • by AK Marc ( 707885 )
      It's more like Ford saying that the EPA reports a 30% drop in Ford fuel consumption. Ford is reporting on Ford cars, but it's an "independent" report, and compared to Fords, not Chevys.
      • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        Who is kidding who with M$. It is more like saying we will save you the cost of footwear by cutting off your legs. Kind of like invading your privacy makes you life more secure or targeting your personally with manipulative advertising will help you make smarter purchasing decisions or M$ controlling your computer makes you free. Ahh, the age of digital double speak.

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      vi is best.

      No! emacs is!

    • And don't forget, mercury in vaccines don't cause autism. Right Bill?
      • It doesn't, so what's your point? Wakefield's "research" was a willful fraud to try to promote his own vaccine formulation.

  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Sunday April 09, 2017 @04:51PM (#54203337)

    Microsoft says that buying their new product will save you more money than sticking with their previous product - so give them more of your money.

    Microsoft also says you could stand a bath.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      maybe those who saved this money did so by buying 28% less microsoft software?

    • by chispito ( 1870390 ) on Monday April 10, 2017 @12:52AM (#54204955)

      Microsoft says that buying their new product will save you more money than sticking with their previous product - so give them more of your money.

      Microsoft also says you could stand a bath.

      I can tell you are unfamiliar with Windows enterprise licensing. Check out this brief Wikipedia article on the MS Enterprise Agreement [wikipedia.org]. You pay for how many Windows machines you are running, whatever version. You do not need to give them more money to upgrade. And as a Windows admin, I concur with the article that Windows 10 is easier to manage, but not nearly as dramatically as it claims.

      • by Gr8Apes ( 679165 )
        I'm well familiar with its exorbitant pricing schemes. But, back on topic, I'm sure the article is correct, it is 28% better than what they claimed last year. It could also be 50% better, because a percentage of nothing is...
    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      When the computers stop working and tech support is hours late, staff work with paper, pens and a whiteboard.
      Staff find they are more productive than ever and the company enjoys more profits.
  • by cb88 ( 1410145 ) on Sunday April 09, 2017 @04:57PM (#54203361)
    "interviewed four Microsoft customers" if that is 4 people .... that is statistically invalid especially if you are going to extrapolate to 24k users.

    If that is 4 bussinesses (which tend to use the same hardware across everyone).. it is still invalid as that only means that it works for a certain small subset of hardware.

    In short, the intentionally, skewed the data using known happy customers.
    • by james_gnz ( 663440 ) on Monday April 10, 2017 @12:10AM (#54204859)

      "interviewed four Microsoft customers" if that is 4 people .... that is statistically invalid especially if you are going to extrapolate to 24k users. If that is 4 bussinesses (which tend to use the same hardware across everyone).. it is still invalid as that only means that it works for a certain small subset of hardware. In short, the intentionally, skewed the data using known happy customers.

      They don't have to pick known happy customers, or in any way rig the study. All they have to do is commission 10 (completely independent) small studies, with contracts giving them sole right of publication, then publish only the most favourable one.

  • by haruchai ( 17472 ) on Sunday April 09, 2017 @05:03PM (#54203377)

    because the UI is so different, a lot of users won't know what to do with considerable help.
    A lot of people aren't familiar with Win 8 or newer unless they bought brand new computers. Most of the people I know stuck with Windows 7, some switched to Mac or iOS & Android tablets

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by h33t l4x0r ( 4107715 )
      Considerable help? Just hit the win key and start typing the name of the app you want. Works in all Windows and most Linux too.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        This doesn't work the same as it did in 7, it filters anything that isn't a installed app. Example items are things like HWMonitor, even the the .exe is on the desktop the windows 10 search from start will not find it. Basically any application that didn't go through a windows install process the start search filters out.

      • by dbIII ( 701233 )

        Considerable help? Just hit the win key and start typing the name of the app you want

        Just like the hidden offscreen controls in Win8 such a thing is not so obvious until someone tells you or you see it for yourself. The receptionists, accounts staff and general admin staff where I work have been using MS Windows since 3.11 but they wouldn't think of hitting the win key and start typing the name of the app you want - it's not the way MS environments have worked in the past.

      • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

        Just hit the win key and start typing the name of the app you want.

        Congratulations Microsoft, you re-invented DOS.

      • by RotateLeftByte ( 797477 ) on Monday April 10, 2017 @01:35AM (#54205037)

        The average JoePublic user won't know the name of the application executable.
        What if there are several versions (bad systems management) which one do they choose.
        IT is fine for geeks but for a non geek? forget it.

        The torrents of abuse I've had hurled at me from people who were forced by my old managment onto W10 was enough to make me throw in the towel and quit.
        Users don't like change. End Of.
        W10 forces a lot of change on the users.

        Don't even get me started on the forced updates bricking devices. Two days before I left the above job, an update bricked the CEO's PC.
        The rollout of W10 stopped there and then. No amount of cajoling would persuade me to stay on and roll everyone back to W7. I'm done with Windows for good.

      • by NoZart ( 961808 )

        I guess it's more about how people need to "relearn" how to logoff and stuff, since those functions are "slightly" moved to another place. Office drones tend to know their work pipeline down to the used shortcuts BUT NOTHING ELSE. Shit, they even call support when a warning pops up that reads "click ok to continue" if it's unexpected.

        When we upgraded our company to win 10, we knew beforehand and printed out some small poster with new shortcuts, how to do basic operations like logging off or shutting down (n

        • Very insightful. No points to mod you up, wish I had them.

          I think users at my office will react similarly. We are staying with Win7 until new PCs come in slowly that only have Win10.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Hitting a key and typing is the last thing anyone would expect to need to do on a touch UI.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09, 2017 @05:06PM (#54203389)

    On my computer Windows 10 cost my company $2,307. This is because it upgraded my Windows 7 computer without authorisation and fucked it up in the process, making anything dependant on mmc.exe unusable (because the upgrade fucked up the Software Catalog and wouldn't recognize Microsoft's own signature on mmc.exe). It cost my company the equivalent of $2,307 in wages and lost productivity to reinstall Windows 10 from scratch and reinstall all of the development tools that were previously running quite happily under Windows 7.

    I would have much preferred Windows 7 to be reinstalled, but the company is "moving forward" with Windows 10.

  • statistics (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    "The bottom line, said Forrester and Microsoft, was that the migration to Windows 10 would pay for itself -- the breakeven point when savings equal costs -- in 14 months."

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- Mark Twain

    Studies paid for by Microsoft (and its buddies) are of course going to "show" how wonderful Microsoft is. That's what they paid for after all. And that's no reason to report on it as if it were news; it's not news. It's wishful thinking. Along the lines of Big

  • A significant number of these upgrades will not be software upgrades but system upgrades. Of course a nice new computer is going to help things get done faster.
  • by Indy1 ( 99447 ) <spamtrap@fuckedregime.com> on Sunday April 09, 2017 @05:19PM (#54203447) Homepage

    We've invested so much staff time into figuring out how to neuter Win 10's bullshit "features" like Telemetry, crappy interface, beefed up UAC (that breaks plenty of applications that we use), broken profile management, and inflexible Windows update....

    Only reason we're even touching Win 10 is that 7 doesn't work well on a lot of newer laptops, and come 2020 M$ is dropping all support for 7.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      > 7 doesn't work well on a lot of newer laptops

      This. Several models of Dell laptops we buy won't run 7 because of driver issues. IIRC, the most common problem is a Broadcom network adapter. It sucks being forced to run something that is harder to support.

  • I believe it. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09, 2017 @05:37PM (#54203513)

    It's saving me quite a lot of money, because I decided not to use it and move over to Debian/KDE instead.

    So yep, Win10 has been saving me money ever since it came out. I'm surprised other people are not seeing similar kinds of savings.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    The stupid almost leaves me speechless.

  • the people who came up with this report have never worked with Windows 10.

  • Claims schmaims. I can claim I'm the Queen of Sheba but it doesn't mean I've got titties or a crown on my head.

  • by dwywit ( 1109409 ) on Sunday April 09, 2017 @05:54PM (#54203577)

    with "more self-service functions".

    So the end-users take more of their time to do stuff traditionally done by IT staff.

    Microsoft giveth, and Microsoft taketh away.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    They have been around MS's bidding for years. When linux was first emerging, Forrester came up with TCO of linux was 15% less that of Windows directly, but support was more than 20%. Didn't make sense then. Their figures are always low in difference so they are believable for people who don't know better.


  • Ever since the release of the SpyOS faith in Microsoft has never been higher.

    Mopst user are of course at the mercy of self-updating, cannot be switched off crap that MS forces on them...Entrprise businesses however are far more sceptical.

    Here's the nail in the coffin. Entprirse businesses KNOW it will be MUCH CHEAPER to simply NEVER PURCHASE WINDOWS 10.

    Go on, convince them how there'll be "uuge savings".
  • And lead software types got an average of twenty four minutes and fifty six seconds more sleep per week, while coders had an extra eight minutes plus every day for lunch and coffee time.

    The next report will include figures for weight loss and blood pressure improvements.

  • by dbIII ( 701233 ) on Sunday April 09, 2017 @07:42PM (#54203919)
    33% savings from security?
    If that's the case think how much you could save by using software that is incompatible with the malware that infests the MS platform. There are many other choices now.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 09, 2017 @08:15PM (#54204033)

    Office 360 requires storage of company confidential content - truckloads of it - in the cloud. That is a liability. A huge liability.

    It entirely defeats the purpose of things like firewall, security policy, or retention policy.

    I expect some pretty large breaches, and pretty huge losses of IP in the form of industrial/trade secrets as well as classified, confidential, and proprietary content.

    And without good audits, neither microsoft, nor the victim/user will know they are gone until they pop up in the competitors (China's) products at commodity pricing and with worldwide distribution.

    How does that factor into the TCO?

    • by Areyoukiddingme ( 1289470 ) on Sunday April 09, 2017 @10:38PM (#54204593)

      And without good audits, neither microsoft, nor the victim/user will know they are gone until they pop up in the competitors (China's) products...

      This is the damning part. Industrial espionage from China is something of a constant thing these days, but when you run your own servers (and haven't outsourced administration to incompetents), you can see the attempts happening and have at least some chance of detecting and stopping a breach.

      When the servers storing your company's most valuable data aren't even yours, you haven't the slightest idea what's happening to them. You may not even know where they are. And even while you may think you know, they may have rearranged things without telling you and you still don't know where they are. Repeat that process a few times and suddenly your entire business (in Ohio) grinds to a halt because of a typhoon in Malaysia. Surprise, Microsoft outsourced an entire datacenter.

      MBA's are goddamned stupid. IT is a core competency of every business now. You either do it yourself and do it well or you will be bitten on the ass, one way or another. Outsourcing IT is like outsourcing your filing system 50 years ago. Insanity.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        IT is a core competency of every business now. You either do it yourself and do it well or you will be bitten on the ass, one way or another. Outsourcing IT is like outsourcing your filing system 50 years ago. Insanity.

        Most of the local small businesses I visited over the weekend would disagree that IT is a core competency to their business. Let's see:

        - Breakfast dinner
        - Rug store
        - Sawmill
        - Dry cleaners
        - Deli
        - Greenhouse nursery
        etc.

        Outsourcing IT to Square+Facebook and not having to deal with the credit card processing or building a website/social media presence is a plus.
        Outsourcing their Accounting to a local management company (yes, that _IS_ outsourcing) and not having to deal with screwing up payroll+taxes is a plus

  • IBM Report?? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BeemanIT ( 4023223 ) on Sunday April 09, 2017 @09:25PM (#54204333)
    Wasn't there recently a report that went out about IBM switching to Apple due to the savings on support?
  • Originally the findings were 13%, but overall drivers were able to save 15% or more when they insured with GEICO.

     

  • by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Sunday April 09, 2017 @11:11PM (#54204699)

    "Using that pretend company"...

    Say no more. My pretend company installed Windows 10 and saved over 5 billion percent, and that was just during the first 2 hours.

    Sadly, my other pretend company installed Windows 10 and immediately had 4 data breaches, 12 suicides, and went out of business the next week. 67% of the workers also tested positive for chlamydia.

  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday April 10, 2017 @03:51AM (#54205311)

    Microsoft is 28% more desperately trying to convince you to switch than last year.

    Good.

  • After every "update", Windows 10 bricks another piece of my existing machine. After the last update, I had to find a wifi antenna. Scarce item these days in local stores. The old one had worked flawlessly for over a year. The "update" says it is incompatible. To date, I have spent over $600 replacing components that work until some genius at MS decides they don't like that brand anymore.
  • Most corporates get license compliance audits. Which are expensive to deal with. Organisations have to buy tools to track and manage deployments and licenses for Windows and other applications to deal with these issues. Nobody includes these costs when measuring ROI. http://www.cio.com/article/245... [cio.com]
  • OK, so if you install windows 10 (compared to almost anything else) you save no money at all. If you installed it last year, you saved no money. If you install it this year, you STILL save no money! Hmmmm

    0_2016 x 0.28 = 0_2017

    OMG! They are telling the truth! Microsoft 10 this year saves you 28% more than it did last year, because 28% of nothing is still nothing!

    Of course, hmmm, if installing it actually COSTS you money -- if ROI is negative, by the time you finish messing with all of t

  • Faster to install? HAH! We installed a fresh Windows 10 on a new, modern machine. It took over 24 hours to the updates after the install.

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