Opinion: Even if You Hate the Idea, Windows Users Should Want Windows 10 S To Succeed (arstechnica.com) 259
Last week, Microsoft unveiled Windows 10 S, a new variant of its desktop operating system aimed largely at the education space. While time will tell how this new edition of Windows fares, if early reactions from enthusiasts are anything to go by, Windows 10 S is in for a tough ride ahead. For one, Windows 10 S only permits installation of applications from the Windows Store. If that wasn't a deal-breaker, several popular applications including Google's Chrome are missing from the Store. Amid all of this, reporter and columnist Peter Bright has an op-ed up on ArsTechnica in which he argues that despite the walled-garden offering, people should want Windows 10 S to succeed as it could make Windows better for everyone else. From his article: This [forbidding execution of any program that wasn't downloaded from the Windows Store] positions Microsoft as a gatekeeper -- although its criteria for entry within the store is for the most part not stringent, it does reserve the right to remove software that it deems undesirable -- and means that the vast majority of extant Windows software can't be used. This means that PC mainstays, from Adobe Photoshop to Valve's Steam, can't be used on Windows 10 S. [...] Some of the arguments against this are bizarre. Notably, the complaint that Microsoft has now erected a paywall -- "you have to pay $50 to run Steam!" -- is very peculiar when one considers that, in general, Windows licenses have never been free. [...] The Windows Store makes bad parts of Windows better: I'd argue, however, that Windows users should want Windows 10 S to succeed. Windows 10 S isn't for everybody, and Windows 10 S may not be for you, but if Windows 10 S succeeds, it will make Windows 10 better for everyone. The Store in Windows RT required developers to write their apps from scratch. With negligible numbers of users, developers were uninterested in doing this work. The Store in Windows 10 has Centennial. In principle, Centennial should make it easy to package existing Win32 apps and sell them through the Store, and if developers of Windows apps adopt Centennial en masse then the Store restriction shouldn't be particularly restrictive. Widespread adoption will be good for Windows users of all stripes.
M$ not eating dogfood until VS is on Store (Score:5, Insightful)
"and if developers of Windows apps adopt Centennial en masse then the Store restriction shouldn't be particularly restrictive."
Let me know when Centennial is complete enough that Microsoft can put Visual Studio on Windows Store.
Re:M$ not eating dogfood until VS is on Store (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly - for me the acid test is how well they do with the Office port. In theory it is due in June.
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Which is probably the point where they stop making Windows 10 Home available to OEMs and replace it with this. Give it two more years, and anything other than S is a subscription.
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Re:M$ not eating dogfood until VS is on Store (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if it was perfect, why would anyone want to be locked in to having to use Microsoft's store as opposed to just getting their software from anywhere they like?
Windows 10 S is bad for freedom. If it succeeds it will just give Microsoft a tighter grip over what you can run. Maybe they don't like competition, so no Libre Office for you...
Fortunately Windows 10 S is already doomed. Why get a half baked OS when you can get a similar tablet with Android and a much larger selection of software, or just full Windows 10 that doesn't suck as much for a little more money?
Re:M$ not eating dogfood until VS is on Store (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed.
If we want a walled garden, there is already Apple products, which arguably are more secure. The reason Microsoft has been successful and the "default" OS for so long is that they are "open".
As crap as Microsoft are, they are open and easy for the average dumb-user to understand. If you take away open, they're just easy, and plenty of alternatives are easy.
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The walled garden is iOS only. I expect laptops and desktops to be more open.
There are two reasons people buy windows machines: they're what's sitting on the shelf, and to run Windows-compatible software. (Businesses have another reason, to keep their systems mostly uniform.) It would be hard to believe Microsoft would throw away the second reason, had Microsoft not done other boneheaded things in the recent past.
Re:M$ not eating dogfood until VS is on Store (Score:4, Informative)
The walled garden is iOS only.
As a (former) shareware developer for MacOS, I unfortunately have to say: not really. Or, to put it in other terms, only formally but not practically. While my application is still available on my website and various shareware/download sites, distributing applications that way doesn't work in practice due to Apple's unfair advantage and the inertia and laziness of end consumers. Even if you can still de jure get applications from elsewhere, almost nobody does it.Even if you can still de jure get applications from elsewhere, almost nobody does it. De facto developers (and indirectly also the customers) are already locked in via Gatekeeper, the Apple developer network, code signing requirements, constant API changes and intentional breaking of existing code if you do not use the latest official Apple tool-chain, sandboxing, and so on.
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Two words: Microsoft Office.
This has potential as an office-drone machine, where their entire workload revolves around Outlook, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and a web browser. Granted, they'll have to allow Chrome because Edge isn't going to be acceptable.
Add on the other big Microsoft toys -- Visio and Project -- and they may h
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Obviously MS wants total control, and they're going to get it.
It will matter to me at the point at which they force all PCs sold to be locked down at the bootloader level, to prevent installation of Linux or FreeBSD or some other alternative. That may fail an antitrust test, but it would takes years, even decades, to litigate that.
So, in the end, it's better for me if this new approach fails. But MS is very powerful, and even if this is the worst thing since Windows 8, they may be able to force acceptance.
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Do I trust Microsoft to be the gatekeeper? Of course not, they'll shut off all external access as soon as it becomes profitable for them.
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In an educational setting, you still need Visual Studio (or a substitute therefor) for "introduction to programming" class.
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complete enough that Microsoft can put Visual Studio on Windows Store
That would be interesting - to have a compiler that has to submit its results to the Windows Store to even be tested on the development machine.
Re:M$ not eating dogfood until VS is on Store (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah. Gated Windows apps. Microsoft glommed most of the apps it sells today. Have a nice app? Put it into the store and find its features in something Microsoft magically comes out with. These are kings of intellectual property rights and patents.
Worse, it removes choice. Yes, there are lots of downloadables that are plainly ugly and malware-ridden. Nonetheless, they're outside of Microsoft's control-- and often for the better. It's the death of shareware as we know it. It's vendor control, ala Oracle and Apple.
I have absolutely no trust of Microsoft at all. I have to deal with them, but I want nothing to do with them.
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Yep. I don't care if Windows succeeds or not. What I do care about is whether general purpose PC hardware remains available. I assume these Windows 10s boxes are 'secure boot' only, and you can't just replace windows 10s with Linux or set up to dual boot Windows 10s and Linux. Maybe if you shell out the 50 bucks they also make it so you can disable secure boot - but still, should I have to pay a Microsoft tax just to be able to set up a dual boot?
It's hard to say whether the point of this 10s thing is t
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I don't mind if Windows succeeds. However I strongly want the Windows store to FAIL. Along with all walled gardens, they should be optional and not oriented towards vendor lock-in. Microsoft has a trust problem at the moment, the customer base distrusts them, from home users to the enterprise, and they need to fix this first before assuming that they can force people into an unwanted store.
Re: M$ not eating dogfood until VS is on Store (Score:4, Funny)
10 LET M$ = "Microsoft"
Still doing that M$ thing, eh slashdot?
Yes, Slashdot is still limiting the length of comment subjects. "M$" saves seven characters compared to "Microsoft" while recalling Microsoft's heritage as a publisher of interpreters for the BASIC programming language.
I don't buy it (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't buy it.... For Windows 10 S to "succeed", they need a high sales number. A high sales number translates to the people at the top that their product is good and people want it, which means they make more of it, and develop future products similar to it.
Windows 10 S is not good. Wanting Windows 10 S to succeed is saying that you want more of Windows 10 S type products in the future.
No. I do not want more walled gardens. No, I do not want Windows 10 S to succeed.
Windows failed. (Score:3)
Windows failed. Again.
https://twitter.com/taviso/sta... [twitter.com]
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I see no point to this. Far more useful would be to make it easier to apply preset restricted profiles for kids and grandparents. But that is already served by just buying them a tablet and putting their router on Xmas light timer to cycle off/on nightly.
Re:I don't buy it (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not a good thing, but I think it really just shifts things around. They will succeed because some people who don't know any better will live with it. Others will pay the premium (was it $50 to start?) for the unrestricted version. They win on both sides - first by locking in those who don't switch, and second by eliminating the middle man from OEM licensing they do now in order to charge consumers directly (and more than OEMs were paying, probably). I don't know where all the hate is coming from - MS never pretended to be our friends, they are a business and we have choices.
Again, though, I think they will succeed despite themselves. They continue to make consumer unfriendly decisions and yet still succeed by the leverage of their marketshare... but now people who understand the "walled garden" of 10 S might be inclined to go ChromeOS, and perhaps Fuscia might even work better for some people. But I somehow doubt any significant number of consumers will flock to alternatives over this. As usual, it depends on what software you want or need to use. If 10 S gives it to you, so be it, otherwise you pay the premium or find an alternative.
Uh, I saw this yesterday,who is pushing this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Uh, I saw this yesterday,who is pushing this? (Score:5, Informative)
What we really want people to do is drop the trojan/boated Windows 10 and starting using ElementaryOS or Linux Mint. It's so easy to do folks
It's easy provided that the PC you own 1. allows customizing Secure Boot and 2. is compatible with Linux drivers.
Only PCs shipped with Windows 8 or earlier are required to allow the owner of a PC to disable or customize UEFI's Secure Boot feature. On PCs shipped with Windows 10, the PC maker can choose to make Secure Boot either open or closed. (The FSF uses the term Restricted Boot [fsf.org] to refer to Secure Boot that the PC's owner cannot control.) I haven't tried a Windows 10 S device myself, but imagine that all such devices have Restricted Boot, just as all Windows RT tablets had Restricted Boot. Someone stuck with a device with Restricted Boot will have to buy a new PC.
And even if a PC does boot non-Microsoft operating systems, I've seen cases where one or more of WLAN, Bluetooth, audio, and suspend is broken under Linux. Someone who spends several gigabytes of monthly data transfer quota to download a Live USB distribution only to discover that Linux cannot use essential features of his PC chipset will have to buy a new PC.
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Why find out the hard way when someone else has tested for you?
Someone who puts his make and model and "linux" into Google Search and finds that others have discovered that Linux cannot use essential features of that model's chipset will still have to buy a new PC.
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Beggars can't be choosers (Score:2)
the PC you own
That's why you put the make and model and "linux" into google search for the laptop you want to buy, not for the one you just bought.
As I wrote in a previous comment [slashdot.org], beggars can't be choosers. Not everyone can just up and spend $799 for a brand new System76 laptop.
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I bought a pretty full featured laptop last summer for $550 (including a discrete NVidia card)
But that still requires someone to have a few hundred dollars to spare at the time he gets an itch to try GNU/Linux for the first time. Compare this with sticking with your current Windows laptop for $0 (or $50 if it came with Windows 10 S). And did you get to try the display and keyboard of this $550 laptop in a showroom, or did you instead have to buy it sight unseen through a web store?
Many Chromebooks can install Linux, too.
True, Chrome OS uses Linux as its kernel. But non-web applications don't work outside developer mode, and developer mode
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Other than RAM and SSD, what "parts market is slammin" for a laptop?
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My ASUS convertible (Vivobook Flip) came with Windows 10 and runs Ubuntu nicely, thank you.
ASUS is hit and miss, however. The T100TA [debian.org] and X205TA [debian.org] have had serious problems with GNU/Linux in the past.
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If your PC is locked into only Windows 10, then it's brand-new and can be returned
The policy change allowing Restricted Boot on new x86-64 PCs that ship with Windows went into effect with the release of Windows 10 in third quarter of 2015. Most PCs shipped since then are long past the 14- or 30-day return policy.
Besides, a PC can still be locked into Windows without being locked into Windows 10. This is primarily through manufacturers that refuse to help the Linux and X.Org developer communities fix broken or missing hardware drivers. A laptop, for example, might be able to use WLAN, Blu
Tires don exits (Score:2)
I'll get right on that, soon as I can play a current top tier game on OtherOS.
I see plenty of room for "no true Scotsman" plays based on how you define "current" and "top tier". One might, for example, reason that Fox McCloud is currently top tier [ssbwiki.com], and Super Smash Bros. Melee runs in Dolphin, which runs on X11/Linux.
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Peter Bright (Score:5, Interesting)
A well-known Microsoft's shill. Just read some of his articles on Ars Technica, they sound like vulgar TV commercials.
Not really because it stifles competitive pricing (Score:5, Insightful)
Since you're restricted to one store it stifles competitive pricing for apps and games.
OEMs will be happy to include 10 S as it makes their devices cheaper and easier to support, it will be the defacto standard version of Windows, suddenly all casual desktop users are funneled to the Windows Store.
If MS had a store API that let other vendors hook in and provide their own storefronts this would not be a big deal, but for some reason they don't. I hear the Windows Store compared to a package repo in Linux, but it's not, you can't add third party sources.
Re:Not really because it stifles competitive prici (Score:4, Informative)
On Android you can install Amazon Store, on Windows there's Steam, Origin, UPlay, GoG, on Mac there is Steam as well, these are all curated storefronts with an eye on malware.
The issue here is they cannot be added to Windows 10 S as a companion storefront even though they do as much to "lock out the malware developers and remove the need for virus scanners."
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On Android you can install multiple stores, and yes iOS market is shrinking and you have to pay for apps on iOS that you get free on Android
I should what now? (Score:5, Insightful)
I want S to succeed so the Windows Store is more populated?
Sorry; no. I don't particularly care about that, OR Windows S. Given MS's behavior since 7, I'm more inclined to want to see it fail.
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My one experience with something like the Windows Store was to fire up Minesweeper on my new Win10 laptop. What came up was lame, and it had an offer for me to pay money to not get ads with Minesweeper.
Walled Garden (Score:5, Insightful)
Con: Microsoft has complete control over what can be installed on your computer, so they can bilk you for every last cent.
Apple essentially already does this. However, people tend to have a lot of trust in Apple for some reason. I'm not sure that applies to Microsoft.
Re:Walled Garden (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, Apple doesn't do this at all in MacOS (it only does it in iOS). I can download (or buy a CD/DVD for) any application written for MacOS and run it, no sweat.
Fact is, I rarely even bother with the Apple App Store for the stuff on my laptop.
Re:Walled Garden (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny thing, I could swear everyone, or at least the anti-Apple folks, keep repeating that this is exactly what would happen to macOS. Of course, macOS stays pretty much open, but Microsoft now does what Apple was supposed to do...
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Apple also occasionally listens to their customer base prior to releasing a product. MS releases what they think people want, then backpedal until they get there.
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Funny thing, I could swear everyone, or at least the anti-Apple folks, keep repeating that this is exactly what would happen to macOS.
They're probably right, in that if they didn't raise a hue and cry, Apple would probably go ahead and do it.
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Apple essentially already does this.
The only app i get for OS X from the app store is XCode (and now, I guess the free numbers/pages/keynote). Otherwise I have never used it, and have no desire for it.
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Con: Microsoft has complete control over what can be installed on your computer, so they can bilk you for every last cent.
Or more importantly, so they can control the computing environment. They can stifle or ban competition to their own products like Apple does, under the guise of "reducing the number of duplicate/redundant apps," thus lessening the chance that a competitor can even get wide-spread adoption for a superior product. Sure, bilking you for every cent is nice, but the biggest win is in preventing the rise of other companies and products that could compete. Sure, everything thought the Microsoft vs Netscape situati
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Sure, bilking you for every cent is nice, but the biggest win is in preventing the rise of other companies and products that could compete.
I don't see a difference. Eliminating competition is just one of the many methods they can use to bilk you.
The issue at hand is miscast... (Score:2)
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That's a rather tall order, and Windows S is not about becoming user-friendly.
OP claim we should want Windows 10 S to succeed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Continues writing a lot of stuff but never say WHY.
Why would we want it to succeed? So it become less restrictive than now? Yay.. Good reason.
So idiots can use Windows with no problem? How does that help me?
Windows S is bad because a Windows store is bad because if Windows store become the de-facto or only way to buy stuff then competition dies in Windows and with that you can be sure prices will get worse.
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Competition works if there is *actually competition*. Steam is primarily games, with a handful of apps (most of which relate to games). The iOS app store isn't in direct competition with any stores, I cannot directly buy Amazon music using an iOS device. I *might* find the app in question on Google Play, but that depends on me having an android device on top of my iOS device. Either way, I'm buying into a walled garden.
If MS does get their act together and make a store worth a crap, the worrisome (and likel
Very limited perspective on Windows 10 (Score:5, Interesting)
The author seems to want Win 10S to succeed because it will result in better Windows Store apps, with a simple install process, which can be used by all Windows users.
Right off the bat, doesn't this place an unreasonable amount of confidence that anything coming from the app store will not be evil?
Secondly, all my problems with Windows 10 have been outside the Windows Store experience that I don't see endearing the product to the education market. I have a couple of Win10 machines with 32GBytes of eMMC; doing an update is hell as it requires an external USB thumb drive and takes multiple hours - something that can't be tolerated in a classroom environment where there are dozens of PCs. I've bitched about my problems with the Win10 Bluetooth stack and I don't see anybody in Microsoft fixing that, even as the need for BT is growing with different external devices.
Next, I feel like Microsoft is going to continually look for opportunities to monetize the platform. Office 365 revenues flat lining? Say, let's start charging all those kids using Win 10S machines, the schools are just wasting money on hot lunch programs that should be going to Microsoft.
Finally, there is the privacy issue. Win 10 seems to be designed around collecting user data and exploiting it. Is this something parents want to have happen to their children? You can say that Google and Chrome do the same thing but it doesn't seem to be a core part of their business model. I wouldn't be surprised coming home to a kid that is demanding an Windows OS'd phone because the computer at school told them how much better it is than their stupid Android or iOS phone.
I know I'll get replies from numerous AC's who feel that I'm being unreasonably harsh towards Microsoft and what they're doing with the Windows 10 S platform, which is much better than ChromeOS even though nobody's seen it before but I just don't see Microsoft having the right stuff or approach to take on the education market in way that is positive for students and not completely exploitative.
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Very limited perspective on Windows 10 - Part Two (Score:5, Interesting)
Sorry, as soon as I walked away, I realized there were more issues in regards to the perspective on Windows that are a problem:
Edge. Sorry, I don't think it's reasonable to have to maintain a web page for Edge and IE because Microsoft won't use Webkit/be compatible with everything else out there. Companies need to provide responsive pages for tablets and smartphones - they shouldn't need to do the same amount of work for Microsoft browsers (that aren't even fully compatible with each other).
All that crap information on Windows 10 (and 8). If ANYBODY involved with Windows 10 S has ever seen how kids work in a classroom, then they should be clearing off the time/news updates/sports updates/weather/etc. that is in the Win10 scrawl at the bottom. This is just a distractor for kids which takes their attention away from the class material - unfortunately getting rid of it will get rid of potential Microsoft revenue streams so it's not going.
So, why do we want Windows 10 S to succeed?
Firefox doesn't use WebKit (Score:2)
Edge. Sorry, I don't think it's reasonable to have to maintain a web page for Edge and IE because Microsoft won't use Webkit/be compatible with everything else out there.
Edge or no Edge, your HTML documents still need to work in more than one engine. Firefox on platforms other than iOS doesn't use WebKit either; it uses Gecko. Though Blink in Chrome on platforms other than iOS is similar to WebKit, it has diverged somewhat in the four years since the fork.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Simply no (Score:5, Insightful)
It is better for such things so tightly linked to walled gardens to fail. So I am heavily hoping that Windows 10s will fail spectacularly. (Not that it is even close to the only thing with that problem, but that is not reason cheer it.)
Why don't they do what macOS Does? (Score:2)
They should do what Apple does with macOS.
With their GateKeeper feature, they restrict Installations to "Mac App Store and Registerred Developers", but users can override that (after receiving an appropriate warning).
If MS would make it so a "Policy" could force the "Windows Store Only", but if not, then Users could override that restriction if NOT set as a policy, then that would be much better than their true Walled Trash-Heap approach.
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If MS would make it so a "Policy" could force the "Windows Store Only", but if not, then Users could override that restriction
They did. It's free until December 31, and then it costs $50.
Actual summary of the article (Score:5, Informative)
The summary provided isn't terribly sharp; it takes out any of the justification provided in the Ars piece and relates mostly the author's opinions. Mr. Bright's actual argument is that the Windows 10 Store fills the hole of a single, consistent package manager, promising that applications will be cleanly installed, updated, and uninstalled without the diversity of mechanisms abundant currently. He doesn't offer any defense of Windows 10 S beyond that, nor of the essential problem of a locked-down ecosystem and all of the censorship-related complications, which are waved off in the first three paragraphs (along with a screenshot of the Popcorn Time installer failing to run.) I don't believe he even defends the ostensible cleanliness benefits of closed ecosystems. All of the positives that he cites would be obtainable if it were simply possible to hook into Windows Update, a notion he mentions.
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Mr. Bright's actual argument is that the Windows 10 Store fills the hole of a single, consistent package manager, promising that applications will be cleanly installed, updated, and uninstalled without the diversity of mechanisms abundant currently.
If only we could get just that, without the OS owner acting as gatekeeper and demanding a cut.
Basic assumption (Score:2)
We want to be in a walled garden, as long as it's a good walled garden. No thank you.
Not worried about my job security.... (Score:2)
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Our company relies on software we write in-house to function. Take that away, and we go bust real fast. We have absolutely no plans to ever distribute the software. A computer that only runs stuff from the Windows Store is as useful to our main operations as used kitty litter.
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A computer that only runs stuff from the Windows Store is as useful to our main operations as used kitty litter.
Management could always decree that you need to rewrite your in-house software to run as an app on Win10S. I've seen some in-house software turned into apps to run on iPads.
Walled Garden -- Corporate UBI (Score:2)
It's so funny to see the people lined up against UBI for individuals as some kind of socialist tyrany, but you never see the same kind of logic applied to walled gardens where OS/device makers skim profit off of everything that runs on "their" devices.
It's icky, monopolistic and seems only designed to extract rents, not add any value to the product or consumers. I used to be sort of receptive to the idea that it adds some element of security, but too many bad apps have passed through and its too often just
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Windows already locked down (Score:4, Interesting)
What does not happen, usually, is the expectation that the employee go off clock and do the work themselves, or buy a computer to do the work. This is what happens in education. If a teacher can't get work done on paid time, they are expected to work for free. Free work is usually a result of incompetent management. There is no overtime.
This extends to the classroom. While we all understand that the computer must be locked down, and both Windows and Mac allows administrators limit software that can installed. However limiting software that can be run is going to impose a limitation that many will find too restrictive. For instance, there are some open source programs that are used in science and computer science that can be run from USB. These do not need to be installed. They allow some flexibility so students can learn.
One Hundred Percent Malarkey (Score:2)
This [forbidding execution of any program that wasn't downloaded from the Windows Store] [...] means that the vast majority of extant Windows software can't be used. [...] Some of the arguments against this are bizarre.
The author then goes on to attack some of the dumb arguments, and ignore the only argument which matters. It's my PC. I decide what I want to run. Microsoft is horrible at virtual machines on your desktop; their cloud container technology might be perfectly suitable, I wouldn't know, but Virtual PC is garbage. XP Mode on Windows 7 fails to run a pretty fair sampling of older Windows software which runs fine under normal XP installed into VMware Player. The Direct3D passthrough layer in Virtual PC is also ye
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I wouldn't know, but Virtual PC is garbage... XP Mode on Windows 7
Windows 10 client hyper-v is Microsoft's virtualization tech today; and it is massively advanced over virtual PC in windows 7.
Virtual PC hasn't really been maintained or updated for over 6 years now. Complaining about virtual PC is as relevant as complaining about issues with internet explorer 8.
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Virtual PC hasn't really been maintained or updated for over 6 years now. Complaining about virtual PC is as relevant as complaining about issues with internet explorer 8.
I wouldn't know, because I have been wise enough to avoid Windows 10. Is Hyper-V worth half a fuck compared to vmware?
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I wouldn't know, because I have been wise enough to avoid Windows 10.
Meh. To each their own. I'd say win10 is a straight up upgrade to windows 7 in pretty much every way.
Yes the spyware/telemetry situation is ...unacceptable. And yes, you can avoid it by jumping through a bunch of hoops on windows 7 vetting every update and so forth. But since most of the crap has been backported to 7 anyway, both systems are equally a hassle to deal with in terms of telemetry in my view ... so for me, I prefer to run windows 10. Its newer and better in a lot of ways, and i have to screw ar
Author is not qualified to post on the internet (Score:2)
Windows 10 S isn't for everybody, and Windows 10 S may not be for you, but if Windows 10 S succeeds, it will make Windows 10 better for everyone.
If Windows 10 S succeeds, it means MS will discontinue W10 in favor of this walled garden. Why the hell would they continue with a more open platform if consumers accept their attempts at stooping lower still? Out of the kindness of their black, oily, hearts? Out of a desire to maintain multiple branches of the same OS?
I have from this obvious inference concluded that the author is an idiot that spends his free time writing insightful retorts in the Youtube comment section.
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A large number of consumers won't stand for the walled garden. They've got software that does what they want that won't be available from the Windows Store for whatever reason.
And the elephant in the room is... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's pretty easy to make a case that today's combination of mostly MSI files with some vendors still shipping in-house or legacy
However, none of this has any relationship whatsoever with Microsoft's precious "App Store"; and their desire to be the sole gatekeeper for cryptographically blessed software and get their 30% cut. And this aspect of the deal is not something that is of plausible value to anyone who isn't Microsoft. It's unlikely that MS will be able to get rid of 'legacy' Windows entirely; because Corporate would scream; but they would love for this 'Windows S' to become the de-facto 'Home Edition', with anyone who wants to go outside the walled garden paying an upgrade fee for the privilege.
This seems like a fatal flaw in the argument. If this were just about a fight between MSI loyalists and APPX fanboys; it would be easy to make the case that the legacy tech isn't good enough. That, however, is a relatively minor part of the issue; with the 'Store' being placed front and center by Microsoft's decision to effectively link UWP/APPX with the store(yes, there is a 'sideload' switch, at least for now; but the only remotely preferred configuration involves everyone with a Microsoft account, buying software, from any vendor, through the Microsoft store.
cannot polish this turd (Score:3)
Seriously? Windows 10 S removes one of the most important aspects to the traditional Windows OS---running whatever you want on your own workstation. Now MS wants to become the toll-taker on the road to the walled garden. No thanks!
Corporate doublespeak (Score:2)
TFA is entirely corporate doublespeak. It literally makes as much sense as Intel PR shills attempting to justify a shift in production from ICs to abacus beads.
The benefits of running applications in isolated containers is a justification for jails not artificially restricting execution and the means of distribution.
What I find amazing (not)... (Score:2)
The faster the hardware the slower the user experience seems to get.... Now why is that?
How does this apply to Windows 10 S? I'm under the impression the "S" stands for "S"tartup & "S"hutdown but in time it'll be just as slow as and non-windows 10 S... just as any new windows install is fast... but in time slows down.
Fuck walled gardens. (Score:5, Insightful)
Any peripherals you'd like to attach have to be specify allowed.
Not all opinions are equal (Score:5, Insightful)
and this one is stupid.
10 S should fail, it should fail and die, then the idiots who conceived and approved this monstrosity should be fired and ostracized from the IT community forever.
It's a step backwards for computing. I bailed on Apple before they built their walled garden and I'd bail on Microsoft if it looks like this is going to be the future of their OS.
LK
I want universal computer and not AppConsole (Score:2)
What is the difference between windows 10 S and phone with Android or Gaming Console? Is it the death of universal computers as we know them? Simple machines that can process any code written for them?
If you want a AppConsole that is nice a runs fast but restricts you to content AppConsole's owner wants you to use then use Android (or some left-behind competitor like Wind 10S). If you want to have universal PC then use Linux.
LibreOffice, Firefox, ... (Score:2)
will these be in the application store or will Microsoft keep these out so as to lock people into Office 365 and Edge ? What about things like the Gimp ?
Nope (Score:2)
Death to curated computing in all its forms. Long live general-purpose computing!
Should want? (Score:2, Funny)
Designed to Fail (Score:2)
A walled garden is not a good thing for anybody. This will fail miserably as it should!
please oh please (Score:2)
What I would like to see (Score:2)
ok two things (Score:2)
Thing one:
Windows 10 S violates the "one code base to rule them all" design decision for which they've been taking so much heat in the recent past. Windows 10's Frankenstein combination of touch-centric and non-touch-centric interfaces was specifically so that they could have a single code base for the entire product line.
So ok, whether to fragment their code base up to them, it's their code. But I strongly suspect that 10 S is really a test balloon for the entire code base to go to a walled-garden-only s
Education Space (Score:2)
In my experiences the education space is filled with esoteric applications. in fact most of the time you are doing some lab, project, etc. on school computers it is in some old piece of software created by some guy who used to work for the school 20 years ago. These software applications do not tend to be in The Windows store.
Thinking back on my academic career, I was to wonder, if I never used a computer that was strictly running mainstream currently maintained software, how are they going to sell a comput
That naive? Really? (Score:2)
Are you blind man? If this crap succeeds, it'll just be forced unto the rest of the PC world until no Windows PC runs anything outside Microsoft Store.
There are some pros to this, mainly much increased resistance to malware and such, but ugh, no no no no 1000 times more no!
Though, honestly, if Microsoft dares try that, it would be the end of them.
Re: (Score:2)
You do realize that the "S" is the result of a change by Microsoft Marketing? It was originally "$".
Re: (Score:2)
end the PC Windows market
What happens after that? Does Apple get 90 percent of the PC market? Or do Linux laptops* start showing up in North American showrooms?
* Specifically, those capable of running something other than a web browser without begging to format it every time you turn it on. Search this article [howtogeek.com] for "Space key".
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is that you have to trust the app (or the OS) to ask first. Depending on software for this is foolish. People who really care about security of mics and cams either use physical kill switches or unplug them when not in use. This problem is better solved by having laptop vendors include physical switches for mics and cams.
I shouldn't have to enable a 'sideload' mode and jump through hoops to install whatever software I want. I have no desire to use my systems as glorified cellphones.