A Power Outage In Silicon Valley Was Caused By A Drone Crash (mercurynews.com) 218
An anonymous reader quotes the San Jose Mercury News:
A drone crashed into a high-voltage wire Thursday night, causing tens of thousands of dollars in damage and knocking out power to roughly 1,600 people for about two hours, police said... "The FAA has rules and regulations in place to prevent this exact type of incident from happening," said Mountain View police spokeswoman Katie Nelson. "We simply ask that people comply with the rules and that they operate drones safely and sensibly."
The town's city hall was without power -- along with the rest of the 1,600 homes -- prompting a Google software engineer to tweet that "drones are fun until someone flies one into high-voltage power lines." They added later that "apparently the owner 'fled in a white hatchback', which is the least dignified way that someone can flee, I think."
The town's city hall was without power -- along with the rest of the 1,600 homes -- prompting a Google software engineer to tweet that "drones are fun until someone flies one into high-voltage power lines." They added later that "apparently the owner 'fled in a white hatchback', which is the least dignified way that someone can flee, I think."
As someone impacted by the outage... (Score:5, Informative)
I thought I'd shed some details I witnessed as it happened. I live on Hope St, which is about 1.5 miles from from Polaris Ave. This is what I saw:
1. Incident happened at 20:14 PDT (UTC-0700),
2. Effects were: immediate loss of power, ~0.5 second delay, restoration of power, ~0.5 second delay, restoration of power, ~1-2 second delay, brown-out (as in incandescent lights at half brightness) for ~2-3 full seconds, restoration of power. My UPSes kicked on during this event. Black-outs are one thing, but a brown-out is serious and dangerous. I wonder what the input AC voltage was at the time, same with the waveform. Probably not pretty,
3. For many in Mountain View, this impacted Comcast service for about 1.5 hours. Comcast's nodes have in-line equipment (on utility poles or underground (varies per block/area)) which are powered directly off of PG&E wiring on the same utility pole (or underground). Some of the equipment is battery-backed, some is not; and those which *are*, many of the batteries do not hold a charge any longer (i.e. have been neglected). No idea if power conditioning equipment is used. In this case, I have a feeling a piece of equipment fried/failed due to item #2,
4. Restoration of Comcast service was at 21:34 PDT. Comcast appears to have routed around the failed equipment (at the cable network level); my signal levels were substantially different after the workaround was put in place,
5. Further Comcast repair was done the following day (2017/06/09) at roughly 04:58 PDT and lasted until 05:04. Signal loss was seen during this time; my guess is network/maintenance reverted the workaround from several hours prior. Signal levels were restored to normal values after this.
About drones in general: in the past 3-4 weeks, I've seen several of these being operated *at night* within my local area. There's no way to easily identify who or where the operator is, but noticing the drone is easiest due to sound -- the best analogy is to that of a swarm of bees, except slightly higher in octave. The first time I heard this, I thought "why are bees swarming at night? Wait a minute, what's that thing with blinking red LEDs in the sky? Drones, sigh. Why at night?!?!"
A 500g destroyed the power grid??!! (Score:3)
From your article looks like a loss of power for a few seconds.
Here down under we have possums that use the power lines as highways. Every so often one gets fried, trips the breakers for a few seconds. But no way a possum could shut down the high voltage transmission lines, it would just be vaporized.
And I reckon the story is a beat up, because a possum is much heavier than a plastic drone with maybe a few grams of metal in it.
I did once hit transmission lines with a Glider cable. I was driving the winch
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Secondly the powerlines can be hidden underground. There is a reliable technology already to transfer electricity via underground cables. It is still 1.5 times more expensive, but only because it is not widely used yet.
If they build the powerlines underground it would be a good news not only for migratory birds, home owneres, but also for helicopter pilots http://aviationweek.com/busine... [aviationweek.com]
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LV transmission is 1.5x more expensive underground.
HV transmission is closer to an order of magnitude more expensive.
Re: As someone impacted by the outage... (Score:5, Informative)
The reason I keep track of this is because a) I communicate with the maint/network manager at Comcast when it comes to outages and they like exact times of outages/restorations (to see if they line up with when their techs did something), and b) PG&E has tried the "if you don't know what exact time it happened we can't really investigate if something happened thus cannot give you a credit" approach too many times with me (the last major incident was in December 2013 when one of their utility poles fell over due to the pole base being rotten -- they denied the incident until photos of the pole, fried electronics/equipment (including ceiling fans, hot water kettles, etc.), PG&E trucks holding up the pole, and full timeline documentation were shoved in their faces).
It's become more or less habit for me to do this when dealing with large corporations, especially when electric/gas companies are involved. Their claims dept. operate in pure CYA mode and won't budge unless you're precise and document *everything*.
I'm not autistic nor do I have Asperger's syndrome. Yup, I'm a bit OCD, but it comes with the territory of being an engineer myself.
This is why I support mandatory drone registration (Score:3)
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Drone insurance (Score:5, Informative)
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You sound like the morons in the city that forcibly removed my favorite sailplane airport. The community and city couldn't understand how an aircraft could stay in the air without an engine and thus the place had to be shut down because it was deemed to risky to have sailplanes flying over houses.
What made it worse, they were flabbergasted how 10-14 yearold kids were allowed to fly these death contraptions by themselves! The horror! The long term affect of this now we don't have natural pilots.
What can rules achieve? (Score:2)
Really? How did the FAA rules and regulations prevent this from happening?
Hmm (Score:2)
"The FAA has rules and regulations in place to prevent this exact type of incident from happening,"
Whiles technically true this is ultimately a meaningless statement. From what I gather from the article the only regulation not being followed was flying within 5 miles of an airport and that had absolutely no impact on the crash at all. The drone could just have easily been far enough away from an airport following all the regulations and still crashed into a power line due to any number of reasons. It's true that breaking that regulation can cause accidents to happen but it didn't cause this accident.
T
Remote control vehicles (Score:3)
I was too young at the time to notice, but anyone know if there was this kind of "lets-ban-all-evil-things!" reaction when remote control cars first became available to average consumers?
Is this a natural reaction to something new, or is there really a never before seen level of danger with tiny unmanned drones in the skies above us?
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I was too young at the time to notice, but anyone know if there was this kind of "lets-ban-all-evil-things!" reaction when remote control cars first became available to average consumers?
Is this a natural reaction to something new, or is there really a never before seen level of danger with tiny unmanned drones in the skies above us?
The difference is that RC airplanes used to be fairly expensive and required enough talent to build and fly them. I was at a store last week and there was a quad-copter with controller for sale for $70. It had auto landing, auto-leveling and a setting to set it to maintain a specified altitude.
The first time I flew an RC airplane, around 40 years ago, you couldn't by the controller for that little. You might have been able to buy a very low powered gas engine for a glider/trainer type plane. but you'd stil
These lDIOTS (Score:2)
Re:These lDIOTS (Score:5, Insightful)
Been flying R/C for 30 years
So you've been flying since a time where drones were very different to what they are now. Let me catch you up with what has happened in the last 29 years: Drones are now up down left right forward backwards controls with no skill required.
You never catch R/C people flying their stuff around power lines
Sorry but horseshit. Drones hitting power lines are nothing new. The R/C crowd has had idiots since the R/C crowd existed. The only difference is there's more people in total now that the price and the required skillset has come down.
Re: These lDIOTS (Score:2)
In the 1980s, I lived on base. A bunch us did. For simplicity, I will say we invested in an RC plane. It was gasoline powered and the guy with the radio needed a HAM license. We didn't care. We crashed that thing until it could fly no more. In fact, there were temporary rules about it.
Point being, there was no magical group preventing our bad behavior. I'm pretty sure we did not even join a club. We did for rockets, but we were kinda worse with those.
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Right? I'm almost 100% certain that there are still base-specific rules (not regulations, there's a difference) that apply to RC aircraft - including planes, helicopters, and rockets. I know, beyond all reasonable doubt - as in I recollect the changes, that they enacted rules, per the OOD, or higher, that prohibited us from continued use of the devices while on base.
And that was the end of our fun. Except, I believe the rules ONLY applied over certain areas and that we were still okay for anywhere but thing
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I don't even know? LOL I really don't. Umm... Wanna see a picture?
BLARGH!!! [imgur.com]
It's kinda amusing to see people who see that image and then try to establish what "side" they think I'm on. I ain't even got a Trump hat. I don't even know, anymore. I'm half convinced the whole world went insane without me. (Really, click the link. It'll maybe make you giggle - and who doesn't need a giggle?)
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I agree. I was countering the OP's point that there was some mysterious group who forbade us. Nah... We were hellions.
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No... the idiots get expelled from the R/C crowd
There was no such crowd. A hobby is a hobby. There was never a requirement to get matching tattoos and drink the blood of the fallen once a week. There was no secret Illuminati membership required to go to the hobby store and buy parts to build your device.
I therefore conclude you are some trans dimensional traveller. Welcome to our world. We are far more liberal here.
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Many areas have long regulated radio controlled aircraft - mine, certainly. Membership in the Academy of Model Aeronautics, adherence to its rules, payment of dues, insurance, and even enforcement by police who visit regularly.
Flying in any unsanctioned area (including parks, school yards, etc) is prohibited by law. And in the sanctioned areas, AMA membership is required and enforced – you get carded in order to fly.
And this is in a very conservative, anti-government area of the states.
So yeah, a lot
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Many areas have long regulated radio controlled aircraft - mine, certainly. Membership in the Academy of Model Aeronautics, adherence to its rules, payment of dues, insurance, and even enforcement by police who visit regularly.
Okay sorry we get it. I didn't realise you lived in the Soviet Russia. Meanwhile the rest of the known world is nothing at all like you describe, and wtf is the Academy of Model Aeronautics? I mean I have been flying for 20 years but this one is new to me.
And this is in a very conservative, anti-government area of the states.
Yeah I can tell.
So yeah, a lot in the "old" RC aircraft hobby are very unhappy
Old generation unhappy about new generation, news at 11. Sorry but that doesn't change the fact that the hobby has always had it's set of careless idiots. I too could be a licensed electrician, but instead I chose to play with electronics a
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wtf is the Academy of Mode Awronautics/quote>
The AMA is the model aircraft equivalent of the NRA; founded in 1936. Around 200,000 active members, and serves as a liason between the hobby, the FCC, the FAA, congress and local governments. They also run a liability insurance program, and are the only reason model aircraft are even allowed in the United States.
Saying you've been flying for 20 years and haven't heard of the AMA is about as realistic as saying you've been shooting for 20 years and haven't heard of the NRA. You can't walk into an RC model shop without seeing the AMA logo, or a bin with application forms.
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I was being partially facetious. But then I don't see anyone needing to go asking the NRA for permission every time they want to fire their gun either. But also no one here gives a shit about the NRA either because as hard as it to believe the world is much larger than the USA, and frankly I couldn't care less about the FCC, FAA or your congress either (hence the partially bit).
Speaking of the FCC aren't they the ones specifically who aren't regulating the model drones. You have a very VERY inflated view of
Of course he fled (Score:2)
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Just a drone... (Score:2)
I would be more concern if it was a sniper shooting at power transformers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalf_sniper_attack [wikipedia.org]
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I would be concerned if you learned to spell...
I'll let my spelt checker know.
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A *spell* checker won't check your *grammar*, nippledick.
WOOSH!
A *spelt* checker is probably like an inspector at a grain factory.
Spelt is the British variation of spelled.
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Is *woosh* [sic] the sound of intelligence leaving your brain?
That's your sense of humor being expelled from your ass.
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I do know that you can't spell, and often skip words in your sentences.
No one does an editorial process for random comments.
Not a great confidence builder in your "personal brand" (WTF) as an author.
My personal brand didn't come into play until some asshats decided to abuse it for shake and giggles. Things have calmed down quite a bit after Slashdot management deleted five user accounts at my request.
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Your imaginary life is like a Mexican soap opera!
Where the asshat gets shot in the stomach by scorned woman.
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And what would you know about women, scorned or otherwise?
More than you can imagine.
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Why do you set yourself up for massive failure? All. The. Fucking. Time?
If you have to ask that question, than you nothing about success.
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Why would that concern you more?
Nut with a sniper rifle is far more dangerous than a nut with disposable drones.
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So in other words, you're just talking to hear yourself talk?
If I wanted to hear myself talk, I wouldn't be writing comments on Slashdot. However, I do have a YouTube channel [youtube.com]. Once I figured out my angle for vlogging (which won't be anytime soon), you too can hear me talk as well. Don't forget to comment, like and subscribe. Thank you for giving me another opportunity to promote my personal brand.
I can't wait to read the next article about the grid [...]
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-power-grid-20170315-story.html [latimes.com]
It is not a drone in the article photo (Score:2)
Drones (RPAS) can deliver urgent parcels with documents, cash for banks, etc. and by this realistically free roads from traffic jams, significantly reduce fossil fuel consumption, so naturally the automobile lobby and their clients are concerned.
That is why the FAA issues 700 pages prohibiting regulations for RPASs. But it is hard to do not having a single photo of a docu
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Why did it burn?
Because lithium batteries carry a lot of energy, and when enough abuse happens (running into power lines will definitely do it) they go into a runaway thermal reaction, and that energy is released.
There was even a Tesla Model S burst into flames in a wreck.
I've seen my share of lithium batteries bursting into flame in electric model aircraft.
Just because it's electric doesn't mean it can't cause a fire.
"to prevent this exact type of incident" (Score:2)
"The FAA has rules and regulations in place to prevent this exact type of incident from happening,"
Well, it looks like they work great.
Good job, FAA! Keep up the good work on those regulations! Glad they prevented this mishap!
We should regulate against heart attacks next! Think of the lives that it will save!
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Good job "not being a troll" https://games.slashdot.org/com... [slashdot.org]
Re:Simple question (Score:5, Interesting)
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Citizens shouldn't have to justify why they need or even just want drones (or guns);
I've heard Americans use that word 'citizens' a few times. What does citizenship have to do with it? Citizenship for voting, OK, but what does it matter for getting a license? You don't even need to be a citizen to join the US military.
the onus is on the state to come up with reasons why we shouldn't have them.
Surely that part is obvious. Guns can be dangerous. It is normal to regulate dangerous things.
Now if the state wants to regulate these things because of problems, that's fine. Require a license. Require registration. Whatever.
OK, we are on the same page. But licensing implies limits on who can have them. And regulation also means limiting the kinds of weapons.
We need to balance public vs private interest
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Not all ranges are indoors... do you know what you're talking about?
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Over here, semi-auto civilian versions of military weapons are often called "assault rifles" as well. ...
Only by people who have no clue what they're talking about or who are intentionally trying to mislead others.
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"Assault Rifle By U.S. Army definition, a selective-fire rifle chambered for a cartridge of intermediate power. If applied to any semi-automatic firearm regardless
Re: Simple question (Score:2)
I suppose it will only complicate things if I mention that I own two firearms which one can call assault weapons. There is a bit of effort that goes into such. I suppose they'd be confused that none of them are used for criminal activity. Even statistically... You're more likely to harm yourself with the sheets on your bed.
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If I want to be pedantic, both weapons (I'm pretty sure) also qualify for the title of "assault rifle."
To keep it simple, and short, I have an M-14 and a Chinese made AK-47, made in 1968. I have posted pics of both. Depending on which definitions they're using, they are either "assault weapons" or "assault rifles."
The only time they (usually) get taken out is when I take them to a "machine-gun shoot." It used to be open to the public, but insurance kinda stopped that. We still hold it and all proceeds go to
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... our favorite shooter is a guy we have to "steal" from the VA.
Can he also fly any aircraft ever made, and does he answer to the name "Mad Dog"?
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Fuck no. He can piss himself, on command, and can still strip an M1 down - without actually looking. No, really, he can piss himself on command - or without command. He deserves some privacy so I'll skip mentioning his name. He's big on pissing his pants. But, he can strip an M1 down and put it back together. He's also grouchy - all the time.
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The M14 is not an assault rifle, the 308 (7.62x51) i
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Re:Simple question (Score:4, Interesting)
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Full auto rifles don't cost nearly $70k, you can get them for under $10k
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Re: Simple question (Score:2)
$70K? You're high. I can get you two Thompsons, for that. Hell, I can get you three and still make a profit.
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I don't know. You might think that I'd be the most knowledgeable person about firearms. I'm not.
I have two classed firearms. As I mentioned in another post, I have an M-14 and a Chinese made AK-47. It gets confusing because the Chinese sold that model to the Vietnamese and the model was called the M-60. It's really just an AK-47 and isn't even very well made.
That said, I'm not an encyclopedia of firearm knowledge. I'm betting that you're more right than I, 99% of the time - should we have to argue firearms.
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And in the gun-control hell that is Europe, all you have to do is join a militia, and they will give you a real assault rifle for free to keep in your home.
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Fucking assault rifle is a made up term.
Well I reckon all terms are invented by someone, however don't conflate assault weapon, which is a vague and mercurial term, with assault rifle, which is strictly defined by organizations such as the US Army. They are similar sounding but vastly different.
Re: Simple question (Score:4, Informative)
Re: Simple question (Score:4, Informative)
You should stop while you're way behind
Re: I was pretty sure an assault rifle was... (Score:2)
You were pretty wrong.
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"Assault Rifle By U.S. Army definition, a selective-fire rifle chambered for a cartridge of intermediate power. If applied to any semi-automatic firearm regardless of its cosmetic similarity to a true assault rifle, the term is incorrect." - https://www.nraila.org/about/g... [nraila.org]
I guess that's why you're an AC
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Blah blah blah.
The federal government has thousands of nuclear weapons, I've only got three.
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Just because your life is free of the fear from random gun violence does not mean everyone else is so fortunate. Your argument is based solely on your social privilege, which is why your analogies are so blindingly stupid. You just insulted everyone who has to fac
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Fucking millennial dumbass.
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Re: Simple question (Score:2)
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Re: Simple question (Score:2)
I've actually heard a few proposals along the lines that you suggest, but none of them account for guns illegally smuggled across the border or stolen from law enforcement and military personnel, or how we defend ourselves against nations with guns if we take guns out of the hands of our military and law enforceme
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As someone with ties to law enforcement, I can tell you that the reality is far from what the media would have you believe. When you've actually had a beer with someone who stopped a trunk-full of hand made Colt 1911 clones from illegally crossing the border, then you can talk to me about how many illegal guns enter th
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You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Learn what a ghost gun is, where and how they're made, and hoe many of them end up in the US on a given day, thank come talk to me.
Either you are a liar or an idiot. Ghost guns are not prevalent. They aren't even a rounding error in crime statistics. They are a toy that makes gun nuts feel powerful by making them. Either you don't know anything about them, or you are lying about it. Either way, your delusions and lies won't change reality, and the mind of an evil person like yourself is unchangeable.
Re: Simple question (Score:2)
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Once a place has high crime and lots of gun murders, does gun control increase or decrease crime? That's irrelevant to the existence of places that aren't in the same gun/crime quadrant.
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It's not irrelevant - bans and regulations tend to be applied to all quadrants, needed or not.
So a ban on guns in NYC affects Houston? Please explain in more detail.
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Can anyone justify drones being legal? The answer is no. Nobody here can even provide a valid answer as to why they need a drone.
Can anyone justify skateboards being legal? The answer is no. Nobody here can even provide a vaid answer as to why they need a skateboard.
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There needs to be a compelling reason to restrict freedom. What compelling reason is there to prevent me from flying a drone within my own house?
Re:privilege shaming (Score:5, Funny)
Respect is earned, not thrown into the back of a white hatchback and hauled off to somewhere people don't know where you got it from.
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Respect is earned, not thrown into the back of a white hatchback and hauled off to somewhere people don't know where you got it from.
Ah-ha! It was O.J. Simpson! He's at it again!
It's too bad that CNN didn't get cover the slow-speed getaway. They could have streamed it live . . . from a camera drone!
That would have been proper justice.
Re:The only dignified way to flee.. (Score:5, Funny)
No, it's in a tank. Just ask the Italian army.
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If you'd bothered to read the respected scholarly journal you linked to you'd see it doesn't really back up your points at all.
And at least we end a war on the same side we started on, you retarded spaghettifresser.
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Sigh.
Some British cities were pretty hard-hit by the Luftwaffe. More German cities were much harder hit by Bomber Command. Britain was never in serious danger of successful invasion. By the time US forces arrived in strength in Europe and the Med, the Axis was losing.
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Ever looked at the prospects of invading Britain in WWII? In 1940, which was their best chance, German planning treated the English Channel as a particularly wide river. While the British Army was seriously short on heavy equipment, it was pretty strong in manpower, so a successful invasion would have to be in force. It would need to be supplied, and the appropriate ports were rigged for demolition. German bombers were not good at attacking shipping in this period, so the RN was able to keep three or f
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Sure. None of them were over a large body of water that was patrolled by a much superior navy. Even Norway doesn't fall into that class, as the British were pretty much unable to interfere with the shipping to southern Norway. Germany sent a force to capture Narvik which did have to go through British-accessible waters. The force was destroyed and Narvik retaken, a
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You must be one of those "jet fuel fire cannot melt steel, 9-11 was a controlled demolition" guys.
Power line went down. Police found the charred remains of a drone at the site. Witnesses (plural) living in the area said they saw a guy flying a drone in the area. Therefore the conclusion that a drone caused the event.
Sounds like a simple, rational explanation to me. But please feel free to indulge in fanciful far-fetching conspiracies all you want. Just don't share it with normal people.
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The RC crowd can be quite crazy when it comes to size, there are even 1:1 scale models.
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It can bridge between two phase conductors. Or between one phase and a grounded structure like a pole or crossarm.
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Which will cause an arc, which will trip a breaker, which will autoreset in few tens of seconds.
It had to be one of those million to one things. Broke an insulator and let one phase droop or something like that.
Aerobatic pilots used to throw toilet paper over transmission lines, so they could see where the lines were when playing about them (morons). They thought it was all fun, but the TP would collect dew and arc the next early morning. Took time and money to figure it out. To their credit, the pilot
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At around 20 kV, the wires from the motors will make fine conductors. And a few millimeters of plastic that drones are made of means nothing.
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Re: In SOVIET Dronistan (Score:5, Informative)
An AR-15 is not an assault weapon. The term 'assault rifle' originally referred to a battle rifle that fires fully automatically but is lightweight. The AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle that looks like an particular assault rifle (the M16) but is not itself an assault rifle.
The use of the term 'assault weapon' applied to the AR-15 seems to have followed an arc from "assault-type rifle" (based on its appearance but admitting that it wasn't actually an assault rifle), to leaving off the "-type" but adding on "weapon" in order to avoid the argument that it isn't an assault *rifle*. This seems like a rather disingenuous ploy to confuse the public.
If you want to argue that people shouldn't own rifles that shoot centerfire rifle cartridges, or shouldn't own rifles that exceed a certain level of muzzle energy or just muzzle velocity, then we can have that argument, and we'll include all available firearms that have those capabilities. But to get all hot and bothered about the appearance of the firearm seems pointless to me. The Clinton Crime Bill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act [wikipedia.org] included a provision to ban certain types of firearms that have come to be called "assault weapons". The ban also included a provision to track the use of these weapons for crimes. It is my understanding that the sunset provision for the ban was not blocked in part because no significant use of these weapons in crimes was found.
As for drones, and as far as "ordinary people" are concerned, I'm not sure the many people using drones for useful purposes would agree with your cavalier assessment that they don't need them. I have a friend with a drone business who provides a service to local farmers to assess the conditions of their fields using the drone. This saves the farmers a lot of time while providing them with a much more comprehensive view of their fields than they could achieve otherwise.
I'm not thrilled with some of the annoying things people do with drones any more than I'm thrilled about how some people use ATVs, personal watercraft, motorcycles, weed whackers, blowers, and other such devices, but they do have useful purposes, and many many people use them carefully and within legal limits. Let's enforce existing laws against the misuse of technology, whether its firearms or drones, but let's not go around making things illegal without evidence that they are a significant problem.
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Flying cars are *loud*. Very loud. Far louder than residents will tolerate.
You can't push that much air around quietly. A small helicopter can be heard from miles away. Ditto with even small single engine aircraft.
Flying cars would make every neighborhood even noisier than the ones currently next to airports.
And that doesn't even touch the aspect of people being scared of airplanes falling from the sky constantly.
We can do a decent job at making machines that are not going to fail easily. We are not, howeve