Cloudflare Stops Supporting Neo-Nazi Site The Daily Stormer (arstechnica.com) 486
Timothy B. Lee reports via Ars Technica: All week, the infamous hate site Daily Stormer has been battling to stay online in the face of a concerted social media campaign to shut it down. The site lost its "dailystormer.com" domain on Monday after first GoDaddy and then Google Domains blacklisted it from their domain registration services. The site re-appeared online on Wednesday morning at a new domain name, dailystormer.ru. But within hours, the site had gone offline again after it was dropped by Cloudflare, an intermediary that defends customers against denial-of-service attacks. Daily Stormer's Andrew Anglin reported Cloudflare's decision to drop the site in a post on the social media site Gab. His post was first spotted by journalist Matthew Sheffield.
Huh? (Score:4, Interesting)
Has Cloudflare released a statement on this? Because...this is at odds with their previous behavior, and I want to know if it's just a one-off 'if you beat us hard enough, we'll do things' or if they've actually changed their mind. Because I'd kind of like them to stop helping DDOS providers.
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Because I'd kind of like them to stop helping DDOS providers.
Assuming this statement is true, why would they do that? It would cut off a source of business given they provide "protection".
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Because I'd kind of like them to stop helping DDOS providers.
Assuming this statement is true, why would they do that? It would cut off a source of business given they provide "protection".
I'm referencing Krebs on Security on that one - he's pointed out several times that CloudFlare does in fact seem to have a protection racket running there. That's why I'm curious whether they've turned over a new leaf (perhaps not EVERYONE should be our customer), or whether this is a one-off.
You are almost certainly correct on why they do it, of course.
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Good question
Another good question: was dailystormer a paying customer, or was it in Cloudflare's free tier? (I mention it as I've used the free tier before)
If they were in the free tier, it's not too different from dropping the free service they gave to Brian Krebs before someone tried to DDOS his site offline for weeks at a time. (I.e. It's hard to justify the cost of maintaining service for a customer that pays nothing)
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Interesting)
They put up a blog post explaining their decision [cloudflare.com] a little while ago.
I take some umbrage at Cloudflare's rationale. Their position regarding this site, as well as various other sites, seems to be "we're just a proxy." The issue with that defense is that by proxying for a site, the Cloudflare service hides and obfuscates whatever provider is actually hosting the content. This is a) by design, and b) necessary in order to make the DDoS protection effective. That doesn't make it any less problematic.
Cloudflare wants to pass the buck somewhere else in the "infrastructure stack," as they call it, and I don't necessarily disagree that what amounts to a glorified transit provider is the wrong place to be implementing blocks. But given the very nature of Cloudflare's service, how does one figure out where else to complain? When a site is using Cloudflare, all roads dead end in Cloudflare's network. The site's name servers are in the cloudflare.com domain. The site's A records are inside Cloudflare IP space. Cloudflare is the primary visible service provider in these scenarios, whether they host any content or not.
Case in point, I've watched this story play out with some interest over the past couple of days. I still have no idea where Daily Stormer's content was actually being hosted. It almost certainly would have violated the AUP/TOS of that hosting provider, and they probably would have terminated the site directly. But with Cloudflare in the way, no one knows who to complain to.
When your business model is being a black-box opaque front for all comers, don't be surprised when the world directs its anger at you.
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
The only group that should censor is the courts, when ever corporations take it up themselves to be above the courts, to rule beyond the courts, it always works out much worse for us. Not happy with 'Daily Stormer' than take it too fucking court, corporations are not the fucking government. Want to take someone down, want to censor them, take it to court.
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Their stated reason (from your link) seems reasonable:
"The tipping point for us making this decision was that the team behind Daily Stormer made the claim that we were secretly supporters of their ideology."
They were willing to proxy the site until the owners started claiming that Cloudflare were secret Nazis.
While these guys are nutters.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sadly we can chalk up another 'win' to groupthink, oppression of minorities, and censorship.
Really, isn't the best way to fight such complete stupidity to keep it in the open?
Isn't censoring such people just making them feel more targeted, and therefore strengthening their solidarity?
All this has done is give a bunch of disenfranchised idiots more reason to hate..
Shine a light on them, don't chase them away to skulk in the dark, where they will do what they will do without anyone watching.
Re:While these guys are nutters.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm reserving judgement on this one since Stormfront is a bunch of whackos, but I don't like the general precedent being set here. Haven't looked, but I bet Antifa and BLM websites sit behind Cloudflare also. Where is the outrage for those folks? Last I checked it's been a while since any neo-nazis organized riots and burned down noticeable portions of big cities.
A business should be allowed to decide if it wants to take money from someone or not. That being said, why should a bakery be forced to bake a
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by "antifa" you mean "everyone who is not a nazi"
No, by "antifa" you mean, "People who deliberately plan and carry out violence and destruction to intimidate and silence those who don't share the ideological groupthink of their masters and defenders on the left." And, "People who are applauded in campus newspaper editorials for beating other people bloody and unconscious for wanting to attend an event featuring a speaker that isn't slavishly obeying every SJW edict and requirement."
Only disingenuous liberal tools consider anyone who isn't a violent a
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Re:While these guys are nutters.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Businesses have no responsibility to provide services to such a group and it isn't oppression or censorship to refuse them service, in fact it would be oppression and censorship to force them to support them.
This is exactly right. However, infrastructure business have a responsibility to uphold free speech. They have shown extremely poor judgement by caving to pressure to suppress. Sorry, that is not going to work. And in fact, if history is a lesson, trying to stamp this out in this fashion is insane. These kinds of groups just become more hateful, radical, violent and provocative. If they can't speak, then they will act.
Let them have their wretched little website to spew hatred at each other. At least then we know who and where they are. Society is playing with fire here, repeating past mistakes.
Let me make a sort of messy analogy. Just pretend for a minute highways and streets were privately owned. This would be the equivalent of saying these people can't drive on your streets, period. And not only that, they're not even allowed to have an address on a street. Does that really sound like something we want to say we did to someone else? And pretend it's somehow a "good thing"? Really?
Re: While these guys are nutters.. (Score:2, Informative)
You wanna talk about redefinition?
Censorship's original definition applies only to government.
Kicking someone out of your business is not censorship in any interpretation.
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oh, quit it. we all know what censorship DOES and what its INTENT is.
fuck what the 'dictionary definition' is.
the gist is: the powerful have the ability to silence those that they don't agree with.
in modern amerika, there is no difference (or damned little) between the KIND and AMOUNT of power held by government and big corps.
as long as its a big guy using his strength to silence a little guy, its censorship. the 'old' def is no longer accurate and to quote it is a misguided way to deflect what's going on
Re:While these guys are nutters.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:While these guys are nutters.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Someones never been on the daily stormer, or browsed comments on far-right websites. Did you know that an internet archive exists?
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I mean, in a more typical case, they would have recourse. They could just go elsewhere for their hosting and domain name services.
These specific assholes will have a hard time doing that, of course, because they are a notorious hate group, and everybody, including you, knows it. But if their status as a hate group was questionable or incorrect, somebody else would likely be happy to take their money.
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These specific assholes will have a hard time doing that, of course, because they are a notorious hate group, and everybody, including you, knows it.
They would have to work harder, yes, but not that much harder. The world is full of service providers who would be happy to take their money.
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I'll host them.
No problem. I only accept Bitcoin and they're likely to not like my data retention and uptime policies though...
*heh*
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Only if you're not technical enough to hit the dark web. Daily Stormer's not going anywhere, they're just changing addresses.
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See, you and I have been told that "The Daily Stormer" has been censored and must be removed from our view because it was hateful.
Not really. You and I have been told that there are certain groups of people who would prefer not to be associated with The Daily Stormer.
The Daily Stormer can certainly stay up and remain accessible. They just can't do it with the support of those groups.
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It might be modded up, now that most of the Google employees have gone home for the day.
Re:While these guys are nutters.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sadly we can chalk up another 'win' to groupthink, oppression of minorities, and censorship.
Really, isn't the best way to fight such complete stupidity to keep it in the open?
Explain. This is not keeping people from putting their Blood and Soil and the Holocaust was a liberal Jewish hoax and Lets go here because there are some liberals gathering" websites on the internet, it is telling them that "we" aren't going to host it.
The Brave young Aryans are completely free to sign up with any service that will have them. Or even better, start one of their own, where they can spread their messages without having to worry about Liberals. In fact, they can deny those liberals access to their servers then, an obvious win.
Isn't censoring such people just making them feel more targeted, and therefore strengthening their solidarity?
First, it isn't censorship, and second, many of the people in these organizations are drawn to them because they feel disenfranchised, or have a deep seated need for hatred.
All this has done is give a bunch of disenfranchised idiots more reason to hate..
Shine a light on them, don't chase them away to skulk in the dark, where they will do what they will do without anyone watching.
Sounds like a demand for support of any group that feels marginalized. Sometimes groups are marginalized for a reason. Both of these groups have committed some serious crimes, either on a semi local level for the White Supremacists, or on a global scale, such as Nazis. And people who provide services for other people are allowed to deny service to others, except in certain narrowly defined circumstances. Good luck in the real world trying to convince most of America that they have to support either of those groups. You have a President who supports them - what more could you ask for?
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ouch
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Do you really think their site continuing unabated as-is would be "shining a light on them"? It would just continue to give them their dark corner of the web to flourish in, while the rest of us blissfully ignore whatever racist bullshit propaganda was being spread over there.
Now, I wouldn't advocate for a government crackdown, because I'm a big believer in the first amendment, bu
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Now, I wouldn't advocate for a government crackdown, because I'm a big believer in the first amendment
You believe in the first amendment, but you don't believe in free speech. You want them silenced because you don't agree with what they say.
The only reason you are ok with them being silenced is because you don't like what they are saying. You are a hypocrite first class. You should go into politics.
Re:While these guys are nutters.. (Score:5, Insightful)
There's "censorship", and then there's "you're an asshole, and association with you will hurt my reputation, so I won't do business with you".
It's not like an ISP is proactively blocking people who want to read this site's content, or the government is forcing people to abandon him. The free market is acting.
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There's "censorship", and then there's "you're an asshole, and association with you will hurt my reputation, so I won't do business with you".
It's not like an ISP is proactively blocking people who want to read this site's content, or the government is forcing people to abandon him. The free market is acting.
Exactly this; obligatory xkcd explaining the difference between censorship and freedom of speech [xkcd.com].
As the "hover text" on the xkcd image says, "defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express"
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I know you're trolling, but the federal government has well defined protected classes [wikipedia.org], and being a Nazi sure as shit isn't among them.
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Did you miss the part about "government" in the parent's post?
Gender is a protected class, as is race. You're talking about something which has legal protection, the exact opposite of the post what you are reply to.
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Sadly we can chalk up another 'win' to groupthink, oppression of minorities, and censorship.
Really, isn't the best way to fight such complete stupidity to keep it in the open?
Yes
Isn't censoring such people just making them feel more targeted, and therefore strengthening their solidarity?
Yes
All this has done is give a bunch of disenfranchised idiots more reason to hate..
And yes
Shine a light on them, don't chase them away to skulk in the dark, where they will do what they will do without anyone watching.
Careful, that independent thought will get you into trouble with our groupthink overlords.
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Once you've reached the point where you sport a swastika armband and Nazi flag and throw up Nazi salutes and call for Jews to be put in ovens, you've pretty much reached peak hate. I don't think Cloudflare dropping the Daily Stormer is going to cause them to get a +1 Hate added to their stats because the Hate stat is pretty much capped at "Nazi".
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Oppression, however, should never be the answer.
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With the original Nazis, oppression was definitely the answer.
You think those soldiers that landed on Normandy were there to engage in civil discourse with the Nazis?
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Really, isn't the best way to fight such complete stupidity to keep it in the open?
Isn't censoring such people just making them feel more targeted, and therefore strengthening their solidarity?
All this has done is give a bunch of disenfranchised idiots more reason to hate..
No it's not. Leaving them happily in the open gives them legitimacy and a way to spread their message. They are already disenfranchised, and they already hate. But cutting them off they won't hate any more. What it will do is separate the actual haters and neo-nazi from the part time weekend warriors who have nothing better to do than join the angry rant of the day.
These groups will always exist. But it's quite important that they stay in the minority and in the underground rather than allowing them to mass
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What it will do is separate the actual haters and neo-nazi from the part time weekend warriors
Don't be so sure. I have some trailer park dwelling redneck relatives who are already upset about Confederate monuments being torn down (which is what started all of this), and the way the alt-right is being treated by tech companies, and portrayed by the media, is generating sympathy from them.
They may not go out and riot, but they sure as heck aren't going to vote for a Democrat in 2020. The Democrats need to start focusing on real issues like healthcare and jobs, instead of stupid symbolism like monume
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They may not go out and riot, but they sure as heck aren't going to vote for a Democrat in 2020.
And those are precisely the kind of neo-nazi-lite groups that should be separated from the primary group's recruitment service.
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...and the way the alt-right is being treated by tech companies, and portrayed by the media, is generating sympathy from them.
The first thing the media should stop doing is calling them "alt-right". Call them Nazis and stop being PC. Now see if those neighbors are still sympathetic.
they sure as heck aren't going to vote for a Democrat in 2020.
Clue: They weren't going to vote democrat before this weekend either.
The Democrats need to start focusing on real issues like healthcare and jobs,
I don't know where you've been, but the Dems have been focusing on healthcare. You may not like ACA (clue: the dems don't either) but it's a far sight better than the 8 years in the making set of Republican healthcare plans we just witnessed.
As for jobs, you don't think those just ju
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The first thing the media should stop doing is calling them "alt-right". Call them Nazis and stop being PC. Now see if those neighbors are still sympathetic.
That will almost certainly make them more sympathetic, because it will reinforce everything they already believe about the MSM. Progressives are called "communists" by Fox News. Does that make you less sympathetic toward progressives? Or does it make you feel Fox News is not credible?
Clue: They weren't going to vote democrat before this weekend either.
I think you are dead wrong. There are many Trump voters that are sympathetic to progressive issues like economic justice, access to healthcare, and less inequality in education. But they also feel the Democrats are insulti
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Just because you remove them from the public eye, does not make them disappear. It does not eliminate their message. They will adapt.
Does it send a message? Yes it does. It says that a majority of the people do not believe in their BS and would prefer not for it to be public. But it will not solve the real underlying problem of why they exist in the first place. Thi
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Now we as a community will never know who, what or even when they may cause mayhem again.
Tor is not an impenetrable fortress. We can still actively monitor them.
It does not eliminate their message.
You are right, but we as a race are quite slack. The people dedicated to the cause will join the group wherever they go, however there is none the less a large majority of people who will not put the effort in and thus will be separated from the message. There's a reason politicians advertise in prime-time TV slots. It reaches more people than a website, which reaches far more people still than making someone download Tor and go find a
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Re:While these guys are nutters.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Do you have an historical example of this working? I mean, there may well be some, but none come to mind.
If you shine a light on some bugs and they scurry under a rock, you can then blow up the rock and problem solved. You don't beat the bugs by inviting them into your house.
Nazis are cockroaches. When you promote genocide by idolizing genocide that already happened you forfeit your right to be part of civil society.
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Nazis are cockroaches. When you promote genocide by idolizing genocide that already happened you forfeit your right to be part of civil society.
And who gets to set the bar for what is permissible discourse for participation in a free society. You? The anti-defamation league? The corporate gatekeepers to the internet?
This, on the heels of witnessing someone getting railroaded and smeared for challenging the ideological dogma of one of the largest gatekeepers. Free speech, whether at political rallies or at college campuses or online, is being extinguished, and here you are cheerleading for it.
Cockroaches? More like canaries in the coal mine.
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Sadly we can chalk up another 'win' to groupthink
Or as those monsters at Wikipedia call it, "Society".
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Really, isn't the best way to fight such complete stupidity to keep it in the open?
I don't believe that anymore. That policy has been an abject failure, and seems to have served more as an enabling support group than as a disinfectant.
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I tend to disagree. The more of a platform in the open they have the more effect their propaganda has. Americans are very receptive to propaganda; they've been trained all their life to listen to PR.
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Would your company want the Daily Stormer as a client? I think this is more along the lines of no company wants them as a customer - if you ran a store that had nazi's in it all the time it wouldn't be good for business.
I've worked for big software companies (fortune 50) that have fired customers - it's their right to do so. Typically it goes along the lines of "you're too much of a pain in the ass".
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Sadly we can chalk up another 'win' to groupthink, oppression of minorities, and censorship.
If groupthink is not allowing hate groups access to a privately run service, and oppression of minorities is the same as the way we put criminals in prison, and censorship is like how we don't allowing public sex in school classrooms, then yeah, this is sad...
You make anything sound less harmful than it is by throwing around words like censorship, but ultimately some level of censorship creates a higher quality of life overall. Or Maybe you shouldn't allow that red light to censor your freedom of expressio
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Shine a light on them. Let them shine an even brighter light on themselves. Let the eternal sun shine on them. Then ignore them. They have no power if you truly believe that speech is free because it harms no one.
"Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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Congratulations, you just described Jim Crow.
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Except, in this case, we're talking about literal Nazis.
Anyway, you needn't worry. The Russians were more than happy to provide web services to neo-Nazis and White Supremacists, because Russia has a stellar record of promoting freedom of speech.
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Do you realize that the original Nazis were also just "some loons who put on silly uniforms and acted like they're Nazis"? They were considered just "disaffected white youths" almost until the day they started shipping people to concentration camps.
Here's the thing: when someone tells you they're a Nazi, believe them.
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You'e confusing me with the voices in your head.
Re: While these guys are nutters.. (Score:2)
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Would that be the Gibson Guitars [gibson.com] with the 13 thousand square metre factory in downtown Memphis, Tennesee?
The very same Gibson guitar foundation that was raided found to have used illegally logged Madagascan Ebony? [webcitation.org]
Twice? [soundandfair.org]
Protip: If you have to make shit up to support your position, your position is very probably wrong.
So much for common carrier status (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So much for common carrier status (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, and especially with CloudFlare, I don't think anyone has much of a leg to stand on to take them on. First amendment is a thing that limits the government, not business - they are free to do business (or not) with whoever they choose.
Whether it's a good idea or not, is a separate thing.
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they are free to do business (or not) with whoever they choose.
Almost. There are protected classes which you can not arbitrarily chose to do business with based on a specific set of reasons, e.g. a black person because they are black.
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by taking actions based on viewpoint, they potentially forfeit their ability to claim legal protections as common carriers.
This is, of course, utterly untrue per (ironically) Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act [wikipedia.org]:
Basically, Cloudflare isn't responsible for anyone else's data, even if they sometimes reject serving other traffic.
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Clouflare is not legally classified as a "common carrier", so that's not an issue. Nor, by the way, are domain registrars or web hosting companies.
Dropped like sour kraut (Score:2)
Well I guess the answer to the old question
How do you shut down Hitler's web hosting is
Tie his Cat 5 cables in NAZIS.
Perhaps they should change tactics ... (Score:3)
The site lost its "dailystormer.com" domain on Monday ... The site re-appeared online on Wednesday morning at a new domain name, dailystormer.ru. But within hours, the site had gone offline again after it was dropped by Cloudflare, ...
That's (Score:2)
kind of a shame, I thought Cloudflare didn't take down anything without a warrant.
Now Stop Routing Traffic for Black Hat Groups (Score:2, Interesting)
So Cloudflare won't stand up for speech, but they'll stand up for black hat criminal operations [krebsonsecurity.com]? WTF?
The problem with taking a stance is that now you have to justify why you take action sometimes and not other times. I totally get why Cloudflare would back down here and that's their call.
But if they're going to start policing content, then why the hell are they shutting down the routing of objectionable content, but not clearly criminal content? Along with TOR, they're the haven of choice for Black Hats and
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This is incredible. Their CEO admits he knew he was wrong, but he kicked them off anyway, and double pinky swear he won't do it again.
What a clusterfuck.
Typical lies of the alt-right bubble-brains.
According to the interview with Matthew Prince (Cloudflare CEO), he felt that he had to boot the Daily Stormer from Cloudflare because the Daily Stormer started claiming that Cloudlfare was run by Neo-nazis, and used Cloudflare's refusal to boot them as evidence to support their claims. So they got booted because they made disparaging claims about Cloudflare and personally insulted Matthew Prince, the CEO, by claiming he was one of them.
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According to the interview with Matthew Prince (Cloudflare CEO), he felt that he had to boot the Daily Stormer from Cloudflare because the Daily Stormer started claiming that Cloudlfare was run by Neo-nazis, and used Cloudflare's refusal to boot them as evidence to support their claims.
At first glance, this sounded like bullshit. So I checked, and that is exactly what happened.
From https://blog.cloudflare.com/wh... [cloudflare.com]
The tipping point for us making this decision was that the team behind Daily Stormer made the claim that we were secretly supporters of their ideology.
So, the operators of The Daily Stormer decided to run their mouths about the one company that tolerated their content. Not bright, unless they secretly craved a backwater existence on Tor.
Re: Meanwhile the extreme left is unscathed (Score:3, Insightful)
First they came for the racists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a racist.
Then they came for the sexists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a sexist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for me. And nobody was left to speak up for me.
Re: Meanwhile the extreme left is unscathed (Score:2, Funny)
Then they came for the straight people. You have nothing to worry about.
Re: Meanwhile the extreme left is unscathed (Score:3, Insightful)
I wonder, would you have told the Jews to man up when they faced injustice against the Nazi regime?
Careful when cheering against acceptable targets without reflection. Some of the worst things in history occurred because someone else was an acceptable target.
Re:Meanwhile the extreme left is unscathed (Score:5, Insightful)
Except the only thing that these people are actually doing is saying shit you don't like.
You clearly want license to abuse people you don't like and are too arrogant to see this ever being used against you.
Re:Meanwhile the extreme left is unscathed (Score:5, Interesting)
Except the only thing that these people are actually doing is saying shit you don't like.
Are you sure it's the *only* thing? A gal I know got spit on by a stranger in a coffee shop in Denver today, because she was Jewish. Now maybe *that* guy isn't like these other guys with the same ideology, and as long as they're only talking about things, and it's just this guy who's working his way up through assault, there's a line there. But it's hard to believe anyone who self-identifies as a Nazi isn't hoping to have a chance to do at least that much.
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Bullshit.
I'm Jewish, living in the deep south, and nothing like what you describe has ever even come close to happening.
She's a liar, or unhinged, fabricating victimhood to support a false narrative.
And are you retarded too? Since when is Denver in the "deep south"?
Also, both of you are idiots for anecdotal stories: I once saw a white person help a black person, there are no racists!
I once saw a white person hang a black person, all whites are racists!
The fuck with all this false equivalency "I know someone who" or "my experience is". You all fucking deprived of oxygen just long enough to function as a vapid keyboard tester on the internet?
Surprise! You are not the only motherfuckers liv
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Ha!
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Except the only thing that these people are actually doing is saying shit you don't like.
And running people over with their cars. Tiny little detail you left out.
I hate those thug as much as you.... (Score:4, Informative)
What you MAY have wanted to tell is that the racist supremacist asshole did not condemn loudly enough the action of the scumbag murderer. BUT again, this is the same stupid reasonning which is used against other group so it makes me uncomfortable. Condemn people for the action they do , do not condemn whole group for the action other did. Yes even the neo nazi. But you can condemn them all of having stupid racist ideology and so forth, it is after all how they advertize themselves, but condemning the whole group for the murder of the woman is incorrect.
Chip off Washington and Jefferson from Mt Rushmore (Score:3, Insightful)
In the Netherlands police are trying (and failing) to disband Outlaw Motor Gangs based on the criminal activities of their members. Everybody knows there is a big correlation between OMG membership and crime, but the crimes are not orchestrated by the OMG. You cannot blame an entire organisation because one member committed a crime.
Volkert van der Graaf, who killed the dutch politician Pim Fortuyn 9 days before the 2002 elections, was a vegan and memeber of environmental pressure group Milieudefensie. Shoul
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Oh boy, there's a lot to unpack here. See this is the problem, you somehow think because they're bigoted assholes no one approves of somehow gives you a permit to be a bigoted asshole no one approves of. You're completely missing the point. You're just feeding the beast with all your own hatred.
You can dislike something without hating it. Hate is something we should not encourage from ANYONE. It never leads to anything good. Ever.
Like I can for example look at these groups and laugh at their idiocy th
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They should be shamed openly, laughed at and not given a moment's peace. By simply letting them be, you are complicit in the recent rise of the extreme right.
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What if the baker would sell a custom made wedding cake to a homosexual couple...for their friend's straight wedding?
But that same baker would refuse to sell a custom made wedding cake to a heterosexual couple...for their friend's gay wedding?
Refusing to bake a "White PPL Rule and Blacks Should Be Slaves" custom cake is just as reasonable as having a religious thing against homosexual marriage. That is to say, both are stupid refusals, but at a certain point, you gotta stop poking the bear.
Re: Meanwhile the extreme left is unscathed (Score:4, Insightful)
Apples and oranges.
If you're running a business of public accommodation (that is, a business open to the public), then you cannot legally refuse service to a customer solely because that customer is in a protected class.
So, Cloudflare does NOT run a business of public accommodation, then? And political speech IS a protected class - it's called the First Amendment. Or are "some animals more equal than others"?
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The Nazis perpetrated on the Russians atrocities on par with the Shoa. Nobody in the West bothers to acknowledge this.
See Mein Kampf under "Lebensraum".
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I love the smell of bullshit in the morning.
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I don't believe you either, but the thing is, while the Nazis hadn't come to power they didn't do all that much torturing people either. They merely advocated it. Even after they came to power it took them awhile to really work things up. Things don't happen instantaneously.
So. I'm troubled that this is happening, because with IP numbers so limited it's difficult to post on the new without the support of a webhost. This is a dubious method of social control, and should be resisted. But to defend the n
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Please stop using that word. I don't think you know what it means.
I was tortured in Auschwitz by real Nazis - ie. German SS soldiers. Nazis aren't 18 year old white males on your college campus you disagree with. Sorry, but that's true.
And if these 18 year old white males had you in a prison camp again, they would, again. Do you really need any more evidence of what they are other than their intentions?
Re:Nazi (Score:5, Interesting)
So those college kids proudly waving around the flag of the people who tortured you, chanting the slogans of the people who tortured you, and espousing the ideology of the people who tortured you, doesn't bother you? They're not "real Nazis" despite adopting all the symbols of the real Nazis and standing for what real Nazis stood for? Why, because this generation of them haven't tortured you yet?
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as odious as stormfront is, this AC supports their right to publish.
As do I. I also support the right of people to choose not to associate with them, which is what's happening here.
They can still publish, by the way. The only thing that will silence them is if they decide to be silent.
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What changed is that they claimed Cloudflare "supports them", you illiterate fuck. Usual suspects acting all outraged? Pot, meet kettle.
I thought that the adjective used was hilarious.
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"The people fighting saying it's not censorship, it is, it is censorship with the justification of money and profit. 'If we host this we may lose other income'."
One type of example I can think of is athletes. They've been losing endorsement deals since I don't know how long because they did something "bad". OJ comes to mind.