Tech Companies To Lobby For Immigrant 'Dreamers' To Remain In US (reuters.com) 296
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: Nearly two dozen major companies in technology and other industries are planning to launch a coalition to demand legislation that would allow young, illegal immigrants a path to permanent residency, according to documents seen by Reuters. The Coalition for the American Dream intends to ask Congress to pass bipartisan legislation this year that would allow these immigrants, often referred to as "Dreamers," to continue working in the United States, the documents said. Alphabet Inc's Google, Microsoft Corp, Amazon.com Inc, Facebook Inc, Intel Corp, Uber Technologies Inc, IBM Corp, Marriott International Inc and other top U.S. companies are listed as members, one of the documents shows. The push for this legislation comes after President Donald Trump's September decision to allow the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program to expire in March. That program, established by former President Barack Obama in 2012, allows approximately 900,000 illegal immigrants to obtain work permits. Some 800 companies signed a letter to Congressional leaders after Trump's decision, calling for legislation protecting Dreamers. That effort was spearheaded by a pro-immigration reform group Facebook Chief Executive Mark Zuckerberg co-founded in 2013 called FWD.us.
Newspeak (Score:2, Insightful)
Illegals are illegal (Score:3, Insightful)
Illegal aliens are illegals, because they have broken the laws
Those who have broken the laws are criminals
We should not allow a group of criminals off the hook, just because they belong to a certain ethnicity
Because if we do that, it would be unfair to people of other ethnicities
Yes they are. (Score:4, Insightful)
That's where I get into arguments with my Berkeley, CA family members.
To work in companies, the illegals use other people's Social Security numbers, they will then files taxes to get their refunds, Child Tax credit, Earned Income Credit, Additional Child Tax Credit, and education credits, and what have you.
The poor bastard whose Social Security they used gets a letter stating that "they have already filed taxes" and we get that mess.
But wait! There's more!
See, since the illegal alien is running around with that person's SSN - even if they DON'T get credit - there are many other businesses that use it for background checks, governments who use it, and so forth.
So, when the American goes for a mortgage or student loan or whatever, their identity is flagged. Uh, you're here in Virginia but there's all this activity in California. This doesn't look right. DECLINED.
And it's up to the American to sort it out - including all the costs.
Solution? Immigration reform.
Re:Yes they are. (Score:5, Informative)
"To work in companies, the illegals use other people's Social Security numbers, they will then files taxes to get their refunds, Child Tax credit, Earned Income Credit, Additional Child Tax Credit, and education credits, and what have you."
Not true; Dreamers are (well, were) eligible for social security numbers.
"To work in companies, the illegals use other people's Social Security numbers, they will then files taxes to get their refunds,"
Or, they just get Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs) that let them file tax returns.
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..or they can just immigrate legally instead. What a novel concept!
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Very, very difficult in the US. The process takes years, and acceptance is unlikely even then. That's why there are illegal immigrants. Do you think they enjoy hiding from the law, trying to find a shady employer who will look the other way?
Re:Yes they are. (Score:5, Insightful)
Very, very difficult in the US. The process takes years, and acceptance is unlikely even then. That's why there are illegal immigrants.
I don't think that is relevant or should be brought in this discussion. It just confuses the issue.
If the law doesn't allow something, or makes it difficult, it's because that's how the people of the land have decided things should be. Of course, some laws may be unreasonable or should be changed (and, FWIW, I do believe immigration law is really in need of an overhaul), but that's another discussion - there are mechanisms in place to change laws people don't like. They may be slow, but that's also intentional - and a good thing, IMO.
In the meantime, the law is what it is, and whether it's inconvenient, or whether somebody really really doesn't want/doesn't feel like following the law doesn't make breaking the law acceptable. Yes, illegal immigrants really really want to stay in the USA. Yes, getting a visa legally is difficult, and probably many of them wouldn't qualify anyway. Neither of those things should matter; and I think somebody who has already demonstrated disregard for American law shouldn't get an easy path to citizenship.
Many people advocate breaking laws, with the best of intentions. For example, all the cities declaring themselves sanctuaries; that's driven by an admirable sentiment, but is in my opinion deeply flawed. Even though we all have seen exceptions, and complain about this daily, respect of laws in America is still much more prevalent than in places like Mexico. People who just go and break laws they consider unacceptable, or obsolete, or even unjust, instead of working to change those laws via existing constitutional mechanisms undermine this respect; that, I believe, creates a very dangerous precedent.
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Not our problem that no predominately non-white nation outside of Japan is considered a first world industrial nation.
You forgot South Korea, and probably China too. There's a lot more industry in China now that probably any other country in the world. Your smartphone was most likely made there, and there's pretty much no technology more cutting-edge than that.
Compare the age of these white established nations to the ages of those in Africa or Asia or the Middle East. It wasn't privilege that advanced the
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So you were brought here as a baby or toddler, possibly by your illegally immigrating parents who have since died or directly by your adoptive parents. You graduate high school, get into college, and why you apply for student aid you find out you're not really a citizen because when you were adopted the state fucked up the paperwork despite claiming you citizenship was taken care of.
Please describe the process to renormalize you immigration status. Remember: a) since you're now 18 or older and you know you
This deal is the same as all the other deals (Score:2)
Each person who crossed the border or overstayed a visa or was below the age of majority and whose parents did the same on their behalf has their unique personal story and life circumstances. Each one of them has a personal need to remain in the U.S. (and I take it they are all fluent in English and are not speaking a language of their birth country?) To issue a blanket dismissal of such concerns and not look to the needs to persons among us is indeed not who we are as a country.
Well good. Especially
Open Borders with Mexico, only (Score:2)
How about this arrangement. People come here legally and not legally from Mexico and many other countries, so what is so special about Mexico? For starters, Mexico is our next-door neighbor, so there is a basis for making an exception.
As president of Mexico, Vincente Fox expressed a vision that Canada-U.S.-Mexico through NAFTA could be a North American version of the EU, not only free trade but also free migration of people. He expressed the hope that through NAFTA and future agreements that the econo
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"To work in companies, the illegals use other people's Social Security numbers, they will then files taxes to get their refunds, Child Tax credit, Earned Income Credit, Additional Child Tax Credit, and education credits, and what have you."
Not true; Dreamers are (well, were) eligible for social security numbers.
"To work in companies, the illegals use other people's Social Security numbers, they will then files taxes to get their refunds,"
Or, they just get Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs) that let them file tax returns.
You're ignoring lots of details. The "dreamers" by definition have illegal parents as well as being illegal themselves. That means that the parents are doing the SS scam the OP described or some other, and by definition illegal, means of supporting themselves. This is what the pro-immigration/anti-citizen types keep overlooking - one crime begets another and yet another.
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Oh, did it result in a court ruling that granting social security numbers was not legal? Do you have a citation?
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They sure acted like they were eligible but in the end it was confirmed that they never were.
Not exactly true. In the end, they lost a war so they weren't allowed to secede. If they had won the war, they would have been allowed. The legality was entirely decided by war, not by any judicial system.
It's not that much different from the American Revolution. Did the colonies have the right to declare independence from England? One side says yes, the other no, and a war decided the question, but differently
Re:Yes they are. (Score:4, Insightful)
Immigration reform is NOT "open borders".
That's uncontrolled immigration. And that's what's being fought right now.
People point to 100+ years ago. Forgetting that "free country" also meant you were FREE TO STARVE.
Nowadays, there's a massive, EXPENSIVE social infrastructure. And that infrastructure simply CANNOT withstand uncontrolled immigration.
The US does NOT owe the rest of the world a living, or even a better lifestyle.
If people want to immigrate here, DO IT THE RIGHT WAY OR STAY HOME!
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Good thing we already have laws again that. Illegal immigrants don't get welfare [chron.com] and
Legal permanent residents (LPRs) must pay into the Social Security and Medicare systems for approximately 10 years before they are eligible to receive benefits when they retire. In most cases, LPRs can not receive SSI, which is available only to U.S. citizens, and are not eligible for means-tested public benefits until 5 years after receiving their green cards.
You're ignoring a lot of details. The anchor babies do qualify for benefits immediately as well as the mother and they have no issue paying those benefits to illegal mothers. The US hates fathers so they are out. The anchor babies can eventually also sponsor their parents, siblings, and other family members. The majority of immigration over the past 50+ years has been family members that all start from a single anchor. The anchor babies also get free schooling and a variety of other benefits. It's rea
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Yeah, so we can become like Malmo, Sweden and adopt the crazy policies in Germany? I'll pass.
Borders and sane immigration policy help keep the peace between cultures with conflicting value systems. When there's mass immigration because one of those systems is markedly inferior, the migrating culture ends up bringing those same problems to the new host country.
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Yeah, so we can become like Malmo, Sweden
It would be a major step up for many American cities.
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Re:Illegals are illegal (Score:5, Insightful)
People who break criminal laws are criminals. Dreamers, almost by definition, have not broken any criminal laws—which is how they were allowed to become Dreamers to begin with.
Your ethnic argument is telling, but not persuasive. In the first place, these are not criminal proceedings, in the second place, it is not their ethnicity that would allow them to stay, but rather that they came here at a young age, have obeyed the criminal laws of this country, and are not high school drop outs.
These people are culturally American, and there is nothing unfair to Americans in letting them stay.
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People who break criminal laws are criminals. Dreamers, almost by definition, have not broken any criminal laws—which is how they were allowed to become Dreamers to begin with.
Your ethnic argument is telling, but not persuasive. In the first place, these are not criminal proceedings, in the second place, it is not their ethnicity that would allow them to stay, but rather that they came here at a young age, have obeyed the criminal laws of this country, and are not high school drop outs.
These people are culturally American, and there is nothing unfair to Americans in letting them stay.
It is actually unfair to the US citizens. Importing a ton more people is like letting people cut in line. You don't reward line cutters you kick them out of the park.
Besides, the real elephant in the room is that since the Dems are having trouble winning elections with the current crop of US citizens their plan is to just import tons more compliant citizens who will then owe them. Pretending like Pelosi et al give a rats ass about illegals other than the one cleaning her house is ridiculous. This is a
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The Democrat got 2.8 million more votes for President, but lost because of affirmative action for small states (aka the Electoral College).
How cute. You think this is a democracy.
This nation is INTENTIONALLY designed to keep member states mostly sovereign and to prevent mass idiocy in populous states from tanking the whole union.
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Affirmative action is, by definition, a deliberate act.
But it gave us W and it gave us Trump: so if you are worried about who will tank the country and who takes more in tax money than they produce, pick a red state and leave the Dreamers alone.
Also, you really misunderstand the Constitution if you think it was designed to keep the states "mostly sovereign." Under the Constitution, states cannot coin money, or regulate trade across their boundaries, or tax the Federal Government, or declare war, must give
We waved a lot of American flags (Score:2)
Speaking as the child of refugee immigrants, I can speak to at least one immigrant community, whose Fourth of July gathering was conducted in a language of which I understood not one word (Mom was grew up as an ethnic minority to that community in the Old Country that spoke a different language -- Dad grew up as an ethnic minority speaking the language in a different community in the Old Country).
I didn't understand anything said, but a lot of American flags were waved. I am not requiring anyone to wave
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It's not even about ethnicity. That's just the card they pull so they can scream "racist" at anyone who challenges them.
It's about labor class. These companies want cheap workers. Someone in the country illegally will try to stay under the radar. That means working for less, not reporting unsafe or unfair working conditions, and falling victim to predatory employers who will abuse them. These companies will continue to squeeze people and push hard (ie. lobby/bribe/threaten) for any arbitrage advantage they
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Dreamers are by that logic not illegals, because as children they bore no legal responsibility for their parents' actions. That's why most people choose to treat them as a separate category from their undocumented parents.
But I am interested in your logic as it applies to their parents. Does it apply only to immigrants, or is anybody who breaks the law an "illegal"? For example is a burglar or a rapist an "illegal"? Well then how about people who don't always obey the speed limit? Or fail to report income
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How specious of you. Burglars, etc, are indeed "illegal" and if caught are punished by law. It's only being asked that those breaking the immigration law be punished as well.
Bullshit.
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I explained my reasoning. You simply say "bullshit" because you've got nothing.
Agricultural robots (Score:2)
"We have an economy that cannot function without more immigrant labor than our immigration laws allow. In the agricultural sector alone, the number of undocumented workers needed to bring in harvests is over three times the legal limit for total immigration to the US. Does that make any sense? If you could wave a magic wand and deport them all, one of the first effects the average American would feel is a dramatic increase in food prices."
There are many people who would be happy to make robots to do agricul
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So a 6 month old baby is brought into the US by the illegally immigrating parents.
a) At what point has the baby taken an action that is considered a crime?
b) What kind of facility would you suggest to incarcerate a baby?
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"At what point has the baby taken an action that is considered a crime?"
6 months after they turn 18, at which point they personally become guilty of failure to report. Prior to that, it was their parents obligation to present to the government, like any other immigrant.
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So a 6 month old baby is brought into the US by the illegally immigrating parents.
a) At what point has the baby taken an action that is considered a crime?
b) What kind of facility would you suggest to incarcerate a baby?
A) Entering the country without valid citizenship, visa, invitation, etc.
B) The child's native country.
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The baby could not have entered.The baby was taken across the border..
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He's saying that people from south of the US border, which tend to be a specific ethnicity, get to play by a completely different set of rules than immigrants who come from the eastern, northern, and western borders.
The way the US handles illegal immigration today is very racist because it benefits Latinos while ignoring others, but most don't seem to complain when other leading countries (Germany, France, Japan, Belgium, Spain, Canada, etc..) follow their immigration & deportation laws.
If you call Trum
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How does anyone benefit from this? We are talking about people who morally have done nothing wrong, have been participating in the economy as much as any other American , and are generally a positive to the economy. When you deport them, you remove mouths to feed from the economy, productive parts of the workforce, potentially tear families apart, and spend tens of th
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We stole this country from the people that lived here.
"Native Americans" were not the original population of americas and they genocided the previous occupants.
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Who the fuck are you talking about? Humans left Africa and eventually migrated across the Bering Strait and then south over thousands of years to settle North and South America.
Who the hell was here before that?
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Re:Newspeak (Score:5, Informative)
This is fascinating, however, there is no mention of 'genocide' anywhere.
The Clovis people were defined by culture. People did come across the Bering Strait into the Americas, they just weren't Clovis (yet) when they did. The Clovis culture developed after people had already settled and then spread. That's what the headline means by "Clovis People Not First Americans".
The people who settled the Americas still all have a common genetic heritage and came in a single migration. Here is an excerpt from the Center for the Study of the First Americans [tamu.edu] at Texas A&M, who published the study referenced in that article:
Current data from molecular genetics do not support this model of Native American replacement of Paleoamericans. All major Native American mtDNA and Y-chromosome haplogroups emerged in the same region of central Asia, and all share similar coalescent dates, indicating that a single ancient gene pool is ancestral to all Native American populations. Similarly, all sampled native New World populations (from Alaska to Brazil) share a unique allele at a specific microsatellite locus that is not found in any Old World populations (except Koryak and Chukchi of western Beringia), which implies that all modern Native Americans descended from a single founding population that was the result of a single migration. This is further supported by ancient DNA studies showing that Paleoamericans carried the same haplogroups (and even sub-haplogroups) as modern Native groups. Thus, although the Paleoamerican sample is still small, the craniometric differences between the early and late populations are likely the result of genetic drift and natural selection, not separate migrations from different sources in Asia.
I'd like to add that when they say "different sources", they clarify elsewhere on the page that sources can be separated spatially or temporally. Meaning that the last sentence also precludes 2 separate migrations that came from the same geographic source.
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No, he's not. See my other comment [slashdot.org].
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Also, the difference is between 15,000 years ago and 13,000 years ago. So I'm not sure what "shorter time gap" you're talking about.
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Using that logic, shouldn't almost every American get his sorry ass out of the country? We are all illegal. We stole this country from the people that lived here.
You logic is faulty. Yes, we stole this country and put its previous owners into reservations to waste away. It is ours now until somebody else manage to steal it from us again. Why in the bloody hell would you want to help them?
When it comes to Trump and a great many of his voters, well, they are just happy they finally found who to blame, since it could never in any small part be themselves. I grow to hate every one of them and their weaselly excuses on why Trump was a good idea. I just talked with one yesterday. He was an intelligent guy, and he told me, as if it was obvious, that all politicians lie, as if the way Trump acts is in no way exceptionally bad and far above all others in the scope of lying, as if the fact that many politicians told some lies justifies Trump telling exponentially more. It doesn't.
In the end it is all the same. Obama made it. Trump broke it. Trump blamed it someone else, then told people to fix it. Even now they are about to give the really rich a massive boost in income, the rest of us a tiny bit, and toss us massively more into debt.
Seriously, just months ago they were blaming Obama for inflating the deficit, when much of that was originated in the bush tax cuts that Obama didn't manage to get rid of, and now we are going to double down because why again?
I just can't see why any rational person would believe in this bullshit, nor why we have to hate on kids.
Trump, blah, Trump, blah blah, some more Trump.
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In many cases, European settlers bought land from the natives. In my hometown of Stamford, Connecticut, the land was purchased three times from the Shippan Indians -- the 2nd and 3rd times, the natives conveniently "forgot" they had already sold it.
Consider Manhattan Island, a case of Indian duplicity. The Indians who sold the island weren't the actual residents/owners, that was another tribe.
Many Indian tribes were nomadic. How can you steal the land of someone with "no fixed abode?" By the way, one reason
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I think the difference between dreamers and most americans is that dreamers were born outside of the country and brought illegally into the country as children. Most americans on the other hand, which includes most immigrant kids, both those of legal and illegal parents, were born in the U.S so they've been legal since birth thanks to everyone born in the U.S being granted citizenship upon birth. This is actually somet
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Letting it expire is not "killing" it.
What W wanted (Score:2)
You are forgetting that W advanced a Comprehensive Immigration Reform -- I remember his Oval Office speech advancing his case to the American people as if it were yesterday. It lit up the telephone switchboards of the rightwing nuthouse (U.S. House of Representatives) of which you speak.
You are forgetting that on News for Nerds that a whole lot of nerds here are under the impression that their careers got sidetracked and that they are working as Wal-Mart greeters on account of H1B, outsourcing, etc. fro
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"We are all illegal. We stole this country from the people that lived here."
My family immigrated, legally, from conquerors, but that's neither here nor there. The native american population is a cautionary tale on what happens if you don't control immigration.
You get displaced.
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Conservatives constantly demonize their opponents even more.
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And yet most scientists are Democrats.
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If true, not really relevant. The post I was responding to alleged, falsely, that "liberals look at all human accomplishments with disdain and disgust." It's a stupid lie. Scientists are overwhelmingly democratic and majority liberal, which conflicts with that idiotic thesis. I never made a similar allegation regarding conservatives.
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And yet most scientists are Democrats.
Most engineers are Republicans.
I can summarize, scientists who live in ivory tower situations can be highly liberal but those of us in the real world less so. That sounds about right.
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'Liberals look at all human accomplishments with disdain and disgust'?
What the fuck are you smoking? How can you claim to have any grasp on reality and make claims like that? Must be smoking the good stuff, man.
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Democracy will not work with open borders, people will stream in faster than the economy can adapt, vote themselves entitlement because they feel no allegiance to the working population whatsoever ... and then either fascism (lefty or righty, small difference) or civil war.
Democracy is a fragile institution which relies on a commonality and community which multiculturalism can't produce.
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I should add this is only true for full suffrage, open borders could work in a democratic apartheid regime. Doesn't need to be heritage based either, could be something like need X m2 of land owned to vote for instance.
So pick your poison.
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Sure (Score:2, Insightful)
Just endorse and enact an effective solution to prevent others following them here illegally and then Dreamers can stay.
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Humor me: name a country that I, as an American citizen, would be allowed to remain in if my parents had dragged me there illegally as a child?
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Germany.
Throw away your passport. Don't tell them where you're from. Apply for asylum. Worst case you get denied but you still get free housing, healthcare, food and other basic necessities. If you refuse to leave long enough you get a permant residence permit.
How's that working out for Germany? I hear that rapes are up by double digit percentages and social friction it as 50 year highs.
citations
https://www.gatestoneinstitute... [gatestoneinstitute.org] https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/... [spectator.co.uk]
We want your dreams to come true... (Score:4, Insightful)
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If the illegals just get deported, then the tech industry will be no better or worse off, but the workers in the US will be better off.
The fact that your parents rob a bank doesn't mean you get to keep the gains from it, even if they bought the car they gave you.
Stop collecting information on us (Score:2)
A Distraction from H1-B (Score:5, Insightful)
My cynicism meter went to 11 when I saw a headline about large tech companies banding together ostensibly for the benefit of illeg... errr, "Dreamers".
My first reaction was, "How do they benefit financially with the status quo?" But then I realized this question is of secondary significance. The primary question is, "How does this help distract from the importing of illegal labor via H1-B's?" And then pieces fell into place.
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Supply and demand (Score:5, Insightful)
Off the top of my head tech companies have supported H1B's, illegal immigrants, mass migration, code camps, public education training and significant efforts to inspire girls to become women who code for decades.
These efforts have nothing to do with altruism, in fact they are driven entirely by self centered greed. The more they can increase the labor supply the lower the cost for their primary expense - labor. These companies should start being called out for their charades and their greedy ways exposed for what they are.
Wages in tech have been stagnant or declining for many years due to these efforts. It's time to tie H1B visas to sustained wage increases. If there truly is a shortage of workers than wages will rise accordingly. Keep it simple, in order for an H1B visa to be issued for a job in a region, that region must show an increase in wages of at least 10% over the course of a year.
Posted anonymously so I don't get blacklisted in the industry
They should push for immigration⦠(Score:2)
Amnesty? What about people in the pipeline now? (Score:3)
As a note, why should these people hop in front of all the other people that are legally trying to get into the US? Are we going to penalize those who followed the laws?
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There isn't really a "pipeline" now. Most would-be immigrants flat out don't qualify to legally immigrate. They don't illegally immigrate to skip the line, they illegally immigrate because there is no line for them to get into. If you create more legal ways to enter the US, then these potential immigrants would be paying the processing fees (same as legally-applying immigrants today) so the government could hire more employees to process the increased workload, so the "line" should stay about the same leng
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
USA has an employer problem not immigration (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:USA has an employer problem not immigration (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is the government requires some sort of government ID [uscis.gov] and a social security number before you can hire someone. But it doesn't give employers any way to authenticate that the documents they receive are legit. I spoke to multiple employment attorneys about this, and the best you can do is make copies of the ID presented to you and keep them on file. This is your due diligence - proof that you attempted to comply with the law to the best of your ability should the employee's legal status come into question.
In other words, the government doesn't make any effort to block illegal immigrants from working. If it wanted to, it's be trivial to implement an electronic system which could verify an applicant's ID as legit. Social security cards are trivial to fake, and they don't even need a real SSN if they don't plan to work past the end of the year (at year's end, employment taxes are submitted and SSNs which don't match the person's name and address on file get flagged by the IRS). Just a simple system which allows you to submit a name and SSN, and it spits back valid/invalid would block about 75% of the illegal applicants we got (based on flagging by the IRS). Likewise, government ID could be confirmed the same way, possibly adding a unique code onto each ID to make forging impossible without access to the original source documents.
But the government doesn't do it. They're not serious about stopping illegal immigrants from working. My hunch is conservative politicians want to keep cheap illegal labor readily available. And liberal politicians want to encourage people to enter the country illegally to skew Congressional reapportionment (House representatives are allocated based on total population - legal and illegal - so every 743,000 illegal immigrants is approximately an extra House seat), and on the outside chance they'll be legalized and become voters (they're disproportionately low income with liberal politics).
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"But it doesn't give employers any way to authenticate that the documents they receive are legit. I spoke to multiple employment attorneys about this, and the best you can do is make copies of the ID presented to you and keep them on file. This is your due diligence - proof that you attempted to comply with the law to the best of your ability should the employee's legal status come into question. "
The system is in place to fix this. REAL ID isn't about spying on citizens - it's about stopping document frau
How all this could have been prevented (Score:2)
Show your full US photo ID. Prove citizenship before all the "free" tax payer funded city, sate and federal services and support is given.
That simple step would have made interacting with every part of the US gov at a city, state and federal level much more difficult for illegal migrants.
An illegal migrant would have had for buy, share, create fake more documents that should have been detected over decades. Finding such documents in use would have been easy with interconnected cit
never met an immigrant they don't like (Score:2)
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But you haven't earned it. Get the fuck out!
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Illegal immigrants were and still are having anchor babies just as a tactical strategy. There needs to be a clear deterrent to that.
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You're right, that the kids are victims, but of their parents choices, not the state. The state enforcing the law and deporting them is just an ultimately inevitable outcome of their illegal status, or should be at least. Don't like it? then don't be in the US illegally. Simple.
The moment the state stops enforcing the law, especially selectively just for one group, then that's the moment that the country as a whole goes to hell.
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>> Consider how it works in a more civilised country, like the UK
Yes let's, since I am actually English but a LEGAL immigrant to the US. Secondly after seeing both, I would no way agree that the UK is any more civilised than the US. In fact in the last say 20 years especially I would say its become very noticeably significantly less.
>> After staying long enough in the UK, you receive "permanent residence status", which means you have the right to live and work in the UK,
NOT even close. You absol
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>> that's a different issue.
Not really. One turns into the other.
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Totally agree. Illegals of any origin/wealth are still illegals.
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>> probably get just as many flowing across the US-Canadian border since it is far less protected.
I remember reading a while back that the Canadian rather than the Mexican border was also what IS was instructing their trained terrorists to use.
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Intent is an important part of criminal law. As children, they may not have understood the issues surrounding immigration. Or they were not capable of doing anything other than follow their parents. So deportation as a punishment (or any punishment) may not be applicable. They committed no crime in the eyes of the law.
As far as using deportation as a purely administrative remedy for a past error, these people may be able to claim the right of residence here through adverse possession. In much the same way
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"They committed no crime in the eyes of the law."
Until they turn 18, at which point they have failed to report, and are personally responsible for breaking the law.
"these people may be able to claim the right of residence here through adverse possession"
Residence isn't conveyed through adverse possession. If their possession is adverse, then they are themselves committing the harmful act, providing the mens rea.
Hate has no home here (Score:2)
I see that yard sign in the host community of a major public university.
I take it you do not share this sentiment?
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You call people scum just because they want to uphold the law?
>> some day, good, decent, caring human beings will have had enough of you...where cockroaches like you belong
Newsflash: Good, decent caring human beings neither condone breaking the law or personally insult others just for their opinions.
Your attitude of encouraging people to become illegals, to repeatedly and systematically break the law as a lifestyle, then expect to be rewarded for it is wrong and bad for society on multiple levels, as
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No, you dumb fuck. Good, decent people know the law has nothing to do with whether an act is moral, good, or decent. Appealing to the law as the ultimate arbiter if moral good is something only shitty assholes do. Like you.
If only we could appoint you supreme ruler of the US and you could personally decide what is right or wrong. You're as silly as the Antifa crowd beating people in the name of suppressing their own type of behavior.
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All of my great-grandparents entered the US legally too. The immigration rules at the time were:
1) Show up at the US border
2) You're white? Welcome to America.
The rules for a Mexican today?
Go the the US embassy with a lawyer and prove you fall into one of these categories:
1) You have a couple million dollars to invest in the US (buying yourself a mansion counts as "investing in real estate")
2) You are a model/actor/singer/pro-athlete/celebrity of some sort.
3) You have at least a bachelor's degree in technol
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" but they are pretty unlikely for your average Jose from Mexico."
That's the point.
Immigration is supposed to be beneficial for the country - it's not their job to be beneficial for you.
I'm a Mexican. I'm an immigrant. A legal immigrant. It took me about 10 years to qualify to immigrate to Canada, and I had to get a lot of things in order. There are only so many slots to immigrate, and it fell to me to figure out how to qualify. My family did, and here we are.
It's a good thing that Canada tried to pick
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My great grandfather came to this country from Canada via Germany LEGALLY!
My great grandfather bought Heroin from the corner drug store to help treat his grandma's headache LEGALLY! It's amazing how the laws have changed over the years, especially immigration law which at the time of your grandfather would have required ... errr.... just coming in. Referencing the past as some comparison to the present only serves to show how little you understand of the world.
Re:Jail for you in Mexico (Score:5, Informative)
"It's a CRIME!"
a) It's a civil offense.
b) Those that receive DACA deferrals were minors when brought to the United States.
c) Those that receive DACA deferrals are not given normalized immigration status. They are given low priority for deportation as long as they can prove that they are not committing any crimes, etc.. In exchange they have provided the Federal government with their whereabouts so that if they become reprioritized they can be quickly rounded up.
d) Those receiving DACA deferrals cannot naturalize. They have to leave the US and reenter to provide a clean immigration record, and since they were knowingly in the US out of status there is an automatic 10 year exclusion.
e) Those that receive DACA deferrals are ineligible for any federal benefits.
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" It's a civil offense."
Up until they commit the myriad of other offences, such as driving unlicensed, identity theft (often a felony), uttering false documents (often a felony), impersonating a US Citizen (a crime), failure to file taxes (also a crime), etc.
"Those receiving DACA deferrals cannot naturalize. "
That's what the companies are trying to change, and their children are Citizens due to a bad interpretation of the constitution. Get them out - your parents breaking the law doesn't entitle you to the