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Tech Companies To Lobby For Immigrant 'Dreamers' To Remain In US (reuters.com) 296

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: Nearly two dozen major companies in technology and other industries are planning to launch a coalition to demand legislation that would allow young, illegal immigrants a path to permanent residency, according to documents seen by Reuters. The Coalition for the American Dream intends to ask Congress to pass bipartisan legislation this year that would allow these immigrants, often referred to as "Dreamers," to continue working in the United States, the documents said. Alphabet Inc's Google, Microsoft Corp, Amazon.com Inc, Facebook Inc, Intel Corp, Uber Technologies Inc, IBM Corp, Marriott International Inc and other top U.S. companies are listed as members, one of the documents shows. The push for this legislation comes after President Donald Trump's September decision to allow the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program to expire in March. That program, established by former President Barack Obama in 2012, allows approximately 900,000 illegal immigrants to obtain work permits. Some 800 companies signed a letter to Congressional leaders after Trump's decision, calling for legislation protecting Dreamers. That effort was spearheaded by a pro-immigration reform group Facebook Chief Executive Mark Zuckerberg co-founded in 2013 called FWD.us.
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Tech Companies To Lobby For Immigrant 'Dreamers' To Remain In US

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  • Newspeak (Score:2, Insightful)

    by qbast ( 1265706 )
    âoeDreamersâ , what a stupid name. Deport their sorry asses and let them complain to their criminal parents for dragging them to US.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      Illegal aliens are illegals, because they have broken the laws

      Those who have broken the laws are criminals

      We should not allow a group of criminals off the hook, just because they belong to a certain ethnicity

      Because if we do that, it would be unfair to people of other ethnicities

      • Yes they are. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21, 2017 @08:24AM (#55409003)

        That's where I get into arguments with my Berkeley, CA family members.

        To work in companies, the illegals use other people's Social Security numbers, they will then files taxes to get their refunds, Child Tax credit, Earned Income Credit, Additional Child Tax Credit, and education credits, and what have you.

        The poor bastard whose Social Security they used gets a letter stating that "they have already filed taxes" and we get that mess.

        But wait! There's more!

        See, since the illegal alien is running around with that person's SSN - even if they DON'T get credit - there are many other businesses that use it for background checks, governments who use it, and so forth.

        So, when the American goes for a mortgage or student loan or whatever, their identity is flagged. Uh, you're here in Virginia but there's all this activity in California. This doesn't look right. DECLINED.

        And it's up to the American to sort it out - including all the costs.

        Solution? Immigration reform.

        • Re:Yes they are. (Score:5, Informative)

          by nomadic ( 141991 ) <nomadicworld@gm a i l . c om> on Saturday October 21, 2017 @09:50AM (#55409325) Homepage

          "To work in companies, the illegals use other people's Social Security numbers, they will then files taxes to get their refunds, Child Tax credit, Earned Income Credit, Additional Child Tax Credit, and education credits, and what have you."

          Not true; Dreamers are (well, were) eligible for social security numbers.

          "To work in companies, the illegals use other people's Social Security numbers, they will then files taxes to get their refunds,"

          Or, they just get Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs) that let them file tax returns.

          • by epyT-R ( 613989 )

            ..or they can just immigrate legally instead. What a novel concept!

            • Very, very difficult in the US. The process takes years, and acceptance is unlikely even then. That's why there are illegal immigrants. Do you think they enjoy hiding from the law, trying to find a shady employer who will look the other way?

              • Re:Yes they are. (Score:5, Insightful)

                by ChatHuant ( 801522 ) on Saturday October 21, 2017 @03:13PM (#55410539)

                Very, very difficult in the US. The process takes years, and acceptance is unlikely even then. That's why there are illegal immigrants.

                I don't think that is relevant or should be brought in this discussion. It just confuses the issue.

                If the law doesn't allow something, or makes it difficult, it's because that's how the people of the land have decided things should be. Of course, some laws may be unreasonable or should be changed (and, FWIW, I do believe immigration law is really in need of an overhaul), but that's another discussion - there are mechanisms in place to change laws people don't like. They may be slow, but that's also intentional - and a good thing, IMO.
                 
                In the meantime, the law is what it is, and whether it's inconvenient, or whether somebody really really doesn't want/doesn't feel like following the law doesn't make breaking the law acceptable. Yes, illegal immigrants really really want to stay in the USA. Yes, getting a visa legally is difficult, and probably many of them wouldn't qualify anyway. Neither of those things should matter; and I think somebody who has already demonstrated disregard for American law shouldn't get an easy path to citizenship.

                Many people advocate breaking laws, with the best of intentions. For example, all the cities declaring themselves sanctuaries; that's driven by an admirable sentiment, but is in my opinion deeply flawed. Even though we all have seen exceptions, and complain about this daily, respect of laws in America is still much more prevalent than in places like Mexico. People who just go and break laws they consider unacceptable, or obsolete, or even unjust, instead of working to change those laws via existing constitutional mechanisms undermine this respect; that, I believe, creates a very dangerous precedent.

            • Most "dreamers" wouldn't qualify to immigrate. I guess they could apply for an educational visa, get BS degree in tech, then apply for a job at a tech company willing to sponsor them as H1b. That's the easiest route to legal immigration that I can see.
            • So you were brought here as a baby or toddler, possibly by your illegally immigrating parents who have since died or directly by your adoptive parents. You graduate high school, get into college, and why you apply for student aid you find out you're not really a citizen because when you were adopted the state fucked up the paperwork despite claiming you citizenship was taken care of.

              Please describe the process to renormalize you immigration status. Remember: a) since you're now 18 or older and you know you

              • Each person who crossed the border or overstayed a visa or was below the age of majority and whose parents did the same on their behalf has their unique personal story and life circumstances. Each one of them has a personal need to remain in the U.S. (and I take it they are all fluent in English and are not speaking a language of their birth country?) To issue a blanket dismissal of such concerns and not look to the needs to persons among us is indeed not who we are as a country.

                Well good. Especially

              • How about this arrangement. People come here legally and not legally from Mexico and many other countries, so what is so special about Mexico? For starters, Mexico is our next-door neighbor, so there is a basis for making an exception.

                As president of Mexico, Vincente Fox expressed a vision that Canada-U.S.-Mexico through NAFTA could be a North American version of the EU, not only free trade but also free migration of people. He expressed the hope that through NAFTA and future agreements that the econo

          • "To work in companies, the illegals use other people's Social Security numbers, they will then files taxes to get their refunds, Child Tax credit, Earned Income Credit, Additional Child Tax Credit, and education credits, and what have you."

            Not true; Dreamers are (well, were) eligible for social security numbers.

            "To work in companies, the illegals use other people's Social Security numbers, they will then files taxes to get their refunds,"

            Or, they just get Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs) that let them file tax returns.

            You're ignoring lots of details. The "dreamers" by definition have illegal parents as well as being illegal themselves. That means that the parents are doing the SS scam the OP described or some other, and by definition illegal, means of supporting themselves. This is what the pro-immigration/anti-citizen types keep overlooking - one crime begets another and yet another.

      • So you haven't broken any laws? Ever?
      • by Frank Burly ( 4247955 ) on Saturday October 21, 2017 @10:33AM (#55409487)

        People who break criminal laws are criminals. Dreamers, almost by definition, have not broken any criminal laws—which is how they were allowed to become Dreamers to begin with.

        Your ethnic argument is telling, but not persuasive. In the first place, these are not criminal proceedings, in the second place, it is not their ethnicity that would allow them to stay, but rather that they came here at a young age, have obeyed the criminal laws of this country, and are not high school drop outs.

        These people are culturally American, and there is nothing unfair to Americans in letting them stay.

        • People who break criminal laws are criminals. Dreamers, almost by definition, have not broken any criminal laws—which is how they were allowed to become Dreamers to begin with.

          Your ethnic argument is telling, but not persuasive. In the first place, these are not criminal proceedings, in the second place, it is not their ethnicity that would allow them to stay, but rather that they came here at a young age, have obeyed the criminal laws of this country, and are not high school drop outs.

          These people are culturally American, and there is nothing unfair to Americans in letting them stay.

          It is actually unfair to the US citizens. Importing a ton more people is like letting people cut in line. You don't reward line cutters you kick them out of the park.

          Besides, the real elephant in the room is that since the Dems are having trouble winning elections with the current crop of US citizens their plan is to just import tons more compliant citizens who will then owe them. Pretending like Pelosi et al give a rats ass about illegals other than the one cleaning her house is ridiculous. This is a

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        It's not even about ethnicity. That's just the card they pull so they can scream "racist" at anyone who challenges them.

        It's about labor class. These companies want cheap workers. Someone in the country illegally will try to stay under the radar. That means working for less, not reporting unsafe or unfair working conditions, and falling victim to predatory employers who will abuse them. These companies will continue to squeeze people and push hard (ie. lobby/bribe/threaten) for any arbitrage advantage they

      • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

        by hey! ( 33014 )

        Dreamers are by that logic not illegals, because as children they bore no legal responsibility for their parents' actions. That's why most people choose to treat them as a separate category from their undocumented parents.

        But I am interested in your logic as it applies to their parents. Does it apply only to immigrants, or is anybody who breaks the law an "illegal"? For example is a burglar or a rapist an "illegal"? Well then how about people who don't always obey the speed limit? Or fail to report income

        • Does it apply only to immigrants, or is anybody who breaks the law an "illegal"?

          How specious of you. Burglars, etc, are indeed "illegal" and if caught are punished by law. It's only being asked that those breaking the immigration law be punished as well.

          We have an economy that cannot function without more immigrant labor than our immigration laws allow.

          Bullshit.

          • by hey! ( 33014 )

            I explained my reasoning. You simply say "bullshit" because you've got nothing.

        • "We have an economy that cannot function without more immigrant labor than our immigration laws allow. In the agricultural sector alone, the number of undocumented workers needed to bring in harvests is over three times the legal limit for total immigration to the US. Does that make any sense? If you could wave a magic wand and deport them all, one of the first effects the average American would feel is a dramatic increase in food prices."

          There are many people who would be happy to make robots to do agricul

      • I'm a dreamer. I dream of an America that cares about Americans
      • So a 6 month old baby is brought into the US by the illegally immigrating parents.

        a) At what point has the baby taken an action that is considered a crime?
        b) What kind of facility would you suggest to incarcerate a baby?

        • "At what point has the baby taken an action that is considered a crime?"

          6 months after they turn 18, at which point they personally become guilty of failure to report. Prior to that, it was their parents obligation to present to the government, like any other immigrant.

        • So a 6 month old baby is brought into the US by the illegally immigrating parents.

          a) At what point has the baby taken an action that is considered a crime?
          b) What kind of facility would you suggest to incarcerate a baby?

          A) Entering the country without valid citizenship, visa, invitation, etc.
          B) The child's native country.

    • Right, that makes complete sense. Let's go ruin the lives of people who are active, productive members of society who have jobs, friends and communities because their parents did something when they were little children. Because that's a policy that's both practically justifiable and reasonably compassionate.
    • ÃoeDreamersà , what a stupid name. Deport their sorry asses and let them complain to their criminal parents for dragging them to US.

      How does anyone benefit from this? We are talking about people who morally have done nothing wrong, have been participating in the economy as much as any other American , and are generally a positive to the economy. When you deport them, you remove mouths to feed from the economy, productive parts of the workforce, potentially tear families apart, and spend tens of th

  • Sure (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Kohath ( 38547 )

    Just endorse and enact an effective solution to prevent others following them here illegally and then Dreamers can stay.

    • Humor me: name a country that I, as an American citizen, would be allowed to remain in if my parents had dragged me there illegally as a child?

  • by zifn4b ( 1040588 ) on Saturday October 21, 2017 @08:36AM (#55409047)
    Translation: We want labor savings and couldn't care less about your dreams
    • If the Dreamers just get the same rights as citizens, then the tech industry will be no better or worse off than anyone else. This isn't like H1-Bs.

      • If the illegals just get deported, then the tech industry will be no better or worse off, but the workers in the US will be better off.

        The fact that your parents rob a bank doesn't mean you get to keep the gains from it, even if they bought the car they gave you.

  • Add to the bill a requirement that tech companies stop collecting all sorts of personal information on us and prevent them from selling it to third parties. Let's clean up the entire problem.
  • by PeteJanda ( 1481299 ) on Saturday October 21, 2017 @09:14AM (#55409193)

    My cynicism meter went to 11 when I saw a headline about large tech companies banding together ostensibly for the benefit of illeg... errr, "Dreamers".

    My first reaction was, "How do they benefit financially with the status quo?" But then I realized this question is of secondary significance. The primary question is, "How does this help distract from the importing of illegal labor via H1-B's?" And then pieces fell into place.

    • H1B could be solved in an afternoon by auctioning off the permits instead of a lottery. Those companies that *really* wanted a particular person could bid higher get their key person while the issue of paying below market wages issue would be dealt with immediately. As a bonus it would reduce the deficit since the revenue from the program would be higher.
  • Supply and demand (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 21, 2017 @09:49AM (#55409323)

    Off the top of my head tech companies have supported H1B's, illegal immigrants, mass migration, code camps, public education training and significant efforts to inspire girls to become women who code for decades.

    These efforts have nothing to do with altruism, in fact they are driven entirely by self centered greed. The more they can increase the labor supply the lower the cost for their primary expense - labor. These companies should start being called out for their charades and their greedy ways exposed for what they are.

    Wages in tech have been stagnant or declining for many years due to these efforts. It's time to tie H1B visas to sustained wage increases. If there truly is a shortage of workers than wages will rise accordingly. Keep it simple, in order for an H1B visa to be issued for a job in a region, that region must show an increase in wages of at least 10% over the course of a year.

    Posted anonymously so I don't get blacklisted in the industry

  • To be solved. It is insane that CONgress/trump will not do their jobs.
  • by mveloso ( 325617 ) on Saturday October 21, 2017 @10:26AM (#55409443)

    As a note, why should these people hop in front of all the other people that are legally trying to get into the US? Are we going to penalize those who followed the laws?

    • There isn't really a "pipeline" now. Most would-be immigrants flat out don't qualify to legally immigrate. They don't illegally immigrate to skip the line, they illegally immigrate because there is no line for them to get into. If you create more legal ways to enter the US, then these potential immigrants would be paying the processing fees (same as legally-applying immigrants today) so the government could hire more employees to process the increased workload, so the "line" should stay about the same leng

    • by squiggleslash ( 241428 ) on Saturday October 21, 2017 @02:37PM (#55410445) Homepage Journal

      As a note, why should these people hop in front of all the other people that are legally trying to get into the US?

      Because they're here already, have already made lives for themselves, are already integrated into society, and have done nothing wrong, and because sending them back to a country they barely know if at all would be horrifically cruel.

      Also there's no line. Letting 100,000 Dreamers stay here does not prevent others from coming in or delay their entrance. Quite the reverse actually: if the authorities are tied up deporting people, they have fewer resources to manage normal immigration.

      BTW I am a legal immigrant.

  • by FeelGood314 ( 2516288 ) on Saturday October 21, 2017 @10:26AM (#55409445)
    90% of the illegals crossing into the USA are doing so because it is so easy to get a job in the USA. In the Bay area, every morning at 4am you will see school buses (likely the same ones that take your kids to school 2 hours later), busing in workers to do yard work, cleaning and other manual labor. They aren't getting paid minimum wage, they all seem to look a bit Latino and aren't speaking English. hmm. The USA's laws about illegal migrants are not about keeping them out, it is about keeping their wages down and making sure they don't use any government services. If the USA wanted to end 90% of the illegal migrants they could just grant the migrants the right to a $30/hr wage and then enforce it by going after the employers. It would solve the illegal migrant problem over night. It would be total chaos for months as businesses that relied on $2/hr wages collapsed but most of those companies are total leaches anyway (I'm talking about the high water usage farming in the California in particular).
    • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Saturday October 21, 2017 @02:09PM (#55410351)
      As an employer who tried not to hire illegal aliens, but got a lot of illegals as job applicants, it's nothing like you characterize. It is already a crime to hire an illegal alien. The penalty [legalmatch.com] ranges from a few thousand dollars for the first offense, up to tens of thousands of dollars and jail time for multiple offenses.

      The problem is the government requires some sort of government ID [uscis.gov] and a social security number before you can hire someone. But it doesn't give employers any way to authenticate that the documents they receive are legit. I spoke to multiple employment attorneys about this, and the best you can do is make copies of the ID presented to you and keep them on file. This is your due diligence - proof that you attempted to comply with the law to the best of your ability should the employee's legal status come into question.

      In other words, the government doesn't make any effort to block illegal immigrants from working. If it wanted to, it's be trivial to implement an electronic system which could verify an applicant's ID as legit. Social security cards are trivial to fake, and they don't even need a real SSN if they don't plan to work past the end of the year (at year's end, employment taxes are submitted and SSNs which don't match the person's name and address on file get flagged by the IRS). Just a simple system which allows you to submit a name and SSN, and it spits back valid/invalid would block about 75% of the illegal applicants we got (based on flagging by the IRS). Likewise, government ID could be confirmed the same way, possibly adding a unique code onto each ID to make forging impossible without access to the original source documents.

      But the government doesn't do it. They're not serious about stopping illegal immigrants from working. My hunch is conservative politicians want to keep cheap illegal labor readily available. And liberal politicians want to encourage people to enter the country illegally to skew Congressional reapportionment (House representatives are allocated based on total population - legal and illegal - so every 743,000 illegal immigrants is approximately an extra House seat), and on the outside chance they'll be legalized and become voters (they're disproportionately low income with liberal politics).
      • "But it doesn't give employers any way to authenticate that the documents they receive are legit. I spoke to multiple employment attorneys about this, and the best you can do is make copies of the ID presented to you and keep them on file. This is your due diligence - proof that you attempted to comply with the law to the best of your ability should the employee's legal status come into question. "

        The system is in place to fix this. REAL ID isn't about spying on citizens - it's about stopping document frau

  • Using a gov service?
    Show your full US photo ID. Prove citizenship before all the "free" tax payer funded city, sate and federal services and support is given.
    That simple step would have made interacting with every part of the US gov at a city, state and federal level much more difficult for illegal migrants.
    An illegal migrant would have had for buy, share, create fake more documents that should have been detected over decades. Finding such documents in use would have been easy with interconnected cit
  • Tech companies never met an immigrant they don't like because more supply of workers means you can pay them less. If there were fewer workers then you would have to pay them more. If you've already made your money you benefit from having tons of surplus labor around.

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