Facebook Exec: 'Just Not True' That We Listen To Your Phone's Mic (theoutline.com) 152
Adrianne Jeffries, writing for The Outline: Facebook executive stepped outside of official channels of communication last night by tweeting about a negative rumor that seems to keep resurfacing no matter how many times the company denies it. "I run ads product at Facebook. We don't - and have never - used your microphone for ads. Just not true," tweeted Rob Goldman, vice president of ads products at Facebook. That includes Facebook-owned Instagram, he said. Goldman was responding to a tweet from PJ Vogt, one of the co-hosts of the tech podcast Reply All, which is producing a segment about the persistent belief that Facebook spies on users through the microphone. Vogt had asked people to call in to share their stories of why they think Facebook may be using the microphone to collect information for advertisers.
What for (Score:5, Insightful)
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Maybe they're getting ready to launch the Facebook Virtual Assistant.
Exactly what I was wondering (Score:5, Insightful)
I didn't think Facebook used the microphone for anything before i read that comment - they literally created doubt where there was none!
Re:Exactly what I was wondering (Score:4, Interesting)
I didn't think Facebook used the microphone for anything before i read that...
Apparently there are FB features that allow video capture. That's why they claim they need mic access. I'm not worried about the mic - It's what they do with my location that gives me the creeps. Of course, that's easy to turn off if you're willing to give up the perks.
Re: Exactly what I was wondering (Score:1)
Open source (Score:1)
Simple solution, Facebook: open your source code and prove it.
Re: What for (Score:2)
it is in the wording.
ads are pretty much untrusted code you run in your app (hint, nobody pays you if you won't allow them to run 3rd party traffic validation coded in real time).
so FB might be honest. THEY don't use the mic. but since the app secured the permission, that 3rd party ad code might very well use the mic.
I get it. (Score:4, Funny)
Just not true.
So it is, then.
Quick question (Score:2)
Just not true.
So it is, then.
Quick question: Does Facebook make up its own ads to serve to people, or does it use an ad-delivery service where another company aggregates the ads for them?
What I'm asking is: does Facebook somehow curate the javascript and other gunk that is served as advertizing, or does the ad service, or do the advertizers themselves somehow curate those programs?
All the web sites that pop up a message saying "we notice that you are using an ad blocker - please stop" makes me mentally reply "I notice you let anyone se
Re: Quick question (Score:1)
The Facebook ad platform was pretty locked down when I used it. Facebook runs and controls the whole system, no third party ads. They do it all.
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Quick question: Does Facebook make up its own ads to serve to people, or does it use an ad-delivery service where another company aggregates the ads for them?
# Block Facebook IPv4
127.0.0.1 api.ak.facebook.com
127.0.0.1 api.connect.facebook.com
127.0.0.1 api.facebook.com
127.0.0.1 app.facebook.com
127.0.0.1 apps.facebook.com
127.0.0.1 ar-ar.facebook.com
127.0.0.1 badge.facebook.com
127.0.0.1 blog.facebook.com
127.0.0.1 connect.facebook.com
127.0.0.1 connect.facebook.net
127.0.0.1 de-de.facebook.com
127.0.0.1 developers.facebook.com
127.0.0.1 es-la.facebook.com
127.0.0.1 external.ak.fbcdn.net
127.0.0.1 facebook.com
127.0.0.1 facebook.de
127.0.0.1 facebook.fr
127.0.0.1 fb.me
127.0.0
IPV4 addresses in CIDR format (Score:2)
For use in real firewalls
31.13.24.0/21
31.13.64.0/18
66.220.144.0/20
69.63.176.0/20
69.171.224.0/19
74.119.76.0/22
103.4.96.0/22
173.252.64.0/18
204.15.20.0/22
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sudo rm /etc/passwd
That should do it....
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Kafkatrapping [wiktionary.org]
Re:I get it. (Score:4, Insightful)
If a company is innocent of an acquisition, how are they to prove this to the public?
They cannot confirm it because it is untrue, they cannot deny it, because it makes them seem like they are lying about it. If they say they will investigate it, it means they are dragging their feet. If they can find the source of the acquisition they may be able to sue them for libel, but then it is the greedy big business covering up the plight of the little guy.
In the world of lies, how do you promote the truth?
Now there are a lot of companies that will just outright lie when they are guilty too, but the bigger problem is, how can we show the truth, as the Lies get more press.
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They don't need to. It was known that ISP's themselves were doing deep packet inspection for advertising revenue purposes. There was a company in the UK called Phorm that was doing exactly this. They would sign a deal with ISP's. One of their little black boxes would be placed at the ISP's gateway to the rest of the Internet. This little black box would sift through internet traffic for keywords and other such things to present targeted advertising. They essentially looked through keywords of your Emails, w
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Re: I get it. (Score:2)
Happened to me a few times like my wife and i are done having kids. Talking with my friends about their upcoming baby and boom next thing i know im getting pampers ads and investing in my childs education ads againsl all of sudden.
I got a new phone and only use facebook via web and grant it no axs. It has not happened since
Facebook isnt lying but they dont stop others from using it
Re: I get it. (Score:3)
So you have been geographically close to someoneâ(TM)s mobile with a search history of baby related stuff, or maybe even on the same WiFi?
No microphone access needed...
Target and teen pregnancy (Score:2)
my wife and i are done having kids.
Unless both of you are way above 70 years old and you not only had a vasectomy, but even got your balls removed,
I wouldn't trust 100% this.
Talking with my friends about their upcoming baby and boom next thing i know im getting pampers ads and investing in my childs education ads againsl all of sudden.
Given precedent at Target [businessinsider.com], It would be now a good idea to make a pregnancy test.
At that this at Target is rather old story. At a time where statistics was the best you could do. Since then we've moved past machine learning and into the real or deep neural nets. You can only guess what Facebook is able to infere and deduce about you..
Worse (Orwellian) (Score:2)
Actually, the real explanation behind this anecdote might be even worse, reaching Orwellian proportions, where the government of Big Brother was even able to know the intimates dreams and nightmares of this citizens.
Constantly listening wouldn't be very efficient :
You'd need a phone that never goes into deep-sleep power saving, constantly processing sound, and probably constantly streaming the audio to the motherbase for analysis. I.e.: you'd be constantly consumer 24/7 the same level of resources as during
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He added (Score:5, Funny)
Yet (Score:1)
We don't - and have never - used your microphone for ads, YET...
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We don't - and have never - used your microphone for ads, YET...
No, sir. Not wittingly.
Scare-mongering, *sigh* (Score:4, Insightful)
Any communications app could do this because they all have permission to access the mic and the network. This is not new, and you basically have to trust whatever you install.
If people could confine themselves to crying wolf when there is evidence of a wolf, that would be great. Because we already gloss over too many real vulnerabilities and poor practices in favor of sensationalism and nonsense.
App developers need to stop the BS (Score:3, Interesting)
Most of the apps that I see on Google's store require access to everything.
Why? Why does a timer need locations access?
Or access to my contacts? Or camera?
Google's apps are the worst.
And Samsung put facebook on my J1 Ace. I can't get the fucker off. And the fucker starts itself up when I disable it. WTF?!?
So, since facebook's app acts that way, I don't believe a word that asshole says.
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And Samsung put facebook on my J1 Ace. I can't get the fucker off. And the fucker starts itself up when I disable it. WTF?!?
So, since facebook's app acts that way, I don't believe a word that asshole says.
I wouldn't know how Facebook's app acts, but the fact that you can't remove it is 100% Samsung's fault. Only the OEM can mandate a third-party app.
Don't like it? Don't buy their products.
Re:Scare-mongering, *sigh* (Score:4, Insightful)
sensationalism (in this case) gets people thinking about things like "why does this app have access to the mic?". Now that awareness is being raised, it's time to bust out the flood gates of all phone permissions and how they are abused so that real changes can be made.
You shouldn't have to trust what ever app you install. You should be able to trust your phone OS to block apps as you desire. App makers should be held accountable to detail exactly why they need permissions they ask for and a phone OS should be held accountable to let users allow/disable said permissions as they see fit. And not just in a "This app needs X permissions or it will not load". More like a "This app asks for permissions unrelated to it's operation and will be banned from the store if it refuses to work without them"
Agree. (Score:1)
The decision to keep the featurewall features out of the core OS was made in full conscious awareness of the moral inappropriateness of doing so.
It was clear to everyone attempting to make a phone OS that their OS would get squashed if it didn't prioritize app-developer desires over end-user desires. And, that is still true today, precisely because there aren't enough end-users who are serious enough about protecting their privacy to actually change the balance.
The majority of end-users just put up with it
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Users put up with it because there is no alternative OS. There are just 2 mobile OS competitors with >99% of the market. Both contenders are made by dystopian Progressive-Capitalist Silicon Valley companies with close ties to the US security services and open contempt for freedom, who consider their users a product to be sold to the highest bidders.
Were there another viable mobile OS on the market - one that did not constantly snoop on its users - I'm sure many people would rush out to buy phones runni
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Anything that can be abused cheaply, will be abused cheaply.
It would not surprise me if Facebook made a seperate 3rd party company they send all audio data to while simultaneously claiming *they* don't listen to the microphone.
Overly specific (Score:1)
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AKA "The Xbox defense"
Re:Overly specific (Score:4, Insightful)
Talking out loud about tin-foil hats now to see if I get any ads for a discount.
Find a shortwave radio and tune it into a station that is broadcasting Chinese or some other language than English. Leave your phone there for several hours then take note if any ads come up in that language.
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Did you look up their phone number. Do you have their phone number in your contacts?
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You can do quicker than that. Get a GPS spoofer app. Change your location to central Mongolia, Afghanistan, Siberia or the North/South pole. Now wait for the targeted advertising messages.
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Hi Wayne, have you considered Reynold's brand foil hat for your next show?
Snorers (Score:1)
How do they know to target me with anti-snoring advertisements?
And then ... (Score:2)
Vogt had asked people to call in to share their stories of why they think Facebook may be using the microphone to collect information for advertisers.
Which phone apps spy on you? (Score:2)
Which phone apps spy on you? All of them.
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No, they don't. You obviously need to spend a bit more time over at https://f-droid.org/ [f-droid.org].
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what face book does can never be considered spying. even if they did listen to the mic... the the meatpopsicle is the product.
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F-Droid is no guarantee anymore either, more and more apps are creeping in that are asking permissions for things that sort of app has no business needing access to.
Nothing from your microphone ... (Score:4, Funny)
" ... now your Camera ... no comment. But we do not use information from your microphone"
Very carefully worded (Score:4, Insightful)
Watch the carefully worded denial, no doubt approved by company's lawyers.
"We don't - and have never - used your microphone for ads. Just not true.". Ok, so they did not use microphone *for ads*. What did they use it for?
(Here are some ideas that are not contrary to this denial: listening in for research purposes, compiling data on behalf of a government)
There is a saying about this sort of thing. (Score:2)
I think it originated in the Soviet Union:
"Nothing is verified until it is officially denied."
So.....
Re: (Score:1)
Thank you for the clarification and the citation. The Soviet Union was the context in which I originally encountered the saying.
Wow what a problem, now only if... (Score:5, Interesting)
http://osxdaily.com/2013/11/26... [osxdaily.com]
Overly suspicious (Score:4)
Liar (Score:1, Troll)
An absolute crock of steaming piled high bullshit! I've personally had their damn apps spy on me.
Everything is a conspiracy! (Score:1)
People who give an advertising app like Facebook permission to record audio from their microphone *deserve* to be listened-in on. Services like this should only be accessed in a sandboxed, open-source web browser that gives you full control of what information they have access to.
how else would they know my back hurts? [targ ads] (Score:1)
:) I only mentioned it in gmail, in "private" facebook message to my friend, on a random site that used fb auth.. it has got to be the microphone!
Re: (Score:2)
I have literally said "my Father-in-law drives a mercedes" and then found a mercedes advert on my FB feed the next refresh. NOTHING else like you described. Turned off their app access to microphone and that crap disappeared.
Why would it be true? (Score:3)
There are so many easier and more efficient ways of stealing everyone's personal information en masse. Why would they bother resorting to surreptitiously activating your phone's microphone?
Re: (Score:2)
There's an even easier way than stealing. Just ask by giving someone a form to fill in. The information people are willing to hand over for nothing is simply incredible.
But... (Score:1)
Do you use GPS location for ads?
Do you use cell phone tower broadcast information for ads?
Do you use people's contacts
Do you base facial recognition based on photos that people on contact list posted without permissions?
Do you own Whatsapp or whatever it's called to get phone numbers from people?
Does Whatsapp get voice data from people who use the amp? Well it's not "facebook" technically
Do you do get user data based on instagram posts?
Do you work with other companies and purchase personal data based on exi
just "never have" ? (Score:2)
"Never have" is nice, but would you put it in writing that you never will?
It's not Facebook... (Score:2)
I've had their apps before. (Score:5, Informative)
If you want me to believe you DON'T listen through my Mic when just having your crap installed runs my battery down 40% faster - even when I'm not using it - you're on the wrong track.
IF you want me to believe you DON'T listen through my Mic but you just about break your neck trying to force me to install your chat app after I remove it by making it so that mobile browsers can't access chat anymore, you're on the wrong track.
IF you want me to believe you aren't spying on me in general and you feel the need to try to force me to install your normal app by making streaming video unavailable if I use a mobile browser you aren't convincing me.
I had their crap years ago. One of the first things I did after rooting my HTC One M8 was remove the crap that was put on their by HTC and/or AT&T.
Now that I have a Pixel it didn't come with a Facebook app, and I haven't installed it on this phone - ever. I do have other social network stuff installed, like Minds, Google +, and a couple of others. I'm pretty sure Google spys as bad as Facebook did, only it does that with Google + installed or not, and I'm pretty sure it has less battery impact.
I bought my wife one of those $50 Amazon tablets mostly because she wanted something like that just for Facebook and chat, the battery life was so pathetic she didn't ever start using it regularly. Now that the Facebook crap has been removed our son uses it for hours on end on road trips watching his kids shows. It's scary how long that battery lasts without Facebook software on it.
No Facebook - if you want to convince me you're not just there to spy on me you'll stop working with manufacturers to put your shitty software on phones in a manner that it can't be removed unless you're geeky enough to use the Android Developer kit and do some ROM flashing to get rid of it. I'm suspicious of ANYTHING that presents itself as mandatory. You'll also make your crap to where it doesn't run unless I start it. You literally make hardware akin to useless. I laugh at the people I see running around having to charge their phones all the time because they shit they have running on it constantly runs their batteries down. I don't carry a power bank and I laugh at people who do. Bullshit apps like Facebooks are what kills battery life, for the most part modern phones running a stable OS build without extra bullshit have incredible battery life.
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I know about that. I hate working on a phone screen enough as it is that I don't usually do that. I just hold it against Facebook and I know that anyone that can't wait until I get to a desktop to see what they sent me can contact me in about a dozen other ways.
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Rooting not just allows you to rip crap like that out, but gives you the ability to firewall, guaranteeing that if it ever came back, it wouldn't be able to phone home. I wish DonkeyGuard or xPrivacy were maintained. Those programs were top notch at not just keeping an app from getting to goodies, but giving it fake info, so it thinks it has contacts, photos, camera, mic... but in reality, it is pulling random numbers and repeatedly uploading a black screen.
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YES! Virtual bullshit inputs, I like the idea. Yeah, you're right, I would totally consider those programs for apps that ask for permissions they don't need. I keep my quantity of installed apps down due to crap like that. I quit playing Angry Birds years ago when they first started wanting access to my call log and address book.
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My buddy's got a Samsung Galaxy S7. Since he rooted it and got rid of the crapware, his battery life is vastly improved. He figures at least double, though he didn't jump through all the hoops to do a rigorous analysis.
The list of apps he disabled and/or removed was jaw-dropping. Screen after screen of them.
When the time comes for me to finally let my old (still immaculate) iPhone 4S go to its reward, I will very definitely be going down that path.
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My original Evo 4G WiMax model went from 12 hours to close to 60 of standby after rooting it and putting an alternate ROM on it. That Nascar app, college football app among others that always ran killed it.
Seems kind of weird (Score:5, Insightful)
People spew their life's intimate and sordid details onto Facebook all the time... but they get up in arms that Facebook might be using the microphone to record them?
This is almost as bizarre as those people who demand the government take away constitutional rights due of terror attacks which kill at most a few dozen people a year, yet don't bat an eye at the ~ 9,000 annually who die due to drunken driving.
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but they get up in arms that Facebook might be using the microphone to record them?
You seem not to grasp the difference between giving snd taking.
a) I give you $100. I have $100 less, you have $100 more.
b) You take away $100 from me. Same result. Except for the law suit following.
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People post what they CHOOSE to post. They don't choose to be listened to nonstop. That's a fundamental difference.
You might as well justify stealing from a generous person - "he gives money to so money other people, why would he care if a little money also goes to me?"
Fixed that for ya, Ronnie Boy... (Score:2)
"I run ads product at Facebook. We don't - and have never - used your microphone for ads. Just not true,"
Translated into English: "You think we actually have to listen in to know how often you creep your ex's page and spank the monkey?
"You make it so very easy for us to spy on you, and we already have so many ways to do so, we don't have to bother with your effing microphone. "
I TEXTED SOMEONE ABOUT MY F-150 and guess what (Score:1)
I texted a friend about my truck. Didn't even say I want a new one. I used the stock text messaging app.
And god damn it, if Facebook didn't all of a sudden start dropping Ford F-150 ads on me.
I was pretty pissed off to be frank.
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He and I are not friends on FB and I had only been in the office for less than a month.
I understand that FB can use proximity detection and all the "big data" points you made, but it is too coincidental for me. This is only one example, but there were a few of these that happened to me before I stopped using FB entire
Yes, but his later tweet: (Score:2)
I don't believe that facebook is listening takes his assertion from fact to opinion.
Subtle Irony (Score:1)
Prove it (Score:4, Interesting)
Not for ads... (Score:1)
>"We don't - and have never - used your microphone for ads"
Yeah. We just feed it into out AI (Codename "Suckernet"), which then plays out the ads to you...
Because Zuckerberg tapes over/disables his shit (Score:3)
Which means HE KNOWS his shit's being used to do that, you fucking imbecile.
The bs is so thick... (Score:1)
2-3 years ago I was having a conversation with my wife about some home upgrades over dinner, this was the very first time we spoke about it and neither one of us were doing research online before hand. That night I loaded up facebook and saw ads for home supply warehouses.
All things considered.. (Score:2)
We are talking about an app spying on you for marketing purposes because it is installed on the operating system that the biggest advertising giant on the planet developed and "gave away"?
Everything on android is harvesting data. In scary huge amounts. I imagine Apple does the same and just shares it less. It's exclusive, right?
When I'm forced to carry a smartphone, I get what apps I need from f-droid. I't may be a false sense of security, but I do prefer seeing "This app requires no special permissions" ov
It's probably just coincidence (Score:1)
Earlier today my colleague and I were talking about kung fu movies at work, just talk, no googling, and a few minutes later I got an ad for kung fu training from facebook. That is the first kung fu ad I have seen ever. After that we have been talking about buying an Audi car, and are awaiting the ads, just to be sure that they are listening in... But of course that must have been a coincidence, since I'm using Linux, and I know when the microphone on my computer is turned on. I do, however, have an Android
And we really wish ... (Score:2)
I call bullsh*t on that (Score:1)
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https://arstechnica.com/tech-p... [arstechnica.com]