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Microsoft Debuts Windows 10 on ARM; Asus and HP Unveil Laptops With 20-Hour Battery Life, Gigabit LTE (zdnet.com) 139

Mary Jo Zoley, writing for ZDNet: A year ago, Microsoft announced it was working with its PC partners to bring Windows 10 to Qualcomm's ARM processors. The resulting machines, part of the "Always Connected PC" ecosystem, would start rolling out before the end of calendar 2017, officials said. Today, December 5, Microsoft provided a progress report on Windows on ARM at Qualcomm's Snapdragon Tech Summit. Microsoft and PC makers Asus and HP showed off new PCs running Windows 10 on Snapdragon 835 at the event. Asus' NovoGo will begin shipping at least in quantities before year-end, I've heard. Models with 4 GB of RAM and 16 GB of storage will be available starting at $599, and 8GB/256 GB storage model at $799, Asus officials said today. Asus is claiming 22 hours of continuous video playback and 30 days of standby. HP's Envy x2 -- like most of the ARM-based Always Connected Windows 10 devices -- won't be available until Spring of 2018. Users can get up to 20 hours of active use and 700 hours of "Connected Modern Standby." Pricing is not yet available.

Microsoft Debuts Windows 10 on ARM; Asus and HP Unveil Laptops With 20-Hour Battery Life, Gigabit LTE

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  • Fuck Windows 10 (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @02:41PM (#55682255)

    Use Linux. No spying. No forced updates. Totally secure.

  • by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @02:45PM (#55682281)

    Is this a bad joke? This is basically an underpowered netbook, regardless of battery life.

    Also, it comes with Windows 10S, which is essentially crippled by design. Yeah, 10 Pro is free. For now.

    Also, LTE replacing private WiFi for sensitive corporate applications? In whose dreams?

    I can buy 2-3 refurb Thinkpad X-series for the same price.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      I agree these in particular don't look like useful hardware.

      If you look at a slightly bigger picture, I think running real operating systems and software on ARM hardware could end up being popular, since battery life is usually terrible on x64.

      I think most of the Slashdot crowd could appreciate the possibility of having a smartphone without carrying 1984 around in your pocket, too.

      • Battery life is ok on Intel hardware these days. The question is battery for performance. So, we're not doing much for Atom based laptops anymore. By now Intel has 20 hours nailed with that I'm almost sure.

        The question is, if I sit down and start using this machine how slow is it? I use a Surface Book each day and plan to get a Surface Book 2 next month. Yes, it's top end model. I have high expectations from a laptop. Will this laptop be so slow that a Core i3 is fast?
    • This is basically an underpowered netbook, regardless of battery life.

      The battery life is possible precisely because it is "underpowered". It's called a trade-off, and engineers have to do it all the time.

      It should handle web apps, office apps, and basic entertainment just fine, so it is not underpowered in an absolute sense.

      Also, LTE replacing private WiFi for sensitive corporate applications? In whose dreams?

      A lot of corporate laptops already have cellular internet. The US government uses them on occasion too.

      There's this thing called VPN which addresses insecure networks, and a laptop needs it anyway. No external network is safe, so VPN should be the norm ev

    • They are trying to compete with Chromebooks which has begun to totally dominate primary and secondary education. They will fail for the same reason Windows R bit the dust, it's not compatible with all the windows x86 applications and the number of windows ARM applications is non-existent.

      People would be better off with a chromebook, after all now that Chromebook's have access to the full Google Play Android applications they can install word/excel on Chromebooks and have more than they could get on these st

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        it's not compatible with all the windows x86 applications and the number of windows ARM applications is non-existent.

        Did you read the linked article at all? You must've missed the part about the WoW being extended to provide x86 emulation on ARM. Most existing Windows apps will run on it, and the emulation will be refined as they have more real-world examples of what works and what doesn't.

        • by Bert64 ( 520050 )

          A laptop that's already underpowered, being forced to do emulation? How's that going to perform, and what's going to happen to battery life when you're running apps through emulation?
          This is going to be a terrible user experience which will quickly earn a terrible reputation.

          • A laptop that's already underpowered, being forced to do emulation?

            Your phone is forced to do emulation whenever it visits a website containing JavaScript, or whenever it runs a PhoneGap app written in JavaScript, or whenever it runs an Android app written in Java.

            How's that going to perform, and what's going to happen to battery life when you're running apps through emulation?

            Probably about as well as 68000 emulation in Mac OS 7.5 and 8.x for PowerPC, or about as well as PowerPC emulation in Mac OS X 10.5 for Intel. The former was an interpretive 68LC040 emulator, and Connectix sold a replacement emulator called Speed Doubler that used dynamic recompilation. Apple eventually got its o

          • by theweatherelectric ( 2007596 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @06:27PM (#55684243)

            How's that going to perform

            It performs well [youtube.com]. The x86 compatibility layer is fast enough that x86 and ARM binaries run well together [youtube.com].

            This is going to be a terrible user experience which will quickly earn a terrible reputation.

            Doesn't seem to be. Maybe try it out first.

        • I saw the claim of emulation, color me skeptical given Microsoft's past history with emulation. I'll wait until the actual user reports that call the emulation completely unworkable and worthless before I accept Microsofts claims as they've done this before several times then abandoned the product 6 months later because it's garbage. This is windows RT all over again.

    • Also, LTE replacing private WiFi for sensitive corporate applications? In whose dreams?

      Why do you think it's replacing WiFi? The article clearly states;

      Always Connected is the branding for PCs that include built-in gigabit LTE and WiFi; long battery life (in ARM devices' case, allegedly multiple days without a recharge); run Windows 10; and be thin, light and fanless.

    • Also, LTE replacing private WiFi for sensitive corporate applications? In whose dreams?

      Wait, it has LTE but will it not have WiFi?

      I'd imagine that when both are available, WiFi is preferred over LTE.

    • I have an ASUS T-100-chi that was quite responsive running Windows 10. They only drawback was that it ran Windows 10, so I put Linux on it. It's an awesome setup for on the go frankly.
    • I select a cafe based on the taste of the coffee, not on whether the establishment has free wifi.

      (Sorry Starbucks, but your espresso is sub-par.)

    • this has been our for years its just there phone os rebranded.
    • I already VPN into the corp intranet, so WiFi or L:TE doesn't matter. And if I were doing SMB consluting I'd recommend they do the same, tunnel in and don't worry a moment about the conduit. Strongest affordable. Two-factor auth.

      The network isn't the problem. It's always the problem, so you don;t ever, ever trust it, even your fancy black WiFi in your own living room.

    • it's called a VPN. And you're refurbed Thinkpad might very well have come from my company. Companies want reliability and performance. They're pretty indifferent how they get it. Right now they get it by swapping out the laptop ever 3-4 years. Maybe changing to a CPU that doesn't run hotter than the sun and warp the mobo over time is a valid solution too. My company pays $1200 for it's laptops. $600 would be a bargain if it got us similar performance. And who knows, 4 GB might be plenty for an ARM.
    • Apples to turquoise turtlenecks?

      I think you're comparing a PC to a ... I have no idea what this is.

      Let's make a better comparison. Let's compare this to a Motorola Galaxy... at least from a hardware perspective. How does this stack up? I guess the flash is less, but otherwise is there any actually different from a Samsung telephone? They're still making that huge iPad mini sized telephone right?
    • Also, LTE replacing private WiFi for sensitive corporate applications? In whose dreams?

      Err, everyone's. That's a general industry move right now is to switch to LTE and come back into the office via VPN. Hell we did the same thing with our WiFi networks too, any connection to the WiFi was untrusted and you had to VPN into the network within the building. The move to LTE presents no worse security but has a massive improvement in mobility.

      Unless your corporate network actually is just directly connected to WiFi in which case WTF are you thinking.

    • by fubarrr ( 884157 )

      It has 52wh battery. It is ok, bur not much in comparison to XPC (60,) and latest Yogas (72 and more in 13 inch models)

    • This is the new Tandy Model 100. 20 hour battery life, limited hardware. It will be good for journalists or anyone who has a travel-heavy job and not a computing-heavy job.

  • Dead on arrival: Nobody wants this or needs this.
    • Maybe it will take off, but why make the entry-devices so cr@ppy? 4GB RAM/16 GB storage? Are they trying to ram clown storage down users' throats or are they just going for a bad user experience for entry users?

      We've been down this road with Windows 8 RT (wRetched Turd).

      • by swb ( 14022 )

        My guess is that they coordinate this with further removal of end-user control/subscription/etc on the desktop side of Win 10.

        This will make crapware disposable Arm Win10 machines palatable to most people when the alternative is paying Intel prices for basically the same OS experience.

        It's also likely targeted at the education market and other similar ones that have taken up Chromebooks.

  • If they can get it on ARM and ensure native applications function bug free, then they might be able to have a true "single device" usable as phone and desktop. Currently, the Windows 10 phones that can be docked offers a watered down version of Win10 that just feels like you're looking at a phone screen on a desktop monitor. I've been waiting for this for a while.
    • The problem isn't screen design.

      It's things like Microsoft accounts tied to your PERSONAL computer's login, cloud storage on Microsoft's servers (vs storage YOU control), random UX changes, and telemetry being rammed down your raw esophagus. Or at least Microsoft trying to annoy you and nudge you into using that junk.

    • Windows kernel everywhere is the goal. Your PC, phone, tablet, eventually TV, watch, car.

  • They are providing the venders Windows 10S, which only runs apps from the app store. It is running on ARM processors. Isn't this just RT with the possibility of running emulated regular Windows applications?
  • Nor is the weight or thickness of these laptop models.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    "Always Connected PC" = always being spied on PC.

  • Where I work, if it isn't HP and Microsoft, it's not a computer (for which I disagree). Looking at the posts it seems that Slashdot commentators think that if it's not Intel and Microsoft, it's doomed. I'll stick to Unix on ARM, thank you.

    Oh, and hasn't Apple made a roaring profit (=success) of ARM (iPads) for the last few years? Why shouldn't Microsoft?

    • by gtall ( 79522 )

      "Why shouldn't Microsoft?" Because Microsoft is incapable of doing it without screwing it up?

  • Microsoft and Qualcomm are showing off the first Windows 10 on ARM devices, which provide Win32 app compatibility via emulation.

    I think that's kind of a slippery slope for Microsoft. Probably not many Windows programs are going to be ported to Win10 ARM. So you get people used to work with most programs in emulation and then you find that they substitute Windows10 + emulator by Android + emulator, or iOS + emulator. I see in the future a Microsoft vs. Apple/Google lawsuit where Microsoft claims, Oracle-style, copyright over the Win32 API.

    However, seeing the docking stations of Samsumg last models, that can turn the mobile into a sor

  • The invisible hand of the free market is going to give them the finger... again. ;)

  • As odd as it might sound, the coolest part of this to me is the work put into the emulation layer... I've probably been living under a rock in this area, though. Are good, working, fast x86 Win32 emulators for ARM processors so commonplace these days that the feature doesn't even get a mention in the summary?

    • Can it be ported/repurposed to run Windows applications under desktop Linux on ARM? :)
      • by twdorris ( 29395 )

        Presumably not since I'm sure it relies heavily on the WoW system to work. But that native x86->ARM instruction set layer just seems pretty cool to me.

    • by caseih ( 160668 )

      CPU emulation has been with us for a while. Typically you can get up to 1/3 performance doing dynamic translation of instructions. I used to do this years ago on my G4 PowerBook. I used a PPC Linux distro, but had the Qemu system emulation working. Unlike full machine emulation, system emulation emulates the instructions, while passing Linux kernel calls on to the real, native, kernel. The result is that applications run fairly. In fact I used to run the x86 adobe flash plugin in my PPC firefox (don

      • by twdorris ( 29395 )

        Typically you can get up to 1/3 performance doing dynamic translation of instructions.

        Yeah, I guess that's the part that surprises me most about this. It's already an underpowered system running straight ARM stuff. So I'm thinking they put some extra cool, highly-optimized translation layer in this to get it working acceptably.

        Of course, my assumption that it works "acceptably" could be wrong too...

      • by imgod2u ( 812837 )

        The issue with emulation across processor architectures isn't so much the instructions with a 1-to-1 (or 1-to-n) mapping. That's easy enough to substitute (even keep a small software cache of, so you don't need to repeat it).

        The problem is the odd behaviors of each architecture. For example, ARM has a very relaxed memory ordering requirement for performance reasons. While x86 does total store ordering (all writes to memory are guaranteed to be ordered). Oftentimes, ARM processor designs rely on said orderin

      • by DrXym ( 126579 )
        The situation for Apple was a little different because they basically killed the Motorola CPU product line so people had no choice to upgrade. But they also made the transition relatively painless with good emulation, "fat" binaries and a performance bump to incentivize people to shift over.

        It's not even the first time for Windows has tried though either. Microsoft ported Windows NT to some other CPU architectures. The version for DEC Alpha had x86 instruction set emulation built into it. Not sure how wel

  • for a doorstop. Windows 10S? Seriously? Buy a reasonably good android tablet, plus a few battery packs. Less Big Brother, and if google annoys you too much, there are other options. Seems to be too much "ME TOO!" here.
  • by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @04:41PM (#55683411)

    store only and Edge engine only = fail

  • by JohnFen ( 1641097 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @06:38PM (#55684295)

    Running Windows 10?

    No. Just No.

  • I would love a laptop with weekend battery life and always on LTE. But I am not willing to wait for half an hour when it decides to install the updates and I need to print out boarding passes for an upcoming flight. Somehow no other OS is as intrusive or slow at updating itself.

  • Because Windows RT went over sooo well! Remember that? This is basically the same thing. Windows 10S sounds a lot like Windows RT 2.0. Only Windows store apps and no backwards compatibility with older desktop Windows apps. Screw that!
  • The first round of crippled devices didn't exactly go well, why should this be any better?
  • Seriously. How many times does the Win+ARM platform have to crash, burn, and explode shit all over everything in the area before Microsoft learns?

    Didn't they take ENOUGH of a loss on their LAST attempt with the non-x86 Surface tablets?

    Or are they just going to ship the losses to third-party manufacturers this time?

    That'll only work once...

  • Spyware running 24/7. What's not to like about that ?

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