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Net Neutrality: 'Father Of Internet' Joins Tech Leaders in Condemning Repeal Plan (theguardian.com) 170

More than 20 internet pioneers and leaders including the "father of the internet", Vint Cerf; the inventor of the world wide web, Tim Berners-Lee; and the Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak have urged the FCC to cancel its vote to repeal net neutrality, describing the plan as "based on a flawed and factually inaccurate" understanding of how the internet works. From a report: "The FCC's rushed and technically incorrect proposed order to repeal net neutrality protections without any replacement is an imminent threat to the internet we worked so hard to create. It should be stopped," said the technology luminaries in an open letter to lawmakers (PDF) with oversight of the Federal Communications Commission on Monday. The letter refers to the FCC's proposed Restoring Internet Freedom Order, which removes net neutrality protections introduced in 2015 to ensure that internet service providers (ISPs) such as Comcast, AT&T and Verizon would treat all web content and applications equally and not throttle, block or prioritise some content in return for payment. The FCC's vote on the proposed order is scheduled for 14 December and it is expected to be approved. "It is important to understand that the FCC's proposed order is based on a flawed and factually inaccurate understanding of Internet technology," the internet pioneers state, adding that the flaws were outlined in detail in a 43-page comment submitted by 200 tech leaders to the FCC in July.
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Net Neutrality: 'Father Of Internet' Joins Tech Leaders in Condemning Repeal Plan

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  • Legal Phrasing (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sconeu ( 64226 ) on Monday December 11, 2017 @01:44PM (#55717761) Homepage Journal

    It's not phrased in legal terms, therefore Pai will ignore it.

    Of course, if it was phrased the way he wanted, he'd find another reason to ignore it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by AlanObject ( 3603453 )

      .. Pai will ignore it.

      It does seem more and more that the fix is in. Follow the money: "legal tender" trumps "public interest" every time.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Exactly! It is clear that Ijit Pie and possibly others at the FCC have been bought and paid for to push the agenda that the big ISPs and Telecom companies want. Want to see who benefits most from pretty much anything these days? FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!!!

    • It's not phrased in legal terms, therefore Pai will ignore it.

      Sarcasm aside, if you actually take a look at the submission it's pretty clear it was written by lawyers.

    • by Holi ( 250190 )
      If it was phrased in a way he wants it would say "Abolish Net Neutrality. -Your beloved owner Verizon"
    • legal tender terms

      ftfy

  • Sometimes I think the current administration is just doing things to purposely piss people off, like a heel in wrestling.

    • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      Sometimes I think the current administration is just doing things to purposely piss people off, like a heel in wrestling.

      T is a WWE fan, so it wouldn't surprise me. Most politicians usually try diplomatic or indirect wording when they criticize in order to avoid inflaming those criticized. T tossed that rule out the window and jumped up and down on it with his 300 lb body: Twitter seems connected directly to the core of his brain (micro-USB ;-)

      Another problem is consistency. In the past he's talked about b

      • by reg ( 5428 )

        Twitter seems connected directly to the core of his brain (micro-USB ;-)

        Given the lack of error correction, I'm pretty sure it is an old school 2-wire serial link, with no parity bits (can you have disparity bits?) and definitely no stop bits. Also seems to suffer from lots of external interference....

  • He's a bona fide e celebrity and he's also very pro Net Neutrality. Which Google clearly see as being in their long term interests.

  • by Camel Pilot ( 78781 ) on Monday December 11, 2017 @02:01PM (#55717927) Homepage Journal

    What is the problem they are trying to fix by repealing Net Neutrality? I don't get it...

    • by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Monday December 11, 2017 @02:14PM (#55718079) Journal

      What is the problem they are trying to fix by repealing Net Neutrality? I don't get it...

      GOP more or less says, "It gives companies freedom to innovate and create jobs. More freedom = more jobs & more innovation."

      Of course there are practical limits to the benefits of high-freedom, and as most of us know, oligopolies usually end up abusing freedom to lock out competition and lock in customers; ruining what capitalism is supposed to provide in theory: competition and choice.

      The bottom line is that telecom oligopolies spend a lot of campaign donations to get their way: and bribery works.

      • Correction: "...spend a lot on campaign donations..." (not "of")

      • Almost. Repealing net neutrality falls in line with the Free Market dogma of less government regulation.

        Unfortunately, the Internet Service industry is not a free market. In most areas, the local government has granted a single ISP a monopoly. This is what's causing the problem - government interference in the market, not oligopolies (small group of companies which rise to the top on their own merit). By granting a monopoly, customers cannot switch to a different ISP, meaning the ISP can do whatever
        • If Trump/Pai stick to the free market dogma and also outlaw local governments from granting service monopolies, then net neutrality isn't needed.

          Outlawing local monopolies would help some (although how this can be legally implemented I am unsure of - I am sure that Trump/Pai can't do it) but would hardly eliminate the need.

          There all kinds of ways of preventing competition for the local distribution system (the pole access restrictions on Google requiring them to get their competitor to agree to perform service...). But most important is the high cost of entry.

          It is economically infeasible for many competitors to lay down fiber - it is a 'natural mon

        • by Straif ( 172656 )

          The problem is that under a proper constitutional reading Trump/Pai are doing exactly what should be done (though probably by accident); removing Federal regulations.

          The local monopolies are truly the real problem but they are just that, a local matter and should be handled at the State and local levels not the Federal. The problem is that the media loves to make everything a federal case no matter how much the problem is not actually a federal one. It's sexier to blame the great and powerful "Trump admin

      • by pots ( 5047349 )

        Of course there are practical limits to the benefits of high-freedom

        That's one way to look at it. You could also see it as a case of competing freedoms: the telecoms' freedom to fuck us over... er, ::hem:: the telecoms' freedom to take advantage of their market position, vs. everyone else's freedom to use the internet as they choose (rather than in whichever way the telecoms choose).

    • by Anonymous Coward

      That it was a violation of federal law when it was implemented. They want to revert back to the prior ways before someone challenges it in the courts and the current administration is forced to defend a regulation they did not put in place and do not agree with.

    • Yes, the cabal of major ISPs (AT&T/Comcast/Verizon) are prohibited from carving the internet into a cable like system with Net Neutrality, preventing them from changing you by the "station", or in this case, site. Additionally, they want be able to develop "profiles" of your surfing habits and sell them to marketers without your knowledge or permission.
      Repealing NN is an estimated $8B dollar gimme to the cabal.
      To achieve their aim, they have peppered congress with $101M in gravy to ensure their vict
    • by bigpat ( 158134 )

      What is the problem they are trying to fix by repealing Net Neutrality? I don't get it...

      I will bite. I hope this is going to be one step back and two steps forward and not just one step back. But being skeptical is likely the wisest response.

      Though I don't agree with lifting net neutrality in this fashion without the FCC actually addressing at least the technical aspects of what minimum standard levels of inter-connectivity we want and need for our telecoms to provide to the country. But I do and did disagree with the blanket approach to Net Neutrality which appeared to focus too much on con

    • What is the problem they are trying to fix by repealing Net Neutrality?

      The problem they are trying to fix is that the major telecoms are slightly limited in how much they can rip off the public. They want to remove those limits.

  • Technology just amplifies what's already there. For the people who are interested in using it it expand their world and genuinely connect with and learn from others, I think social media is tremendously beneficial. But if you're determined to be prejudiced, it can give you an endless source of justification for your prejudices, and if you're vulnerable to disinformation, you can find enough to choke on. Most importantly, both the good and bad effects are probably at work in everyone. Otherwise smart, good
  • All it will take is 1 money man to control it all & buy up all the ISPs out there (yes, it's doable - monopoly laws = shit now) to control what is said, seen, & heard.

    APK

    P.S.=> Welcome to the 'gated community' that is going to be nothing more than a cattle herding brainwashing system to CONTROL THE MASSES (who often don't think for themselves which IS excusable as they're only products of their environmental inputs believing what they're told as I was myself as a boy believing they actually TELL

  • Public Support, “Light Touch” Regulation, and the Coming Court Challenges https://www.nakedcapitalism.co... [nakedcapitalism.com] So, handing over half of US households to the tender mercies of an ISP monopoly is transparent, alright, but not, I think, in the way that Pai means. I’m sure the populist farmers and Grangers of Minnesota or South Dakota who had to ship their grain to market over one railroad in the 1880s would find RIFO oddly familiar. “Freedom for whom?” they might ask.
  • Google arbitrarily blocks Amazon devices from accessing its content... https://www.ft.com/content/500... [ft.com]
    • That has nothing to do with Net Neutrality. As the Obama administration passed the NN regulations, Google would still be free to do that. Funny how Google and co were never harmed by NN. Wonder whose pockets they line.

  • besides Trump and Big Business / the cable providers I mean...

    • by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Monday December 11, 2017 @02:29PM (#55718217) Journal

      Re:Does *anyone* actually support repeal?...besides Trump and Big Business / the cable providers I mean...

      If Fox News, Rush L., Breitbart News, and their copy-cats say "it's good", most their readers/viewers will believe it uncritically.

      If "the liberals" hate it, it must be good. It's being spun as a plot by liberals to gain control of the media and make government bigger, giving the gov't more power to force socialism on red states, outlaw Christmas, take away their guns, create welfare-dependent zombies who vote for more welfare, etc. Basically, an old-fashioned slippery-slope argument.

      Their script is pretty predictable by now for anyone who has followed politics for a few decades.

      • by Rakarra ( 112805 )

        If "the liberals" hate it, it must be good. It's being spun as a plot by liberals to gain control of the media and make government bigger, giving the gov't more power to force socialism on red states, outlaw Christmas, take away their guns, create welfare-dependent zombies who vote for more welfare, etc. Basically, an old-fashioned slippery-slope argument.

        As much as I'm personally in favor of Net Neutrality, giving the FCC power to impose Internet regulations is a VERY VERY bad thing. It always has been, the 1990s is a nice list of case studies why giving government regulatory power on the Internet is terrible. The only reason there's any discussion here is the ISPs have been forcing everyone's hand, and that citizens don't have choice in the broadband world.

        • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

          the 1990s is a nice list of case studies why giving government regulatory power on the Internet is terrible.

          What are the 2 strongest examples?

          • by Rakarra ( 112805 )

            The Communications Decency Act is a good start. Other anti-pornography/decency laws dovetail nicely into it. Porn was the most visible difference, but diversity of opinion, an open expression of ideas, knowledge on all sorts of subjects (though mostly computers). Sadly, 20 years later, we're far far more divided and partisan than we ever were, but back then on the 'net, everyone's big chant was "don't meddle with our Internet." We liked its Wild West flavor. We didn't want tons of regulations for what we're

            • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

              Communications Decency Act is a good start. Other anti-pornography/decency laws dovetail nicely into it.

              Ironically, conservatives are the one who want to regulate sex and sexual issues in communications & elsewhere, the same ones who otherwise claim laissez faire is usually the best route. Conservatives are for freedom of the wallet, but not freedom of sex/gender.

      • by Trogre ( 513942 )

        Very much so.

        When Donald Trump pulled the US out of negotiations for the despicable TPPA for example, protesters around the world who were vehemently opposed to the deal suddenly fell silent and eventually came back saying perhaps the deal wasn't so bad after all.

  • by mcmonkey ( 96054 ) on Monday December 11, 2017 @02:24PM (#55718167) Homepage

    "It is important to understand that the FCC's proposed order is based on a flawed and factually inaccurate understanding of Internet technology."

    It's not they don't understand. It's that they don't care. Or put another way, it's not a bug, it's a feature.

    The powers-that-be behind the repeal of Net Neutrality know what the effects will be. They're counting on them.

    • Too many slashdotters are surprised politicians and political appointees are not logical. Keep in mind you are dealing with Ferengi's, NOT Vulcans. Rule of Acquisition #623: "Logic is Not Profitable" (disclaimer: I made up that ROA, although there are existing similar ones.)

      Note that I am not making a distinction between parties nor administrations here. It's a general rule. As far which group is more Ferengish, I'll leave that debate to another thread. And you can substitute "power" for profits in many sit

  • the father need to produce more bastard internets this one has grown sick and is about to die.

  • You're going to have to show up at the polls. And that includes your primary. Until there's a party in charge that supports it it's dead.
  • by perry64 ( 1324755 ) on Monday December 11, 2017 @03:02PM (#55718477)

    "It is important to understand that the FCC's proposed order is based on a flawed and factually inaccurate understanding of Internet technology,"

    This is very incorrect. The FCC understands that, without net neutrality, internet technology will lock in far more profits for Comcast and their allies. That's the only thing that they care about.

    All their verbiage that people are decrying as incorrect is nothing more than FUD to justify a decision that has nothing to do with technology, or what's best for the majority of people, or anything else besides increasing and, more to the point, ensuring profits for the big guys for years to come.

  • Tim Berners-Lee favored fast lanes which makes him support Pai's position on Net Neutrality. I quoted him 10 years ago here http://www.zdnet.com/article/a... [zdnet.com]. He said "Net Neutrality is NOT saying that one shouldn’t pay more money for high quality of service. We always have, and we always will."
    • by Anonymous Coward

      Sounds to me like he says, you should be able to pay for higher bandwidth.
      He doesn't say: You should have to pay extra to get access to specific information based on the payment scheme your internet provider decided for you.
      High quality of service: low ping times, high bandwidth

  • He conclusively proves that the FCC doesn't understand the Internet; then he concludes, therefore, the FCC should be the ones to regulate it. I'm not sure I follow that.

  • " You can't fix stupid " Ron White - Comedian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
  • Bob Kahn, co-designer of TCP/IP (with Vint obviously) has been against net neutrality for many years.

"I have not the slightest confidence in 'spiritual manifestations.'" -- Robert G. Ingersoll

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