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Transportation Government Power United States

LAPD Is Not Using the Electric BMWs It Announced In 2016 (cbslocal.com) 135

Posted by BeauHD from the red-light-green-light dept.
mi shares a report from CBS Los Angeles: "In a 2016 well-choreographed press conference, LAPD Chief Charlie Beck got out of an electric BMW driven by Mayor Garcetti to tout the city's ambitious project [to provide electric cars for the department]," reports CBS Los Angeles. "The cost: $10.2 million, which includes charging stations." However, the cars have seen very little use. With the monthly lease payment of a little more than $418, one vehicle ends up costing taxpayers over $15 a mile to use. Some of the use they do get is improper too, alleges CBS Los Angeles, citing footage captured from several hidden cameras. "We followed someone after leaving the downtown police garage; they went to the drive-through at Yoshinoya," reports CBS. "On another day, someone drove from downtown LA to Loyola Marymount University in West LA, picked up someone who appeared to be a student, and went to lunch." The deputy chief is looking into what CBS found and says the cars are to be used for business only.
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LAPD Is Not Using the Electric BMWs It Announced In 2016 More

LAPD Is Not Using the Electric BMWs It Announced In 2016

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  • Toys for Thugs (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sexconker ( 1179573 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2018 @07:57PM (#55950331)

    Did anyone think they'd be anything but taxpayer-funded toys for thugs?

    • Re:Toys for Thugs (Score:4, Insightful)

      by rtb61 ( 674572 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2018 @09:35PM (#55950801) Homepage

      You got the thugs, you choose and trained and allowed to write up imaginary policies (law enforcement policies are not law and should not be treated as such). Choose better people, train them properly a 2 year college degree, write laws to control them so they do not run around like freaks inventing their own policies, test for psychopathy and exclude in recruitment and existing and turn trigger happy law enforcer into peace keeping first responder in any and all emergencies and trained as such (fire, medical, societal and law, actual proper law training). Get rid of insane county based policing, huge waste of administrative costs, lack of uniform policing across the state hugely disadvantaging some citizens, poorly trained and often corrupt, turned into revenue streams preying on citizens.

      In most sane countries, the proper response to non-active duty use of idle vehicles, as long as it was reasonable use, as long as the vehicle was not actively needed, as long as permission was sought and idle use was approved and knowledge of the vehicle location maintained should use be necessary (logically also involving the person in question), the job is tough and high stress, perks like this improve working conditions and make for better officers as long as it is not abused, as long as the public does not hate it's law enforcers who in turn hate the public.

      Want even better officers, managed negative contact hours ie for each negative contact hour, arresting someone, active confrontational policing provided an hour of non-negative contact time, visiting works place and places or residence to establish working relationships with citizens, getting to know your police and your police getting to know you, supporting, managing and securing local public recreational facilities to promote healthy social use (yeah police should actively be trying to creating healthier more peaceful communities, through positive reinforcing actions).

      You want a better society you have to make it, you can not buy, sell or trade it, that's a corrupt society and it eats itself rather than producing more for it's citizens.

      • Better police training won't fix the badlaws and the kangaroo courts.

        • Better police training won't fix the badlaws and the kangaroo courts.

          By the same token, fixing "badlaws" and kangaroo courts won't necessarily fix policing. Besides, one does not preclude the other. There's no reason both can't be tackled simultaneously.

          Gotta start somewhere. Starting where the government force meets the people is a pretty good place to start.in my opinion, if the goal is to improve relations and reduce crime and violence (both by criminals and bad cops) in our neighborhoods.

          Strat

      • the job is tough and high stress, perks like this improve working conditions and make for better officers as long as it is not abused

        You wanna bet that the people using those cars are the high ranking officers or the administrative staff of those high ranking officers (and not the stressed frontline police officers that you're talking about). Because that's what happens when you have a limited amount of perks to give out, they tend to percolate up to the top.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by judoguy ( 534886 )

        In most sane countries, the proper response to non-active duty use of idle vehicles, as long as it was reasonable use...

        In Minneapolis the cops drive their squad cars all the time even off duty. The LEO across the street from me said it was policy because it's thought that the presence of squad cars helps suppress some illegal activity. It gives the impression of more active patrols than are really scheduled. This is partly true because even an off duty cop might step in when needed. I know that I liked having his squad car parked across the street at night.

        I definitely felt that it had at least the potential for suppressi

        • I can give my own anecdote about this. Having lived near a busy intersection where people seemed to enjoy testing the maximum acceleration of their custom-exhaust equipped vehicle (i.e. no muffler), noise was a bit of an issue. The state police in this area had the policy of letting officers park their cruisers at home when off duty, and when my new cop neighbor moved in it was amazing the difference it made.

  • Stop the freaking presses!

    Yes, electric BMWs are a wasteful boondoggle, but using one to get lunch doesn't even cause the police abuse meter to twitch.

    If it was NYPD in the 1970s, they'd be using the cars to pimp out their own hookers to drug dealers...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by JBMcB ( 73720 )

      Yes, electric BMWs are a wasteful boondoggle, but using one to get lunch doesn't even cause the police abuse meter to twitch.

      It does if it costs taxpayers $15/mile to operate.

      • Re:Wait: A policemen used a police car to get lunc (Score:5, Informative)

        by Xenx ( 2211586 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2018 @08:55PM (#55950587)
        It doesn't cost $15/mile to operate. The lease payment divided by the number of miles driven on average is $15/mile.

        • It doesn't cost $15/mile to operate. The lease payment divided by the number of miles driven on average is $15/mile.

          Exactly. By adding to the total distance, driving to lunch pushed down the average dollar per mile cost, and likely actually saved the taxpayers money.

          These journalists should learn how to do basic math, and stop pestering the police.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Xenx ( 2211586 )
            Obviously, driving down the lease cost per mile wouldn't actually change anything itself. However, given that they're already paying the lease on the electric cars.. any use of electric over gasoline would be a savings to the taxpayers.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by gnick ( 1211984 )

            By adding to the total distance, driving to lunch pushed down the average dollar per mile cost, and likely actually saved the taxpayers money.

            I apologize if that's a joke, but I don't think that's how math works.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jrumney ( 197329 )
        It's only costing $15 per mile because they are not using them the rest of the time they aren't fetching lunch.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jrumney ( 197329 )
      Yeah, but give them a BMW, and they start getting their lunch from fancy-pants foreign chains. Think of the devastating effect on Dunkin Donuts. That is improper.

  • The supposed reason... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mi ( 197448 ) <slashdot-2017q4@virtual-estates.net> on Wednesday January 17, 2018 @08:00PM (#55950347) Homepage Journal

    According to TFA, the Department's employees explained their reluctance to use the environment-friendly vehicles by their low mileage:

    But sources say some personnel are reluctant to use the electric cars because they can only go 80-100 miles on a charge.

    Strange — though low in comparison with a gasoline- or (especially) diesel-powered car, the distance seems quite sufficient for a city's police car. Do they really ever need to exceed 50 miles in a day?

    • Re:The supposed reason... (Score:4, Funny)

      by msauve ( 701917 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2018 @08:06PM (#55950367)
      Cops are stupid. Give an electric vehicle with an 80 mile range to a maintenance worker, and watch them nap twice a day while it's recharging.

    • Two hours at 25mph is a shift? (Score:5, Informative)

      by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2018 @08:30PM (#55950455) Journal

      In an eight-shift, yes a cop will drive a lot more than 50 miles.

      • And LA is pretty big.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by mi ( 197448 )

        In an eight-shift, yes a cop will drive a lot more than 50 miles.

        Just how big does his beat need to be for distances like that? Long like that and without stopping at the station — where he can switch to another, fully recharged, car?

        Sure, if you are driving on a highway with low-to-moderate traffic, you can cover 50 miles in less than 1 hour, but that's not the typical use for police patrol car...

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jaseuk ( 217780 )

          The typical use is driving round continuously at maybe 20-25mph average patrolling a town/city I guess. So that car is going to last 4-5 hrs with a few donut stops. Police also operate 24 hrs, the car isn't expected to get a break. If they need to be ready to attend an incident a few miles out at any given time, it's easy to see how these things are totally impractical for police work. Maintaining a 2x-3x larger fleet for hot spares just seems to be throwing more money at a bad idea.

          By way of comparison

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by kenh ( 9056 )

          Just how big does his beat need to be for distances like that? Long like that and without stopping at the station — where he can switch to another, fully recharged, car?

          So, in your mind the police force needs to have two electric cars to keep one car on patrol? Doesn't that seem a little excessive/expensive? It takes between 30 minutes to 3 hours to charge the car, it takes 3-5 minutes to fill the tank of an internal combustion cruiser. If you have to purchase twice as many cars, which means 2x everything in the cruiser, when do the savings kick in?

          These cruisers were a stupid waste of city resources ($16M to buy useless patrol cars).

      • Re:Two hours at 25mph is a shift? (Score:5, Informative)

        by whoever57 ( 658626 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2018 @08:55PM (#55950595) Journal

        These vehicles had the range-extender engine (REx), so daily max range is about 150 - 200 miles (depending on the battery option).

        • Unless you drive it on the highway, then it's 50 miles.

          https://newatlas.com/2017-bmw-... [newatlas.com]

          At 80MPH on a Wyoming highway the battery was flat after 50 miles. The range extender is only 25kW, so top speed is limited to 75MPH on flat road with no head-wind. 100% to 0% in a little over half an hour of cruising.

          I doubt it would last 10 minutes in a car chase. Probably overheat the battery or motor in 5.

          • At 80MPH on a Wyoming highway the battery was flat after 50 miles

            That range is worrisome. Fortunately, it is also incorrect. Read that article again and you'll see its author drove 100 miles before needing the range extender (the first leg was 50 highway miles). That 100 mile range is about what I get in my (battery only) i3. Hot and cold weather reduce the distance the car will go, but the range extender on those LAPD i3s eliminates the risk of being stranded in urban areas since the gas tank can be refilled indefinitely (though with very poor performance).

            These c

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by kenh ( 9056 )

              the range extender on those LAPD i3s eliminates the risk of being stranded in urban areas since the gas tank can be refilled indefinitely (though with very poor performance).

              The electric i3 is a battery charging engine, the car does not run on it - it puts out a fraction of the power the battery produces, so once the battery runs down to zero, the car is dead until you add gasoline and let the car sit while you run the gasoline generator to put some power in the batteries.

              These cars are plainly useful for trips taking up to about 2 hours; they are fun to drive if not particularly sporty; their small size makes them easy to pack and maneuver; and a level 3 charger will top off the battery in an hour. Also, range anxiety disappears for most EV drivers as they get familiar with driving their cars.

              Something else is going wrong with this program, but TFA doesn't provide a satisfying answer. I wonder what it is.

              The answer is that a police cruiser runs typically three 8 hour shifts in a day, seven days a week. This car can go 2-3 hours before it needs to rest for an hour and recharge. In a 24 hour period that's as man

              • The electric i3 is a battery charging engine, the car does not run on it - it puts out a fraction of the power the battery produces, so once the battery runs down to zero, the car is dead until you add gasoline and let the car sit while you run the gasoline generator to put some power in the batteries.

                Not so. The gas powered generator turns on when the battery charge drops below a factory set threshold, and the car keeps running though with greatly reduced performance.

                The answer is that a police cruiser runs typically three 8 hour shifts in a day, seven days a week...

                Are you saying that all of the LAPD's marked vehicles are used for this type of driving? I had not considered that possibility (because it is untrue).

                • Are you saying that all of the LAPD's marked vehicles are used for this type of driving? I had not considered that possibility (because it is untrue).

                  For the LAPD, they probably have some extra marked vehicles to cover maintenance, accidents, and other issues that cause extended downtime. However, I doubt that LAPD has a large surplus of marked vehicles They've been running a large police force for a long time and likely know exactly what percentage of spare vehicles they need to keep. If you were referring to unmarked vehicles then, yes, I would say you're right. They probably don't run all of those 24/7. LAPD does not allow their patrol officers u

        • The range extender is fed by a tiny 2.4 gallon tank, so only adds a bit more than 60 miles. Realistically it'll be closer to 40-50 miles since you're not going to want to drive into the gas station on fumes. The reason for this CARB (California Air Resources Board). They set the rules for what defines an EV [greencarreports.com]. For an EV to be linked to a gas engine, the engine cannot drive the wheels directly (it has to drive a generator), and it cannot have more range on gas than on battery. The original i3 had a minimu

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by be951 ( 772934 )
        These are not patrol cars. They're for administrative staff usage.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by PCM2 ( 4486 )

      Do they really ever need to exceed 50 miles in a day?

      I don't know. I wouldn't be shocked if they did that much in L.A. The thing is, I've heard it said that because police cars spend so much time idling while the officers are doing paperwork, sipping coffee, etc, cop car mechanics have instruments to tell them how long the engine has actually been running, rather than just looking at the odometer. I imagine an all-electric vehicle would get less overall wear and tear in this way, because the motor isn't doing anything when you're not moving?

      • I imagine an all-electric vehicle would get less overall wear and tear in this way, because the motor isn't doing anything when you're not moving?

        It's enough to have an electric heat pump in a hybrid. It will auto stop-start and it doesn't need to idle to run the HVAC. Basically everything is going hybrid now, except pure sports cars. It's an option at the moment, but soon you won't be able to buy really anything without electrification.

        • Also add in their electronics and you have a pretty significant drain.

          I never thought these were supposed to be cruisers though, just general department cars and maybe parking/traffic enforcement. Administrative use is reasonable; the department is huge and there are quite a few people who need to shuffle between the various sites with pool vehicles.

    • Re:The supposed reason... (Score:5, Informative)

      by iggymanz ( 596061 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2018 @08:59PM (#55950621)

      looking at stats for patrol cars in Chicago and nearby (which have 2 or 3 operators per day), 120+ miles per day is normal

    • I doubt it would get 50 miles of involved in a car chase.
      It would probably switch to limp-mode after 10 minutes with a hot battery. Like the old Tesla when they tried to send it around the Nurburgring

      It also has a top speed of just 93MPH
      Want to out-run a BMW i3? Put your foot down for more than 10 seconds. 20 if you have a slow car.

      • Yeah? Let's you outrun a Motorola

      • I doubt it would get 50 miles of involved in a car chase.

        Don't forget horrific understeer and a suspension lacking the ability to keep the car's bicycle-width tires on the road. On the other hand, the last time I was there, LA freeway traffic moved at speeds closer to 9.3mph than 93. Moreover, I seems to me that you are missing the point if you think all police vehicles need to be chase cars, but then there must be some reason these cars are not being driven.

        • Don't all patrol cars need to be able to chase? Obviously not all of them at the same time.
          If the closest officer to an incident can't respond, there really wasn't any point in them being there in the first place. May as well stay at the station. If they had to get somewhere, may as well have taken a cab.

          The tire comment is quite relevant. It's probably the only car over 1000kg to ever be sold with 155 tires, ever. According to BMW it's curb weight is 1,467kb/3,234lbs.
          Even a Fiat 500 has 185 width tires.

          The

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by kenh ( 9056 )

      Do they really ever need to exceed 50 miles in a day?

      Yes.

      Police cruisers are typically run three shifts a day, seven days a week - only driving 100 miles/day between charges which can be as quick as 30 minutes on a DC charger or the more typical 3 hours using fast charge technology. A gas engine can be ordered with the car to give it a 150 mile range (the car can not run for any extended period on the gasoline engine, it is only to charge the battery).

      Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      A police cruiser, coasting through town at an average of 20 MPH (typ

    • Strange â" though low in comparison with a gasoline- or (especially) diesel-powered car, the distance seems quite sufficient for a city's police car. Do they really ever need to exceed 50 miles in a day?

      While I am not a police officer, I have performed similar duties in city a bit smaller than Los Angeles. I racked up about 280 miles a day.

  • Smug (Score:2, Funny)

    by Templer421 ( 4988421 )

    But it DOES get much more Smugness per mile.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2018 @09:38PM (#55950823)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Yes, BMW is worse than Harley Davidson in terms of maintenance and cost of ownership, but both are actually pretty bad. [latimes.com] LAPD should just have gone with a Japanese brand like Yamaha instead.

    • Also I suppose the BMWs have the advantage in cases where, for example, you need some speed, or you need to go around a corner or weave through traffic. Say, if you have to go somewhere and time is of the essence because a crime has been committed, or you see someone who is not following the road rules and they speed off and you judge it best to try and catch them. I guess these would be situations that might happen to members of the LAPD - perhaps even more often than needing to make loud fart like noises

  • >"one vehicle ends up costing taxpayers over $15 a mile to use."

    What do they care? It is California. Money means nothing to them, which is why they have more debt than any other state and the worse credit rating of ANY state. But keep on pushing that "feel good" stuff... gotta spend, spend, spend, raise taxes to the highest in the nation and yet still spend, spend, spend some more.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    • California has a 6 billion dollar budget surplus and a sizable rainy day fund. It has more debt than any other state because it has twice as many people as any other state, obviously... and also direct democracy where voters keep voting for bond measures.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kenh ( 9056 )

        So they run a $6BN surplus each year, yet have insane debt levels?

        Which is it, are they "banking" $6BN/yr or are they increasing their debt by spending more than they have? Hard to see how they are doing both simultaneously. Any idea what California does with their "surplus" each year? (Note - as soon as they spend it, it's no longer "surplus", it's "spending".)

  • " With the monthly lease payment of a little more than $418, one vehicle ends up costing taxpayers over $15 a mile to use."

    Duh!
    Well if they drive only 1 mile per month, it will even cost 418€ per mile.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by kenh ( 9056 )

      It would be more cost-effective for the LAPD to simply hire Uber Eats drivers to pick up lunches for the duration of the current i3 leases with the same $16M they spent on these cars...

  • The original purpose of the expense was for the vehicles to be used as "get around" cars. From the 2016 article:

    "'The i3s will be used in a "non-emergency"' capacity — in other words, you won't likely see them engaged in high-speed police chases, but rather for basic department transportation needs and community outreach."

    So they're not going to be used for beats and thus won't have the massive amounts of miles as the Crown Victorias, Taurus, Chargers, or Explorers. Moreover, you have to compar
    • Community outreach purposes to me means that these are the vehicles that will get paraded into fairs and community events and parked to let the public look at them while some officer lets people crawl in and out of them all day to "check out" the police car up close. Sounds like they were purchased mostly for PR purposes at best. Maybe I'm wrong.

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