Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
Microsoft Windows

Microsoft Brings Native HEIF Support to Windows 10 (thurrott.com) 152

An anonymous reader shares a report: Microsoft is bringing support for the new HEIF image format to Windows 10. First popularized by Apple with iOS 11, HEIF is a new image format that uses less storage space while preserving image quality. The new image format is used by default on Apple's iPhone X and other devices running iOS 11. While Microsoft's online services like OneDrive already supported HEIF since the release of iOS 11, Windows 10 didn't natively support the new format as of yet. But with the upcoming Redstone 4 update -- possibly called the Spring Creators Update -- the Microsoft Photos app in Windows 10 will support HEIF by default. Further reading: CNET.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Microsoft Brings Native HEIF Support to Windows 10

Comments Filter:
  • by Anonymous Coward
    I only used uncompressed image storage formats. They are far superior.
    • If you're going to use an uncompressed image format, you should use TGA.

      • TGA's while being a very nice simple format, and technically could store HDR images, support doesn't seem popular enough to handle sadly.

        How do you _save_

        * 16-bit grayscale (16-bits)
        * 16-bit/channel (64-bits)
        * 32-bit/channel (128-bit)

        Also, which Data Type value would you use?

        Unless Photoshop supports it out-of-the-box the format is dead.

        Speaking of Photoshop -- Adobe Photoshop's native .PSD handle these without any problems and have been around for ages.

        BMP's are easy to read/load they also don't support HD

      • One of the earlier ones to support a proper alpha channel, unless I'm seriously misinformed. Don't recall if it was in the original spec, but this aspect of TGA was handy for getting renders out of ancient software (Asymetrix Web3D or 3Dfx, don't ask), in a format that could be used with very little further work.
    • Sure, once I get a .BMP on my head.
  • by TheFakeTimCook ( 4641057 ) on Monday March 19, 2018 @10:16AM (#56283263)

    WTF is wrong with Microsoft that I can attempt to open a PDF in MS Server 2014, and it STILL can't handle it natively?!?

    Are they waiting to see if PDF will "take off"? Are they waiting to see if their "PDF-Killer" XPS will win-out (hint: It won't). Or what?!?

    What morons.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 19, 2018 @10:22AM (#56283301)

      I think you're first issue is that you're trying to use a version of Server that doesn't exist.

      • I think you're first issue is that you're trying to use a version of Server that doesn't exist.

        You are correct.

        The Server OS is 2012 R2. I was brain-farting the SQL Server version, sorry.

    • WTF is wrong with Microsoft that I can attempt to open a PDF in MS Server 2014, and it STILL can't handle it natively?!?

      In my view, getting P0WN3D should be opt-in.

      • by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 ) on Monday March 19, 2018 @10:39AM (#56283409)

        The basic PDF format is secure, it's only data. That's what OS X/macOS/iOS supports.

        • Malformed WMF and PDF files are excellent malware vectors, among others. And people are not as careful as when they run an executable.

          Vulnerabilities due to a flaw in parsing data are common. Zlib just deals with data right? It had vulnerabilities.

          The basic pdf standard defines segments of text containing compressed data, and that decompression process could have parsing bugs.

        • The basic PDF format is secure, it's only data. That's what OS X/macOS/iOS supports.

          Since OS X 10.0.0. That's why it bugs me to no-end at work, that I have to go install Acrobat Reader on ANYTHING in 2018, just to open a Documentation file.

          • By default, Windows 10 associates PDFs with..... Microsoft Edge. Annoyingly, it restores this default association after any one of those big Windows 10 updates...... grrr.
        • That's what OS X/macOS/iOS supports.

          The caveat there is that this breaks a lot of PDF files out there, is incompatible with anything protected, and isn't that good with embedded content (e.g. a font to render a different language).

          On a server I'd rather be forced to make the choice of what software opens what filetype than rely on my vendor shipping something broken by default to eliminate attack vendors. Just don't ship anything at all.

          Mind you, who opens PDFs on a server, and how do you even get them to display in an 80x25 text mode console

          • That's what OS X/macOS/iOS supports.

            The caveat there is that this breaks a lot of PDF files out there, is incompatible with anything protected, and isn't that good with embedded content (e.g. a font to render a different language).

            On a server I'd rather be forced to make the choice of what software opens what filetype than rely on my vendor shipping something broken by default to eliminate attack vendors. Just don't ship anything at all.

            Mind you, who opens PDFs on a server, and how do you even get them to display in an 80x25 text mode console.

            Even on iOS, you can choose to Open In... any App that can handle the filetype. And on macOS, where the rules about "private libraries" are nonexistent, you can truly have alternate PDF renderers. So, you have the CHOICE to use the built-in PDF libraries, or some other Applications' versions.

        • Until Adobe stopped making PDF a read-only format and started adding all sorts of new and unnecessary features. You should not need to edit PDFs, especially for things that are not meant to be edited (a chip's datasheet for instance). If I have a chip's datahseet, I do not want or need to change that PDF, and yet they all seem to think I want to edit them. A document meant to be edited should be supplied in a different format. I also don't want to have to request and maintain certificates just to look a

      • WTF is wrong with Microsoft that I can attempt to open a PDF in MS Server 2014, and it STILL can't handle it natively?!?

        In my view, getting P0WN3D should be opt-in.

        It is Acrobat that is insecure, not PDF itself. MS has enough Developers to create their own native PDF parser.

    • WTF is wrong with Microsoft that I can attempt to open a PDF in MS Server 2014

      Their client OS supports PDF natively. I think the problem you're having is you're trying to use a server OS as a client OS.

      • [sarcasm]Heaven forbid someone should open and read a PDF document on a server. I mean it's not like everyone uses that format being so obscure. Every installation manual I've used in the last several years was in binary in .txt files.[/sarcasm]
        • by tepples ( 727027 )

          I think the intended use case is to read documentation on the client device through which you are remotely accessing the server.

          • Which shows a complete lack of forethought about real world scenarios on the part of MS. That assumes the scenario that I only remote login to the server and I never have actual access to it. For example the installation is on a CD/USB, it's much easier to stick into the server than upload it to a network share then download it.

            The second part of why that is silly is that after I unpack/unzip the installation files on the server. I have to do the same thing on my machine just to read the documentation on th

            • Which shows a complete lack of forethought about real world scenarios on the part of MS. That assumes the scenario that I only remote login to the server and I never have actual access to it. For example the installation is on a CD/USB, it's much easier to stick into the server than upload it to a network share then download it.

              The second part of why that is silly is that after I unpack/unzip the installation files on the server. I have to do the same thing on my machine just to read the documentation on the installation process. Or transfer them my client machine." That also doesn't take into account if there are issues and I have to look at additional information written in PDF from the vendor.

              Bottom line: There's just NO excuse; and I would be a Meeelion dollars that every one of the Slashtards that is naysaying the completely-foreign concept of being able to open a PDF on their MS Servers HAS ALREADY INSTALLED ACROBAT for that EXACT Reason!

              But they'll never admit it; because they just like to argue.

              • I doubt if most here run Windows servers. Neither do we distribute documentation exclusively in PDF format. I suppose if it were common for servers to have a GUI then we might consider a PDF reader to be necessary. However, my file manager is capable of browsing foreign servers and allowing me to open documents located on those servers, and it's possible that Microsoft has managed to duplicate this functionality as well.

                • I doubt if most here run Windows servers. Neither do we distribute documentation exclusively in PDF format. I suppose if it were common for servers to have a GUI then we might consider a PDF reader to be necessary. However, my file manager is capable of browsing foreign servers and allowing me to open documents located on those servers, and it's possible that Microsoft has managed to duplicate this functionality as well.

                  Straw man, nice to meet you!

                • I doubt if most here run Windows servers.

                  The problem is that lots of businesses run Windows servers and this is a problem.

                  Neither do we distribute documentation exclusively in PDF format.

                  You might not but other companies do document in PDF. Yes they might also have text files and HTML files but PDF is quite common.

                  . I suppose if it were common for servers to have a GUI then we might consider a PDF reader to be necessary.

                  You mean like Windows Server? Sure you can run command line things in Windows Server but it's not all command line.

                  • The problem is that lots of businesses run Windows servers and this is a problem.

                    I would agree, but perhaps with a different emphasis.

                    So in our hypothetical situation of needing to view a PDF on a remote server, what exactly is the problem with opening that folder in Explorer and using your local application to view said document? Are we suggesting that one might have administrative access but not file access? If you need to edit a bitmap on a remote server, would you install Photoshop as well? How about TeX files, or OpenOffice?

                    This is the sort of problem which would only ever occur to

                    • So in our hypothetical situation of needing to view a PDF on a remote server, what exactly is the problem with opening that folder in Explorer and using your local application to view said document?

                      Other than that doesn't work if you don't have a local PDF application installed? Or the ability to install a PDF viewer due to admin privileges? Or the ability to get to download one because the server is firewalled from the Internet? That's the chief complaint is that there is no default reader on Windows Server before 2016. Even then you need to use Edge.

                      Are we suggesting that one might have administrative access but not file access?

                      Not the only access. Having a PDF viewer application would be helpful.

                      If you need to edit a bitmap on a remote server, would you install Photoshop as we

                    • It's really wonderful how you keep deliberately missing the point. The server's role here is to make the files available, and regardless of what the file type is, there is no requirement for it to have a client application installed. If you think otherwise, then apparently Microsoft has damaged your brain to the point of being unable to use a file browser.

                    • It's really wonderful how you keep deliberately missing the point.

                      It's interesting how you don't seem to understand how things work on Windows servers.

                      The server's role here is to make the files available, and regardless of what the file type is, there is no requirement for it to have a client application installed.

                      You mean besides the fact that if the user isn't remote but is actually directly logged into a server. That was the very first thing that I said.

                      . If you think otherwise, then apparently Microsoft has damaged your brain to the point of being unable to use a file browser.

                      Again that only works if you simply ignore the scenario presented.

                    • Dear, the servers are the things in the rack mount, not the ones with the keyboard and monitor attached.

                    • Dear, the servers are the things in the rack mount, not the ones with the keyboard and monitor attached.

                      You do know that there are these things called rackmounted monitors and keyboards [google.com] which allow you to directly access a server on a rack, right? They are designed to be 1U and stow away when not needed. If you don't I would have to wonder when is the last time you actually visited a server room.

                    • So you can't use a keyboard and monitor tray to see documentation . . . how?
                    • Dear, the servers are the things in the rack mount, not the ones with the keyboard and monitor attached.

                      You do know that there are these things called rackmounted monitors and keyboards [google.com] which allow you to directly access a server on a rack, right? They are designed to be 1U and stow away when not needed. If you don't I would have to wonder when is the last time you actually visited a server room.

                      And there are QUADRILLIONS of Stand-Alone Windows Servers that don't live in a Rack; because they are sitting in a closet or a back-room in a small business that doesn't have a full-time (or even part-time) IT Staff. They have a one or a few Power-Users that handle day-to-day "Admin" duties. Doesn't mean they "don't deserve" to read PDF docs on those Servers.

                      And there are also other legit situations where getting a file back from a Remote Server isn't so straightforward. What then?

                    • Shhhh. Let's not spook him. I haven't told him about the mobile cart yet. That might blow his mind that equipment exists where you can move a monitor and keyboard to a server so that you can access it.
                    • Shhhh. Let's not spook him. I haven't told him about the mobile cart yet. That might blow his mind that equipment exists where you can move a monitor and keyboard to a server so that you can access it.

                      Some people are SOOOO myopic. If it doesn't suit their particular use-case or "world-view", it shouldn't be allowed.

                      And unfortunately, not only is that an all-too-common mindset around these here parts; but it seems like the world in general is getting FAR too butthurt on FAR too minor of subjects.

          • I think the intended use case is to read documentation on the client device through which you are remotely accessing the server.

            And when that Client is ALSO a Microsoft OS, like the W7 my work laptop runs, you STILL have to to out of your way to install that bug-fest that is Adobe Acrobat, JUST to read a frickin' file that's in a PUBLIC DOMAIN format!!!

        • [sarcasm]Heaven forbid someone should open and read a PDF document on a server. I mean it's not like everyone uses that format being so obscure. Every installation manual I've used in the last several years was in binary in .txt files.[/sarcasm]

          EXACTLY my point!

          Even MICROSOFT distributes docs in PDF, FFS!

    • If MS built PDF into their OS, there would immediately be cries that they were abusing their monopoly position to try to kill Adobe and third-party PDF apps.
      • It is built into their desktop OS (Edge opens PDF files by default.)
      • If MS built PDF into their OS, there would immediately be cries that they were abusing their monopoly position to try to kill Adobe and third-party PDF apps.

        I think you forgot the sarcasm tag.

    • by Voyager529 ( 1363959 ) <voyager529@ya h o o.com> on Monday March 19, 2018 @11:52AM (#56283839)

      WTF is wrong with Microsoft that I can attempt to open a PDF in MS Server 2014, and it STILL can't handle it natively?!?

      Are they waiting to see if PDF will "take off"? Are they waiting to see if their "PDF-Killer" XPS will win-out (hint: It won't). Or what?!?

      What morons.

      Microsoft ships Win10 with a "print to PDF" option out of the box.

      Also, they natively open PDFs in Edge, to the point of restoring the file association with every major upgrade.

      So, you got exactly what you wanted, in the exact Microsoft way of handling such a situation. I hope you're happy.

      • WTF is wrong with Microsoft that I can attempt to open a PDF in MS Server 2014, and it STILL can't handle it natively?!?

        Are they waiting to see if PDF will "take off"? Are they waiting to see if their "PDF-Killer" XPS will win-out (hint: It won't). Or what?!?

        What morons.

        Microsoft ships Win10 with a "print to PDF" option out of the box.

        Also, they natively open PDFs in Edge, to the point of restoring the file association with every major upgrade.

        So, you got exactly what you wanted, in the exact Microsoft way of handling such a situation. I hope you're happy.

        Well, other than the fact that I was talking specifically about MS SERVER (not Windows 10), AND that "Restoring the Association" is just typical "This is not YOUR computer" MS-think; it IS exactly what I want...

    • WTF is wrong with Microsoft that I can attempt to open a PDF in MS Server 2014, and it STILL can't handle it natively?!?

      That's easy to solve, just install the MS app store on your critical server and install Edge, then everything is handled natively by MS's OS bundled apps.

      Or maybe you're an idiot for wanting this bundled on a server, doubly so from an MS package. Absolutely EVERYTHING should be opt-in on a server, including what happens when I click on a file (that is after I choose to install a GUI).

      • WTF is wrong with Microsoft that I can attempt to open a PDF in MS Server 2014, and it STILL can't handle it natively?!?

        That's easy to solve, just install the MS app store on your critical server and install Edge, then everything is handled natively by MS's OS bundled apps.

        Or maybe you're an idiot for wanting this bundled on a server, doubly so from an MS package. Absolutely EVERYTHING should be opt-in on a server, including what happens when I click on a file (that is after I choose to install a GUI).

        I just used MS Server 14 as an example; because that's where I encountered this long-standing weakness most recently.

        And WHY should I have to use a specific BROWSER to gain system-wide PDF support?!?

        • And WHY should I have to use a specific BROWSER to gain system-wide PDF support?!?

          You don't. You wanted to know why it wasn't natively in there, and now you're complaining at the potential native solution that MS would offer (Edge is the native PDF renderer in Windows 10)

          All this leads me to my original point: Thank Christ the ball is in your court to install something and you're not shipped with a default turd.

          • And WHY should I have to use a specific BROWSER to gain system-wide PDF support?!?

            You don't. You wanted to know why it wasn't natively in there, and now you're complaining at the potential native solution that MS would offer (Edge is the native PDF renderer in Windows 10)

            All this leads me to my original point: Thank Christ the ball is in your court to install something and you're not shipped with a default turd.

            If that is an aside slight regarding MacOS' and iOS' native PDF support; both of those OSes have the ability to Open PDFs in alternate Applications. So, you aren't "stuck" with ANYTHING.

            But if you are just trying to read a PDF documentation file, would you rather have to mess around and Install something; or just Open the frickin' file? Afterall, most documentation files are nothing more than piles of text, with perhaps the occasional table or illustration. None of those elements are likely to trip any esot

      • Absolutely EVERYTHING should be opt-in on a server

        Except systemd, of course.

    • WTF is wrong with Microsoft that I can attempt to open a PDF in MS Server 2014, and it STILL can't handle it natively?!?

      There is a reason for this:

      • WTF is wrong with Microsoft that I can attempt to open a PDF in MS Server 2014, and it STILL can't handle it natively?!?

        There is a reason for this:

        PDF is a Public-Domain Format. Exactly WHAT was Adobe going to "Refuse" them to do, legally?

        And so how is this different from the PDF support built-into Edge in W10?

        • PDF is a Public-Domain Format.

          No, it's an ISO standard, specifically ISO 19005.

          Exactly WHAT was Adobe going to "Refuse" them to do, legally?

          That's a question for Adobe's legal department. I do know that regardless of legality, two large corporations going to war is expensive, so they generally try to avoid it.

    • We use some non-consumer level MS products that use XPS natively, and I prefer those. They're smaller and faster to work with.
    • by stooo ( 2202012 )

      >> MS Server 2014
      We're in 2018. You should use Linux Server 2014 R2 :)

  • MPEG (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ELCouz ( 1338259 ) on Monday March 19, 2018 @10:18AM (#56283273)
    Great ... just what we need another patent minefield image format.
    • Re:MPEG (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 19, 2018 @10:44AM (#56283435)

      The HEIF image format uses the HEVC [wikipedia.org] video codec to encode an image. The fact that HEVC is a patent encumbered mess has been discussed on /. before, so I won't go into that.

      Apparently some people are trying to see if AV1 [wikipedia.org] can be used in the same way patent-encumbered HEVC is used here, too. If that happens, this is a solution in search of a problem, because AV1 is supposed to be as good or better than the HEVC codec, without the patents.

      I hope HEVC never gets a foothold, but instead fades into obsolesence. The greed of a few has, thankfully, nearly killed the HEVC codec[1], but this could unfortunately cause HEVC to come back.

      [1] - For HEVC, unlike its predecessor AVC [wikipedia.org], there are actually multiple patent pools and independent companies you will have to negotiate with for a license. Because of this, some corporations [wikipedia.org] have decided they don't have to deal with this licensing extortion idiocy, and have banded together to make the AV1 codec, and are sticking with patent-free VP9 [wikipedia.org] right now. Unlike AVC, uptake of HEVC has been very slow and it doesn't see very much use.

      • by mccalli ( 323026 )
        Everyone running iOS 11/High Sierra and compatible Apple gear is using HEVC natively [apple.com], without ever knowing it. It most certainly is seeing a lot of use, it was just introduced transparently.
      • by Anonymous Coward

        If you look at this image compression [github.io] comparison tool (note BPG uses HEVC) you'll notice a few things (I recommend the obvious: compare at 3x against the original). (1) All the different sizes are about the same size so the real test is quality per size. (2) At large, (virtually?) all the formats look nearly indistinguishable from the original. (3) Most formats other than jpeg/jpeg2000 get progressively blurrier the small they get while jpeg/jpeg2000 gets blocky*. (4) The ratio from large to original

      • The greed of a few has, thankfully, nearly killed the HEVC codec

        Killed it where? Maybe on the distribution back end of Youtube and Netflix, but it is a very real part of the system behind the scenes in Apple, and MS. That is mostly driven by hardware companies, Intel, NVIDIA, and AMD all support various forms of hardware encoding for HEVC but are limited to decoding only for VP9 and AVC. This also becomes a default in things like video streaming of gaming sessions in Windows.

        Right now hardware encoders for HEVC are dime a dozen, but hardware encoders for the other forma

  • by Anonymous Coward

    HEIF is a container, not an image format. However typical container contents (HEVC and H.264/MPEG-4) are patent encumbered.

  • by l2718 ( 514756 ) on Monday March 19, 2018 @10:35AM (#56283379)
    Why am I not surprised to discover that both the container for format (HEIF) Anna the codec (HVEC) are extensively covered by patents? This is the GIF story again, except this time done deliberately by Apple and Microsoft.
    • by Malc ( 1751 )

      The container is ISO Base Media format, a.k.a. MP4. moov, meta and mdat atoms, as would be expected. MP4 is about as ubiquitous as they come. What's your problem with this?

  • OneDrive doesn't properly support HEIF, or at least didn't as of September last year. https://mspoweruser.com/micros... [mspoweruser.com]

    Microsoft has reached out to us, clarifying that OneDrive on iOS will automatically convert HEIC files to JPEG when you back them up on your iPhone, so you will still be able to view them as regular image files in your Windows 10 device and iPhone.

    • If you're storing files on OneDrive, you're part of the issue -- an enabler of MS's data theft (aka "cloud ecosystem").
    • by JD-1027 ( 726234 )
      Wait, since when does a "drive" convert files before storing them?
  • Are there any implementations for Linux?

    • by Malc ( 1751 )

      It would probably have taken you less time to Google search this than post a "I must mention Linux" comment. GPAC for instance made an announcement at the same time that Apple announced this at WWDC2017.

  • How free is the HEIF format? Can open source support it?
    • by tepples ( 727027 )

      HEIF is like BPG: a single-frame silent movie encoded using HEVC's keyframe encoder. Thus it depends on the same patents as HEVC, making it unusable in free software unless you can afford to move all your users out of countries where these patents are valid.

      • ...making it unusable in free software...

        If that is the case, it looks as if Apple and Microsoft are trying to lock people into their proprietary environments. No surprise.

  • I still use Photoshop CS6 (no real need to 'upgrade'), will the Windows upgrade mean I can open HEIC files in it?

    • No... While the Windows update does include some back-end stuff that allows other applications to read HEIC/HEIF files, it looks like the applications will need to be updated in most cases. (It's probably trivial for many, just adding a few lines that are like, "if the file extension is HEIF, open this file using WIC" — but you can bet that Adobe won't be updating older Photoshop versions for this...)
  • I couldn't stand that piece of shit. I found out how to re-enable the old Photo Viewer program and made it default. I don't do photo editing or anything advanced, but the app was garbage.

  • Posting to undo a click-o.

  • This can't be slashdot - TFS is way too well written

Think of it! With VLSI we can pack 100 ENIACs in 1 sq. cm.!

Working...