US To Seek Social Media Details From All Visa Applicants (bloomberg.com) 287
According to Bloomberg, the State Department wants to require all U.S. visa applicants to submit their social media usernames, previous email addresses and phone numbers. From the report: In documents to be published in Friday's Federal Register, the department said it wants the public to comment on the proposed new requirements, which will affect nearly 15 million foreigners who apply for visas to enter the U.S. each year. The new rules would apply to virtually all applicants for immigrant and non-immigrant visas. The department estimates it would affect 710,000 immigrant visa applicants and 14 million non-immigrant visa applicants, including those who want to come to the U.S. for business or education, according to the documents. If the requirements are approved by the Office of Management and Budget, applications for all visa types would list a number of social media platforms and require the applicant to provide any account names they may have had on them over the previous five years. It would also give the applicant the option to volunteer information about social media accounts on platforms not listed in the application. In addition to their social media histories, visa applicants will be asked for five years of previously used telephone numbers, email addresses, international travel and deportation status, as well as whether any family members have been involved in terrorist activities. Only applicants for certain diplomatic and official visa types may be exempted from the requirements, the documents said.
Enough is enough (Score:5, Insightful)
Guess I won't be travelling to the US anymore.
Re:Enough is enough (Score:5, Interesting)
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Guess I won't be travelling to the US anymore.
I'm sure the millions of huddled masses behind you demanding to get in will thank you for getting out of the way ...
We're so terrible that (approximately) everybody wants to come here. I don't care what your beliefs are on this topic; that's just plain funny, and always will be :)
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America is not the only destination in the world. Sure we grind our teeth and visit for business but it is not a compelling place to visit for other reasons these days. The world at one time was begining to look like a global village, it seems to be breaking up again as differences rather than commonalities become highlighted. The times they are a changing indeed.
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Re:Enough is enough (Score:4, Informative)
the food is good though.
it's not a bad place to visit. just don't go outside in underwear to be shot and all that.
anyways, who do you think they'll catch with this? you think
someone will put on a twitter they're tweeting ISIS threats from?
or a phone number they've been sending bomb threats? besides the phone numbers in lot of countries get reused often. it's more likely they will have false positives than actual positives - well that and retards terrorists who are seriously retarded anyways.
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America is not the only destination in the world. Sure we grind our teeth and visit for business but it is not a compelling place to visit for other reasons these days. The world at one time was begining to look like a global village, it seems to be breaking up again as differences rather than commonalities become highlighted. The times they are a changing indeed.
Sure, divert your vacation destination to places like Yemen, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Uzbekistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Pakistan... B'cos there is no harm in people from those countries landing up anywhere, as they've proved in Europe and even here in America
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Your email address and Twitter handle are private?
Did you shake with rage when you had to give out your name and birth date to apply for a passport?
Re:Enough is enough (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes,
my twitter handle, my youtube handle, my facebook name, my slashdot name are private.
No idea why you think otherwise and what it is the business of an visa application to know them.
What is next? A special page in everyones passport where he has to register all social media accounts? ...
Is slashdot a social media? After all I have friends and fans here
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Your Facebook name isn’t your real name?
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I had two FB accounts, one my real name, but there are dozens of people with the same name, and one with my pen name, which I only use to log on sites that require an FB account to log in.
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Hmm....I've never run into a site that required FB to log in???
I mean, of course I assume to log into FB you need a FB account, but never ran into a 3rd party site that required you to have a FB account to log into it......???
Can you give examples?
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Before they get into the USA.
What a person supported in the past and what they will do when in the USA.
What politics and political groups a person supported and funded.
Part of that is a persons online support and funding for groups the US is interested in.
Re:Enough is enough (Score:4, Insightful)
So easy answer. Social media accounts, don't remember having any, what's the penalty, wont let me in OK, done. Previous email addresses, oh yeah, er, fuck off, how the fuck would I know all the possible ones buried in all the possible web mail services, past companies email servers, past ISPs et al. Want an email, here have this one, I formally communicate with it, I don't remember having any others the user name and or the passwords. Phone numbers, here is the phone number to contact me with regard to visa queries, all the others, what others? Not truthful, meh, to the best of my reflection it is.
The US could run afoul of other countries laws in the amount of information it is requiring, keeping in mind that request is being sent to that country under threat of penalty, that countries government has to accept it as reasonable otherwise travel and reciprocity problems will occur.
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I guess I have a few dozen foes :)
But I keep them close, hehe!
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Re: Enough is enough (Score:3)
Spelling mistakes do happen. So do reading mistakes. The Register had an article on the confusion caused by using "expertsexchange" as a username and a .dom web page. Could anyone remember every single randomly assigned email address used by universities.
Here's a memorable one:
https://mobile.twitter.com/meg... [twitter.com]
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Ah, the USA. Land of the bound and home of the scared.
Of course, there is no reason to fear planes flying into buildings or followers of a certain cult randomly killing people b'cos 'allah/Mohammed told them so' every year since 2001
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This has to do with world's demography. Countries that are rich enough to have tourists travelling to US overwhelmingly have a severe population decline.
You know "millenials"? That generation that is quite big in terms of demography is now entering the "has money to spend" bracket, and likes to spend its money of touchy-feely stuff like "experiences while travelling"? Most of developed world has barely any. They're a massive demographic hole outside US.
The key number here is 15 million per year (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:The key number here is 15 million per year (Score:5, Insightful)
That's 41,000 per day, every day. No one is even going to follow up to see if the first alias listed even exists, let alone have time to verify its authenticity.
That's 41,000 per day now. If that requirement hits, it may be thousands and thousands less.
Since there is no security benefit, I can only assume the goal is to prevent people from traveling to US so much. I am sure the tourist industry / travel industry would love that.
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That's 41,000 per day now. If that requirement hits, it may be thousands and thousands less. Since there is no security benefit, I can only assume the goal is to prevent people from traveling to US so much. I am sure the tourist industry / travel industry would love that.
Read between the lines. If you look here [state.gov], you'll see that only 7,432,515 B1/B2 (tourist and business) visas were issued. That's a little over 20k per day. A large percentage of these will be business visitors.
The total number of arrivals for 2017 is 54,973,043 [trade.gov]. That's a little over 150k per day. So your visa-based tourists and business travelers together make up ~13% of yearly travelers to the U.S.
Remember that a lot of countries are exempt from the visa requirements through the Visa Waiver Program.
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I'm sure those 60% transfer travelers whom switched airplanes or simply fueled up on some U.S. international airport should be considered way better than paying tourists.
Transit visa are the C category, not B1/B2.
Re:The key number here is 15 million per year (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not security-anything. The purpose is to humiliate all applicants. You don't need to follow up on them.
You can occasionally randomly follow up on what some people didn't include, look for them on whatever website they say they're not on, find them if they lied poorly, and then reject their application. That seems like a pretty great way to make people unhappier, though I'm not saying it's the only viable way to approach it so they shouldn't specify this in the new regs.
Why do you think you take your shoes off at TSA checkpoints? It's to make you acknowledge that you're their bitch, that's why. They don't just want to humiliate you, and you unflinchingly take it; you have to participate in it. I think this social media thing is a reasonable extension of this.
The big question is: why is this limited to Visa applicants? Shouldn't they be doing this to citizens too? Maybe the Visa aspect is just a trial run.
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Write to Richard Reid and ask him.
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No you idiot, not depressurisation. Catastrophic loss of hull integrity. Look up why windows in modern airliners are rounded, and how early de Havilland Comets that didn't have them had a tendency to end up.
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Unless of course, it actually managed to hit the structural weak points as happened in examples I cited, and not just get super lucky as it did in that case.
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Today you also learned that explosions are really hard to defend against in civilian aviation with methods designed to alleviate known stresses.
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It is sad how Americans have become a bunch of pussies / wussies.
The America I remember wouldn't put up with this bullshit of Theater Security Assholes (TSA).
Re:The key number here is 15 million per year (Score:5, Funny)
I guarantee you, when they make me take off my shoes transiting a US airport after twelve hours of flying, it's not me who's suffering.
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Re:The key number here is 15 million per year (Score:5, Insightful)
They’ll only investigate the ones from Yemen and Libya. They have to ask for everyone's because otherwise some ridiculous Federal judges will tell them they can't look into applications from Yemen and Libya.
Just following the lead from other countries (Score:2, Flamebait)
The UK already bans people from entering based on social media accounts.
Canada googles citizenship applicants and questions people based on it [canadavisa.com].
So frankly I see nothing new in what the U.S. is doing.
So many people here on Slashdot seem to want more government. This is more government - congrats, you go what you asked for.
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Pretty big difference between a Visa application and a Citizenship application.
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Although there's not much difference between a visa application and a mastercard application, eh?
Tourists? (Score:2)
We've set a few records there - 75 million tourists in 2014, according to this:
https://share.america.gov/75-m... [america.gov]
I guess we don't need any more.
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Well, ... I thought so, too, a few years ago, as I have many friends there and my ex GF lives there now.
many people are on the trip "lets visit america while we still can"
But: under the current circumstances no way. As long as I have the risk of getting killed by a random shooting *or* get put in jail and have to make a deal and pled guilty for a thing I never did: no way I go in that fucked up country.
Re: Tourists? (Score:2)
But: under the current circumstances no way. As long as I have the risk of getting killed by a random shooting *or* get put in jail and have to make a deal and pled guilty for a thing I never did: no way I go in that fucked up country.
Totally. I, like you, also have a poor understanding of relative risk, which is why I'll never travel to fucked up countries like England and France. Don't want to get run over by an islamist in a truck, or blown up outside a concert. And you can totally forget Russia or China; I've seen their dashcam videos!
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You can look up the stats if you want to get a nice quantitative measurement of risk. You're somewhere in the neighbourhood of ten times safer from violent death if you visit wester Europe instead of the US. The incarceration rate in the US is around 5 to 10 times higher than most western European countries (or other notable destinations such as Saudi Arabia, Kazakhstan or China). I couldn't find stats on the relative rate of incarceration of foreigners.
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You're somewhere in the neighbourhood of ten times safer from violent death if you're in almost any part of the US than if you're in the wrong part of Paris on a Friday evening.
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Re: Tourists? (Score:2)
I couldn't find stats on the relative rate of incarceration of foreigners.
Bingo. Bet you didn't find any stats on the murder rate of visitors, either.
As a white dude my odds of being murdered in the US are about the same as of being murdered in Luxemburg. I don't hear too many dipshits whining about how Luxemburg is too dangerous to visit. That rate, by the way, is only about twice as high as England, which certainly isn't something any rational person would seriously worry about.
Of course, given that the majority of homicides happen between acquaintances, and that a large chu
Re:Tourists don't need Visa's (Score:4, Informative)
You don't need a Visa for vacation, you need a passport from your country of residence. Visa's are required for school or working in the US.
Correct, as long as your country of citizenship (not residence) is in the visa-waiver program. [state.gov] Otherwise you need a visa to visit the USA.
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Guess what the thing they stamp in your passport is for.
Not true... (Score:2)
Residents of countries - like the UK - that participate in the visa-waiver programme don't need a visa.
Everyone else does.
Hilariously hypocritical (Score:3)
We're going to force people to turn over their information simply to see if they said anything wrong while our so-called president hides what's on his tax returns.
Who do you think can do more damage?
Does that mean ICQ? (Score:3)
I think I might be able to dig up my ICQ account number.
But what about all of those through away emails that I created on hotmail, let alone all of the ISPs that I have had email through?
I like Americans... (Score:5, Interesting)
...I always have, and I always will.
But I don't have to like their government, and most of the Americans I know, don't like them very much either, but it's theirs - and right now, all they got, they got to deal with it.
Sadly, because of the draconian laws and orwellian rules bestowed on travelers and tourists to the U.S. I won't be spending my tourist money there either, and that's sad - because I spend a lot. Just the last vacation, I spent roughly 4000$ in just one month, Four thousand dollars may not sound like a lot, but it's still money to some, the year before that I spent nearly 6000$ there.
I still WANT to go, because I love to meet my American friends in person, and they have roots in our countries too (as you may know, most of America consists of immigrants), and a lot of them stem from Scandinavia. But I'm a stickler for freedom - and I believe strongly in my rights, and no way - no how - will anyone force me to give up my entire history, no matter what excuse they hide under.
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> Sadly, because of the draconian laws and orwellian rules bestowed on travelers and tourists to the U.S.
Uh...right. Now I know you're an ignorant blowhard who doesn't read much of what you sign. This doesn't apply to tourists. Idiot.
I have to correct you there.
If you intend to stay more than 3 months during one year, you have to apply for a tourist visa - and then you are an visa applicant.
The ESTA is only valid for 3 months per year, and is valid over a 2 year period, for those who are eligible for the ESTA visa waiver program.
That's why I use American Express (Score:2)
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That expression is ironic, considering outside of the USA, it is not anywhere nearly as accepted as Visa and MC.
hm? (Score:3)
Re:hm? (Score:4, Insightful)
What's the value of a worthless request like this? If someone simply says they have no such account, how is the government going to refute him/her?
Well, suppose you say you have no such account. Then you show up at the border and they decide to search your phone. Then you're screwed.
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If I ever came to the US, most likely I left my phone at home and buy a simple one there ...
Re:hm? (Score:5, Insightful)
If someone simply says they have no such account, how is the government going to refute him/her?
Given the number of border crossings, it is unlikely anyone is going to look at the data when you enter. It may be cross-referenced to existing databases of suspected terrorist identities online, maybe.
However, this will become of interest if you are involved in any trouble here, since a failure to report information will make your entry a clear violation of 8 USC 1325 [cornell.edu] and thus increase the likelyhood you will be prosecuted for criminal offenses related to illegal entry.
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"clear violation"? Isn't it a bit thick to expect tourists to have heard about it?
I have no doubt that every visa application has a warning that lying about data on the form is a violation of US federal law, probably giving explicit references to some of them. So, no, I don't think it is "thick" to expect people filling out a US visa form to have read it.
"prosecuted for offenses"? Holy fuck - deporting is not enough?
If you violate the law, you can be prosecuted. I don't know about how you do it on your planet, but on planet Earth this is normal. Also, if you have a conviction for immigration violations it is much less likely you will be allowed re-e
The era of easy international travel is over (Score:4, Interesting)
Being able to travel all over the world w/o substantial scrutiny or barriers is a relatively modern event, and was perhaps simply a temporary anomaly resulting from a brief period where long distance travel was easier than getting detailed information about travelers across borders.
In any case, this isn't a USA specific issue.
As an American with conservative political beliefs, I would not feel safe traveling to the UK or Europe. The UK just imprisoned a US Traveler for 3 days just because they didn't like his/her political beliefs. Europe is worse, who knows what laws I might break by speaking my mind?
No country is perfect, and now that countries are engaged in the modern fad of encouraging only politically correct speech - all of them are taking advantage of the influx of information about travelers.
Re:The era of easy international travel is over (Score:4, Insightful)
The UK just imprisoned a US Traveler for 3 days just because they didn't like his/her political beliefs. Europe is worse, who knows what laws I might break by speaking my mind? ...
You are an idiot
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The UK just imprisoned a US Traveler for 3 days just because they didn't like his/her political beliefs. Europe is worse, who knows what laws I might break by speaking my mind?
You are an idiot ...
For saying something true?
Nice way to prove his point.
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It is not true that you can not speak your mind in europe.
It is not true that you can get put into prison in the UK because of political believes.
So: the GP is an idiot.
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The UK just imprisoned a US Traveler for 3 days just because they didn't like his/her political beliefs. Europe is worse, who knows what laws I might break by speaking my mind?
[citation needed]
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Here [wikipedia.org]. Just choose the one you prefer.
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It was fun, but this is why we can't have nice things.
I thought you were referring to Facebook. What "nice things" are you actually talking about?
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Collateral damage (Score:2)
> the State Department wants to require all U.S. visa applicants to submit their social media usernames, previous email addresses and phone numbers
the State Department wants to promote people not visiting the U.S., to spend their business, tourism, education, etc money elsewhere and to collaborate and innovate without us.
FTFY
Cook the books (Score:2)
Here's my public comment (Score:4, Funny)
This is fucking stupid. For any number of reasons, but the main one is that there are countries which will reciprocally put the same requirement on US citizens visiting them. And then if I go to one of those countries, I'll have to admit that I have a Google Plus account. Embarrassing.
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And what if everything you posted is set to private? This appears to be an admission that they can read everything on Facebook at will, public or otherwise.
Re:If it doesn't exist? (Score:2)
What if they aren't on any social media? I'm a naturalized US citizen and not on any.
Exactly. Why do governments assume that people can't live without a social media account just like they can't live without a vital body part (like a heart).
Also, why is the US government taking applications for credit cards?
Re:A better idea: (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps because some of them come here as tourists and spend money.
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Don't worry, there are plenty of other countries where they can spend their money.
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Uh, rest of the world do have rights... in the rest of the world! Right now, you have Leftist activists campaigning to give voting rights to non citizens, which no country in the world allows! Yet in CA, illegal immigrants (I refuse to use the euphemism 'undocumented' since they brazenly broke the laws while coming here) have more rights and protections than both citizens and legal immigrants.
GP can go tour countries like Pakistan or Yemen and admire how wonderful they are, that it's an outrage that any
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You know that it is required to have a B-2 Visa (Tourism and Visit) to enter the US as a tourist, right? Now, don't you feel stupid? Or do you intend for all foreign tourists to be replaced by domestic tourists, since we all come and "steal your jobs"? I guess that the tourist industry don't want customers over there. Well, with the people like you around and laws like these, I sure have crossed off the US from my list of countries to visit (again).
Look at the statistics of your own State Department (PDF) [state.gov] a
Not always... (Score:5, Interesting)
At least, that was the case the last time I travelled there. If this new nonsense gets enacted, then that will have been the last time...
Of course, this will serve no useful purpose - anyone trying to get in with malicious intent will have prepared an innocuous set of social media content, but anyone sensible who eschews FB and their ilk will get pulled out of line for some special questioning...
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Canadians are granted a B-1/B-2 visa at the border (depending on business vs. pleasure); they just don't have to apply in advance.
Source: being a Canadian who has travelled to the US a great deal.
Re: A better idea: (Score:2)
Canadians are granted a B-1/B-2 visa at the border (depending on business vs. pleasure); they just don't have to apply in advance.
Source: being a Canadian who has travelled to the US a great deal.
You're going to need a better source than that; I also have travelled to the US a great deal and, AFAIK, the only time I've had any kind of visa is when I've had to stay there for a few months. Every other time I've just chatted with the border agent for a minute and then driven through.
Re: A better idea: (Score:3, Informative)
You may want to look up the meaning of the word "generally".
Or you could try scrolling further down on the page you linked, to where it says:
"Citizens of Canada and Bermuda do not require visas to enter the United States, for visit, tourism and temporary business travel purposes"
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You may want to look up the meaning of the word "generally".
Or you could try scrolling further down on the page you linked, to where it says:
"Citizens of Canada and Bermuda do not require visas to enter the United States, for visit, tourism and temporary business travel purposes"
You may think and it feels like you don't require a visa, but trust me as a Canadian who travels somewhat frequently to the US, you *do* get a rubber-stamp temporary visa.
You might think you didn't get it or need it.
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You have to have a visa to be a tourist in the US? That's news to the 15+ million Canadians that drive into the US each year.
Canada is the worst example one can use when talking of immigration, since Canada has a pretty special status in the US as a comparable neighbor. Use countries like Belgium or Honduras or Turkey as a better example
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How about we just stop accepting visa applicants entirely?
Well, that's one way to increase unemployment. For instance, the professors who offer classes to foreign students won't have them anymore. And of course the follow-on jobs. Even if you discard the student visas, there are still American citizens employed supporting foreign workers. From people pouring them coffee to people selling them clothes to people renting them apartments... gone.
Unless unemployment is 0% , there are Americans willing to do the jobs.
Wait, what? It works the other way around. As long as unemployment isn't 0%, there are clearly Americans unwilling to
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USA 1945 != USA 2018
Class issues. (Score:3, Insightful)
If you are the type of person who would type something like this, you already are an embarrassment to your country, your family, and humanity in general.
While I don't agree with the "twitter length" post by the AC before you, your response is precisely what makes America "the land of the under achiever".
My European family was sent to the gas chambers while my American family could not sign up to fight. An unfortunate side effect of being short, fat, and Jewish. Afterwards,
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Problem solved, once and for all.
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Many of them are one-shot-throw-aways that I use to fill in online complaint forms. ... If this becomes a standard worldwide, I'll be forced to stay at home.
If you weren't such a whiner, you'd be welcome more places.
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If you're so old in Internet years, surely you remember the Google Real Names Policy?
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Who needs Mailinator?
"I run my own domain and email server--how many email addresses do you need?"