Tesla Opens Orders To All US and Canadian Model 3 Reservation Holders (arstechnica.com) 164
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: For people who put down a $1,000 deposit for a Tesla Model 3 as long as two years ago, the big day has arrived. Specifically, the day has arrived when they can give Tesla another $2,500 and then wait a few more months for their car to arrive. Days before the end of the second quarter, Tesla is now allowing all reservation holders in the United States and Canada to place orders for the Model 3. Customers will be able to choose between several variants of the Model 3 -- including the high-end "performance" model -- as well as choosing colors and option packages. However, the low-end version of the Model 3 with its long-promised $35,000 price tag isn't available to order yet.
Each customer will get a specific delivery estimate based on the model they choose and their position on the waiting list. A typical delivery window is two to four months. While the original $1,000 Model 3 deposit was fully refundable, customers who pay the extra $2,500 will be locked in three days after placing an order, the company told CNBC. That isn't a new requirement -- a Tesla spokeswoman told Ars that the company has long asked customers to pay a $2,500 deposit when they order other Tesla models.
Each customer will get a specific delivery estimate based on the model they choose and their position on the waiting list. A typical delivery window is two to four months. While the original $1,000 Model 3 deposit was fully refundable, customers who pay the extra $2,500 will be locked in three days after placing an order, the company told CNBC. That isn't a new requirement -- a Tesla spokeswoman told Ars that the company has long asked customers to pay a $2,500 deposit when they order other Tesla models.
I want one... (Score:2)
The lowest cost option of the ones being made so far is $50K. That makes it a luxury car, not a car for the people.
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How about "bait and switch"?
It would not be surprising to me if Tesla never produce the $35k version of the model 3. It may be that, because of all the extra costs they have incurred getting their assembly line capacity to where they need it to be, that the base Model 3 cannot be made for $35k per car. Then, if Tesla can keep the production line running with orders for the more expensive models, why would they make cars at a loss?
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That depends on operational and maintenance costs, as well as longevity. That is, unless you consider anything other than a cheap upfront cost shitbox with a short lifetime which provides job security for the dealer mechanic to be the definition of less-than-luxury.
I'm not claiming which side of the scale Teslas fall on, just pointing out that the economics are much more than initial cost.
Re:I want one... (Score:4, Insightful)
Modern new cars need minimum mechanical intervention over first few years of their lives. It increases as they age, but used cars cost far less regardless.
50k-ish USD is going to buy several decades of mechanical interventions for a decent used car, which will only set you back a few thousand. And Tesla, while cheaper to maintain, is by no means free over its life cycle.
So yes, all current Teslas are luxury vehicles by definition.
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No, luxury vehicle is a vehicle that cost far more than a budget vehicle, and as such is not a justifiable cost. You must have never lived middle class or working class life to read my statement the way you did.
Granted, your lack of empathy on this issue is not surprising. I've seen this problem for people who spent their lives living comfortably. They make rather silly assumptions about reality for overwhelming majority of population.
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Thank you for conceding your point with such grace and eloquence.
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Electric engine and drive train have much less moving parts and much less complexity than ICE on principle.
He has been proven wrong. We're done here.
Re: I want one... (Score:1)
Unfortunately, actual Tesla ownership comes with a startling number of annoying little faults, like screen failure, door failure, indicator failure...
The difference between theory and practice? In theory, there is no difference...
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Certainly. So do other vehicles. On the other hand, the most expensive maintenance is typically that of engine and drive train systems, as those are commonly some of the most work intensive and complex operations, unlike say troubleshooting a problem with a door, which is a fairly simple mechanical device.
Buying full electric engine over ICE massively reduces complexity of both engine and the drive train. As a result, it massively reduces maintenance costs on those systems. Which is why it is indeed correct
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Any car that costs $50,000 upfront is very costly by comparison.
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Couldn't even manage to get to the second paragraph of the summary?
You bears are getting desperate.
Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... (Score:1, Interesting)
For the record, a lot of us are sick of the presumtion that because we find the operation Tesla is operating to be a scam, that it means we're speculating in the market.
Sure, some of you are dumb enough to invest in Tesla in some sort of hopeful virtue-signaling gesture. Some are even dumber to be 'shorting' Tesla.
The rest of us, the majority, just think the whole venture is a little pathetic.
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lol, sure thing sparky... obvious short troll is telling us that they are NOT a short troll...
I would imagine that 'the majority' really don't give a rat's ass one way or the other, while shorts would be the ONLY ones with a reason to constantly fling poo. C'mon how about you enlighten me?
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Pathetic; not worth flinging poo at.
Aw, you'll never get it. Never mind.
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How exactly are you expecting him to prove that he hasn't shorted Tesla stock?
Perhaps you could provide some evidence that he has? Just that he's not the one slinging around accusations here.
I too have no shorted Tesla stock, despite feeling they're overpriced. I'm also sure as fuck not handing over $2500 for a car that I'd have no confidence of ever receiviung.
Luckily my financial acumen greatly exceeds my ability to type the word receivinng.
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Well, in this thread alone, Bing and probably Cedric believe Tesla is a scam. And you can add me to that list, too... Considering they lose money on each car they make, and that is BEFORE they include R&D or capital expenses, I don't see how they're going to ever turn a profit. It's like the old dot-bomb days, when it was OK to lose money on sale because somehow you'd make it up with volume.
What Tesla HAS done is suck up a lot of VC and investor capital, and make it harder for other companies to rais
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Check Tesla's financials [yahoo.com]. They lose money before you include R&D or capital expenditures - startup costs. Basically, the cost of the product (cost of revenue) and the administration/sales support for that product (SG&A) already put them negative.
Last quarter they had $3.4B in revenue, and the cost of that revenue was $2.95B, leaving them with $450MM in gross profit. SG&A was $686MM - meaning that just the cost of the product and the sales/administrative overhead to sell that vehicle results
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GM/Chrysler bail out - Final tally: Taxpayers auto bailout loss $9.3B - "The government said it recovered $70.42 billion of the $79.68 billion it gave to General Motors, Chrysler, Ally Financial, Chrysler Financial and automotive suppliers through the federal Auto Industry Financing Program. The program was part of the larger Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP." https://eu.usatoday.com/story/... [usatoday.com]
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> In the case of all existing car manufacturers, the real reason is sunk
> costs in internal combustion engine manufacturing. Tesla doesn't
> have to worry about abandoning billions of dollars in existing property
> plant and equipment like the legacy manufacturers do.
Wrong...
1) Many manufacturers produce hybrids. That's already half-way there to pure-electric.
2) Manufacturers can produce disel and gasoline engines simultaneously, so it's not that difficult. And they are *SIGNIFICANTLY* different a
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To be perfectly honest, if you go out and google for news on Tesla, the people who are trashing it are in serious short positions.
To be perfectly honest, if you went out in the street polling random people about Tesla, the majority of them probably don't care about Tesla. The vapor is apparent to a lot of the public.
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So, you couldn't manage to get to the second paragraph of the summary either?
maybe buy tesla stock instead? (Score:1)
for every $1,000 of stock bought eight years ago, you'd have $14,000 today
Re: maybe buy tesla stock instead? (Score:2)
why do you claim that? (Score:2)
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AND if we are lucky, Musk will NOT introduce MY until 1-2 new GFs are set up and new lines are set up for MY. IOW, he real
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Car Pact & NAFTA (Score:2)
Assuming that the US/Canadian tariff fight doesn't screw all this up.
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American Assembled.
Parts for the vehicle are manufactured everywhere.
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Canada isn't trying to harm the USA with its new tariffs... they are entirely reciprocal, and measured out dollar for dollar. They will be lifted when the USA lifts its illegal tariffs. If the USA wants Canada to remove its dairy tariff, then perhaps Trump should offer something as well. But instead, Trump decides to impose punative tariffs to effectively intimidate a country whose economy is about a tenth of the size into capitulating.
And it's not like the USA was ever getting burned by its trade wi
Re:Car Pact & NAFTA (Score:4, Interesting)
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Additionally, the US subsidies/incentives given to American dairy farmers are larger than the entire dairy industry of Canada. You produce more dairy in Wisconsin than our entire country produces.
In this case, your agricultural incentives are backwards. Instead of managing supply, you pay farmers to overproduce.
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...American farmers are paid for by American tax dollars whether you consume dairy products or not.
This is why we have a 1.39 billion pound cheese surplus [vox.com].
I can't wait! (Score:2, Insightful)
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Re: I can't wait! (Score:2)
...in a tent
They're not fabbing semiconductors, shortstuff... and anyway, I can assure you that your $80K Model3 will likely spank an RS6 or an M5 but hell, I don't need to tell you that; anyone can tell that you're quite the car enthusiast.
Getting mine Monday! (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, now that they are opening orders to everyone. . . you probably want to closely look into the probability of getting your car in time to take advantage of the full tax credit. . .
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The thing is, there are estimates that the difference in moving parts are 20 vs 10,000 [tesla.com]!!! Perhaps once EVs take over, all cars will be assembled in tents?
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That doesn't take away from the fact that a lack of climate and environment control can have serious ramifications on the car manufacturing process.
These "tents" don't have a lack of climate control (in a building, climate and environment are the same thing, in this context.)
In arizona, the environment can be killer on the paint job especially when dust storms roll around. I wouldn't want that in my car.
That's why they're doing it inside, and not outside. There's nothing special or magical about the door seals on a rigid building that makes them keep dust out better; flexible buildings tend to be rigid around the doorways anyway.
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Re:Getting mine Monday! (Score:5, Interesting)
Going to post this as AC because I'm sure the haters will be out in full force. I got mine a few weeks ago and it was better than I expected. For context, I have a 2016 Porsche 981 GTS (everybody please put down your pitchforks) so my standards are set pretty high. The model 3 is totally worth the wait and is definitely worth the money. I am pretty sure that the Model 3 can trash the 981 at just about any metric and in fact a slightly modified Model 3 just ate a 981 race-ready Boxster at a time track event and won the event overall [teslarati.com]. It is 2/3 the price of the Porsche fully-loaded too!
It is a totally unassuming car but it is brilliantly designed. So much so that I'm considering getting rid of the Porsche as there is just no reason to own it. It feels like a dinosaur when I get in it now.
The parking garage at my condo has free regular 110v plugs, and they don't mind us charging cars with them, so to date I have paid absolutely nothing for "fuel". At 110v it would take two and a half days to charge it from empty (it charges at a rate of about 7km/hr at 110v and the 80% range is about 450km), but I just plug it in when I get home and it is ready for me the next time I want to use it. On average I just don't drive more than 7km/hr/day so it works out. Of course there are many other charging options a lot of them free (my local airport parking has free EV charging and you can leave your car there and plugged in the entire time you are away). The parking garages in this area also have free EV charging.
The seats are great. The interior is really nice - the glass roof is beautiful! I love the minimalist dash. I would give the touchscreen controls a 7/10. They could do a lot to improve that and they are slowly making some positive changes to it. Very usable though. The handling is adjustable and I find it very responsive. It is a fun car to drive. I have found no fit and finish problems despite the reports - the body panels all line up and the tolerances are great and the inside trim is quiet. No squeaks or rattles. The car is so quiet that you do notice tire noise when you are driving.
I wrote to Tesla asking them when the whole LTE music streaming and free map updates and live traffic was going to end and they were going to start charging me, and they said "Never. Enjoy!" Turns out that this offer expires for people who get their cars after July 1st. Most of it will still be free, but they will offer a premium level after some period of time that you will have to pay for that will give you music streaming and traffic. Updates will be done over wifi unless they are a safety issue in which case they will eat the cost of the LTE update.
I'm rambling probably. Enjoy your car in good health! It really feels like it is the next generation of the automobile.
Re: Getting mine Monday! (Score:1)
They will start charging you after the bankruptcy
Re:Getting mine Monday! (Score:4, Informative)
If you had actually been paying attention to me you'd know I live in Europe, and the Eurospec Model 3s aren't yet available, so how would that be me?
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I know lots of USians might not like to admit it, but there is at least one North American country that uses metric measurements. It's also known that Tesla is delivering Model 3s there: Canada.
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Everything about this post is perfectly accurate. Amazing how gloriously descriptive you were in such a short sentence.
Not sarcasm, this was a dense, informative, funny post in a single line.
Re:Getting mine Monday! (Score:5, Insightful)
I do not think I will ever be able to get near a car dealership again after experiencing how buying a car should be. . .
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Or maybe not feeling like a middleman is trying to milk every penny they can out of you.
You go to the website, choose the model you want (the S and X have been available for a while, the 3 is still working through the deposit holders), pick your color, interior, wheels, option packages, and the price is right there.
Order, and there you go, that's what you pay. Why we're still paying dealers to make the process actively uncomfortable, I have no idea. Even taking my wife's old Fit in for an ECU update, they s
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Going to post this as AC because I'm sure the haters will be out in full force.
It's worth noting that there are a few haters here on Slashdot, but the people who actually like the car and have modpoints far outnumber the haters. Don't be afraid to be proud of your car.
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The tax credit is non-refundable. It is unlikely people waiting for the budget model have a large enough tax bill to get the full credit anyway. Even then, with no promise on delivery day they may not get it anyway.
And the idea that the value of the used vehicle will go up by the full value of the credit is laughably optimistic.
Humbug... (Score:2, Interesting)
For people who put down a $1,000 deposit for a Tesla Model 3 as long as two years ago, the big day has arrived.
Not to dump on Tesla's, they are nice cars, but waiting two years for a car? You have to be a major fanboy to do that ... and people around here call Apple users all kinds of ugly names for queueing in front of a shop for a mobile phone 24hrs before release day.
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You can get a Bolt right now for a bit more than $35k. And you still get the tax credit. And a fully loaded Bolt can be used with comma.ai, the open source autopilot. I don't get why anybody is willing to wait that long.
Re:Humbug... (Score:4, Informative)
It's also an econobox that can't supercharge.
People want a car, not a hair shirt. Don't get me wrong, Bolt is fine for a subset of users. But don't pretend that it's a replacement for the Model 3.
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Chevy Bolt: the long-range EV for people who don't want to do long drives.
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"Econobox" I can drive today, or a 6+ month wait for a car I can drive later... Hmmm, decisions decisions!
False dichotomies, you mean. Lease the econobox today, while waiting for the real car.
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It's false to even claim the Model 3 base vehicle is better than the Bolt - given there are exactly zero base Model 3's available.
No. No it isn't. Those are separate issues.
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So - can you buy that base Model 3 today? If not - you're simply talking about an imaginary vehicle versus a tangible vehicle.
Tangible doesn't mean "available for sale". Try again, I guess, though since you're trying to make a fallacious point you could save us all some trouble by just STFUing.
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No, tangible was right. Can you even touch a base Model 3, let alone buy one? If not - it's a fantasy, something that doesn't exist. Which it doesn't.
It's a fantasy which will become reality before the fantasy of you being realistic.
Re: Humbug... (Score:1)
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"Hair shirt" is a common saying, getting 1 1/2 million hits on Google. It dates back to the use by early Christians of uncomfortable shirts made from human or animal hair as a penance. In modern parliance, it means punishing yourself by accepting discomfort or inconvenience in order to achieve some end.
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At least you aren't in a RHD country. I'd estimate 2021 before you can even order one.
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I know that some people have waited two years, but that was because they were not building them yet. I placed my order last August and picked it up earlier this month. Yes, a 10-month wait isn't great either but there was a lot of pent-up demand. I waited 5 months for my Porsche and they had been building that model for 4 years before I ordered it.
If you ordered a Model 3 today I don't think you would wait more than six months for it. Still not the instant gratification we are all used to, but when you
Did Ars misunderstand? (Score:3)
Model 3 buyers have always (*) been required to pay a $2,500 deposit when ordering. "other" isn't appropriate here. Is that a mistake by the Tesla spokesperson or by Ars?
* It's possible that there were special rules for "family and friends (and employees)" who ordered very early Model 3s.
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Sorry, you must be off.. it was $1000 (10000 NOK here) and I decided waiting years for a promised car was insane and cancelled. And I did get 10000 NOK back, maybe they earned a few bucks on interest but it wasn't much.
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I just love it when I am "corrected" by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. Hint: I actually bought a Model 3, so I know this better than you.
Here's how it worked:
Reservation deposit: $1000.
Then, you get your invitation to configure and order a Model 3. To turn this configuration into an actual order, you have to put down an additional $2,500 deposit. Both the $1,000 and the $2,500 are credited against the purchase price of the car. Some time after ord
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Model 3 buyers have always (*) been required to pay a $2,500 deposit when ordering. "other" isn't appropriate here. Is that a mistake by the Tesla spokesperson or by Ars?
You assume those are two different people...
FUD (Score:2)
I've worked with over 100 different LED displays of various sizes and configurations over the last 10 years, and not a single one has had a backlight fail.
Also, [citation needed] for the battery pack FUD. There are many Tesla Model S vehicles on the road today, which have been on the road for over 5 years. Where are the stories about massively expensive battery replacements? It's not like every single Tesla story ever written doesn't get posted everywhere, so if this was happening, please link to it, or
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It's worse than that. When the backlight on the flatscreen goes out the car can't be driven. Backlights go out on panels all the time. In a few years the battery capacity will have diminished significantly and it will cost more to replace the battery than the car will be worth on the resale market.
1. Display panel backlights are almost certainly LED and will probably last longer than the batteries.
2. Those lithium cells in Tesla cars have been keeping charge capacity *significantly* longer than originally estimated.
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The difference with those is that most exotics can still be driven safely with its analog gauges when one of their digital panels goes out - at least to make it to the dealership. From what I've seen the Model 3 is completely dependent on that screen and cannot.
Or you use your phone as a GPS speedometer. What year is it? Display some adaptability.
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The thing with the Model 3 is that the touchscreen is the interface to the entire car. It would be like trying to use a smartphone with the screen out. Granted, it still has pedals and a steering wheel. I've never driven one so maybe you can turn it on and get it to go forward and reverse without the touchscreen. But given you need the touchscreen to do things like engage the wipers and turn on the defroster, if the screen goes out it's something that will need to be fixed.
I just want (Score:1)
a $10,000 plug-in electric truck with a winch, designed for the mountains, with a spare battery pack in the toolbox of the bed.
And you can buy them in Canada, so don't tell me they're not available.
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Hope you bought your Snickers in bulk, 'cuz you're gonna be in for a loooong wait.
You spelled Smarties wrong.
POS (Score:1)
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Uh.... (Score:1)
Does anyone else think that this seems like a desperate attempt to raise more cash with little indication of actual manufacturing rate and quality improvements?
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If anything, the Korean car makers might be interested. They've been trying and failing to establish a luxury brand for some time now - the Tesla brand would be perfect (Toyota already has Lexus). They also seem to be a bit late to the electric car game, so they could use the tech a lot more than Toyota needs it.