Despite Outrage From Users, Microsoft Continues To Install Bloatware Applications Onto Every Windows 10 PC (windowscentral.com) 490
Before Windows 10, a clean install of Windows only included the bare essentials a user would need to get started using their PC. With Windows 10, a clean install stays that way for about two minutes, because the second you hit the desktop, the Microsoft Store immediately starts trying to download third-party apps and games. Users have long complained about it, but it turns out Microsoft never put paid to it. Windows Central writes: And these apps keep trying to install themselves even after you cancel the downloads. There are six such apps, which is six too many. These apps are often random, but right now they include things like Candy Crush, Spotify, and Disney Magic Kingdoms. You should not see any of these apps on a fresh install of Windows 10, yet they are there every single time. There are policies you can set that disable these apps from automatically installing, but that's not the point. On a fresh, untouched, clean install of Windows 10, these apps will download themselves onto your PC. Even if you cancel the installation of these apps before they manage to complete the download, they will retry at a later date, without you even noticing. The only way I've found that gets rid of them permanently is to let them install initially, without canceling the download, and then uninstall the apps from the Start menu. If you cancel the initial download of the bloatware apps before they complete their first install, the Microsoft Store will just attempt to redownload them later and will keep doing so until that initial install is complete. This is not a good user experience, Microsoft.
What outrage? (Score:5, Insightful)
There's no real outrage - people still keep buying the accursed thing in massive numbers. If anyone was really outraged, they would get something else.
Re:What outrage? (Score:4, Insightful)
There is no practical alternative. But no, most people don't care, either.
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There have been several very practical alternatives for decades now. It's not that people can't migrate, it's that they simply don't. Is it ignorance? is it simple momentum? I'm not sure, but there is really no good reason for anyone to use Windows anymore in 2018.
I haven't owned a windows machine in 20 years, My wife (who is far from techie) hasn't owned one in 10. We haven't missed it in the slightest, and I haven't run in to anything that I couldn't do just as easily (or usually more easily) in Linux. An
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Re:What outrage? (Score:4, Insightful)
All of our business software is Windows-only. We're in retail. There are no usable Linux alternatives.
And that's why you use Windows at home?
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I haven't found a way to even get them to play in a VM.
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Re:What outrage? (Score:5, Insightful)
Most are annoyed by Windows antics, not "outraged". Compatibility and familiarity trumps the alternatives so far.
Macs are more expensive and don't run a lot of software titles, Google also pulls marketing shenanigans, Linux is unfamiliar and is hard to get help for unless you want to put up with impatient volunteers lacking people skills (I'm just the messenger).
Until the alternatives improve, people will put up with a degree of MS spamware and forced upgrades. In the land of C-, you can stay D+ for a long time.
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Re:What outrage? (Score:4, Insightful)
To add to this, if you want free support for MS products you get... none. If you want paid support for MS products, you pay through the nose, and the only solution is "have you rebooted? yes? ok, have you used the system restore cd?"
I have found linux support far better in that most times I can find actual answers on how to fix things, for free, and not the tired "reboot and system restore" that seems to be the bread and butter of "support" in the Windows world.
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No alternatives (Score:5, Insightful)
If anyone was really outraged, they would get something else.
That implies that there is something else for them to get. There really isn't. Microsoft was convicted in court of having a monopoly. Do you know what that word means? It means there aren't other options on the PC. The only other options are linux which perpetually lags Windows on the PC desktop in application options and the OS X which is both pricey and ties you to Apple. Both linux and OS X are fine options for some but as much as it irritates me to say it, Windows is the best offering available for a lot of people and companies. A lot of software people want is only available on Windows. If the people around you use Windows chances are high you will too. If you play games on your PC it's a virtual certainty are you are running Windows to do it.
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What alternative is there? Linux doesn't work for most people and it's pretty hard to buy a computer with it pre-installed and supported. Macs are expensive and MacOS has it's own issues.
They put up with this shit because there isn't an alternative.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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I like Chrome OS for what it is, basically a platform to run the Chrome browser on. But I couldn't use it for anything really serious, so I see it more like a mobile OS than a desktop/workstation.
Businesses are not going to move to Chrome OS for example.
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Linux would work for the vast majority of people if they'd only try it. It's only because MS shills such as yourself keep claiming otherwise that people don't try.
Linux these days is far easier to use than Windows, has better support, and runs almost everything that you can think of. Sure there are a small handful of niche applications that maybe 0.00001% of the population actually use that don't work, but that's hardly "most people"
There *IS* and alternative, people just have to quit being told it doesn't
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you'd have to be physically two blocks from their offices for your outrage to have any effect.
Huh? Since when do purchase decisions have to be made 2 blocks from a company's office?
You're not getting that before the internet existed they physically had to give you the entire software in order to get paid, you have no ability to influence their behavior via purchasing because they can always find a bunch of uninformed people to sustain themselves. The elite market participants can protect everyone else if there was some way to hold the company accountable (aka storming their offices). In reality since their customers are 100's of miles away, merely "not buying" from a company does
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People keep buying and using Windows, so they can't be that outraged
I get outraged at bad drivers all the time. I still drive my car. There are no alternatives that work for me.
solution? (Score:4, Insightful)
In any case, disrespectful behavior by Microsoft.
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Re:solution? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, put Win10 behind a firewall + proxy. Then only give the applications that need internet access the address/pw of the proxy and donot set the proxy of Windows itself. For Chrome you'll need FoxyProxy to set one without using the system settings.
You may also need software like Proxifier to have other application go through your proxy.
Net effect: Nothing has internet unless you allow it, resulting in a much more relaxing experience (apps donot download updates, and generally just donot do stuff behind your back without your knowledge). Windows cannot updates its tiles, nor download software, nor update itself. It's quite peaceful.
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What you are advocating is apathy. It always solves the problems.
How much does Windows 10 Enterprise cost? (Score:4, Informative)
Nonsense, either get an Enterprise license
How many PCs does a company need before it qualifies to buy Windows 10 Enterprise licenses? And how much does it cost per seat? In my experience, "Request a Quote" as stated in Microsoft's comparison page [microsoft.com] means "if you have to ask, you can't afford it." The "Learn More & Try" link ultimately links to an ROI calculator [valuestoryapp.com], but I could not try the ROI calculator because it was blurred out by a modal dialog that requires the user to submit personal and company information and authorize a Microsoft salesperson to contact the user.
or just uninstall the apps
Just uninstalling the apps doesn't undo the fact that having downloaded them in the first place counts against the monthly data transfer allowance that your ISP imposes.
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It's funny to me that on a site like Slashdot, we can have a confluence of the raging "I hate Windows", the blind recommendations of "everyone should switch to Linux" and at the same time admit that we are subject to ISP's where a 100 MB download is something we need to be concerned about.
If technology is your true obsession in traditional Slashdot sense, then you could really care less about people running Windows because it's not you. You're already running Linux and think the rest of the world should jus
Fiber in some places costs 6 figures (Score:3)
If technology is your true obsession in traditional Slashdot sense
Many people for whom technology is their true obsession have friends or relatives for whom technology is not their true obsession.
then you could really care less about people running Windows because it's not you.
I regularly use Xubuntu but must support friends and relatives using Windows. Some use Windows because all applications or peripherals in a particular category are incompatible with X11/Linux.
You're already running Linux and think the rest of the world should just give up, and you're paying for gigabit fiber because #fiber.
If fiber costs 6 figures where you live,[1][2][3] you're probably not going to get fiber even if you are technically inclined.
You'll not even be aware that the ISP's covering the majority of the population
Several of my friends are or were among the minority who use sat
Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
They probably paid Microsoft more for access than you did for your operating system. Enjoy being captive to this new customer experience!
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Cable should be free, let the ads and networks pay for my views!
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Welcome to the modern law of supply and demand. The suppliers have become the customers of other corporations, and the people who pay and think they are the customers (people buy Windows 10 as part of a new computer) have nothing to say anymore.
Could go either way.
One could argue that the OS is a component of the PC, so of course the PC manufacturer is the customer.
Or, one could argue that the PC manufacturer is a reseller of the OS.
Is 2019 to be the year of Linux on the desktop? (Score:2, Interesting)
Probably not, but we are investing heavily in creating custom scripts to remove all of this crap which we'll have to re-run after every feature update.
"Enterprise" edition my ass.
they also mess-up sysprep as well. (Score:2)
they also mess-up sysprep as well.
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They want you deploy it.
bare essentials (Score:2)
Before Windows 10, a clean install of Windows only included the bare essentials a user would need to get started using their PC.
Like a media player with a music video.
And solitaire.
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Media Player is still garbage and now the Solitaire game comes with ads, doesn't auto complete, and doesn't do a cool thing when you when a hand.
What are they gonna do? (Score:2)
Switch to Linux? Ha-ha.
Newflash.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Its still effectively IE12, but it is a better browser than the ones before it.
Re:Newflash.. (Score:5, Insightful)
You are not the customer. You are the product. Your usage info and access to your computer (to force-install programs) is being sold to the actual customers - companies wanting marketing info and to sell you things.
The difference is Facebook and Google have to give their product away for free to get people to agree to be the product. Microsoft somehow still manages to get people to pay for the "privilege" of becoming the product.
Outrage: Solitaire requires internet access! (Score:3)
What the article fails to properly address is the massive outrage that Solitaire now *REQUIRES* internet access. No more plinking away at quick hands when the network is recycling, or a PC is being scanned. Ugh.
I do it old school (Score:2, Funny)
I play solitaire on my Windows laptop. No internet required.
A 17” laptop makes a nice card table once you close the lid, but you need to use small cards.
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The other option is to play games on your desktop while your laptop is at work. This requires a somewhat larger desk.
Not my experience (Score:3)
While this would be absolutely inexcusable behaviour for an OS, it doesn't match my experience with Windows 10. I haven't seen any unusual apps show up. My system looks remarkably clean. Almost suspiciously so...
Easy fix: LTSB/LTSC (Score:2, Interesting)
Easy fix for this. Windows 10 LTSB/LTSC.
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"LTSB is a licensing option for Windows 10 Enterprise and is available only for customers with a Volume License agreement."
Not such an easy fix.
Increasingly common (Score:2)
It's annoying but it's been a growing trend for a long time. Android phone makers are far worse in shipping unremovable random software. I remember years ago being infuriated that Linux distributions started shipping huge amounts of software as compulsory installed components (and even more as default options), while OSes like Solaris would still default to a minimal base install.
Having a system assume you want Python installed is less annoying than one assuming you want Candy Crush installed, but only marg
No historical perspective (Score:3)
Before Windows 10, a clean install of Windows only included the bare essentials a user would need to get started using their PC
Really? There wasn't a huge lawsuit about this?
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If you are thinking about IE, that's not bloatware, it is an essential piece of software. Even if you didn't use it as your default browser, you probably used it at least once to download your favorite alternative browser.
The point of lawsuit is that a web browser is so essential that not letting user choose is anti-competitive.
Re: No historical perspective (Score:2)
Even on Pro (Score:5, Informative)
The even more ridiculous thing is that this happens even on the Pro version. The one that's supposed to be for doing work. And those "policies you can set that disable these apps from automatically installing"? Yeah, they don't work anymore. As a result every employee gets Candy Crush and the like installed on every machine. Absolutely insane.
The document you're looking for is... (Score:3)
Yes, Windows 10 is a [...redacted...].
The document you're looking for is here, if you're stuck with it:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-... [microsoft.com]
Umm, I don't see it (Score:2)
I'm running win 10. I don't see any such thing.
Windows has always included games by default (Score:2)
Millions of people enjoyed playing the default solitaire under Windows 3.1, why would you complain about games in the default install?
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They used to preinstall games.
Now they preinstall conduits for monetization.
Users are still confused in the 21st Century. (Score:2)
Dear Microsoft User,
Understand one thing.
You are the consumer, NOT the customer.
In short, Fuck You Very Much, and Have a Nice Day.
- Microsoft
With Windows 10, you no longer own your computer (Score:5, Interesting)
Once you install Windows 10, you no longer own your computer. Microsoft can install what ever they want on it, and reboot it when ever they want. That also gives them the ability to remove anything they want from your computer.
Meanwhile in a saner world.. (Score:2)
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IDGAF about Windows 10 -- and never will. Why aren't you doing the same?
Because even with the extra bloat, Windows 10 performs better than Windows 8 - almost as much of an improvement as 7 was over Vista.
Easy fix (Score:3)
This is why I haven't bought Windows in 12 years (Score:2)
Microsoft's shittyness reached intolerable levels (for me) during the Vista fiasco about 12 years ago, and I've stopped purchasing Windows. Instead I download and use pirated versions of Windows that have the phone-home "features" disabled and the worst of the bloat removed. The pirate groups that I recognize do an excellent job and also are quite trustworthy (that is, they don't put virus or trojans on it and is safe to use if you get it from their site).
Microsoft never gives a good user experience. (Score:2)
>> " This is not a good user experience, Microsoft."
Yep.
Microsoft never gives a good user experience.
Did you expect something else ? why ?
Linux/windows games (Score:2)
I watched this video immediately before opening slashdot and seeing this story. By coincidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
I actually already knew something about this. Just happen to see Linus' rendition. Not Torvalds. The other one.
Seems like Valve really has had it out for MS going to back windows 8. Now there's really no reason to run Win 10 any more. Unless you want to manage hyper-v.
Why not? (Score:3)
Perspective of a vendor (Score:2)
As a vendor who sells Windows pre-installed on my machines, I am outraged by this! Microsoft should be pre-installing MY bloatware, not someone else's bloatware! I demand that Microsoft automatically install 3 firewalls, 4 backup utilities, 2 CD burners, 30-day trials of all Intuit software, plus a free office suite that can't open any formats you've ever heard of.
MSMG Toolkit (Score:3, Interesting)
This post is very confusing to me. (Score:3)
This post is very confusing to me. EVERY Windows 10 PC? I've been using Windows 10 for years and NOTHING from a third party has EVER been installed automatically onto my machine. And by "machine," I mean a half-dozen different machines. I'm on a Windows 10 machine right now and none of the listed applications is installed on it. I last bought a brand-new Windows 10 machine in June and none of these apps is installed on it, either. So where is this idea coming from? I'd really like to know.
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The difference is that Microsoft actually installs some of these applications, like Candy Crush.
Re:Malware installs bloatware... (Score:5, Insightful)
Because some of our clients have specialized equipment with interface software that only runs on Windows?
Re: Malware installs bloatware... (Score:5, Insightful)
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The real issue is that Microsoft doesn't see these things as bloatware for the Windows 10 intended audience. If you want a professional or enterprise OS, buy Windows 10 Enterprise. You will find that all the Microsoft crap is gone. Of course, it costs more, but has more support and capabilities (like VPN just works). If you run around buying home and SOHO versions, its intended for highschoolers who use candy crush and spotify.
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What edition does Microsoft expect a small local business with about a dozen PCs to buy?
Re: Malware installs bloatware... (Score:3)
Except that you can not (Score:5, Informative)
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The thing is, you simply can NOT buy Win 10 Enterprise unless you are a large company. They sell licenses starting with 50 users.
This is only true for what they call an "E5" enterprise agreement.
There is also a lower "E3" enterprise licensing model that only requires 5 device licenses, usually $150 each but you can purchase a placeholder device cal that is $30 to fill in the required 5 total.
It's then $84/user/year with no real minimum requirement.
E3 does not come with a deployment image version of windows 10 enterprise, but instead as an upgrade to windows 10 professional.
That does mean you'll need a licensed copy of 10 pro to upgra
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Perhaps, But I doubt you will see to many Open Source Development projects for "Rare use device, made by only a few vender's who will only offer support if you use their own software"
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Re:Malware installs bloatware... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't understand tech people that still uses crap like Windoze...
I don't understand humans that still use air from the atmosphere to breathe.
I don't understand rail commuters that still board trains.
I don't understand grass seed companies that still use fescue seeds.
Windows is the most common platform out there- of course a large number of tech workers are still going to be using it.
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I don't understand tech people that still uses crap like Windoze...
...
Windows is the most common platform out there- of course a large number of tech workers are still going to be using it.
It's interesting then that in my world, the windows using tech worker is an exception. Hundreds of devs and tech workers I work with all use *nix of one flavor or another. Why? Because everything they do pretty much interacts with a *nix server. In fact, I can't recall touching a windows "server" in at least 5 years at a multitude of clients big and small.
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Do you expect the majority of desktop and laptop users in small and medium businesses to give up their desktop or laptop PC in favor of a mobile device connected to a cloud system backend? I didn't think so.
Don't understand the issue at all... (Score:2)
I honestly don't understand the issue at all. While the automatic Windows updates were a big problem for me, a problem which resurfaced a few times, I have never had an issue with the app store. I do not even have a Microsoft app store login. My Windows 10 has never tried to automatically install any apps.
Since buying this laptop a year and a half ago, I've done two Windows upgrades on it. Both times Cortana, Edge, and a few other built-in bits that are hard to remove showed back up, requiring install_w
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Ditto. I don't see this crap as bloatware that demands a response. If my PC gets low on disk space I just groom. Lots of other stuff is easier to identify and remove.
If it's eating cycles, I can see that pretty quickly and deal with it. Users who are unable to do so are often unable to discern performance problems.
Internet overages (Score:5, Insightful)
"Grooming" will not recover the $10 per GB that your satellite or fixed-wireless ISP bills you for having downloaded the apps in the first place.
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Do you consider Windows forcing the installation of un-vetted and non-native programs as part of its update process to be GOOD security?
Holy crap, where's your bar for when something is bad security?
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Network effects (Score:2)
I don't understand tech people that still uses crap like Windoze...
Then study up on network effects [wikipedia.org].
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I cannot play my games on Linux.
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I like Linux, but Windows has some advantages, that is why My system is setup for duel boot.
This is my experience, other peoples impressions may very (Due to differences in hardware)
1. UI seems to have better responses times. From watching a video, playing games, or just dealing with a Code Editor the UI seems to run a bit more quickly and more responsibly.
2. Better support for hardware and drivers. Heck on a System 76 Laptop supposedly built for Linux, the Fingerprint reader works in Windows but not in L
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Re:First sentence (Score:5, Funny)
Wait, USB drivers were not bloatware. They just didn't work.
There's a difference.
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Well how to define bloatware? Is it just a program that is installed that you never use, or not needed by an other application?
If that is the case Bloat where was around back in the MSDos 3 days. If you weren't a programmer, why is you disk filled with GWBasic!
MSDos 5 you got these silly games where you throw bananas at each other.
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"Enterprise-grade" only describes capabilities and code quality. Actually subscribing to the Enterprise version means you've paid the protection money to make sure nothing bad happens to the nice set up you've got there.
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Re:it turns out Microsoft never put paid to it (Score:4, Funny)
"Put paid to X" is an obscure idiom that means to end/destroy X, in this case, ending the practice of downloading bloatware. The writer was being fancy. They really should "eschew obfuscation".
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All you will get is a boiler plate thank you for using our app we have sent the review to the relevant teams and nothing changes.