Has the Love Affair With Driving Gotten Stuck in Traffic? (washingtonpost.com) 332
America's love affair with the automobile and those dreams of roaring off on open highways are on the wane as the nation grapples with too much stop-and-go traffic and too many hours spent behind the steering wheel. From a report: Those findings are contained in a report to be released Thursday by Arity, a technology research spinoff created two years ago by Allstate Insurance. Arity underscored the growing disillusionment by using an illustration: Americans, on average, spend more time in their cars -- mostly driving to and from work -- than they receive in vacation time. Arity researchers said most people average 321 hours in the car each year and get 120 hours of vacation [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled; an alternative source was not immediately available.]. "To me, that really crystallizes the issue," said Lisa Jillson, who leads Arity's research and design department. "I get a certain amount of vacation time, and I spend almost three times that in my car just getting back and forth to a job."
Her research showed a notable difference between millennials and baby boomers. Unhappiness with driving becomes more pronounced, with 59 percent of millennials saying they'd "rather spend time doing more productive tasks than driving," while only 45 percent of baby boomers make that same statement.
Her research showed a notable difference between millennials and baby boomers. Unhappiness with driving becomes more pronounced, with 59 percent of millennials saying they'd "rather spend time doing more productive tasks than driving," while only 45 percent of baby boomers make that same statement.
I've been over it for years (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm in my late 30's and never made a drivers license, and one of my reasons is that driving a car just to get from X to Y, especially when done daily for commute, is a waste of time. Using public transportation I am free to make use of the time as I see fit. It's also healthier, because there's always some walking involved to move to the stations.
Of course I can afford that, living in an area of Europe that is very well connected with public transportation, I really feel like owning a car is unnecessary. I
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I agree with you 100%. I'm actively trying to move from the US to Europe primarily for this reason.
I lived in Europe for almost 10 years, but not for this reason. Public transit in Germany, where I lived, actually sucks. Don't get me wrong, it's great compared to the U.S., but that's not saying much. Trains were way overpriced, almost always overfilled, and often cancelled. Local transit was a bus service that took almost an hour to go from work to home, even though a direct route would be 10 km, because the only bus took a very circuitous route to where I lived. I started riding a bike to work instead,
Re: (Score:2)
I'm in my late 30's and never made a drivers license
I take it you don't have kids? Even the last buddy of mine who never got his license finally succumbed at age 30 because with three kids the schedule just didn't add up anymore, even though his wife drove. I've taken public transport to work more years than I've driven and not always owned one either, but being stuck without the possibility to borrow/share/rent/lease one and depend on taxis and public transport for everything that would be terrible. I mean I could obviously manage like if I for some medical
Terrible Stop Lights (Score:2)
My city has those (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Please let me know where these sensors are that work well. Most of them I've dealt with change the light for nobody and then fail to detect cars. I can't tell you how many red lights I've sat through unnecessarily waiting for a left turn arrow that no one was waiting for...
Re: (Score:2)
Driving is fun (Score:2)
But commuting sucks. It just becomes a routine you have to do like brushing your teeth and taking out the garbage. Heavy traffic of course just makes it worse. Sadly, as good as public transport can be for a lot of reasons, it's not much fun either and in many cases won't save you any time.
I now live 10 minutes walk to the office and it still kind of sucks when it's very cold and/or rainy. On those days I can just stay in and work from home though :D
Public transportation does save time (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't do anything else while I'm driving. I can do all sorts of stuff (work, relax, etc.) while on public transit.
Re: (Score:3)
Still, if the traffic sets you back 1 hour, but public transit sets you back 2.5 hours, most people will drive. There's simply not enough hours in the day to devote 5 hours of it to the commute.
Re:Public transportation does save time (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a psychological aspect to it as well. As soon as you get in your car, the workday's done in your mind. With public transport, the day ends only when you're at your front door.
Re:Public transportation does save time (Score:4, Insightful)
I find worrying about getting creamed (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And in my city, you'll have plenty of time to do those other things, because the transit system assumes all trips are going downtown, so it takes 3x as long to get where you are actually going than if you just drive.
I can do all that stuff you mention with the time I save by not using the shitty transit system here.
Re: (Score:2)
Let me guess. You live in Los Angeles. That's one of my beefs with the transit system here.
Re: (Score:2)
Could also be Atlanta. It doesn't help that there is no unified regional transit system (though that is in the works). But if you want to go from suburb to suburb, figure on it taking half a day if it can even be done at all.
Not all (Score:2)
On the plus side my car is nearly 50 years old, stick shift, and fun as heck to drive. So the drive can be by the seat of your pants which can be pretty enjoyable. There is about a three mile stretch where the road curves back and forth several times that most people don't like to take. That stretch alone is a joy to take at 10-15 mph above
Re:Not all (Score:4, Interesting)
Sadly, for some reason, a lot of people, particularly the younger ones, don't think of a car as something that can be 'fun' or 'exciting'...it is merely a commodity, or necessary evil to get from A->B.
Not me...I've owned nothing but 2 seat sports cars all my life...I worked and saved before HS so I could get one in HS, and have saved and traded up since then (kinda like I did with my stereo)....
I too love to hit the gas and down/up shift on stretches of road when no one is around.
But sadly, not as many people appreciate that anymore.
Hell, it is getting nigh impossible to find a new car with a manual transmission anymore.
Re: (Score:2)
Like I've told my wife, if I wreck my car I'll just fix. If I total the car, I'll take what I can from mine, transplant to a new less wrecked car and drive that. I'm either giving my car to my kids or dying in it.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Not all (Score:4, Insightful)
It is an interesting point...
I used to hate driving. But after saying, "Y'know, if I'm going to spend an hour-and-a-half a day in my car, five days per week, I'm going to get a car that I don't mind being in." So I went and bought a nice car. And I didn't hate driving anymore.
There are plenty of people who look at a car as a necessary evil--"I just need something that will get me from Point A to Point B." They buy that and then they complain that it isn't comfortable to drive for two hours. Well, maybe you should have included that in your requirements.
I hate cars (Score:3)
That said if I had one in high school (along with the increase in social standing that comes with one) my opinion would probably be very different.
Meanwhile I drive home against traffic each day and it's terrifying to me how bad things are. Traffic will be backed up several miles on surface streets. Freeways are at least a half mile. Meanwhile all those cars are spewing toxins and we're wasting gas and getting into wars we can't afford to feed our hungry engines.
Why do we live like this?
Re: (Score:2)
Why do we live like this?
If you have viable alternatives, I'm sure we'd all love to hear them.
Re: (Score:2)
It's one of those questions I always ask people: "Have you looked into alternatives? Tried them out?"
Many times, using the car is a path of least resistance. "Yes, I could take the bus or the train and maybe bike the rest of the way, but that just seems like too much work and, in the mornings, I just don't want that hassle."
There's also the expense. "I have a $400 a month car payment and you want me to spend $100 a month on bus/train fare just to do the same thing I could do with my car?"
My roommate was
Re: (Score:2)
I used to live in a situation where I had a 30-45 minute commute to work by car. I lived right next to a bus stop and my office had a bus stop next to it. The estimated time for a public transit trip from my home to work was over 2-1/2 hours. This is metro Atlanta and unless your commute is within the city or from the suburbs to the city, good luck. I lived in one suburb and worked in another and the two transit systems were only connected downtown.
Now I live out in the cow fields and have a 30ish minute co
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Why do we live like this?
Because owning your own flexible mode of transportation gives you the option of bypassing all of the crappy businesses that transit-bound people are stuck with. I don't mind taking the bus or riding a bike. But once the local stores figure that they have a significant captive market in their little urban villages, their prices go up and their quality goes down. While all the carless people are stuck shopping within a raduis dictated by how far they are willing to lug groceries on a bus, I'll just jump in my
Re: (Score:3)
On the other hand, you probably go shopping for groceries once a week at best and have to buy stuff that can be stored for a long time. I just use a shop on my way and go almost every day there so my groceries are actually fresh.
Re: (Score:2)
On the other hand, you probably go shopping for groceries once a week at best
Maybe for major re-stocking at the local Costco. But I do stop by and pick up fresh fruit and whatnot almost every day. With a car, it's a 10 minute side trip. Too many people living in urban villages have no such option. It's junk food at the corner bodega or hours on the bus (at which point it's not really 'fresh') . The USA doesn't have traditions like a neighborhood bakery or butcher. We do have some nice farm fruit stands. But these are usually out of town a ways (good luck without a car). The bodega
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Why do we live like this?
Because, on the whole, people like cars and governments like (gas) tax revenue.
Public transit takes both of those things away. Electric cars help with the pollution, but costs government the gas tax revenues, hence the sometimes "innovative" proposals you are starting to hear about how to tax electric car owners for their utilization of road infrastructure.
Still, in practically every city, outside of the places where there is simply no possible way to increase road capacity, people will prefer increased ro
Re:I hate cars (Score:4, Informative)
Gas tax comes nowhere near to paying for the cost of building and maintaining our streets and roads.
Re:I hate cars (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, you can thank General Motors for the love of cars.
Because back in the early 20th century, public transit in North America was actually.... extremely good. In any town or city, bit or small, you could get around using public transit. between horse drawn carriages to street cars it was a completely normal way to travel. Not just New York, or San Francisco, but any twon in any state.
Of course, the Model T brought cars into the mix, but not by much - they were relatively finicky things and you still had to contend with a lot of pedestrian traffic everywhere.
What replaced the street car was buses, which were considered high tech and advanced (since they didn't require rails). This did lead to the failure of many streetcar companies, since people flocked the novel bus that could go more places (and did) over the street car.
General Motors came along and basically decided to buy out all the failing street car companies. They didn't replace them, just bought them up, shut them down and left it as things were. Advertised the heck out of cars giving freedom (we're still talking early 20th century here) and there you go. After the second world war, the car became the status symbol and everyone bought into it, the interstate system was developed and so on. Plus, cities spread out into suburbs designed for cars and you end up with what we have today.
Hard to imagine, but at one time, the USA had a better public transportation system than Europe. Even today it still doesn't quite match what we had back then.
American car culture was literally developed from advertising - just like how weddings were transformed by a few De Beers ads insisting you must have a diamond ring.
Re: (Score:3)
I finally invested in a used Tesla, so I don't worry about buying gasoline anymore.
There are actually a lot of electric car options out there now, even on the used market, so you can no longer really say they're "un-affordable". I mean, not unless your budget only includes beater cars under $2,000 or something.
I regularly see electric Smart4Two cars for sale, going for as little as $6,000-ish each, often with low mileage. If you're single and just need a vehicle for a work commute, it'll get the job done,
Re: (Score:3)
I remember as a kid, only rich people went to Hawaii
Having Love Affair when you're stuck in traffic (Score:2)
Now you're talking! ;)
Riding is Productive (Score:2)
I've lived close to and far from work over the years. Most recently I moved from a 15 minute in town commute to a 45 minute commute. I'm finding that the 45 minute commute is pretty productive. I think about work and home things, it lets me wind down and get ideas. I'll either make a spoken note or just remember what I want to do to make improvements to whatever I'm doing be it home or work related. I almost never have any music, pod cast, or books on tape going as a quiet commute is my desire. The short co
Re: (Score:2)
I often think about work projects during a commute in public transport. When I drive myself, I prefer to keep my full attention on the traffic.
Re: (Score:3)
When I drive, I prefer to post things on Slashd{#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER
Re: (Score:2)
Autonomous cars (Score:2)
This is where autonomous cars will help. When you can get work done as part of your commute it becomes less of a hassle. This is why rich people have drivers, so they can be conducting business and the driver has no incentive to get worked up about traffic as it's their job and they get paid no matter what traffic is doing.
While is may be practical for some people to pick up a cheap rental near work to live and work in during the week, it's not a practical solution for people who have families. And it req
Isn't this because Baby boomers have more time (Score:2)
The problem isn't cars (Score:2)
The problem is city design as well as the concept of a work day is 9 to 5.
We cluster so much similar types of work in a concentrated location and dictate that it all starts and ends at the same hour.
Convince your employer to start an hour later or earlier and you will see a major difference.
Re: (Score:2)
I took your idea and wanted to improve upon it. However, my boss was not amused when I asked that we change our work hours from 08:00-to-17:00 to 21:00-to-06:00.
So sorry you're stuck in traffic... (Score:4, Informative)
... because I'm not. I've been commuting by bicycle for the last 20 years. It's like being on vacation while getting to work -- the best part of my day! It's a bit over 20 miles (33 km) each way so I'm on the bike for about two hours/day. What's great is that I get two hours of workout in per day for essentially one hour of time (it takes 30 minutes to drive each way). The thing most motorist don't understand is riding a bike is often faster than driving. On surface streets, it's almost always faster to ride a bike during commute hours. On average, cars go about 13 mph (21 kph) in cities, which is a very easy speed to ride a bike. Yeah, I live in California, but I've commuted year 'round in Michigan too, so there...
Re: (Score:2)
Plus sides include getting my exercise in for the day on my way to/from work, I'm super relaxed and more productive at work, I'm not putting miles on my car...
I suppose I'm lucky to live in the reasonably dense mid-Atlantic with plenty of biking lanes and paths. I grew up in Indianapolis and cou
Used to dread my commute. (Score:5, Interesting)
It was 1.5 hours from my house to the shop in Calle Ocho. Through the worst of miami. 2nd gear crawling most of the time.
Then I got a better job, closer to home. I actually get to enjoy my car now. I floor the first 3 gears then lazy-shift up the last 3. Nice, flowing traffic -- fast, mind you, but easy.
There's those who love to drive, and those who hate driving and hate cars. Guess who there's more of. Yeah. This is why cars are maybe 5% of the cars out there, and the rest are lumbering land-cows called "SUVs" and "Crossovers."
And of those 5%, maybe 1% of those are sports car. What the hell happened? What's with all the land cows?
Leave the driving to those who love cars. The rest of you, for all that is holy, get your self-driving podmobiles already!
Re: (Score:2)
The "land cows" have always been there. Before SUVs and crossovers, Americans bought Oldsmobile station wagons with fake wood siding and land barges like the Ford LTD. And then mooooomyvans like the Dodge Caravan...
Re: (Score:2)
There's those who love to drive, and those who hate driving and hate cars. Guess who there's more of. Yeah. This is why cars are maybe 5% of the cars out there, and the rest are lumbering land-cows called "SUVs" and "Crossovers."
And of those 5%, maybe 1% of those are sports car. What the hell happened? What's with all the land cows?
I've owned small cars, sport sedans, motorcycles, and hatchbacks all my life. I looked down upon large vehicles as unnecessary. Until last month when I started a concrete business and had to trade up for a truck. While I love the cornering of a small car and shuffling through the gears of a manual transmission, it just doesn't make sense in some places. My knee was in constant pain when I had a manual transmission Miata in Houston. If I had gotten into any accident in my CRX I would have probably been
Feds Failed to Make Roads Safe for Non-Motorists (Score:5, Informative)
If you make our transportation systems safer for pedestrians, bicyclists, motorcyclists, and scooterists, it will cut down traffic, and reduce our dependence on oil.
Scooters, motorcycles, and mopeds help reduce traffic in other countries.
(Some scooters get 92MPG, many motorcycles get 64MPG.)
Re: (Score:2)
Some scooters get 92MPG
That'd be pretty mediocre! My 125cc Honda gets >120 MPG. It won't cut it for freeway driving, but it'll get up to 45-50mph without too much struggling.
Time in car != time stuck in traffic (Score:2)
The "problem" isn't traffic. It's suburbanization and high
Love affair with driving? (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Spoken like someone thats never driven a corvette. Floor one of those fuckers down the freeway some day and then tell me its about the destination because when I'm behind the wheel of one of those SOB's I really dont give to shits where I am going.
What about Gen X ?!? (Score:4)
You do know there's a whole generation in between Boomers and Millennials right? A lot of Boomers are retired now, so if this research is being done on commuters, the people you are calling "Baby Boomers" are probably Generation X.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You do know there's a whole generation in between Boomers and Millennials right? A lot of Boomers are retired now, so if this research is being done on commuters, the people you are calling "Baby Boomers" are probably Generation X.
These studies always forget that we exist, only Boomers and Millennials matter to them. We're the ones always going "well nobody asked me" whenever we see these studies and poll results.
Re: (Score:2)
In all "serious" studies, it's Millenials VS !Millenials
Vacation time commute time? Really? (Score:3)
"Our study shows average_vacation_time average_commute_time".
How is this significant? Does anyone commuting think like this? I just view commuting as part of a typical work day.
It should come to no ones surprise that my vacation_days my_work_days.
Re: (Score:2)
ugh, Why does a LESS_THAN symbol disappear?
"Our study shows average_vacation_time IS_LESS_THAN average_commute_time".
How is this significant? Does anyone commuting think like this? I just view commuting as part of a typical work day.
It should come to no ones surprise that my vacation_days IS_LESS_THAN my_work_days.
600+ hours commuting (Score:2)
120 hours of PTO (can't really call it vacation, since what used to be 5 sick/personal days are now lumped into it, so really about 80 hours of vacation). Plus 80 holidays.
Yes, my life sucks....
What's crazy is that with a 2 week vacation (Score:2)
This is a half-assed supposition. (Score:2)
Okay, yeah, we're in cars. You know what we're also doing? Getting utility out of those cars by being able to live further away from dense cities while commuting into them for our high-paying jobs.
People wouldn't sit in traffic unless they had to? No shit. People also tend to work in sweatshops because they're _better paying than every other job_ in their town.
I agree that it's a good amount of perspective that we get less vacation than we drive to work in terms of hours to convoy how long we really spend g
Cross-Country (Score:2)
No. (Score:2)
I love driving, and I consider it a hobby as well as essential transportation. I grew up in a big city but I no longer live in one, so there are no traffic jams here, ever. the system functions as intended and driving is a pleasure. I have a car, a truck and a travel trailer. I use the car when I'm not hauling things - 34 MPG and fast. The diesel truck gets used when hauling or towing.
There is a rather large disconnect between the city experience and the country experience. Here it's a central part
Commuting doesn't suck. I like it. (Score:2)
I know that the prevailing sentiment here is traffic, commuting, and why you need to commute and how bad it all is. I commuted at least 25 miles one way my entire working life, and I enjoyed it. Being in my car, alone, driving, was the most pleasant and least stressful part of the day. I could listen to the radio--if I wanted to--or I could keep it off. There was no one else making extra noise, no constant pestering for attention, no distractions except other traffic, which was more or less an auto-pilot ki
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Work close to where you live as a priority (Score:5, Insightful)
Easy to say when single.
When I was a bachelor, I would rent within walking distance of my employer, even though it was in the suburbs and it involved me cutting through some business parks. Then I got married and my wife got a job. Then my employer moved. Then we had kids and had to think about school districts. We moved to a place that is a 5 mile commute (in heavy traffic) for her and a 10 mile commute for me (in light to moderate traffic) with a decent school system. But either of us could get fired tomorrow and our commute could change, and we wouldn't be able to move without uprooting our kids and selling our home.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, this is nothing new. People have had to uproot and move to jobs for most modern days.
And heck, in the 60's - 90's...it was a bit more difficult as that no internet, you had to manually let everyone know where you'd moved, etc.
And there was no such thing as working remotely, which is more and more becoming an option today.
But really, no one in several decades assumed they were entitled to stay at one job, in one city
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Why is it impossible?
Basically, you move with the person that makes the most money, right?
It's the golden rule: "He who makes the most gold, makes the rules".
But seriously, whichever one makes the most $$....if they have to move, then you do.
Is it easy? No.
Is it convenient? No.
Is it doable...and pretty much required in modern life to advance? Yes.
Re:Work close to where you live as a priority (Score:5, Insightful)
What the fuck are you arguing against? Somebody said move to your job rather than care about the improvement of roads and transportation. The other person said that's not a practical solution for huge swaths of people when there's two jobs and kids. Your point is, apparently, "Yes, you're right, it's not a solution, stop whining about it."
Like somebody saying, "Hey this could make things better" and your answer is "My perceived experience with this inconvenience means you shouldn't be interested in whether the conditions dealing with it deteriorate or improve." You're a dumbfuck, cayenne8. Every fucking day.
Re: (Score:2)
But seriously, whichever one makes the most $$....if they have to move, then you do.
Uh, that's what I did - and the place I found was 15 miles from her workplace. She works in the absolute shittiest part of the city. If there was an engineering job there, I couldn't find it.
Re: (Score:3)
Yup, and that's why one of my coworkers bitched every day about his awful commute from San Francisco to San Jose, because his wife was the one who made the most money. But he still did the commute, he wasn't just going to quit and stay at home because you don't just give up that extra $160K/year because the commute is long.
Re: Work close to where you live as a priority (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually the 60's -90's you got one job and stayed with it until you died.
You might only work for 2-3 companies your entire life.
Millineials basically have to get a new job every 5 years with a new employer as employers do not give out wage increases otherwise. Why do you think wage growth has basically been negative for the last 15 years compared to inflation?
Re: (Score:3)
I grew up through those years, and you are wrong...at least from my experience, and all of my friends i grew up with along the way (and along the moves).
We didn't really settle in one place for a LONG period of time, till I was starting about 6th grade or so.
I myself moved for schooling and jobs for most of my younger years...till about age 35 or so....
Re: Work close to where you live as a priority (Score:4, Informative)
No need to argue, we have data! [forbes.com]
Re: (Score:3)
Actually the 60's -90's you got one job and stayed with it until you died.
This is a myth. Average job tenure is higher today that it was in the past.
Sure, there were some people that had jobs for life (and still are today), but that was not common, especially if you were female or non-white.
The "golden age" of jobs for a lifetime never existed.
Why do you think wage growth has basically been negative for the last 15 years compared to inflation?
It hasn't. Median wages, corrected for inflation, are higher than 15 years ago.
Median household income has gone up less, because of a decline in workforce participation, but even that has not been negative.
Re: (Score:3)
2 People work in most households so divide that wage by 2
I saw my dad support us during the 60-70s easily with blue collar work and mom get a part time job when the 80s S&L bust impacted the mortgage.
She never stopped working after that
Re:Work close to where you live as a priority (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a few big differences between then and now:
1. Both parents work now, so it's much harder to find a place that's close for both
2. People change jobs every 2-3 years, instead of staying at one company for decades
3. Houses have become much more expensive, together with the associated transaction costs
Re:Work close to where you live as a priority (Score:4, Interesting)
Lower your expectations: buy used cars, don't renovate your damn kitchen and toilet every 2.5 years to keep up with the Joneses (20 or 30 year old appliances work fine), don't switch phones/laptops/iPads every year, buy a small house with a small yard, or better yet, a 2-family where some other schmoe pays your mortgage.
Then you won't need a second income or to job-jump to "advance" every 2-3 years.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
3. Houses have become much more expensive
They are also much bigger. New houses today are twice as big as houses built 50 years ago, despite families getting smaller.
Adjusted for inflation, the average cost per square-foot has barely changed.
Re:Work close to where you live as a priority (Score:4, Insightful)
In the '60s, there was usually just one job to consider per family. In the '70s, there was one primary job and a secondary job that was fairly easy to replace or even do without for a bit. That made things a lot easier logistically.
Re: (Score:2)
...and we wouldn't be able to move without uprooting our kids and selling our home.
My family did it as I was growing up, as that Dad moved us when better jobs were to be had for the family. (...) So, this isn't something new....families have done this for longer than I have lived.
A few kids do. I'm trying to think back and from 1st through 9th grade, out of ~50 pupils in two classes I'm struggling to remember even a handful that moved out of or into the school district, I remember two and it certainly wasn't every year. Maybe it's a cultural thing or that my neighborhood was exceptionally stable but my impression is that a lot of people are looking to move when they have toddlers, but then there's a decade's solid freeze until high school. In the short term I know people who drove 1
Re: (Score:2)
I don't really disagree, but how does that rebut my point? You can't say "move close to work" when there are people in the household who work 15 miles apart - the best you can do is split the difference. Bad schools mean some areas are less attractive if you have kids. Uprooting the kids is of course an option, but it is not without cost - so one weighs the costs and the benefits. Would you uproot your kids to save 5 minutes on your commute? How about 30? That line is very dependent on your circumstances.
Re: (Score:3)
No, it's not because I'm suburban.
My job is suburban. Even so, for a while when I was single I lived in the city before I got tired of the commute and high rent.
My kids simply cannot use the public education system in the city, so it's a non-starter there. I'd have to pay for private school.
My wife actually works in the city, which is why here commute is so hellish.
Our compromise is that we live in a first-ring suburb with excellent bus and train access. We can be downtown in 20 minutes on public transit, w
Re: (Score:2)
Are they only polling places like D.C, L.A. , Houston?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Work close to where you live as a priority (Score:5, Funny)
I'd tell you but then you'd want to move here which would just make our traffic load worse. Sorry.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I"ve live all over the south east and south central areas of the US mostly, but also in other states, some out west.
Sure, there is rush hour, but I've never been stuck in traffic for an hour or more as a normal thing.
Most of my commutes have been in the 10-15min range each way avg.
I did have one job, that had a 35min
Re: (Score:2)
they designed the roadways for less than half of the current traffic load
Then the city is full. And they need to stop issuing building permits. If it was an overtaxed water or sewer system, it's not unheard of for cities to declare moratoriums on new construction. Why not with roads?
Re:Work close to where you live as a priority (Score:5, Insightful)
You know what happens when a city stops growing? It stagnates and dies. Cities plan for growth, and when it stops happening, bad things happen to the plans based on growth. Governments can grow quite easily, but shrinking is very hard, and often behind the curve creating a death spiral for the city. It doesn't happen very often, but when it does, it is ugly.
Re:Work close to where you live as a priority (Score:4, Informative)
Cities plan for growth, and when it stops happening, bad things happen
Ponzi planned for growth.
Many perfectly viable businesses have upper limits on growth and seem to succeed without it. My dentist, for one example.
Re: (Score:3)
Except new developments, new jobs, and new residents mean more tax revenue. Local governments all want that and they don't want to spend it on infrastructure. They want to spend it on nice offices, pay raises, pensions, parks, signs, chambers of commerce, and anything except roads, schools, police, fire, or water services.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Work close to where you live as a priority (Score:4, Insightful)
There is some truth to that. As you build more capacity, traffic in that spot gets worse, but traffic *in general* gets better. The traffic on the main throughfare gets worse, but the traffic on the side streets and alternate routes improves. The key is to expand multiple roads and not just the one.
Re: (Score:2)
My employer just moved my office recently, and it doubled my commute.
Sounds bad, until you realize that my commute is now 18 minutes.
Everything is relative.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm wondering where all these people live where there is SO much traffic every day?
Are they only polling places like D.C, L.A. , Houston?
It can take me anywhere from 1-2 hours to get home here in the ATL. Work southside, live very far northside (only good place with halfway decent housing costs and even those have skyrocketed the past 3 years). Can't move because wife works northside. Of course, the main problem here is they have 2 major highways merge through the city. If they would split the 2 highways it would reduce travel time for me because most downtown traffic is for the other main highway.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, those people with short commutes in the 60s and 70s killed all the highway development because they didn't want to split neighborhoods and highways back then were loud and polluting. Now it's too expensive to get the right of way to expand and add new highways so we are all screwed.
Look at Atlanta vs cities like Houston and LA. At least in Houston and LA there are multiple highways and alternate routes. If the downtown connector gets shut down due to a pinhole camera on a bridge, the entire city is sc
Re: (Score:2)
. Commuting is for people who didn't think ahead, and they pay a price and even may die because of it.
Or can't afford to buy, or think buying is a bad investment, that property which is close to where they work. In my case, the homes which would require no traffic are in the $1-$2M range. I work just outside of a "cheap" city. I cannot imagine what people in Si Valley deal with.