Latest Windows 10 Update Breaks Windows Media Player, Win32 Apps In General (arstechnica.com) 200
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: The important data loss bug that interrupted the rollout of the Windows 10 October 2018 Update, version 1809, may be fixed, but it turns out there are plenty of other weird problems with the release. As spotted by Paul Thurrott, the update also breaks the seek bar in Windows Media Player when playing "specific files." Microsoft does promise to fix the bug, but the timeframe is vaguely open-ended: it will be "in an upcoming release."
Also in the "how did that happen" category comes another bug: some Win32 programs can't be set as the default program for a given file type. So if you want certain files to always open in Notepad, for example, you're currently out of luck. A fix for this is promised by the end of the month. Setting default program associations is something that's been in Windows for 20-something years, so it's a little alarming that it should be broken. On top of this, there continue to be complaints that Windows 10 version 1809 doesn't work with iCloud, and machines with the iCloud client are currently blacklisted to prevent them from receiving the 1809 update. It's not immediately clear whose fault this one is -- it could be Microsoft's, but it's also possible that Apple is to blame.
Also in the "how did that happen" category comes another bug: some Win32 programs can't be set as the default program for a given file type. So if you want certain files to always open in Notepad, for example, you're currently out of luck. A fix for this is promised by the end of the month. Setting default program associations is something that's been in Windows for 20-something years, so it's a little alarming that it should be broken. On top of this, there continue to be complaints that Windows 10 version 1809 doesn't work with iCloud, and machines with the iCloud client are currently blacklisted to prevent them from receiving the 1809 update. It's not immediately clear whose fault this one is -- it could be Microsoft's, but it's also possible that Apple is to blame.
Windows shouldn't be a service! (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows just shouldn't be a service!
Leave it alone and give us big big upgrades every couple of years.... That's fine and acceptable and what we're used to.
This autoupdating crap means that any given morning, my box may be broken in very strange ways, with little if any perceivable benefit.
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Apparently the great lumbering beast that is Microsoft has now decided they're agile, and they are willing to risk their reputation and the quality of their OS to push out new bullshit features.
This is why I refused to let my Windows 8.1 machine upgrade to Win 10, and why my next 'Windows' machine will be a pure VM on a Linux host -- one in which I severely limit its network
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Except they're not agile and their testing procedures are severely lacking, likely getting progressively worse since NT4/Win95. There are more layers and complexity in their software than they can currently handle.
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I love how you compare this to NT4/95, where something as simple as specifying a minor typo in a font name through their GDI API would blue screen the entire OS.
Re:Windows shouldn't be a service! (Score:5, Insightful)
One is a bug and the other a trend.
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I love how you compare this to NT4/95, where something as simple as specifying a minor typo in a font name through their GDI API would blue screen the entire OS.
I never had a lot of experiance with it, but I thought NT4 was supposed to be stable (unlike Win9x).
My favorite way of blue-screening Windows 9x back in the day was to go on random forums and add an image:
<img src="file:///C:/con/con">
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Those were also the days where you could ping a PC with a mis-configured modem: "+++ATH0<CR>" and it would hang up because it didn't need a delay after +++ for AT commands..
So you'd go on IRC, message someone you didn't like "Click", then disconnect them. Then they couldn't rejoin with the same Nickname for a while.
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Parts of NT were stable and not-crashy. An NT4 machine that was doing modest levels of data collection or acting as a file server could probably stay online for months at a time.
Other parts were kludges upon kludges and would shit themselves constantly, leading to hilarious BSODs or boot files being corrupted.
No one was sad to see NT4 go.
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I was. I loved NT4 (SP6-era) and ran it as a daily box for years. Even got USB working (thanks to some Dell supplied drivers that could be fooled about what OS they were for) for keyboard, mouse and printer.
DirectX up to 6 (IIRC, might have been 5) so games worked as well.
But time marches on and I went to 7, and now to Linux.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Transition now (Score:3)
Begin the transition now so that you will have enough time to be made aware of any snags and find potential solutions. If you wait until the last minute you may end up frustrated and feel forced to either have a rough transition and be frustrated, or to upgrade and deal with the hassles you wish to avoid.
Try running Windows 7 and something else side by side, and see how well you get along in your alternative, booting to Windows 7 when you feel forced to and taking note of the circumstances to try and find a
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Sorry, Microsoft ... it's my fucking machine, you don't get to recklessly upgrade whenever you choose and break my desktop.
Wrong. You relinquished ownership of your machine and the data therein when you started using Windows 10 in it. You should come to terms with this fact, if you are going to carry on using Windows.
Joke: Let me help you understand Microsoft. (Score:3, Funny)
You are apparently thinking of Microsoft as a software company.
That's not correct. Microsoft is an ABUSE company. Software is just a method of delivering abuse.
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But I came here for an argument.
Windows 10 news stories not sufficiently intense. (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft is damaging customers and itself. [slashdot.org]
Some of the many, many stories:
Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made. [networkworld.com] "Buried in the service agreement is permission to poke through everything on your PC." (Aug. 4, 2015)
Microsoft's Intolerable Windows 10 Aggression [ecommercetimes.com] (May 27, 2016)
Microsoft is infesting Windows 10 with annoying ads [theverge.com] (March 17, 2017)
Microsoft, stop sabotaging Windows 10. [infoworld.com] (March 21, 2017)
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Re:Windows shouldn't be a service! (Score:5, Informative)
it's MY OS, I paid for it, and I want it on MY disk, thanks.
Wrong. You paid for a license to be able to use their OS and given the EULA you agreed to, they can change anything they want at any point and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm simply pointing out the harsh reality of the situation.
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There were EULAs before the practice of displaying these on-screen during installation and/or first use. The install media and, often, a book of some degree were shrinkwrapped. Adhered to this would be the EULA. Breaking the seal meant acceptance. For preloaded software installed by OEMs, there were [always] EULAs somewhere a!ong the package contents, and use of the purchased computer implied acceptance.
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Windows just shouldn't be a service!
Leave it alone and give us big big upgrades every couple of years.... That's fine and acceptable and what we're used to.
The article goes into this. Remember the old advice of waiting until SP1 before upgrading? The exact same development failures that caused that advice are what is happening right now.
Re:Windows shouldn't be a service! (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't like how Windows 10 behaves then switch to another operating system. Anything less is rewarding Microsoft for bad behavior.
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Why? Microsoft added the "telemetry" to Windows 7. Eventually, Windows 7 will not be supported and you will have to move to another OS and, unless you start now, you won't have an alternative other than moving to Windows 10.
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You can uninstall the telemetry with Windows 7, and it also doesn't force arbitrary updates/reboots, install ads for games on your serious machine, etc. etc.
There is nothing that will magically force people to move from Windows 7 even when Microsoft deems it EOL. By that point it will have had many years to find and fix security issues, and it's quite possible that third party tools will bridge any gaps.
Normally speaking, you'd expect the ageing support for hardware and networking in 7 to be the deciding fa
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Why? Microsoft added the "telemetry" to Windows 7. Eventually, Windows 7 will not be supported and you will have to move to another OS and, unless you start now, you won't have an alternative other than moving to Windows 10.
Even though it has the telemetry, not getting updates is a major plus, because the computer will work the next time you boot. I can switch over whenever needed. Even now, for time critical work when I have to have it I use either My Mac or my Linux machines.
But is it not a hoot that the worst malware for Windows 10 is Windows 10?
Re:Windows shouldn't be a service! (Score:5, Insightful)
Automatic updates are, in principle, not much of a problem. I have run Debian (w/o systemd) with automatic updates every 3 days for about 15 years now, both desktop and server, with one real problem in the whole time. Sure, major version updates are still manual, but everything else is not. In addition, I have some of my own boot-scripts in there and use self-compiled custom kernels. So this can be done reliably even with no-so-standard configurations.
The problem here is that MS cannot support this model, as their product is far too badly made and they do not have the technological expertise to stay on top of things. In addition, they are slowly becoming less relevant (mostly because of Android) and seem to be somewhat panicked, with one bad decision following another and UI changes (WTF? Who wants UI changes? This is a tool!) that are supposed to "revolutionize" things, but in reality just make things worse.
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The unfortunate thing is that this path seems destined to continue as long as Nadella is in charge, and for reasons that escape me Microsoft shares are trending strongly up in recent years despite the obvious elephants in the room, so it doesn't look like Nadella is going anywhere any time soon. He's basically proven that they are so dominant right now that they can screw up on the scale of Windows 10 and still not suffer financially, at least for now. How sustainable that will be when the half-or-so of Win
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Couple that with changes to enterprise agreements that require all servers to be maintained to get your platform discounts and on-prem entitlemen
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Can't be licensing management alone, because it does not get easier than (open source) LibreOffice:
Install as many as you want, never worry about having enough licenses.
There are some governments that seem to be bribed by Microsoft (The state of Nordrhein-Westfalen in Germany is now dumping a perfectly working Linux environment for Windows).
Back on- topic too, that MS is using the customer channel of Win10 to QA the enterprise channel should be obvious from the update policies alone. Users of Win10 Home can
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I think MS is using the customer channel of Win10 to QA the enterprise channel.
There's no mere 'I think' about it. They've openly admitted as much. First it gets dog-fooded by MS employees, then Insiders, then home consumers generally, and finally Enterprise customers.
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as their product is far too badly made and they do not have the technological expertise to stay on top of things.
I wonder if anyone inside of Microsoft truly knows the entire "Windows" product anymore... if they don't have someone like that, eventually, a middle management decision will end up bringing about an Apocalypse within Windows at some future time. We see them dancing around with sub-apocalyptic, but disastrous, features constantly now.
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I am wondering the same thing. I think management at MS may stupidly believe that having the source code is the same as having expertise how everything works. This would nicely explain why they add features like mad, but have serious issues finding and fixing problems. Of course, adding features makes the whole mess worse....
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I wouldn't mind constant updates, so long as they actually worked. The problem as I see it is that Microsoft are trying to use the same workflow they've always used, just with a shorter release cycle.
This is the reason we used to wait for service packs
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This autoupdating crap means that any given morning, my box may be broken
True, I have not used windows in any fashion many years, including work.
But RHEL (my work workstation) is on the auto-update bandwagon. For the last few updates DRI had to be disabled (no hardware acceleration in X) on some machines until the a recent update. This fix was applied due to the bluetooth vulnerability that happens a year or two ago. So far not anywhere near as bad as windows, but the big distros seem to be moving in the same direction also
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> This autoupdating crap means that any given morning, my box may be broken in very strange ways, with little if any perceivable benefit
--Seriously, everyone should have full bare-metal backups going 3x/weekly by now. AOMEI and VEEAM provide free-as-in-beer software for this, and both are also capable of restoring to different hardware (think VM, or hard-drive-to-SSD.) And 2TB USB3 hard drives are under $90. Search for "2tb silicon power usb3".
--I haven't trusted Win10 since very early on. You would
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Shut up, retail market, crash test dummy, do your job, provide your privacy, a let the computer we own that you bought, find the faults in the software so we don't pay penalties to the corporations if their corporate version windows crashes. After years of this shite, do you not yet realise how little of a shite M$ gives about you, as far as they are concerned, shut the fuck up and hand over the money, until you pay monthly rent piss off, well no, stay as test M$'s shitty software at your own cost, bwa hah
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My theory is that their programmers are so filled with self hatred and shame that they drink heavily while at work.
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It's not so much that Microsoft doesn't trust users, it's that Windows programs used to go wild and crazy with changing file associations every time they were run, so Microsoft clamped down on it and made it a privileged operation to avoid letting definitely-a-media-player-and-not-spyware.exe grab the associations for every single file extension every time the user started it. (See also, the way default browsers are now set.)
The side effect is that setting file associations is now a complicated pain in the
Whats the odds... (Score:2)
...installing spyware for gov would break things? How many users will through their hands up and just go with MS defaults?
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Okay, another attempt at a joke. (Score:1)
The U.S. Association of Clap Germs, USACG, objects to that as an offensive, disrespectful comparison. Clap germs claim to be far nicer than Microsoft.
This was not the first time there has been that kind of objection. Multiple Sclerosis germs [scientificamerican.com] have objected to Microsoft sometimes being abbreviated as MS.
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Windows [not 10] is the same. It's only 10 that has this weird fetish with forcing updates on you.
Honestly, just pull the rip the update service out and run it once a month to update, then nuke it again.
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So literally, "fuck home users", which is a number measured in billions in total, yes with a B. Well done.
Luckily at this point in time, most home users get it and try to avoid win10, which is being forced on them as a matter of routine by MS. How long this resistance can last with lack of availability of win7 in retail is anyone's guess, but it's holding remarkably well considering almost total lack of availability of the said product to an average home user.
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I sometimes wonder how much of that 2014 QA axing funding has been used to find the PR efforts.
...and nothing of value was lost (Score:2, Insightful)
Use VLC!
less BS/ads and sometimes works with broken files.
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"I see you're trying to download VLC. Use Microsoft Cloud Player instead, it's more secure."
INSTALL ANYWAY (In light grey type)
USE MCP (default option, in dark text)
So I just need iCloud to prevent automatic updates (Score:5, Funny)
That's cool. I knew that eventually iCloud would be good for SOMETHING.
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On and on (Score:2)
Setting default program associations is something that's been in Windows for 20-something years
This, btw, was the single biggest wow factor for Macs for PC people -- how in god's name does the OS know which program to open for a given file?
Wow that was neat when it appeared on PCs! People forget, or more and more simply weren't born yet.
As for why it's broken, probably not enough testing on their virtualization of all you do into their cloud, scannable by them for advertising, and reporting to the government, because of obscure permissions you click tbrougb on page 127 of their licensing.
At this point if you told me (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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8.1 / Server 2012R2 suffered from an OS with an identity crisis:
Good kernel improvements under the hood, good improvements to some of the utilities (task manager, added Win+x / Right click start button menu)
But completely fucked up others: Start "menu" designed for tablets even though the OS was only used on desktops/laptops, half the control panel functionality designed for a phone, the rest for Windows 95; random notifications on your SERVER OPERATING SYSTEM saying "Tap here to change your settings".
But i
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BTW, look into "Windows 9".
Yeah it exists.
It's 8.1 with a full Win7 shell on top.
Best of both worlds.
Breaking Win32 is a bug? (Score:2)
Overheard at the Microsoft bar... (Score:5, Insightful)
(Windows ME) "I will remain forever champion as the Worst Microsoft Operating System!"
(Windows 10) "Hold my beer."
The Year of the Linux Desktop; brought to you by Windows Update.
Re:Overheard at the Microsoft bar... (Score:5, Funny)
(Windows ME) "I will remain forever champion as the Worst Microsoft Operating System!"
(Windows 10) "Hold my beer."
Microsoft BoB: "Pfft. Amateurs."
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MS-Dos-4.0 and Windows 1,0.... Now those are freak's, that they should have aborted.
Windows ME affected millions. It would be a lot easier to agree with you if MS-DOS/Windows 1.0 had a similar impact. That was hardly the case, as most people have never heard of Windows prior to 3.x
Not Apple to blame (Score:3, Insightful)
> It's not immediately clear whose fault this one is -- it could be Microsoft's, but it's also possible that Apple is to blame.
Nope. If an operating system breaks any userland program, it's always the operating system which should be blamed.
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NO! Are you really trying to tell us the anti-virus shit of yesterday that hooked into undocumented* APIs of the OS to do their "magic"** weren't the problem? Do you really expect that the OS should provide everything it ever provided and not patch bugs that your "userland program" abuse? You know what, Microsoft actually tried to do that when possible in the past _IF_ the program was important enough which have created problems.
(* undocumented for a reason, things Linux would change from version to version
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Not sure if you are sarcastic or not... No modern kernel have been proven 100%, not even seL4 which have been formally verified (though that is just a bare micro-kernel without drivers and network/storage stacks).
That Microsoft had to bend backwards for the "anti"virus people _is_ however a bad thing.
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> It's not immediately clear whose fault this one is -- it could be Microsoft's, but it's also possible that Apple is to blame.
Nope. If an operating system breaks any userland program, it's always the operating system which should be blamed.
Not necessarily - if an application has hard-coded checks for os versions and no smarts to deal with a newer/unexpected version, that is 100% an application problem, not the OS itself.
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Nope. If an operating system breaks any userland program, it's always the operating system which should be blamed.
Tell that to Apple. They've always maintained the attitude of "We'll change the OS however we please and it's up to app developers to keep up."
IMO Apple wouldn't be doing nearly as well as they are if Microsoft hadn't fucked up just so utterly badly with Windows 10. No matter how bullshit their hardware gets, they're still in the lead cause OSX isn't as much of a clusterfuck as Windows is.
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Nope. If an operating system breaks any userland program, it's always the operating system which should be blamed.
Tell that to Apple.
Only on Slashdot could the trainwreck that is Windows 10 have a response blaming Apple.
Tell that to Microsoft, they'll feel much better now that they realize it isn't their fault.
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In Windows Land, almost every app in existence throws a UAC prompt on installation. Just sayin'.
Remember, this is a culture where it used to be acceptable to throw config files directly into the root of C: or the Windows folder.
Wow that guy really gets around (Score:2)
Man, that bad IT consultant must be taking care of more Windows 10 systems than I thought!
Continuous fuckup (Score:1)
Bugs as a service
What do they do with each release? (Score:2)
What about the Insiders? (Score:2)
My personal laptop is now d
That's a rather misleading statement. (Score:3, Interesting)
> Setting default program associations is something that's
> been in Windows for 20-something years
This is... ok, not exactly outright wrong, but at least misleading.
I mean, yes, twenty-some years ago, Windows had the ability to set program associations. But that implementation is not in any way related to the current one, except in the most general "there's a way to set program associations" sense that applies just as well to other operating systems.
Microsoft's first implementation of this in Windows was in winfile.exe, which was deeply deprecated in Windows '95 and does not exist at all in any recent version of Windows. The second iteration, in the first version of Windows Explorer, involved the Windows registry and was somewhat more complicated in its implementation but still conceptually similar to the first version: for any given filename extension, you could specify one program that would be used to open it; and that was it. This got redone when Windows Explorer went through its little identity crisis ("Of course it's integrated with the web browser..." "What? Web browser? No, no, no."), leaving a legacy of associations based on things other than the filename extension (in addition to the ones that are based on extension), and at some point gained the ability for programs to register themselves at install time as _capable_ of handling a given file format, so the "Open With..." context menu could offer multiple options. Then the "set program access/defaults" wizard was added to let people specify which of the options should get the double-click action for certain important formats and tasks. That implementation, or a descendant of it, still exists in Windows 7 (I think; unless it was redone another time that I didn't notice) but was never ported over to Eight/Ten, which have their _own_ implementations of file associations, which have gone through changes repeatedly because, frankly, they're unnecessarily complex and thus buggy.
But yeah, sure, just say this is a feature that's been there for twenty years and just suddenly broke unexpectedly. Reality is overrated.
Endless abuse.. (Score:2)
I'm constantly astounded by how much abuse by Microsoft, people (and corporations) will put up with. That abuse being endless "updates" that break systems, and the spyware aspects of the turd_in_the_punchbowl that is Windows 10. I spent 20 years dealing with the insanity that is Microsoft as a sysadmin, but when I retired in 2010, I decided I was done with anything Microsoft. Watching these endless stories about YET another broken "update" from Microsoft makes me endlessly glad I escaped from the MS ecosyst
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Practical alternatives are missing. If orgs see the alternatives such as Mac or Linux work successfully for similar orgs, they'd be happy to switch.
Various local governments in Germany tried to go Linux on their desktops, but it flopped in practice. Familiarity and compatibility seem to trump quality.
Granted, there are rumors M$ sabotaged Germany's efforts, but either way the outcome is that the experiment ap
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Practical alternatives are missing. If orgs see the alternatives such as Mac or Linux work
I hear this all of the time. Wrong. The buy in, the job security for IT departments - imagine what would happen if we ran Macs.
I can tell you what would happen. We had an army of PC support people, probably 1 for every ten Windows machines. I supported Macs, probably a hundred or more, and did it only on a part time basis.
The Windows centric IT departments don't want to lose their people, and there ya go.
There is simply no software that can be made for Windows that cannot be made for Mac or Linux.
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"Can be", yes. But until enough do it, it's not financially worth it for any ONE company to switch. It's the Network Effect, sometimes called Metcalfe's law.
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Obsolescence Effort Entropy Pattern (Score:2)
I noticed a general M$ pattern since roughly a decade ago. M$ tends to not outright remove old tools/features over time, but rather makes them incrementally harder to use or install. This is both server-side and desktop.
For example, if you upgrade to a newer version of Windows, some prior features don't work out of the box. After Googling around, you can usually find a fix, but it takes time, such as installing old drivers and adding something into the Registry.
Thus, M$ can technically say they support thei
No one noticed the SEEK bar REAL issue? (Score:3)
It's Media Player. The SEEK bar is missing on "specific files" - Or, rather, specific files triggered this "feature"
Now Media player is like F(*^(& YouTube, where you can't do anything but Pause and Play as your rights as a consumer are eroded. The ONLY reason to have flags in the media player so you can't seek through it is to ensure that you have to watch the full video, which is something that content creators want over us.
I never thought they'd push this crap all the way to our desktop though.
GrpA
I think MS has lost control of their product (Score:4, Insightful)
As in they have managed to make it complex enough and have sacked or driven away enough good engineers that they really cannot make work well anymore. Sure, windows never worked very well, but this is a new quality of bad.
Now, what do you do when you stupidly have let one OS maker get a quasi-monopoly and that maker loses it?
Wine for Windows? (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe it's time to port Wine to Windows, so WIndows 10 users can run Win32 applications...
Only use M$ (Score:2)
I am a happy Linux user. (Score:1)
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I may well be a happy Linux user, and every time I see reports like this, I am glad that I switched 2 years or something ago. That said. WTF is MS doing? This is so unacceptable for those that rely heavy on Windows for actual work. I don't care how much you game, as these issues are of no concern. Yet... If you make a living, using Windows?? WTF Micro-Snot !!
Stockholm Syndrome
rely heavy on Windows for actual work (Score:2)
>> rely heavy on Windows for actual work
That is so wrong on so many levels.
Don't do that.
Par for the course (Score:3)
A friend of mine uses Office 2003 because she paid for it, and it does everything she needs. She called me up last month saying Word and Excel kept saying they were expiring. When I investigated, a Windows 10 semi-annual update had installed the Office 365 trial, and changed the Office file associations from her permanently licensed Office 2003 to the subscription-based trial.
Clue to Microsoft: The OS is supposed to be a productivity tool for me, not an advertising platform for you.
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Clue to Microsoft: The OS is supposed to be a productivity tool for me, not an advertising platform for you.
Dude. You exist in the wrong reality. You are thinking that Windows is a product designed to allow you to be productive. You also appear to be under the delusion that Microsoft is in the business of providing software.
Absolutely not.
Microsoft is an *American* company. American companies are in the business of making money. It doesn't matter if the excuse for making money is cars, software, massage services, etc. The only thing that matters is making money. The product being sold? Doesn't matter. What matter
Write your Congress Critter (Score:2)
Write your Congress Critter and get them all up in Microsoft's business again. Windows 10 is entirely unfair. Microsoft should get a hard time since they're giving all of us a hard time.
Notepad is 64bit on 64 bit windows (Score:2)
"So if you want certain files to always open in Notepad, for example, you're currently out of luck"
So suspect the OP has no idea what they are talking abou,t
More and more Bricks falling out of the Window(s) (Score:2)
For me, I first noticed it when the Calculator (yes, the Basic function of a computer) wouldn't open, and I had to download an older version from XP so I could have that functionality again.
Next, the Calendar, Notepad, the "Alarms and Clock" and now anything Media-related (editor, player, etc)...
Sheesh, M$! Get your Stuff together here! You want to change Windows OS to a "Service" and This happens? If you ever wonder why people Don't want to go that way, just review your product feedback on these issues, a
the best one can hope for... (Score:1)
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Put drive in sled.
Offload user data (if any).
Wipe drive.
Install a real OS and software.
Restore user data.
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Put drive in sled.
Offload user data (if any).
Wipe drive.
Install a real OS and software.
Restore user data.
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
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You CAN compile .NET/C# for the "x86" target platform. Which means a Win32 program.