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The New Word Processor Wars: A Fresh Crop of Productivity Apps Are Trying To Reinvent Our Workday (geekwire.com) 193

Nearly 30 years after Microsoft Office came on the scene, it's in the DNA of just about every productivity app. Even if you use Google's G Suite or Apple's iWork, you're still following the Microsoft model. But that way of thinking about work has gotten a little dusty, and new apps offering a different approach to getting things done are popping up by the day. GeekWire: There's a new war on over the way we work, and the old "office suite" is being reinvented around rapid-fire discussion threads, quick sharing and light, simple interfaces where all the work happens inside a single window. In recent years, the buzzwords in tech have been "AI" and "mobile." Today, you can add "collaboration" to that list -- these days, everybody wants to build Slack-like communication into their apps.

For notes and docs, there's Quip, Notejoy, Slite, Zenkit, Notion and Agenda. For spreadsheets, there's Bellevue, Wash.-based Smartsheet, as well as Airtable, Coda and, although it's a very different take on the spreadsheet, Trello. The list goes on seemingly ad infinitum, largely thanks to the relative ease with which developers can launch software in the cloud. "Work has totally changed," said Aaron Levie, the co-founder and CEO of Box, the online storage company that is building its strategy around unifying data and messaging from a dizzying mix of cloud apps. "Employees were lucky to have two, three, five modern applications in the 90s. Now they have almost unlimited ways of being productive."

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The New Word Processor Wars: A Fresh Crop of Productivity Apps Are Trying To Reinvent Our Workday

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  • Never heard of 'em (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bluegutang ( 2814641 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @12:33PM (#57748096)

    I've never heard of any of these apps. Do they do anything that currently existing apps don't? Or is this a slashvertisement?

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @12:43PM (#57748176)

      Yes! They integrate messaging so you have to use whatever messaging system + interface they think you should! And they're in the cloud so they can spy on you! But you can do everything in one window, just like the good old days of single-tasking workstations! Retro style!

      • by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @12:48PM (#57748206) Homepage Journal

        Yes! They integrate messaging so you have to use whatever messaging system + interface they think you should!

        Ugh...."messaging"...I want LESS messaging so I can actually get work done, without an endless breaking of my concentration.

        Collaborate belongs mostly in short meetings, only when it actually serves a purpose.

        I shut off IM most of the time, so I can actually get work done without constant interruptions.

        • Not to mention that I don't want Yet Another Messaging Program that can't talk to all the other messaging programs that I "have" to run to connect with people.

          • by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @01:22PM (#57748408) Homepage Journal

            Not to mention that I don't want Yet Another Messaging Program that can't talk to all the other messaging programs that I "have" to run to connect with people.

            You know, I've come to find out that pretty much everyone has email.

            I converse almost exclusively that way.

            It has a better CYA paper trail, is more searchable going back years, etc....than for any IM I've had to try to use.

            It is more asynchronous too to me, than IM, so, it doesn't interrupt me and I can look while on break.

            And email works with email...so, not having to worry about which IM app works with which.

        • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @01:30PM (#57748458)

          You don't understand. A modern economy is composed of a few percent of people who actually do the work, and the rest who "organize," "supervise," "plan," "administer," or similar. You may be part of the former, but if the majority concentrates too hard they might figure out that their purpose is to add to the N in the phrase "I have N people under me."

      • Talk about getting everyone on the same Page...geeze...

    • I've never heard of any of these apps....

      No one has heard of them, yet, oddly (or predictably) there have been Emacs modes to emulate them since the late 80s.

  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @12:35PM (#57748110)

    Now they have almost unlimited ways of being productive

    That would be great, except that it takes an infinite amount of time to evaluate an unlimited number of productivity apps. :-)

  • I might be too curmudgeony here, but every time I find myself having to install a newer version of MS Office I find myself missing the previous one(s) more. In my case it's not even the word processor as much as it is in the spreadsheet though. Has anyone else been bothered by how many times the "Fill" command in Excel has moved in the past 20 years? When I started really using it a lot it was under Edit (Alt-E, F, R for right). Then it was moved to Insert (Alt-I, F, R). Then it was moved somewhere else. Then it got hidden behind ribbons. Now where the hell is it?

    For Fill -> Down it was easy - Ctrl-R. But no standard shortcut has ever existed for Fill -> Right. And playing hide-and-seek with it doesn't make it better either.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      I just don't bother installing a new version. I've got Office 2003 on three of my computers. Does the job as well or better. No ribbon interface, and no missing features that I need.

      Our IT told me that they were unhappy security-wise, but some years back I gave our security guy data as to what exploits there were in the wild with what prevalence, and I convinced him that the data supported my contention that because there are fewer attacks against old Office versions, one is more exposed running new version

    • I might be too curmudgeony here, but every time I find myself having to install a newer version of MS Office I find myself missing the previous one(s) more.

      Brother, I still miss my old version of Nota Bene. I knew all the shortcuts by heart, and it did footnotes and endnotes like a champ.

      Now, my word processor is LaTex and I have a literal onion hanging from my belt.

      • How far we have fallen. In a sight full of hard core Unix users, you seem to be the only one using LaTex how far have we fallen.

        • It's funny, because I was just recently marveling that all the interesting tools support LaTex these days, without there ever having been a fad-adopter period. Just slow steady adoption in the tool backends.

          Lots of stuff uses it. If you use some gui app that has an "export to foo" option, it might be using it! But you won't know unless you're writing some sort of extension, because nobody cares.

          It holds the same position that Postscript once held! Except that Postscript got noticed more for it in that earli

        • by rnturn ( 11092 )

          ``you seem to be the only one using LaTex how far have we fallen''

          Emacs/make/LaTeX is my goto toolset for creating documents that are supposed to last (i.e., technical documentation for systems, software, and procedures, etc.) and LibreOffice for crap that I have to share with others (via ".doc" format). I tried--really, really tried--to do large bits of documentation using Word back when using master documents was supposed to be the way to deal with large documents but after a week of wasted time I said

    • It sounds like you want to have stable function key access for all the features, which was one of the awesome features of WordPerfect. I remember the templates that everyone taped above their function keys. I even had a keyboard with a built-in template holder that included templates for WordPerfect and several other popular programs of the day.

      The problem now is that everything is mouse based. The majority of users never learn keyboard shortcuts, so the shortcuts aren't so short.

      • by NormalVisual ( 565491 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @01:52PM (#57748584)

        It sounds like you want to have stable function key access for all the features, which was one of the awesome features of WordPerfect.

        And one of the others was "Reveal Codes". It made child's play of figuring out what unprintable dreck was screwing up your document.

        • by crow ( 16139 )

          Alt-F4 for the win!

        • Reveal Codes was necessary because WordPerfect was really dumb about placing those codes.
          In any nontrivial document you'd end up with incorrectly nested codes, start codes whose end code had been deleted, multiple identical (or worse, different) codes applied to the same bit of text etc. You could spend hours cleaning up the mess WP made.

          Then Word came along, and all these problems went away because Word had far better handling of code placement. The result was that you didn't need Reveal Codes any more: al

    • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @01:18PM (#57748384)
      This problem extends to Windows as well. When Microsoft tried to get everyone to switch to Metro apps, they moved a lot of Windows configuration settings to the Metro-like Settings dialog. These were settings which had been in the same place since Windows 2000, so every IT person knew where it was. When they changed it, not only did every IT person have to learn the new location, but every online instruction guide was immediately made obsolete. Then people rebelled against Metro so Microsoft moved some of the settings back. Except their hearts weren't really into it, so now Windows is left with its configuration settings in two different places - in the Metro-like Settings (Windows key=>gear icon), and Control Panel.

      The solution to this is simple. Let the user select the layout. If you want to add a snazzy new Ribbon interface, knock yourself out. But there should be a simple menu option which lets you easily and immediately select "Layout - Office 97 classic, Office 2003 (bubbly), Office 2007 (with ribbons), Office 2013 (with rearranged buttons), Office 2016 (I don't know what's new because I haven't yet found the buttons I lost track of in 2013), custom." Then each user can easily and immediately select the UI layout that works best for them. But it seems like UI designers' egos can't stand the idea of people not using the snazzy new interface they designed. So they force everyone to use the new interface with no way to revert to the old one.

      And it's not just Microsoft. Google has been vacillating between allowing or blocking Dark Mode in its Android apps (it's currently blocked). This isn't even a user preference thing. OLED displays use more power when displaying white, which seems to be the predominant theme with Google's apps. So switching to Dark Mode can add several hours of battery life. It's a functional change which objectively impacts the usability of many devices. But some Google designer with a stick up his/her ass can't stand the thought of people using the apps in a way that looks different from the way they designed it to look so keeps getting Dark Mode blocked.

      Clue to designers: Your design is not successful when you force people to use it. Your design is successful when you give people a choice and they willingly choose your design.
      • This problem extends to Windows as well.

        Don't get me started on that shit-show. I need to bring an air sickness bag with any time I have to deal with an install of Server 12 or Server 16 for the first time - who the fuck thought those default layouts were useful or sane? The MS engineers that signed off on those should be beaten, starved, gorged, starved, beaten, hanged, quartered, duct-taped back together, drawn again, and then burned at the stake for good measure. I'm pretty sure the default layout violates some part of the Geneva Conventio

    • I had a server that needed Office 97. This server has been upgraded time and time again, running Office in 2017 I was amazed on how fast that loaded I clicked on the icon and the app was running awaiting my input.

      However I had this server so protected and locked down because of that. Because Office 97 is a security nightmare. In essence it came out before people knew how to take advantage of buffer overflows, and macros were enabled by default. Over time a good portion of Office is just security features,

    • by Anonymous Coward

      I haven't installed a modern Excel in forever. The last one I have is 2003. The height of MS Office.
      The Ribbon-crap is pushing me away from it even more so. Fuck that worthless retard-UI. I don't care about tablet babbies, I want to Get Things Done.
      The funniest thing is Microsofts OWN research pointed this out and they TOTALLY ignored it! Toolbars and context menus are vastly superior to Ribbon with ease and sheer functionality contained in them.
      Ribbon was developed for one group of people and one g

    • Your complaints about fill down are right on. (And I wondered what happened to "fill right".) Furthermore, have you tried simply scrolling through an Excel spreadsheet? It used to be that you'd press the down arrow, and the focus cell would move down ward in a predictable, one cell at a time, visual sequence. Now the page blinks, flies down x-hundred cells, and stops randomly. You really get the idea that Microsoft wants Excel to seem futile and irrelevant. And by the way, the ribbons still really, really s
      • And by the way, the ribbons still really, really suck.

        Yes. Yes they do.

        I cannot comment on the current state of Multiplan, err, Excel (yes, I remember when Microsoft rebranded Multiplan) since I abandoned when the ribbon was pushed on us and have only ever used LibreOffice since (unless I am doing Pandas in a notebook).

    • Yeah the "ribbon bar only UI" is shit. i.e. Resizing the window hides/shows buttons. At least with the main menu bar all options are always visible so can learn where menu entries are.

      Office on OSX / macOS is nice in that you get BOTH a menu AND ribbon bar so YOU get to pick what works for you. It's too bad MS doesn't have a clue about good UI design.

      I too noticed there is less emphasis on hotkeys / shortcuts now too. Thank God AutoHotKey exists so can automate some of this crap.

    • by J-1000 ( 869558 )

      Maybe they realize power users are stuck with the product regardless and are focusing on luring and retaining the next generation of users. You may complain about Excel changing things around, but it probably pales in comparison to switching to a competing product altogether, if in fact a suitable replacement even exists.

      I agree about menu jumbling being annoying. Some of the changes in Office products are welcome though. The format painter is nice. The style selector is also great. With the style classes a

      • One of the features I really like with newer Excel versions (compared to 2003) is improved filter options. As well in Word I like built in PDF export with the table of contents and links.

        There was a major step change with 2007 and the introduction of the Ribbon, but after that I thought it was fairly stable afterwards as far as location of functions. On the positive they added more customization of the interface. On the negative they lowered the number of colors to match current trends (leaving functions on

    • Office 2010 was the peak of productive MS Office. Now much time is wasted navigating the horrible UI.

      I use 2010 on the home machines (and Windows 10 with Classic Shell). At work I suffer with Office 365 (it's a pain in the ass all year 'round!).

  • by Only Time Will Tell ( 5213883 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @12:44PM (#57748190)
    I'd love to see a next-gen spreadsheet program that could marry Excel with something like SPSS or Minitab and with Tableau or Cognos. I want a 1-stop program that can handle day to day sheets, but enough power under the hood to do statistical & forecast modeling along with creating executive dashboards/reports.
  • In the old days, people chose tools according to what they needed to do.

    Now, the tool is designed by someone who studied user interfaces, instead of how users interface with the tools, so they feel no compulsion to make it work the way users normally work.

    "rapid-fire discussion threads" tend to be unfocused explosions of verbosity, so that is a bad user interface to model.

  • thanks to the relative ease with which developers can launch software in the cloud

    The flip-side to this is "easy come, easy go". When one starts storing their stuff in somebody else's space, it might go away if the provider closes shop. Even if you are able to download your data, you still need to find another app that can read it.

    For all the grumbling about MS Office, they do a great job with backwards compatibility and offer "read-only" versions of their apps for free.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Hell, what about short-term compatibility with the bazillions of existing MSO docs out there?

      I'm currently evaluating MSO "competitors" in yet another attempt to lose that MS connection in my life, and so far it's not going well. I suspect I'll be stuck with MSO for yet awhile longer.

      And please, no one try to convince me that LibreOffice is "just as good as MSO". (I've tried making that switch multiple times over the years, and it just doesn't work well enough to rely on it as my sole office suite.) If y

    • To be fair, this isn't a recent problem. (The format lock in, not the "stored in the cloud and then the cloud shuts down.") I have stories I wrote when I was young, but since I wrote them in MultiMate for DOS, no modern word processor can translate them into something intelligible. I keep the files around just in case, but will likely never get those files back.

  • M$ Office needs to natively support ODF!
  • Maybe these collaborative things work well for some people, but I can tell you that for software development - even Agile - the lure of tools like these are dangerous. Because faster isn't always better. You can't sacrifice sound engineering principles and system design for speed.

    Full disclosure: I have been working on a project for a year now that has been going on for 2.5 years... that was supposed to release in 6 months originally. The original team that built it has been fired, and we are left holdin

  • I just don't care anymore. I've got appFatigue
    • I just don't care anymore. I've got appFatigue

      If you think that's cool, just wait until you see the new features we're adding to appFatigue 2019, currently in CTP 1.4 !

  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @01:30PM (#57748462)

    "... although it's a very different take on the spreadsheet, Trello"

    It appears that, by "very different take on the spreadsheet", the author means "not useable as a spreadsheet by any stretch of the imagination".

    Has the author never actually used a spreadsheet?

  • The fact this doesn't get a mention is baffling.

  • There is still absolutely nothing that comes close to MS Word when it comes to a WYSIWYG Word processor and as a Review tool for multi-version, multi-author (asynchronous editing, not collaborative, synchronous multi-author editing). And even though Word has been "dealing with it" with cloud features, Sharepoint/365 and whatnot, there is nothing that comes close to Google Docs for collaborative work. ...except maybe git combined with LaTeX. Although for purely synchronous authoring, especially working on ve

  • > "Employees were lucky to have two, three, five modern applications in the 90s. Now they have almost unlimited ways of being productive."

    Sp after having 30 years of (de facto) standardization, we're moving back to 5 billions ways to do anything, all of which are mutually incompatible with each other and all trying to get customer lock-in so that it's harder for people to switch away, and thus forcing everyone to either purchase multiple subscriptions for multiple tools or be stuck.

    How many of these supp

  • by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @02:11PM (#57748750) Journal

    I'm sorry, but the traditional word processor design hasn't "gotten dusty" at all. It's been a pretty established framework for decades because writers need an application that works that way!

    This push to make everything "collaborative" with chat clients and ability for a whole group to add sidebar notes to everything creates a big distraction. A good document needs to be focused on by the person writing it. It can be reviewed after that, and marked up as needed with suggested corrections. But the editor doing the proofreading should ALSO be doing that by him/herself, while he/she can give it the undivided attention it deserves.

    I remember when a lot of people considered it a "feature" when a word processor would take over the whole screen with almost nothing but the text being typed. Writers appreciated that lack of distraction or temptation to click around on menus to try out various features, rather than concentrating on the work at hand.

    I find that even doing regular computer support or troubleshooting, the multiple IM client options just raise my stress levels and make things take twice as long to get completed. People keep barging in, asking for updates on where you're at with something, or for some information on why X or Y is down. I can't see how it would benefit anyone trying to write some technical documentation or anything else, having a whole group constantly interacting and suggesting things while you're trying to concentrate?

    • I am really getting tired of how reactionary Slashdot has gotten over the last couple of years. 90% of new products / ideas discussed are routinely dismissed, with the viewpoint that somewhere back in 1995 things peaked. Have you actually used a collaborative document editor like Quip for more than 2 minutes, and given yourself time to actually use it? I have. Initially I wasn't quite sure what the big use case was, but I'm using it a lot now for: 1) Collaborating on core flow for documents before pretti
  • by grumpy-cowboy ( 4342983 ) on Tuesday December 04, 2018 @03:12PM (#57749136)
    Text files. I trying to use simple text files the more I can (my personal files are 95% text files). Then I export it to PDF, ODF, ... if required.

    I try to use only future proof (25+ years) file formats : text (org-mode, Markdown, LaTeX, ...), PDF, PNG, ...

    This quote resume the way I treat MY data (don't remember where I read it) : I'm using apps against data, not housing my data in an app.

    • by rnturn ( 11092 )

      Kudos for future-proofing your post by using a monospaced typeface. But points off for not limiting the text length to either 72 or 80 characters.

      I like that quote about apps and data. That's going into my `quotes.txt' file.

    • Text files. I trying to use simple text files the more I can (my personal files are 95% text files). Then I export it to PDF, ODF, ... if required.

      I try to use only future proof (25+ years) file formats : text (org-mode, Markdown, LaTeX, ...), PDF, PNG, ...

      This quote resume the way I treat MY data (don't remember where I read it) : I'm using apps against data, not housing my data in an app.

      And apparently you go out of your way to type your internet comments in monospace font as well.

  • In my experience some of this kind of tools may actually improve the productivity. However, the tools themselves tend to be relatively short-lived and/or have terrible data migration. Sometimes it may be that the data structure is too specific to the way the specific tool works. Much of the data stored within tend to get lost when switching to new tools

    I believe that using them for day to day workflow *can* be useful as facilitators as long as any long-term useful information is stored elsewhere in common f

  • `` being productive.''

    If by, "being productive" you mean spending more and more time trying to master all the different so-called "distraction^Wproductivity tools" that different teams--both internal to the organization and the external ones--have decided to use.

  • They didn't. They copied lotus 123 and word-perfect. As they did later with Netscape. They always surfed existing waves....

  • I have been using Libreoffice and formally OpenOffice for decades. It's great software, and the file saves are compressed so they don't take up as much space as .doc and .xls.
    • Actually both .doc and .xls are obsolete formats and have been replaced by .docx and .xlsx a decade ago - these are xml based and compressed as well.

  • None of them comes close to what me and my friends at work can do with orgmode on emacs.

  • As a software developer, I've long argued that the multitude of disjoined apps are a problem. I suggested that operating systems or desktop systems (like KDE and Gnome) provide a framework for services -- not applications -- so users can put together their own working environments, in whatever manners is most efficient for them.

    When you open up a desktop like KDE or Gnome, not only do they work differently but the tools all have cryptic names that tell you little to nothing of what they are useful for. Ea

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