Facebook Employees Are So Paranoid They're Using Burner Phones To Talk To Each Other (nymag.com) 224
Facebook's reputation has only continued to get more sullied in recent weeks, and it's taking a toll on employees. According to a new report, things over at the old FB are, well, kind of grim. From the report: "People now have burner phones to talk shit about the company -- not even to reporters, just to other employees," one former employee said. Another described the current scene as a "bunker mentality," meaning that after nearly two years of continuous bad press some people are, to borrow a phrase, leaning in as hard as they can to cope. "It's otherwise rational, sane people who're in Mark's orbit spouting full-blown anti-media rhetoric, saying that the press is ganging up on Facebook," said the former employee. Further reading: Facebook Employees Are Calling Former Colleagues To Look For Jobs Outside the Company and Asking About the Best Way To Leave.
Paranoia? (Score:5, Insightful)
You're not paranoid if they're actually after you.
Re:Paranoia? (Score:5, Insightful)
The way you wrote it, if someone is after you then it negates your paranoia.
The actual quote is:
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you." — Joseph Heller
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Does that actually negate the GP's point? Symptoms of paranoia aren't really indicative of paranoia if there is a demonstrable threat or attack. Joseph Heller was not writing as a doctor or serious philosopher.
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I think it's a matter of cause-and-effect. If you act paranoid because someone is after you, you don't actually have paranoia. However, someone who does have clinical paranoia could have someone who is going after them (further reading: fallacy fallacy [rationalwiki.org]).
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They're dependent facts [merriam-webster.com], and the relationship does exist by definition.
When someone is "after you" it is no longer a delusion, and also not necessarily excessive or irrational to distrust them.
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When someone is "after you" it is no longer a delusion...
You're assuming that the paranoid person has valid evidence that someone is after them. In that case, yes, it isn't a paranoid delusion, it's a logical conclusion. "Has paranoid delusions" and "someone is after them" can be independent facts, i.e. the paranoid person has no specific evidence about the person that's after them.
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Upthread: "Does that actually negate the GP's point? Symptoms of paranoia aren't really indicative of paranoia if there is a demonstrable threat or attack."
Upthread: "They are independent facts!"
Can be != are.
I'm not going to repeat every premise in the thread simply because people cannot be bothered to read for context.
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The only difference between paranoia and prudence is popularity.
That's just my interpretation though, in catchy sound bite form.
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They way I heard it...
"When everyone is out to get you,
Paranoid is just........good thinking!!"
- Dr. Johnny Fever (WKRP)
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There's also this gem:
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone's trying to kill me!" - Weyoun (Star Trek: Deep Space 9)
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I prefer the form "Even paranoids have real enemies."
However I think this best summarizes my excessively mixed attitude towards Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/group... [facebook.com] (The owner of the group should change the group number (default) to something like "FacebookHatersUsingFacebook".)
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This situation is a deeper example of what that usually implies. It is more than a case of just seeing those that are after you and knowing they are there. Having been a part of the conspiracy, these people know what they are up against.
Their use of a burner may very well be driven by knowledge of the systems and tactics they've been involved in creating. That makes finding that they are using burners a confirmation of sorts of our fears of what those systems are capable of and have actually been used for.
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This situation is a deeper example of what that usually implies. It is more than a case of just seeing those that are after you and knowing they are there. Having been a part of the conspiracy, these people know what they are up against.
Their use of a burner may very well be driven by knowledge of the systems and tactics they've been involved in creating. That makes finding that they are using burners a confirmation of sorts of our fears of what those systems are capable of and have actually been used for.
Posting to undo a mistake in moderating against this post...
Glassdoor (Score:5, Interesting)
Glassdoor just updated their best companies to work for list and Facebook is in the top 10 based on employee feedback. Methinks someone is lying to Glassdoor about their experience at Facebook.
Re:Glassdoor (Score:4, Insightful)
Alternatively, maybe journalists really are full of shit?
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I have to agree. Maybe I am just becoming jaded in my later years, but when I see any 'Best Companies to Work For' list, I just assume it is the list of companies that gave the most money to the author/organization that published the list...
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Alternatively, maybe journalists really are full of shit?
Journolist [politico.com], Gamejournopro's, and so on proves that collusion is true. Being full of shit and pushing an agenda is older then the Spanish-American war.
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Wow! Free dry cleaning and gym! that's about a $20 month value!!
Pros
"Great work-life balance (this depends on teams)" (in 100 reviews)
"Amazing benefits for Full Time Employees including free food, stipends for gym memberships & free dry cleaning" (in 266 reviews)
Cons
"Some teams have poor work life balance" (in 292 reviews)
"It's easy to end up working long hours" (in 67 reviews)
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Glassdoor just updated their best companies to work for list and Facebook is in the top 10 based on employee feedback. Methinks someone is lying to Glassdoor about their experience at Facebook.
That depends, can you tell who said what?
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Both statements can be true, it all depends on where in the company you work.
TFS makes it sounds like the article is about executives and managers, but that won't represent everyone in the company.
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If you worked for Facebook, the world's second largest spy agency, would you post on a web site that Facebook sucks?
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Or maybe Facebook just contributes enough to Glassdoor.
CENSORED (Score:1)
shit, they might be reading this...
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NO CARRIER
OK
Best Way To Leave? (Score:1)
Sorry, you don't ever leave Facebook...
There's no way out of here
When you come in
You're in for good...
People don't talk face to face anymore? (Score:2)
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At least some Facebook employees are convinced that Facebook spies on ambient sound using smartphone microphones, so they don't trust face to face either.
Both (Score:5, Informative)
The media is being unfair to Facebook.
Also, Facebook is terrible and Facebook has taken a very long series of actions that are arrogant and insular. Facebook keeps making big mistakes and Facebook shows no signs of changing what matters.
It's not clear that Facebook even could change its most basic problems:
- it encourages emotional unhealthiness
- its business model is exploitative of Facebook users
- and therefore Facebook is a magnet for trolls who want to exploit users
- we don’t trust Facebook
- we don't want to hear our friends parrot shit they saw on the news (because all it tells us is that our friends haven't learned that the news media is trolling them)
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The media is being unfair to Facebook.
According to a certain political party, facebook IS the media now.
Re:Both (Score:4, Insightful)
The media is being unfair to Facebook.
I have followed media coverage of Facebook closely, and so far I have not read anything unfair. Facebook has continuously abused its position, and shows no sign that it even understands the complaints levied at it at a fundamental level. The battering it is getting currently in the press has been a long time coming, and is doing a lot of good to bring the problems to a wider audience who will hopefully take note and start considering their use of the platform more carefully.
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Yet Facebook is completely voluntary service to use. Someone makes a choice to use facebook. You don't have to use Facebook. So its a retarded argument you are making.
Lots of transactions start out as voluntary and end up being exploitive. Are you saying you don't understand that?
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Not when you agree to a contract or terms of service. Which every user of Facebook does.
So you are saying you don't understand.
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It's fucking voluntary you don't have to use it. If you being abused get the fuck out. What don't you understand!
And what about all the time between when they start exploiting you and when you finally find out about it and leave?
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You know what else is voluntary? A background check for applying for a job or airport TSA scanning. You most likely won't get the job, and for the TSA get felt up by the TSA at best.
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Facebook maintain shadow profiles of people that aren't users. Those people didn't choose to use Facebook but are still fucked over by it.
But that's fine, you go ahead and claim other people are making retarded arguments. I'll let self awareness reach you organically, I'm sure it'll get there eventually.
s'app? (Score:1)
If they were really paranoid, couldn't they just use Whatsapp? I hear that's secure.
Oh wait...
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They're not trying to protect the info from the government. Just from a phone that has FB installed. Just gives you an indication of how hard it is to get the spying to stop, how deep they look at calls and SMS messages and GPS, etc.
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I know that. My point was they're not even using non-FB owned apps (e.g. Snapchat, Signal) to communicate. Because even using the same phone is giving FB too much information.
They know better than we do (Score:5, Insightful)
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Can you please provide the evidence for the first statement that proves it is rational? Specifically, where Facebook stored data for the specific purpose of using it against someone later, and have proven that mal-intent by actually using it against someone later.
It's not that there isn't possibly some justification for a rational fear in all this, but you're stating that they are storing it with the explicit reason of using it
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Oh, come on. That's just tro... oh.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/21... [metro.co.uk]
Press is not ganging up on facebook... (Score:2)
If facebook had not done the entirely stupid and irresponsible things that it looks as if they have done, I doubt if the press would be reporting about the deeds of facebook. Those people mentioned as being in Mark's orbit need to look at themselves for the cause of all the press attention.
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Funny that they were doing the entirely stupid and irresponsible things for years, but they didn't get any attention for it until the Cambridge Analytics "scandal". As soon as the media found out Facebook data was used by the orange man and not just the black man, they went insane...and the insanity hasn't stopped.
BookFace has enough money (Score:2)
to set up Stingray interceptors within their corporate sites, if people want to get any more paranoid. You know, in the interests of national security...
Maybe there’s something to that idea (Score:2)
Just walk away (Score:5, Insightful)
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Step back and visualize the cyclic filtering nature of it.
1) N employees join an organization.
2) Organization is bad in some way.
3) Strong willed, hireable types leave.
4) Repeat until only those afraid to leave are left
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What happened to:
5)??
6)Profit
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Most people spend nearly every penny they make and can't afford a pay cut.
While earning the sort of money Facebook pays? Fuck them then, they should've planned better and lived within their means.
One or the other (Score:2)
"loyalty to leadership at Facebook runs deep" vs "People now have burner phones to talk shit about the company"
Which is it???
End-game for Zuckerbook (Score:2)
The press -is- ganging up on Facebook (Score:5, Interesting)
In a very real sense, that is true. The media have been in a continuous uproar since the 2016 Presidential election and the Brexit vote, because the "wrong side" won, and Facebook is a very convenient target for part of the blame. It's not as if Facebook's business model was any different before 2016; the company has always had slimy business practices. The media simply gave Facebook a free pass up to that point.
It must be enormously frustrating to Zuckerberg and Sandberg to fight this battle, because their political leanings are no doubt on the progressive side, and Facebook fundamentally did nothing different in 2016 than it did in 2012. They can't comprehend why they're suddenly the bad guys. It's just that in the modern world of social media (which they helped to create), when the mob goes hunting for witches, someone has to be thrown on the pyre.
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The media simply gave Facebook a free pass up to that point.
If only. Facebook was a media darling many times. When Musk was threatening to fire anyone that dared cross out Black Lives Matter on the "signature wall" there was no end of praise for the oh so virtuous Facebook. When Facebook was grooming supposedly "conservative" stories out of their news feed an amazing phenomena occurred: a groundswell of admiration for corporate sovereignty and the sanctity of private prerogatives.
Zuckerberg could do himself a lot of good by ginning up more SJW red meat. Go on
Re:The press -is- ganging up on Facebook (Score:4, Insightful)
I see it more as a case of yes you are right, FB has been doing things this way a while. Nothing new. But now some lights have been shined on their behavior and the unacceptable parts of it are on display.
The attention is not because suddenly they are doing worse things. It's because suddenly people are paying attention.
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The question is, "When did people start paying attention?"
The media started paying attention when they found out that average people could communicate to an audience whose size rivaled theirs. They took notice when an average "Joe the Plumber" could expose and then decompose their narrative and spin. The media started paying attention when their power was threatened.
At that point, Facebook had to go.
Re:The press -is- ganging up on Facebook (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess I have a harder time getting into full on tinfoil hat mode over it.
I think the public had a building irritation with FB's policies.
It boiled over when the recent issues since the election started to surface
Media companies see people clicking on FB stories because if pre-existing irritation
Media companies make money.
I find that far more likely than an over arching conspiracy
multiple apology digging motion (Score:2)
Why Zuckerbergâ(TM)s 14-Year Apology Tour Hasnâ(TM)t Fixed Facebook [wired.com] — April 2018
The Apology API is known to be of limited ultimate effect when called in a continuous digging motion.
The bunker is real, and it's spectacular.
Stop being dickish. (Score:2)
saying that the press is ganging up on Facebook
Stop being a dick, maybe? Sometimes the bully deserves to get their ass kicked.
So who has the best burner phones? (Score:2)
Asking for a friend.
We know (Score:2)
We already correlated your location with your burner phone. And then ran facial recognition to confirm it was you.
They know the tracking (Score:2)
Did they chat with their friends doing voice recognition for ads?
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Facebook app (Score:3)
When you choose your burner, be very careful it doesn't have the Facebook app preinstalled.
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Russian trolls
Yeah, it couldn't be just working people that don't like energy poverty. It's mindless Frenchmen doing the bidding of Russian trolls on Facebook.
Re:Gilets jaunes (Score:4, Insightful)
Russian trolls
Yeah, it couldn't be just working people that don't like energy poverty. It's mindless Frenchmen doing the bidding of Russian trolls on Facebook.
Are you trying to say people don't like it when tax breaks for the rich get loaded onto the everyman? Nah, it's gotta be them Russians.
Re:Gilets jaunes (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: Gilets jaunes (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering the ammount of damage, targetted destruction, and graffiti left behind, it has absolutely nothing to do with labour, or taxation.
Anarchists, extremists, and just plain old fashioned assholes always attach themselves to large protests because it gives them an excuse to break shit.
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Considering the ammount of damage, targetted destruction, and graffiti left behind, it has absolutely nothing to do with labour, or taxation.
Anarchists, extremists, and just plain old fashioned assholes always attach themselves to large protests because it gives them an excuse to break shit.
They didn't do that with the tea party protests. Why's that?
Re: Gilets jaunes (Score:2)
Who wants to hang out with granma and grandpa? Those fuckers might break a hip.
I know that the snowflakes have a reputation for being fragile, but I don't think they're THAT fragile ...
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That's less contrary and more corollary.
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There's always a violent group willing and able to join any available protest.
Re:Gilets jaunes (Score:5, Interesting)
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"Russian trolls" is the new online "Racist!" It's a meaningless term that is used to indicate that the person doesn't agree with you.
Once upon a time, the words had a real meaning, but in this age, I literally can't.
Re:Gilets jaunes (Score:4, Funny)
Russians weigh the same as a duck
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Media likes to stir the pot every bit as much as the Russians, and probably conspire (or at least are complicit) with the Russians to stir the shit for ratings. Pretending only one side benefits is why this shit isn't going to end any time soon.
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The problem was that the Russians didn't care which way it swirled, and used a random back and forth motion. The media in America only wants it to swirl to the left.
How would anyone know? (Score:5, Insightful)
Since the point of using a burner phone is not to let people know, how would anyone credibly be able to assess the widespread use of burner phones?
Re:How would anyone know? (Score:5, Funny)
Since the point of using a burner phone is not to let people know, how would anyone credibly be able to assess the widespread use of burner phones?
Simple. Just load the Facebook app on the burner phones and ... Oh, wait.
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Since the point of using a burner phone is not to let people know, how would anyone credibly be able to assess the widespread use of burner phones?
By asking them? This isn't a physics experiment, it's an employee saying, "A bunch of coworkers told me they do this."
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Since the point of using a burner phone is not to let people know, how would anyone credibly be able to assess the widespread use of burner phones?
By asking them? This isn't a physics experiment, it's an employee saying, "A bunch of coworkers told me they do this."
First, assume a spherical burner phone.
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By a sudden increase in the quantity of cheap phones discovered in the garbage cans at FaceBook?
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how would anyone credibly be able to assess the widespread use of burner phones?
Be a Facebook employee. Have eyes and ears.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Boiling AIDS infested Lipton tea produces Lipton tea.
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You need parental controls.
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This situation must be reminiscent of living in communist countries.
Enjoy!
Just so we understand each other, you're saying that the paranoia among employees in literally one of the largest Capitalist companies in the world is like living in a Communist country?
You do realize this sullies Capitalism even more than it does Communism, right? This implies that the power of the Corporation is so great that it rivals or even exceeds that of the nation-state...
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I can message any friend I have with ease.
Friends don't let friends Facebook.
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Haha! Doing that. Changed jobs. Roll the 401K over. Check is in the mail during the dip.
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Well, torturing their children in front of them isn't happening on a large scale either.
If you don't like what's happening to you there's always scope for violence. That might get you killed but hey, you're the one claiming something's worse than being killed.