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Regular Windows 10 Users Who Manually Look For Updates May End Up Downloading Beta Code, Microsoft Says (techspot.com) 115

Posted by msmash from the for-the-record dept.
In addition to relying on Windows Insiders, employees, and willing participants for testing updates, Microsoft is pushing patches before they are known to be stable to regular users too if they opt to click the "check for updates" button on their own, the company said. From a report: In a blog post by Michael Fortin, Corporate Vice President for Windows, it is made clear that home users are intentionally being given updates that are not necessarily ready for deployment. Many power users are familiar with Patch Tuesday. On the second Tuesday of each month, Microsoft pushes out a batch of updates at 10:00 a.m. Pacific time on this day containing security fixes, bug patches, and other non-security fixes. Updates pushed out as part of Patch Tuesday are known as "B" release since it happens during the second week of the month.

During the third and fourth weeks of the month are where things begin to get murky. Microsoft's "C" and "D" releases are considered previews for commercial customers and power users. No security fixes are a part of these updates, but for good reasoning. Microsoft has come out to directly say that some users are the guinea pigs for everyone else. In some fairness to Microsoft, C and D updates are typically only applied when a user manually checks for updates by clicking the button buried within Settings. However, if end users really wanted to be a part of testing the latest features, the Windows Insider Program is designed exactly for that purpose. Further reading: Windows 10's 'Check for updates' button may download beta code.
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Regular Windows 10 Users Who Manually Look For Updates May End Up Downloading Beta Code, Microsoft Says More

Regular Windows 10 Users Who Manually Look For Updates May End Up Downloading Beta Code, Microsoft Says

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  • JFC... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 14, 2018 @03:54PM (#57805220)
    How pathetic. Give it up and switch to Linux.

    • Re: (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      YES. It's here. THE year of the LINUX DESKTOP!!

    • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

      by nehumanuscrede ( 624750 )

      Will do just as soon as you can point me to the Linux release that will run all of the following:

      Rhinocerous 3D
      Keyshot
      Adobe CC ( Full Suite )
      Capture One Pro
      Zbrush
      Painter 2018

      The above + MS Win 10 bullshit is why I'm still running Windows 7 Ultimate.
      ( At least Maya has a Linux version )

      • I'll switch to Windows just as soon as you can point me to the windows release that will run the following:

        Synopsys Design Compiler
        Primetime
        VCS
        Spyglass-LP
        Jasper Gold

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Point with this kind of against-Linunx arguments is that about 99% of the normal users do not use that applications, and probably not even heard about the most of them.

        So - For a small part of the user base indeed keep using Windows is needed. However, the overwhelming majority of users could use Linux without missing out anything. This is even more true since more and more applications are "on-line" and cloud based, and as such it does not matter on what operating system you are working on.

    • It will prolly be another year for me.
      I want Proton to simmer for a while before I jump in to use it.

      • it is made clear that home users are intentionally being given updates that are not necessarily ready for deployment

        All Windows 10 users are given updates that are not necessarily ready for deployment, that's how Windows 10 updates work.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Suren Enfiajyan ( 4600031 )
      Unfortunately neither is Linux ready for desktop [altervista.org] or even worse.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rtb61 ( 674572 )

      How pathetic?!?, I was thing more along the lines of "Muther fuckin' puss bucket, what the fuck".

    • Mac OS is not too bad.

  • Windows was always beta code. No news here. (Score:3, Informative)

    by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 ) on Friday December 14, 2018 @03:55PM (#57805226)
    They've always used their customers as beta testers. That shit started at least as early as the MS-DOS days.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

      Except that with Windows 10 it seems to be worse than it have been in a long time.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by antdude ( 79039 )

      Lots of companies are doing this! :(

    • Well I've been pretty happy with the stability of Windows 7. OTOH my time with Windows 10 hasn't been nearly as pleasant.Microsoft are clearly getting worse even if it's just the QA

    • They've always used their customers as beta testers. That shit started at least as early as the MS-DOS days.

      A nice quip on the quality of MS software in general, but not constructive to the discussion. There are orders of magnitude differences in not only the quality of software but the actual business practices of MS between the DOS days and now.

      • Oh, well, no proof or evidence of that is needed for your claim at all. You can just say it and *POOF* it's true. They should just get the benefit of the doubt after decades of evil since they've been so good lately, adopting Bash and OpenSSH, huh, Bill? Hey everybody, did you hear ? M$ is awesome now, Thegarbz told me so! I swear... your next post will ask me for links evincing that Microsoft has ever been evil... Pathetic.

        • Oh, well, no proof or evidence of that is needed for your claim at all.

          The sky is blue. I'm not providing proof of that either. I'm just assuming a minimal knowledge on the subject matter.

          • Yeah, and "the sky is blue" is every bit as self-evident as "Microsoft is a bunch of good people now." ... dumbfuck. Sure. Yeah. Keep sellin it. Play those two statements off as being equally credible. It'll totally work for anyone 8 years old and under without a shred of reason. Ever heard the statement "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" ? Well... "the sky is blue" isn't going to cut it when making rainbow & unicorn statements about Microsoft, dumbass. On the 1 to 10 scale of logical

            • "Microsoft is a bunch of good people now."

              What the fuck are you talking about. I never said that in the slightest. In fact given the subject matter at hand what I wrote implied the exact fucking opposite.

              dumbfuck

              Yeah my line to you arsehat. Don't make assumption about others then act like a dick, especially when the assumption is wrong. You look like a fool.

              • That's the lamest attempt at backpedaling I've seen in 2018. You deserve a prize.

                • Wow. Unable to read or understand context and then doubling down on stupidity when you're corrected. You're *actually* an idiot. Okay thanks for letting us know.

                  I'll keep it in mind in the future to use simple words with you.

                  • Okay it was the second-lamest attempt. You've outdone yourself with this additional hand waving. There is still time left in the year for another try. Talk about doubling down. BTW, in the future you have an option not to exchange any words with me, simple or otherwise. I promise I won't mind. However, in any case endless crawfishing won't change the fact you wrote this: "A nice quip on the quality of MS software in general, but not constructive to the discussion. There are orders of magnitude differences i

                    • Cool let's go for a basic English lesson. In english you can't take sentences out of context so let's start with the context:

                      1. An article describing treating current users a beta testers through the remote.
                      2. A post saying that customers have always been beta testers.
                      3. My reply. Now lets analyse that one in detail:
                      a) "A nice quip on the quality of MS software in general" A general sense of agreement that you're pandering to the crowd on the quality of windows software, not a disagreement of the fact (your

                    • *Yawn* more hand waving. Start a puppet show, instead.
  • water is wet. Stay tuned to know how wet is it.

  • Are you kidding me? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    That is totally not cool.

  • Microsoft wants Windows consumer customers ... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by QuietLagoon ( 813062 ) on Friday December 14, 2018 @04:02PM (#57805286)
    ...to go away. There is no other explanation.

    • Re:Microsoft wants Windows consumer customers ... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 14, 2018 @05:46PM (#57805884)

      Microsoft wants Windows consumer customers ...to go away. There is no other explanation.

      They aren't treating their enterprise customers all that well either, just different forms of abuse.

      All previous client versions of Windows had the Professional edition equal to Enterprise in all but the licensing component, otherwise they were the same.
      With 10, Professional is closer in features to the Home edition and lacks much of what one expects from a domain attached system and group policy, countless policies that no longer work in any edition except Enterprise.

      Then there is the licensing. Holy fuck.
      Windows Server is now licensed per core available, and has a minimum purchase of 2 CPUs and 16 core. That isn't 16 core per CPU either, it's 16 total.

      So 2 CPUs at 24 core each? You need to purchase 4 licenses at full windows server pricing.
      4 CPUs at 12 core each? That's 8 copies of windows you buy for that one installation.

      Plus CALs

      Want to get that Enterprise license for Windows 10 to use with that fancy server? That's a minimum 10 client license purchase.

      So 4 copies of windows server and 10 copies of windows 10, added to $180 per user, paid every year.

      Want to expand to two physical server systems? Basically double that.
      8 copies of windows server, $180 per user per server, and your 10 copies of Windows 10 still even if you went from 1 to 2 PCs.

      That enterprise licensing code I mentioned? It's called KMS, and you don't enter keys or anything like that.
      You are required to run (and license!) a dedicated KMS server on your domain. Any new OS gets turned up, it requests a license from that server, which sends the request to Microsoft, and it goes on your next months bill pro-rated of course.
      It sounds easier than managing license keys, and yea it certainly is, but requires opening a line of credit with Microsoft and sending in about the same amount of corporation registration paperwork as it takes to get a damn EV certificate from godaddy :P

      Oh, and if you don't go the enterprise edition and KMS license route and just stick with Professional and "make due", well then we don't get any more control over windows updates than you do at home.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        The parent post has major factual errors. As much as I would also deride Microsoft's behaviours as of late, they're not quite as horrifyingly bad as listed above. To address:

        -Windows client has had versions above Professional since Vista over 10 years ago. These versions have always had extra capabilities such as DirectAccess VPN and BitLocker encryption. Enterprise/Ultimate features have occasionally drifted down to Professional over the releases since.

        -Featureset in Professional is still far above Home, a

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dwywit ( 1109409 )

          Thanks. It's difficult enough to find your way through the windows 'ecosystem' - server and client versions - without outright lies making things worse. The zealots and fanbois on both sides make life difficult for those of us trying to get our jobs done.

          I like linux - a lot. But I'm not stupid enough to believe it's a viable replacement for corporate desktop systems, or even small business. That said, the day someone can make WSUS work on a linux server (without going through an emulation layer), I'll be f

      • well then we don't get any more control over windows updates than you do at home.

        One big key thing I will mention (and also the reason why I would not wish Windows 10 Home on my worst enemy), at the very least the Pro version allows you to switch to the semi-annual branch whereas the Home users are locked on the Targeted branch. Also Home users can't delay feature updates for 365 days or security updates for 30 days like Pro users can.

        It may sound like nothing but lip service, but with current MS practices Windows 10 Pro is basically a minimum requirement for any computer you want to ha

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Well, my plan is to go to a Zen-2 next year with a gaming-only Win10. No browsing, no email, no nothing. For that I have a Linux-machine that I can actually trust to not send all my personal stuff and behavior to the vendor and that I can trust to not screw me over at any and all updates.

  • Stupid is as stupid does. (Score:4, Funny)

    by Sponge Bath ( 413667 ) on Friday December 14, 2018 @04:02PM (#57805292)

    Microsoft's updates are like a box of chocolates...

  • Now, you don't even have to sign up for it!

    Excuse me, but if you are using Windows 10 because it is production level code which means no surprises - shouldn't you always get production level code?

    And my dad asks why I don't trust Windows 10.

  • At this point (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nehumanuscrede ( 624750 ) on Friday December 14, 2018 @04:09PM (#57805354)

    I think most Windows 10 users are doing everything they can to disable any and all updates of any kind considering Microsoft's track record recently.

    • I think *most* Windows 10 users aren't doing anything. A few of the savvy ones however are doing whatever they can do disable / defer updates.

      Remember these are computer users we are talking about. Any idea of logic, thought, intelligence, or capability does not apply to the masses.

  • WTF. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Imazalil ( 553163 ) on Friday December 14, 2018 @04:20PM (#57805434)

    Yeah, undermining people's trust in your OS's security update mechanism is great idea. I really hope someone got a raise for this.

    F*uking hell. What kind of drugs would any semi-self-respecting developer have to be on to suggest this, and gets it ok'd by multiple managers.

    Can we bring public stoning back.

    • I am more partial to lynching, but that might bring some racism along for the ride.

    • F*uking hell. What kind of drugs ... Can we bring public stoning back.

      It looks like we've got private stoning all covered so I don't see why not. Just open the WINDOWS and Let the Sun Shine In.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by sconeu ( 64226 )

      What kind of drugs would any semi-self-respecting developer have to be on to suggest this, and gets it ok'd by multiple managers

      I think you have it backwards. Suggested (demanded?) by the manager and reluctantly implemented by the dev.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Indeed.

    • To be fair, what kind of masochists hits the check for updates button in the first place! These users *want* to get screwed.

  • So the rumors are true. (Score:3)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Friday December 14, 2018 @04:21PM (#57805442)

    ... users ... may end up downloading beta code ...

    Microsoft really is trying to be more like Google. :-)

  • Infrequently-used computers (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Mr.Radar ( 764753 ) on Friday December 14, 2018 @04:25PM (#57805462)
    I have a laptop I infrequently use that has Windows 10 (non-Pro) installed on. I boot it up once a month to install updates (so I don't need to wait for update installs when I need to use it for other things) and I always use the "check for updates" button to make sure there aren't any more updates to install. I absolutely do not want beta updates installed on this machine nor would it be good for beta testing them since I hardly use it. This is just giving me more incentive to finally get around to wiping it and putting Linux on it.

    • Not just infrequently used. If I set up a computer for a client or reinstall Windows, I want to hand it back fully patched. To do that, you have to hit that button.

  • "B", "C", "D"? Heck, I'd give them an "F".

  • Yeah. M$. No more update for Windows 10 until you actually finish them. Tested them. Tested again. Tested a third time. Sent to the insiders to let them test it.
    Repeat this process at least 3 times before releasing to the general public.
    I am pretty sure people are getting tired of being your beta testers. Especially when don't listen and release a service pack that delete user data.
    You can't comp out with the "Good, fast, cheap, pick 2" excuse. You have the money so you can make a good fast product if

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DeVilla ( 4563 )

      Vote with your wallet or shut up. You have no other leverage or influence. The rest of these comments are just impotent rage.

      Things could change if people actually cared as much as they complained.

      • I do.
        Kinda hard to vote with my wallet, since I have done that and they are still around.
        I have no say on the work systems.
        Its like voting, your individual power is next to meaningless.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by DeVilla ( 4563 )
          If all (or even half) the people I've seen / heard complain about MS / Apple / Google / etc would do more than just complain, that would not be meaningless. But it doesn't happen. Most folks complain about the inconvenience as if they had no choice.
  • Considering not only big things like the whole data deletion thing (which was shipped despite people flagging it in the Windows Insider reporting app) but little things like Notepad defaulting to creating UTF-8 files with a Byte-Order Mark with its new UTF-8 handling (to be fixed in the next release apparently), it seems Microsoft's internal setup is basically unable to see any issues until after they're shipped. So why not ship things to some normal customers earlier, then? It's a classic Microsoftian work
  • Windows 10 Enterprise is the product; along with Office 365 they lock in business users and bring in revenue for Microsoft. The other versions of W10 are various levels of unpaid alpha testing (Insiders) and unpaid beta testing (Home/Pro). Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC is a red-headed step child that Microsoft begrudgingly has around because it has to.
  • How about you give user's back the ability to fully control their update cycle and clearly liable those updates as beta or release? You literally did that for who knows how many years until M$ decided to take away user choice and started burning users with bad updates often enough that they started to look for ways around the new update cycle.

  • In the last month I've build two machines for my family & loaded up two notebooks for friends. One new gaming desktop which seemed to patch fine & reloaded Win 7 on the older one. The notebooks were from friends who wanted me to cleanup, patch, Windows & load, activate, & patch Office.

    So of course I "check for updates" over & over until all updates are loaded. Does this mean I possibly loaded beta patches? That last notebook was really a POS, some cheap HP from wallymart sub $300. It

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