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Microsoft Operating Systems IT Technology

Windows 10 Will Reserve 7GB of Your Computer's Storage in its Next Major Release So That Big Updates Don't Fail (zdnet.com) 368

Posted by msmash from the inform-the-IT dept.
In the next major release of Windows 10, Microsoft will reserve 7GB of your device's storage to resolve a Windows 10 bug thrown up by Windows Update not checking whether a PC has enough storage space before launching after big updates. From a report: As Microsoft warned ahead of the Windows 10 October 2018 Update, systems that don't have enough space to install Microsoft's 'quality updates' or new versions of the OS will see an error message explaining there is insufficient storage space. That happens because Windows doesn't check if a device has enough space before initializing. Microsoft's current solution is for users to manually delete unnecessary temporary files and temporarily move important files like photos and videos to external storage devices to make enough space for the update. This problem is more acute for devices with little storage capacity, such as many of the cheap 32GB flash-drive PCs on the market today.
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Windows 10 Will Reserve 7GB of Your Computer's Storage in its Next Major Release So That Big Updates Don't Fail More

Windows 10 Will Reserve 7GB of Your Computer's Storage in its Next Major Release So That Big Updates Don't Fail

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  • No they won't (Score:4, Informative)

    by 110010001000 ( 697113 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @10:26AM (#57924320) Homepage Journal
    Because none of my computers run Windows 10. If you aren't running Linux in 2019, you aren't paying attention.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I'm Windows 7/Linux mix until Windows 7 runs out of support. After that is 100% Linux.

    • I run Linux... in a container on Windows and FreeBSD.

      Oh, and so my kid can play Minecraft on his Chromebook.

      Technically, I suppose I run it on several devices in the house - Android, Chromebooks, Chromecasts, Ubiquiti, etc.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tepples ( 727027 )

      I guess this is for people who work in industries where no GNU/Linux-compatible replacement for a business-critical Windows application or device driver is available. Even Wine fails for many real-world applications.

      • Nothing is more critical than keeping mega corporations from taking your data and spying on you.

        • Nothing is more critical than keeping mega corporations from taking your data and spying on you.

          Laptop and detachable computers sold in big box stores tend to come with one of three operating systems: Windows (which spies on its users), Chrome OS (which spies on its users), and Android with Google Play (which spies on its users). Though some can be coaxed to run third-party replacement operating systems, they aren't warranted to do so. In fact, many models have severe problems with broken or missing drivers when running anything but Windows (such as the ASUS Transformer Book T100TA, as reviewed by a D [debian.org]

    • Re:No they won't (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @10:35AM (#57924392)

      True you are not paying attention, because things actually work so smoothly in Windows 10, that you don't need to focus on keeping your OS running.

      Ok, I am being a bit sarcastic here. But Windows 10, doesn't suck that much, and Linux isn't that much better of an OS. I have a system with rather new hardware (With hardware designed for Linux, from System 76), and it duel boots Windows and Linux. And oddly enough windows runs faster and smoother for most application then Linux does.

      No Linux runs well on the system, and Windows 10 has its issues too. But it isn't like a Windows 10 user is so far behind in 2019 a Linux user.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by 110010001000 ( 697113 )
        Linux is a million times better because your data doesn't get sent to mega corporations for profit. You haven't been paying attention.

        • Pretty sure Ubuntu is sending your data to Amazon...

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jm007 ( 746228 )
          your tenacity is admirable and I'm sure many support your efforts; to say that anyone disagreeing with your assessment (and its risks) is 'not paying attention' is not persuasive and likely takes away from your end goal

          unsolicited advice: drop the personal attacks and you might find skeptics more open to your efforts

      • Re:No they won't (Score:5, Informative)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @11:21AM (#57924760) Homepage Journal

        I find Windows 10 needs to restart a hell of a lot. And it forces the restarts too. It will wake the machine up in the middle of the night just to restart without asking.

        While it's generally pretty good the lack of control over updates is immensely frustrating.

      • Re: No they won't (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Zero__Kelvin ( 151819 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @11:21AM (#57924772) Homepage
        Really? Have you missed the numerous stories of Windows 10 updates doing truly horrendous things to people's systems, including but not limited to losing data and causing them to fail to boot at all? How about having your system's settings reset so that you are never truly sure that it is set up the way you thought it was? It is absurd to suggest that Windows 10 is easier to maintain then Windows, since you literally have no control over it, having relinquished all control to Microsoft.
      • Windows 10 does suck. Have you not seen all the news stories of the utter failure this has been
        Really the only reason to stick with it is if you cannot change it at work or the like, or you play newer games and want the fancy graphics.

        Also, Linux/7 is at least 10% faster on the same hardware than 10 is.

    • Re:No they won't (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @10:42AM (#57924446)

      Can you point me towards the Linux builds for SolidWorks and Altium Designer as I need to get some work done. Also video editing is a hobby so how about Adobe Premiere?

      • I feel you on that... DAZ Studio gives you MacOS or Windows versions... if there were a Linux-native version, or Apple made a new MacBook Pro with a decent nVidia-based GPU (1060 or 1080GTX w/ 6GB RAM, please), I'd dump 'doze in a heartbeat (and yes it works in WINE, but not very well.) As it is, they don't, so I'm kind of stuck for now.

        But... I only keep CG stuff on said laptop, and nothing else.

      • What I'd do if I needed Windows-only rich client software would be to (a) run it in a VM, or (b) run it on a dedicated and carefully firewalled 'Doze box, accessible via Remote Desktop only from specific machines inside my local network. Actually, pretty much, that's what I do now. My home systems run Linux, and when I need to, I remote into the office network using VPN + rdesktop (Linux terminal services client).

    • I paid quite a bit for my Mac, but it's worth it...

      It's a Unix. It works well out of the box but I can configure it almost as well as any Linux.

      Not a gamer, so no reason for me to use Windows.

      But yeah, fuck Windows. If I couldn't afford a Mac, I'd sure as shit be running Linux.

    • I'm running Windows Media Center with my cable card network tuner on Windows 7 until the guide updates stop, then I will likely just convert to another guide provider until I cannot buy Xbox 360's anymore or the hardware takes a dump.... At which point I will review my options and likely end up with some streaming service option and drop cable totally.

      But that's not because I don't want to run Linux.. Only that I don't have any other option but WMC as it's the only option for protected content unless I wan

    • Because none of my computers run Windows 10. If you aren't running Linux in 2019, you aren't paying attention.

      Really? Or maybe it's that linux literally doesn't have critical software I need to do my job nor any suitable substitutes. I'm an accountant and an engineer. (not as weird a combo as it sounds) There literally is no functional equivalent to even something as basic as QuickBooks on linux. Never mind our MRP software, CAD software, various other engineering software and other tools that are indispensable to our work. Even when there are substitutes they generally are crap.

      Believe me I'd switch to linux

    • Because none of my computers run Windows 10. If you aren't running Linux in 2019, you aren't paying attention.

      (or LTSB/LTSC)

  • is that a way to disable updates? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TheGratefulNet ( 143330 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @10:27AM (#57924328)

    by manually ensuring that you don't have that 'required space' ?

    I bet there will be nag dialogs endlessly until you 'let them' do an update to your system.

    man, I hate win10. we are forced to use it at work but thankfully I can do 99% of my daily stuff with linux. those who must use win10 - I feel sorry for you. its not a fun experience having to be the 'operator' of a computer you don't really own anymore..

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ctilsie242 ( 4841247 )

      It is funny how Windows 10 has differed from Windows 7 as time has gone by. For example, Windows 7 ran OK on a regular hard drive. Windows 10 -needs- a SSD to be able to function. The minimum size has grown as well, where W10 pretty much needs 120+ gigs of space with all the Market and user installed shoverware, and that's before adding relevant apps.

      Maybe if Microsoft made this a whole new OS release, this would be understandable. They could set requirements where they could have a hidden partition wit

      • Made up "facts" (Score:5, Informative)

        by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @12:10PM (#57925110)

        For example, Windows 7 ran OK on a regular hard drive. Windows 10 -needs- a SSD to be able to function.

        Don't know where you got this made up fact. I'm typing this on a PC that has Windows 10 and does not have an SSD and it runs just fine. (well... as fine as Windows ever runs)

        The minimum size has grown as well, where W10 pretty much needs 120+ gigs of space with all the Market and user installed shoverware, and that's before adding relevant apps.

        More bullshit. I'll agree it's pretty bloated but it demonstrably does not require that much space. If you have that much shovel-ware installed, switch PC vendors. On the machine I'm running right now Windows takes about 45GB of space. You can argue that's still too much and I'd probably agree with you but it's 1/3 of what you are claiming.

        If you want to bash Windows there are plenty of opportunities that do not require making up nonsense.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Freischutz ( 4776131 )

      by manually ensuring that you don't have that 'required space' ?

      I bet there will be nag dialogs endlessly until you 'let them' do an update to your system.

      man, I hate win10. we are forced to use it at work but thankfully I can do 99% of my daily stuff with linux. those who must use win10 - I feel sorry for you. its not a fun experience having to be the 'operator' of a computer you don't really own anymore..

      To be fair that's a lose lose situation for Microsoft. Be aggressive about updates and the user is annoyed, let the users install updates at their own leisure and they get hopping mad when their computer is infected by malware because of an un-patched vulnerability they could have fixed by installing in a timely fashion the updates that they have been putting off installing for weeks. At least you're getting the damn updates.

  • I fixed this issue over a year ago by putting Debian in Windows place. Windows update hasn't been an issue yet,

  • Yippee! (Score:5, Funny)

    by petes_PoV ( 912422 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @10:29AM (#57924344)
    So by the simple act of ensuring there is less than 7GB free for Microsoft to reserve, I can put a stop to all these annoying and inconvenient updates that keep getting in the way?

    Great news to start the year.

  • Trying to create a more stupid user (Score:5, Insightful)

    by brxndxn ( 461473 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @10:32AM (#57924370)

    As a computer enthusiast since the DOS days, I so much hate Microsoft's Windows 10 philosophy. Every move they make is one where Microsoft attempts to chip away at a user's ownership of his or her computer. Microsoft creates a new problem by taking away a user setting - like deciding exactly when he or she has the time to update the computer or their work is sufficiently at a stopping point to risk an update. In doing so, Microsoft introduces a whole host of new issues such as temporarily bricking users' devices, rebooting in the middle of their work, running the hard disk full, or causing updates to run when a user really needs to get out of the office. Then, in order to fix the problem they created, they take more control away from the user and allocate unusable user space just for Microsoft to have extra space for more bloated updates.

    The paranoid part of me doesn't believe Microsoft is doing this to fix the update problem at all. Instead, they're allocating 'hidden space' on the drive to capture user sensitive data and store it for later uploads to Microsoft when the laptop/desktop is connected to the Internet.

    • It seems like Microsoft is unwilling to fix lame code let into the OS because they fired 10k QA engineers to save money. Instead, they're patching the patches that were created with useless crap was put into Windows 10. Windows 10 is becoming as unreliable as Windows 3.1.

    • The paranoid part of me doesn't believe Microsoft is doing this to fix the update problem at all. Instead, they're allocating 'hidden space' on the drive to capture user sensitive data and store it for later uploads to Microsoft...

      You're on the right track but there's no reason it has to be this clever of a reason. Most likely they're just reserving 7GB of free space because they've targeted that as the demographic most likely to be prodded into buying a whole new machine when Windows Update soaks up 100% of the free 6GB on their harddrive for a 7GB update that would brick their computer anyway.

    • The paranoid part of me doesn't believe Microsoft is doing this to fix the update problem at all. Instead, they're allocating 'hidden space' on the drive to capture user sensitive data and store it for later uploads to Microsoft when the laptop/desktop is connected to the Internet.

      The paranoid part of me wonders if this is the start of some kind of trend where it's basically expected that some largeish portion of user-purchased hardware -- storage, compute, connectivity is expected to be given over completely to its primary software vendor to support their business model. Whether it's mining cryptocurrency, providing distributed storage, obtaining extremely local telemetry (local RF monitoring, weather monitoring, traffic/geolocation, etc) and so on.

      I mean, we're already partway th

    • another is that most people don't like computers. Computers are tools to them. They hold the same feelings towards a computer that most techies hold to a spanner wrench. Less so, really, since your spanner wrench doesn't break all the time due to complex maintenance requirements.

      Microsoft isn't likely to hide data mining. Again, most people don't care about privacy. They've got bigger problems in their lives, like paying rent, getting healthcare or figuring out how to save enough for college. And you k

  • ms incompetence (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NikeHerc ( 694644 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @10:33AM (#57924376)
    This is a perfect example of why I have been ms-free since July 4th, 2018, and a big shout-out to Ubuntu for helping me be ms-free.

    If a company as big as ms can't check for free space prior to an o.s. update, they don't deserve to be in the business of providing operating systems.

  • 32gb flash drives? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by citylivin ( 1250770 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @10:41AM (#57924438)

    With SSD's being around $100 for a samsung 256gb drive, i doubt anyone is deploying less than 128 these days.

    Who the hell would ship a computer with a 32gb ssd? windows itself needs that much to even install! much less run. 128gb has been too small for a few years now!

    There are also some tricks you can use to free up space. One i learned recently will clean up the stupid windows installer directory pretty well. i personally freed up 40gb on my work machine.

    Download the windows installer cleanup utility, then run MSIZAP.exe G! to clean the directory

    If you get an error, delete all the registry keys under:
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Installer\UserData

    reference: http://wyang0.blogspot.com/201... [blogspot.com]

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Blue23 ( 197186 )

      Who the hell would ship a computer with a 32gb ssd? windows itself needs that much to even install! much less run. 128gb has been too small for a few years now!

      I won a Win10 Trekstor Primebook, little notebook with the specs of a wimpy chromebook or tablet. 32GB ssd, 4GB RAM. It don't want to have to invest more than the thing is worth to me in order to keep up with Windows updates.

      Had to connect a USD drive to get the 2018 April update on. No way there's 7GB free space on it even after an aggressive cleaning.

    • And if you choose to go with someone other than Samsung, like AData or Kingston, the prince is even better. It's only about $45 Canadian for a 240 GB SSD. Which makes it even more insane. Who's using eMMC storage when a proper SSD is so cheap.

    • If I remember correctly, Microsoft had this OEM deal on Windows 10 where the OS was free if the hardware met certain minimum specs. I believe that 32GB of HDD space was one of the requirements. Because of this, a ton of desktops and laptops were made with this spec in order to maximize profits. That's why there's so many of them out there.

      If this is true then its a problem of their own doing.

    • With SSD's being around $100 for a samsung 256gb drive, i doubt anyone is deploying less than 128 these days.

      Bought my teenage son a DELL 3-in-1 laptop in October 2018. Came with a 32 GB SSD.

      After he turned it on, Windows attempted to download some updates. Filled up the hard drive. We spent a couple of days trying to fix it, removing default installed apps, rolling back updates. In the end it was a lost cause. I finally convinced him to let me install Ubuntu on it, which makes me happier since all my home computers run Ubuntu.

      Now most of the disk is free versus having zero disk space available. I found it i

  • Finally...! (Score:3)

    by ddtmm ( 549094 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @10:46AM (#57924494)
    A way to prevent automatic updates.

  • Will this 7GB be added to disk requirement specs? (Score:3)

    by QuietLagoon ( 813062 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @10:53AM (#57924562)
    Or will it be something that the consumer "finds out" after starting to use Windows 10?
  • Best keep my computer full so the update fails then

  • Just delete something temporal (Score:3)

    by Gabest ( 852807 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @10:57AM (#57924600)
    Like hiberfil.sys or empty the browser cache. If you can't find 7GB, you are doing it wrong.

  • Obviously, there's plenty of Windows 10 hate to go around, especially here on Slashdot.

    But given the constantly decreasing price of storage per megabyte (and faster read/write times for it!), it doesn't seem like a bad idea at all for the OS to simply reserve the amount it would take to do any OS upgrade, and keep it safe from being used up by other programs or user data.

    Honestly, I bet millions of Window laptops are out there right now, with at LEAST this much storage space already partitioned off for some

  • Wow, got a problem fix something else? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kamakazi ( 74641 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @11:13AM (#57924698)

    So Window Update doesn't check the size of the update and make sure there is enough space before downloading and installing it, so instead of fixing Windows Update we will just reserve 7G (SEVEN Gig!?!?! I had a full OS, and all of Microsoft Office, and my other software on a 105MB hard drive back in the day - but I digress) which will only be used when there is a major update instead of JUST FIXING WINDOWS UPDATE.

    It is simple math. I realize with dynamic updates you probaby can't make an exact prediction of the space needed for the rollback repository etc., but you can know the actual update file sizes, and you can make a conservative guess on the in-process size, just check, if there isn't enough space don't even do the download. Nag the user about it all you want, just don't actualy start the process until you have room.

    And if they actually need 7G now, what happens next year when the updates are bigger?

    It's funny, I am sick of MacOS as they continue to de-Unix and get in my way with every update, so I am switching, but for some reason I never even considered switching to Windows.

    • So Window Update doesn't check the size of the update and make sure there is enough space before downloading and installing it, so instead of fixing Windows Update we will just reserve 7G

      To be fair, this does make sense.

      Just because there are 7G+ of free space at the start of an upgrade process doesn't mean that the user isn't busy copying/moving large files around, or otherwise changing the amount of disk space available. OS installs - which these are - should be reliable above all other considerations.

      Also, the fine article makes it clear that the reserved space is in fact used by the OS for temporary files and other ephemeral content, so the space isn't actually lost.

  • MIKKKRO$OFT?!?! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Merk42 ( 1906718 )
    M$ BAD! I didn't RTFA or RTFS, BUT, BAD M$ BAD!! Now to wait and get +5 insightful!!
  • Remember the good old days? "It is called Windows 95 because it is going to ship in 95 floppy disks, haa haah haa!" And we thought it was funny.

    95 Floppy Disks would store less than a quarter of a Gig.

  • Incremental updates are a lost art at Microsoft (Score:4, Interesting)

    by hackertourist ( 2202674 ) on Tuesday January 08, 2019 @11:45AM (#57924936)

    Like the last time I needed to make a change to MS Office: I wanted to install a Czech language pack for MS Word. This should be a few MB worth of dictionary and hyphenation info. The Office installer proceeds to remove my entire MS Office installation, redownload 500 MB and reinstall the entire fucking Office suite. IIRC it nuked all my preferences too.
    The icing on the cake was that it replaced the Start menu shortcuts for all Office programs with new versions in Czech, even though my system language is set to English.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by qubezz ( 520511 )
      Which is how Windows 10 "updates" work, your entire OS is nuked and a new installation is installed, with fresh "app store" hardware drivers and game cruft, and barely the settings that the upgrader understands restored.

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