Netflix Password Sharing May Soon Be Impossible Due To New AI Tracking (independent.co.uk) 151
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Independent: A video software firm has come up with a way to prevent people from sharing their account details for Netflix and other streaming services with friends and family members. UK-based Synamedia unveiled the artificial intelligence software at the CES 2019 technology trade show in Las Vegas, claiming it could save the streaming industry billions of dollars over the next few years. The AI system developed by Synamedia uses machine learning to analyze account activity and recognize unusual patterns, such as account details being used in two locations within similar time periods. The idea is to spot instances of customers sharing their account credentials illegally and offering them a premium shared account service that will authorize a limited level of password sharing. The company said it is already carrying out trials with a number of pay-TV operators but did not reveal which ones.
Simple solution: Charge per stream (Score:5, Interesting)
There is a real simple solution.
Just charge per stream.
Share your password with 50 people. You get billed at the Tier 50 level.
They could even have a family plan so the first 5 streams have a base rate, and charge for every X streams over that.
Why do they "need" AI to solve First. World. Problems. ?
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Why do they "need" AI to solve First. World. Problems. ?
Because it makes better news for the stocks?
pay per device or per steam at the same time? (Score:2)
pay per device or per steam at the same time?
Re:Simple solution: Charge per stream (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Simple solution: Charge per stream (Score:4, Insightful)
Which is bullshit. WHY does the location even matter if you are paying per stream???
i.e.
If I travel outside the country I get hit by their bullshit geo-IP blocking. I'm *paying* for the fucking service but can't use it -- all because I'm out of the country??? WTF! (Yes, I know its because of the greed of the Content Creators who license their IP and not technically Netflix's fault but this is still bullshit.)
All these shenanigans do is just drive people to use proxies.
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Which is bullshit. WHY does the location even matter if you are paying per stream???
i.e. If I travel outside the country I get hit by their bullshit geo-IP blocking. I'm *paying* for the fucking service but can't use it -- all because I'm out of the country??? WTF! (Yes, I know its because of the greed of the Content Creators who license their IP and not technically Netflix's fault but this is still bullshit.)
All these shenanigans do is just drive people to use proxies.
Blocked? When I travel outside my country I get the Netflix selection available under the licensing contracts for the country I'm currently in. The main thing that would worry me with this new AI based sharing detector is that it would malfunction as badly as the one built into Microsoft products which constantly nags me to enter the MS subscription password, seemingly every time I cross a border.
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No account sharing == no Netflix. It's as simple as that. So instead of having two or three viewers, they will have none. That will be real funny for the stock price. Alternatively I could have the family VPN into our home network to access Netflix. Happy now?
The end of Netflix is near anyway, their programming sucks donkey balls nowadays with dull "bingeworthy" series that turn sour after only a couple of episodes, endless unfunny stand-up "comedy" and heavily politically motivated "documentaries". The onl
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No, they want to capture and upsell users that use multiple simultaneous streams.
The AI system developed by Synamedia uses machine learning to analyze account activity and recognize unusual patterns, such as account details being used in two locations within similar time periods.
Re: Simple solution: Charge per stream (Score:2)
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That's what they say, but the first victims will probably be kids who live at more than one house. They could discriminate based on user agent and device type but here's predicting they won't.
Which, frankly, won't bother most kids who might be amused by Netflix but you can take their YouTube from their cold atrophied hands.
Re:Simple solution: Charge per stream (Score:4, Interesting)
Well let's go through all the business problems.
One of the biggest benefits of Netflix is it's simplicity. I never have to check the billing. It's the same price every month. I don't have to watch the usage like I do on other services or worry about a crazy number of packages.
So even if charging by stream would be rare, it's still that thing in the back of your mind. Like watching your internet usage cap. You also have to have more support with people calling in wondering when they used their 6th stream and disputing bills...
You also want to be careful about cutting people off just for streams. Maybe they really are on vacation and are watching netflix. Maybe you actually want some leeway for some general sharing. Like a kid going off to university using his 'home' parents account. You don't want to antoganize customers whose perception is they are legitimate.
AI is probably just a buzzword :P but if you can really get the data to determine those mass shared accounts where its beyond one household's or one family's general usage and then pursue those... more power to them.
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This is hard evidence that they do want to antagonize them.
My Sister in law regularly comes to my house and logs in on her Netflix account. Since we are not avid TV users, it probably stays "on the Netflix channel" for several days before anyone bothers to change it. I suspect the same thing happens when she visits other family members.
We won't pay for Netflix (we have free-to-air, and its fine for us). My sister-in-law would
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There is a real simple solution. Just charge per stream.
Isn't this what they already do? The plan we have in Canada allows us to stream to two devices simultaneously and we have 4 profiles on the account. I am going to be really mad if, when I go to the US or Europe for a conference, it blocks me from accessing Netflix because my wife or kids are watching TV back home.
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I am 3 timezones east of my home at the moment, visiting a child and grandchildren, while my wife and children are at home. I have a two stream account.
Would it find this sudden bilocation "suspicious"?
hawk
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* Watch on 1 screen at a time in Standard Definition. Download videos on 1 phone or tablet.
* Watch on 2 screens at a time. HD available. Download videos on 2 phones or tablets.
* Watch on 4 screens at a time. HD and Ultra HD available. Download videos on 4 phones or tablets.
How does this change anything?
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Netflix already has limits on how many devices can stream at once under a particular plan. The can tell how many devices are streaming Netflix at a time on one account. Nothing more is needed. As long as the limit of devices per account is not exceeded, there should not be a problem if the devices are in different location. Suppose a family member is on a business trip or vacation? Suppose a family member is in the hospital? There can be any number of reasons that a Netflix account that allows more th
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"Why do they "need" AI..."
This is nowhere close to AI. I've worked on reporting software that linked in the MaxMind GeoIP database to locate users by IP address. All they need to catch cheaters is a very simple query/report looking for a few very simple things. Claiming they need AI for it is ridiculous.
It wouldn't surprise me if "Synamedia" claimed it was AI to get more money, or perhaps tried to convince Netflix that they needed to use AI tools to justify the sale. Companies lying to make a big sale is no
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I don't normally call people a dumbass, but really if it were that simple, don't you think they would have implemented it by now? These guys are motivated by millions, maybe billions of dollars. An idea as trivial as the one you have expressed is likely one of the first things they considered.
Your job, should you choose to accept it, it is to figure out possible reasons why your idea wouldn't work. You already know it doesn't work because it is not being implemented, so you can be sure, if you look hard eno
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Just charge per stream.
Because people don't like terms of service that say they can be charged thousands of dollars a month if their account gets hacked. Such things make real bad PR when they happen.
Because they want to charge per person, not per stream. Like most services their model capacity planning expects much less than 100% account utilization. If you shared you account with 5 people that coordinated to a single stream at a time, but with ~100% utilization overall, that'd be a "loss" for them.
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The $7.99 Basic plan allows streaming on only one screen, the $10.99 Standard allows two active, and the $13.99 Premium offers four active sessions.
They are trying to maximize their profits on the accounts that say, "Hey Mom you can use my Netflix when I'm not using it."
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Let my ex take her profile with her (Score:5, Insightful)
Come on dudes, your devs could easily add account merges and splits (and while at it, give me an option to let me watch the end credits in full screen in peace). I'm not motivated enough to write a scraper/saver to copy her profile from my account to hers using Greasemonkey (the watch list is probably easy to get, but the entirely to watch progress and the simulation needed to bring every timestamp over might be harder on my end), and you guys don't seem either.
But hey, AI is cool. Decent profile handling is so meh. Don't forget the blockchain.
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Po-tay-to, po-tah-to. I'm pretty sure everybody understood what I meant.
Re:Let my ex take her profile with her (Score:5, Insightful)
> She can't take her watching history, and her list of bookmarked titles to her new account.
> Come on dudes, your devs could easily add account merges and splits
Agreed! That would be REALLY nice Quality of Life improvement. You are spot on about watching history being "locked" to an account. This isn't fucking rocket science -- just some basic computer science.
Even worse is when old content gets pulled. How am I supposed to add it to my "Want to watch again list". I can't because the page no longer exists.
The Netflix UI is a complete clusterfuck at times. When you search for content that they don't have rights / license to they instead show "other related" shows. NO! I want to go to the entity I _searched_ for AND I want give you FEEDBACK that I'm interested in by pressing "Notify me when this becomes available". Kind of like a "Wish List". Gee, apparently this is too fucking hard to figure out!
HBO Go has a really nice feature "Leaving soon..." Content that will be going away at the end of the month. THAT's how you keep engagement high. INFORM people what they can't soon watch so they are more likely to watch it.
That thumbs up/down rating system is also shit. The 5 star system allows me to grade something as "Great!", "Good", "Meh", "Bad", "Total crap". Lacking fine granularity is NOT helpful.
Do they even USE their product???
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Agreed! That would be REALLY nice Quality of Life improvement. You are spot on about watching history being "locked" to an account. This isn't fucking rocket science -- just some basic computer science.
I can't imagine caring about anything less than the viewing history of my Netflix account.
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LOL, Burn! Too funny.
Re:Let my ex take her profile with her (Score:5, Informative)
I still share my Netflix with my ex.
I don't really think this is there problem.
I spend a bit of time in developing nations, there are a fair few people reselling Nexflix logins. You can easily resell a 4 screen account to 15-20 people by sharing the password. They change the password each month to ensure that people still pay. I think these are the people Netflix is looking for.
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Why would a subscriber paying for two streams be "flagged" for using two simultaneous streams?
The AI system developed by Synamedia uses machine learning to analyze account activity and recognize unusual patterns, such as account details being used in two locations within similar time periods.
The goal is to upsell single-stream subscribers and convince them to become multi-stream subscribers:
The idea is to spot instances of customers sharing their account credentials illegally and offering them a premium shared account service that will authorize a limited level of password sharing.
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Netflix charges per simultaneous stream, sharing your password either means you cant use it or you need a bigger plan which earns them more money.
They charge for simultaneous streams within your household - thus, you are not allowed to e.g. split the cost of one plan between 4 families and they'll just use the samme account. Note that the number fo streams is only aspect of their plans - my plan has 4 simultaneous streams, but we are just two in the household. The reason why my wife and I has the premium plan is UHD.
This will impact satellite internet users (Score:1)
We live in a rural area where our only available internet connection is by way of satellite. One result is that no location service ever knows where we are. They will think we are in California one minute and Ohio the next. If I understand this new technology correctly, this might hamper our use of services such as Netflix.
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You don't understand. Their issue is users with multiple simultaneous streams that have only paid for a singe stream.
Works for me! (Score:5, Insightful)
I actually hate this service but everyone in the family wants it... so I pay for two of them.
I hope they come down on me so I can get rid of it entirely.
This will only lose them money in the long run likely because the rule of piracy is if you make content difficult to get a hold of, piracy become so easy that they go there instead of with your bullshit draconian DRM schemes for money.
don't need AI for that (Score:2, Interesting)
Garbage hype. You don't need AI to recognize when a user is streaming from 2 different locations at near the same time. You need an algorithm. A very simple algorithm.
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Except that without some intelligence, artificial or human (if it still exists), it won't work.
I have two internet connections, load balanced, and which one is used depends on which one currently has the least traffic. They show up as two different states.
Others may share a VPN, and get the same location for two different users.
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Garbage hype. You don't need AI to recognize when a user is streaming from 2 different locations at near the same time. You need an algorithm. A very simple algorithm.
Algorithmic Information.
Tada! Now we get to use the whiz-bang "AI" in our headline!
Slow Down! (Score:5, Informative)
There is nothing in the source that hints that Netflix are at all interested in using this, and there is nothing at all that links them with Netflix.
This company and/or the various "news" outlets spreading this are piggybacking on Netflix's name to push a new tech with FUD.
Re:Slow Down! (Score:5, Informative)
There is nothing in the source that hints that Netflix are at all interested in using this, and there is nothing at all that links them with Netflix.
Further, while Netflix might someday stop this type of activity, they already monetize it by charging subscribers higher prices if they want to be able to view multiple streams simultaneously.
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they already do this.
I pay an extra buck or two for two stream, and coul;d have four for another couple of bucks.
Instead, if two kids are streaming, I flip a coin for who gives it up so my wife and I can watch.
hawk
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they already do this.
That's what I said.
I think.
At least that is what I tried to say.
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There is nothing in the source that hints that Netflix are at all interested in using this, and there is nothing at all that links them with Netflix.
Further, while Netflix might someday stop this type of activity, they already monetize it by charging subscribers higher prices if they want to be able to view multiple streams simultaneously.
They don't mind people having multiple streams at once - that's even part of their plans (basic: 1, standard: 2, premium: 4) alongside other benefits. What they try to identify is people sharing their accounts beyond their household, which is against their TOS.
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There is nothing in the source that hints that Netflix are at all interested in using this, and there is nothing at all that links them with Netflix.
Further, while Netflix might someday stop this type of activity, they already monetize it by charging subscribers higher prices if they want to be able to view multiple streams simultaneously.
They don't mind people having multiple streams at once - that's even part of their plans (basic: 1, standard: 2, premium: 4) alongside other benefits. What they try to identify is people sharing their accounts beyond their household, which is against their TOS.
I don't really see any evidence that they "try to identify people sharing their accounts beyond their household" as I am personally aware of multiple instances where this occurs across huge geographical distances which are trivially easy to flag, and I know of nobody ever being cut off or even warned against the practice, despite what their TOS may say. At the least, they are not "trying" very hard.
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Netflix actively enables password sharing with its user profiles.
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There is nothing in the source that hints that Netflix are at all interested in using this, and there is nothing at all that links them with Netflix.
My thoughts exactly. Looking for access at different geographical locations is so obvious that if they had wanted to do it they would have done so. My guess is that at some point they will do it but want to increase the number of users first - and allowing people to piggyback is a good way of doing this. when they finally do enforce this I expect a lot of piggybackers will be so used to Netflix that they will get their own accounts.
Why not use the AI to find VPN users? (Score:3)
For all of the hype (Score:4, Funny)
Basically it just comes down to "... as account details being used in two locations within similar time periods." You don't need 'machine learning' for that. I suspect Netflix does this behind the scenes and lets it roll for the most common instances of household members watching separately. A while back Amazon clamped down on multiple accounts without AI. I doubt anyone will buy/invest in this firm.
I will continue to invest my own money in brick and mortar companies like Sears and Macy's.
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That's not AI (Score:3)
Killing the killer feature. (Score:2)
When I signed up, It was for streaming to X amount of screens. There was no mention of "In a single geographical location". My family and I are all over the damn place- all the damn time, and we all have NF going with our own profiles during our downtime. It's actually easier and more convenient than just torrenting my media.
Listen Netflix. This is your best feature. It's why I signed up. If you add hoops, captchas, and other DRMish garbage, I'm cancelling my service. I don't care if you call it an AI featu
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You seriously didn't even bother to read the summary, did you?
When I signed up, It was for streaming to X amount of screens. There was no mention of "In a single geographical location". My family and I are all over the damn place- all the damn time, and we all have NF going with our own profiles during our downtime.
Dude, Netflix offers three tiers of service, a single stream, two simultaneous, and 5 simultaneous streams... there is no mention of "in a single geographic area" except when streaming SIMULTANEOUSLY in multiple locations and only having paid for a SINGLE STREAM - see the difference?
It's actually easier and more convenient than just torrenting my media.
Listen Netflix. This is your best feature. It's why I signed up. If you add hoops, captchas, and other DRMish garbage, I'm cancelling my service. I don't care if you call it an AI feature.
Netflix hasn't implemented this "feature" - it's a software offering a small company says a company like Netflix could use - re-read the summary.
I don't care that you wan't more money. This is the service you sold me. It will simply be easier to spend the same money on VPN service, and teach the fam how to torrent instead.
BS, the only thing a
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Wait... OK. You just quoted, and then re-enforced each point I made. You missed my own statements future tense and implied ultimatum, told me I'm wrong because of it, AND you told me to read something I've already read.
Are you a public school teacher?
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>"Listen Netflix. This is your best feature. It's why I signed up. If you add hoops, captchas, and other DRMish garbage, I'm cancelling my service"
I don't share my account *or* viewing with ANYONE, and yet I have to pay the same as someone like you, who supports several people using it a whole lot. Or the people who share their account with several friends. So, to me, I would love it if other people were more restricted and paid for their increased usage such that my price could go down by half or less
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Actually, You do *NOT* pay the same as everybody else. I pay for premium service, which allows 4 simultaneous screens at once. The standard sub, which I'll assume your paying for, allows two screens at once. Even if you only use one at a time, your paying for the two.
Your buying enough ice-cream to feed you and a friend and just throwing away the other portion.
I'm buying my whole family ice-cream cones.
Everything would work out if you just had a friend.
Then I'm done (Score:3)
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Assuming your "family" can get by with five simultaneous streams, simply sign up for the premium plan and go on about your business. If you need more than 5 streams simultaneously, your family likely has greater issues than the subscription fee for Netflix.
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You're assuming they will allow multiple people to use a premium package.
The packages are for multiple people in the same household. What all services like Netflix want to crack down on are people using family plans for non-families, and thus get a lower price than what they should pay.
Netflix doesn't mind me and my wife looking at different streams at different locations due to travel etc (e.g. I'm abroad, my wife is at home), but would mind if I did "Hmm, I've got a 4 stream subscription but my wife and me are only two. I should share this with my parent and with my sister'
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Couple always have to be together (Score:1)
So what, now couples and families always have to watch Netflix on their phone from their living room? They can't travel and use the Netflix app anymore? If you pay for 4 streams, you can't use 4 streams?
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If a family wants two simultaneous, then sign-up for the standard plan, which offers two streams. If the, y need up to five simultaneous streams, then sign up for the premium plan. You can use your streams anywhere you want.
Define "location" (Score:1)
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You are trying too hard - the connection method isn't an issue, it's the number of simultaneous streams. The example you give represents two simultaneous streams, a service Netflix offers in their "standard" subscription. If you attempted to watch two simultaneous streams under the basic subscription, you'd be flagged because you are only entitled to one stream, not two.
Netflix currently offers one, two, and five stream subscriptions.
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Might not be terribly common, but these things will happen.
And if you're a one-armed driver, and you drive into a lake wearing a seatbelt and you hit an underwater tree with a forked branch that pins your arm to your seatbelt release, it will prevent your escape and you will drown, so we should ban seatbelts.
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Why do you need AI to check concurrent logins ?? (Score:2)
You just need to check the accounts logins against : is it possible this assclown was 500 miles apart within 10 minutes? Did the world go full r-tard?
Consider their premium plan. (Score:2)
Considering that they sell a tier of service SPECIFICALLY designed (and marketed) at sharing an account...
Netflix already limits screens (Score:2)
I pay a higher tier because I share with my mom and we'd run out of screens. But then what's unusual? I travel once or twice a year across country and I watch netflix in my hotel room. That could be seen as unusual, but legitimate. I'm hoping they're looking at some extreme cases like dozens of people watching in a cooperative.
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As long as you only use the number of streams you paid for, there's no problem.
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Exactly and Netflix actively enforces that. They'll prompt you to kick one of your profiles off if you exceed it.
Any data that goes in to someone (Score:2)
The collecting and selling access to all said information is a revenue stream for all of these companies. That is why they are in business and what they do to make money, It is all about making money!
If you use these devices, these sites or their services you must just accept it.
If this bothers you, your only option that works i
Clickbait article. (Score:5, Informative)
TFA is about a UK-based Synamedia firm that has developed this "AI software" to combat password sharing by geolocating account activity.
It says nothing about an actual partnership with Netflix or any other provider other than that single statement near the end of the article.
Netflix account tiers already have different levels of simultaneous stream allowances (1, 2, and 4). As long as your levels never go above what you're paying for, there's no reason for them to give a damn if your "family" is in different locations. The writer of this article just shoved Netflix in the title line for clickbait.
Duplicate (Score:3)
Duplicate from a week ago.
Jan. 3, 2019: Video Services May Use AI To Crack Down on Password Sharing [slashdot.org]
lol (Score:2)
>The company said it is already carrying out trials with a number of pay-TV operators but did not reveal which ones.
Probably because 15 min later someone would find a way around it.
What is machine learning? (Score:1)
... uses machine learning to analyze account activity and recognize unusual patterns, such as account details being used in two locations within similar time periods...
Wow, almost everything is machine learning now! Such a buzz word...
Relevance of netflix (Score:1)
I love their interface, and the possibility of using it in the devices in own, including a TV app/applet...
but, and big BUT:
the show and movies are....OLD. The only saving gracing is netflix own productions, which obviously are limited.
Come the TV series are what, 2 years behind?
When and if Holywood gets their act together, and allows them to sell new content....if hell freezes over, I will sign up the next day.
That is the most glorified use of AI I've seen (Score:1)
Why do you need AI to determine if someone is logging in from a different location?
People have built things like that ~10 years ago with good old if statements.
I built a system that analyzed login patterns to deter account sharing once. It was about 40 lines of Python composed of a tiny bit of logic and a database lookup. It literally took 30 minutes to create.
please turn on camera to authenticate (Score:2)
Who is Al? (Score:2)
I don't know anyone named Al, so Netflix can track him all the want, so long as it doesn't affect my streams.
/. shame posted by techdirt.com (Score:1)
It isn't.
https://www.techdirt.com/artic... [techdirt.com]
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