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Instagram Vows To Remove All Graphic Self-Harm Images From Site (bbc.com) 111

Posted by msmash from the cracking-down dept.
All graphic images of self-harm will be removed from Instagram, the head of the social media platform has told the BBC. From a report: The move comes after the father of 14-year-old Molly Russell, who took her own life in 2017, said Instagram had "helped kill" his daughter. Molly's family found she had been viewing graphic images of self-harm on the site prior to her death. Adam Mosseri said Instagram was trying to balance "the need to act now and the need to act responsibly". He added the site was "not where we need to be on the issues of self-harm and suicide". When asked by the BBC's Angus Crawford when the images would be removed, Mr Mosseri replied: "As quickly as we can, responsibly." Molly's father Ian Russell welcomed Instagram's commitment and said he hoped they would act swiftly to implement their plans.
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Instagram Vows To Remove All Graphic Self-Harm Images From Site More

Instagram Vows To Remove All Graphic Self-Harm Images From Site

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  • If you have kids... (Score:5, Informative)

    by sycodon ( 149926 ) on Thursday February 07, 2019 @05:09PM (#58086048)

    ...keep them off social media.

    • ... good luck (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Kids tend to be social creatures by nature, and have a lot more time to get around your rules than you have to enforce them. Much more valuable is to actually listen to your kids, particularly pre-teens and teens. Like shut up for 15 minutes and let them talk and answer with things like "why" and "what caused that" and shut your mouth when you want to say "that's stupid". Yes, it takes more maturity than they have, but you be the adult.

      • Kids tend to be social creatures by nature

        Then let them go out and spend time with their friends instead of being on social media.

        I think that humans are only about as adapted to coping with social media as they are life on Mars.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by sjames ( 1099 )

          Where?

          Apparently not the mall and often not the park these days, so where?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by rtb61 ( 674572 )

          Cough, cough, that would be non-introvert computer geeks, whilst quite correct for you socially vulnerable extroverts who require attention, it is not true for everyone.

          So all instagrams fault that a father let his daughter use it unsupervised and obviously had nothing to do with a lack of effective parenting.

          You can not censor the adult internet enough to make it suitable for minors, simply impossible, this is just another bullshit yarn about censoring adults because children might hear it.

          Minors should

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Problem is all their friends are on social media, not outside.

          This is just the same moral panic people had about kids hanging out at the mall, and before that the dance hall, and before that somewhere else where they can get away from their parents.

          Just like before, the solution is education and support, not trying to ban the latest hangout they find.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Yes! While I don't want kids seeing things that are beyond their ability to digest, media wasn't the cause of death.
      There were probably signs that were missed, and it's tragic, but if it wasn't media, she probably would have found
      another "method" if she didn't receive help. I know it sounds terrible, and it seems to affect (some) young girls for
      some reason after puberty - they go through this very self-destructive phase. I've seen a letter written by one where
      she talks about cutting herself in great deta

    • ...keep them off social media.

      Yes, but think of the howls of outrage on slashdot if you suggested banning under 18s from the internet entirely (which is what you would have to do)..

  • Umm, yeah (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Thursday February 07, 2019 @05:21PM (#58086094)
    This unfortunate young lady was not killed over depression or some other personal problem, it was because she looked at some pictures on instagram. Hold on here.

    I can sympathize with her family, what a sad experience.

    But here is the big problem if you are going to sanitize Instagram or other Social media because you are somehow responsible for killing people with depression or mental illness.

    Depressed people often see happy people, and become angry or more depressed. Might an image of a happy person be the trigger for them finally killing themselves? So Perhaps Instagram needs to police and eliminate images of people having a good time because if they don't, they murdered someone.

    This policing is showing a remarkable misunderstanding of depression and mental illness.

    • This policing is showing a remarkable misunderstanding of depression and mental illness.

      But it shows a remarkable understanding of how they'll look to a jury when the parents sue. Big bad company hurt innocent kid, did nothing to prevent it from happening to another kid.

      • This policing is showing a remarkable misunderstanding of depression and mental illness.

        But it shows a remarkable understanding of how they'll look to a jury when the parents sue. Big bad company hurt innocent kid, did nothing to prevent it from happening to another kid.

        Well, like I say, depressed people looking at happy people get more depressed. It sounds like another version of the anti-vaccine scam.

    • Re:Umm, yeah (Score:5, Insightful)

      by sjames ( 1099 ) on Thursday February 07, 2019 @05:59PM (#58086254) Homepage Journal

      I wonder how many troubled teens have looked at similar pictures on Instagram and then said to themselves "What the hell was I thinking" and then quietly didn't do anything unfortunate.

      • I wonder how many troubled teens have looked at similar pictures on Instagram and then said to themselves "What the hell was I thinking" and then quietly didn't do anything unfortunate.

        Can a question be insightful? Why not - let's get you to 5 insightful, mods.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        It's quite a thing for a child to start harming themselves, and eventually commit suicide. There is a very strong instinct to not harm yourself, and it's very far outside social norms. Seeing other people doing it gives them permission, it normalizes it. Kinda related to how people do things they wouldn't normally when they are part of a group, or a mob.

        Unfortunately that tends to be more powerful than the natural revulsion someone who isn't already suffering from mental health problems would feel. Instead

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by sjames ( 1099 )

          That likely happens as well. That's what makes this so very far from a no-brainer. We must also consider the effects when a troubled teen reaches out for connections and possibly cries for help and gets summarily deleted (effectively told "shut up, you're unacceptable!").

          Deleting the images feels like a positive step on first blush, but I think it requires a good bit of thought and research to make sure it's not doing more harm than good. It's a hard problem and I don't claim to have all the answers.

      • Somewhat analogous to the gun debate--"How many crimes were prevented?", etc...soft numbers.

        And it comes down to humans. Humans using tools. In one hand the tool is a Personal Defense And Plinking Machine, in the other hand the tool is the Social Network Access Device.

    • Social media has been shown to make people with depression suffer more.
      All they see is a curated view of everyone they know having a great time. They look at their own life and see everything, not just the good stuff. The bad stuff overshadows the good. They get the impression than everyone else's life is amazing and theirs is all shit.

      Then you've got the correlation between an increasing trend in youth suicide rates and an increase in social media use.

      • Social media has been shown to make people with depression suffer more.

        I've seen the studies. They are plausible.

        All they see is a curated view of everyone they know having a great time. They look at their own life and see everything, not just the good stuff. The bad stuff overshadows the good. They get the impression than everyone else's life is amazing and theirs is all shit.

        Then you've got the correlation between an increasing trend in youth suicide rates and an increase in social media use.

        Although in this case, she was not perusing happy pictures, but people doing harm to themselves.

        But you do bring up some interesting stuff. Depression is a real issue, apparently largely among women, who are big users of social media. Daytime TV is full of new depression meds, and all aimed at women. I think that your second paragraph is exactly the problem. I think the ladies have been brought up with the concept that they can have it all, including maximum hap

        • Add to it all the antidepressants that have been shown to increase suicidal thoughts.

          • This is why they are not recommended for people under 25. Says so right there in the patient information leaflet.

            • This is why they are not recommended for people under 25. Says so right there in the patient information leaflet.

              Side note: Its interesting how young people have different reactions to meds. Ritalin for ADHD also shows a marked difference as one reaches adulthood for instance.

              • I guess it is more like adults are patient enough to wait out the period between the increased drive and the actual suppression of their depression.

                • I guess it is more like adults are patient enough to wait out the period between the increased drive and the actual suppression of their depression.

                  And of course the nasty part is that teenagers are subject to ennui, so trying gauge between that and depression. Then again, I might have just said what you said with different words.

          • Add to it all the antidepressants that have been shown to increase suicidal thoughts

            Well can do. Basically brain chemistry is not very well understood and very variable. Brain pills basically fuck with your brain chemistry. You have to try a bunch before you find one where the side effects are acceptable. Apparently the effects are slow, so you have to take each for ages, then get withdrawal coming off it. You have to keep that up until you find one that fucks with your brain chemistry in the right way.

            Neve

            • The withdrawal thing is also very variable. Never was that bad for me, to be honest. The worst was sertraline, a week of bad mood and occasional headaches. Other than that quitting an antidepressant cold turkey seems not to do much to me except for slowing me down and giving me back the depression.

            • You have to try a bunch before you find one where the side effects are acceptable. Apparently the effects are slow, so you have to take each for ages, then get withdrawal coming off it. You have to keep that up until you find one that fucks with your brain chemistry in the right way.

              Never had to go through that but I know someone who has. It sounds horiffic.

              I know a guy who was on Thorazine. It was indeed horrifying, like a straitjacket for his brain.

    • How many people do you know that are depressed and/or have considered suicide?

      I don't know any that have attempted suicide, but I know a few in the depressed/considered suicide area.

      Anger over happy people is a bad reaction. That's a very low spot to be in. Medical help can assist with this.

      But images of self destruction provides ideas and methods of one's potential self destruction. It feeds the problem.

      The possible negative reaction to happy people is just a trigger at the moment, quickly forgotten (in

      • How many people do you know that are depressed and/or have considered suicide?

        I don't know any that have attempted suicide, but I know a few in the depressed/considered suicide area.

        Anger over happy people is a bad reaction. That's a very low spot to be in. Medical help can assist with this.

        But images of self destruction provides ideas and methods of one's potential self destruction. It feeds the problem.

        The possible negative reaction to happy people is just a trigger at the moment, quickly forgotten (individual instances, it can sustain over time because people are generally nice and/or happy).

        I'd rather have anger over a smile than consideration and instructions of self-harm from others.

        By a long fucking shot.

        Bridges might be the trigger that allows the potential suicide to decide they were going to jump off to do the deed. Or that finding out on the web that breathing in only nitrogen gas will cause you to black out and die peacefully

        My point back a long time ago, is that we have to stop deciding that other people are responsible. If we make it verboten for people to see, hear or view anything that might be used to commit suicide, and declare them as guilty of homicide, we will need to go on a wisdom burning

  • post hoc ergo propter hoc (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SuricouRaven ( 1897204 ) on Thursday February 07, 2019 @05:30PM (#58086130)

    ...

  • Wow, that could be a lot of images banned. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bob4u2c ( 73467 ) on Thursday February 07, 2019 @05:32PM (#58086150)
    So that means no images with someone who's used Botox, no images of someone drunk, no images of someone smoking, no images of someone with a cast on, no images of any kind of piercings, I could go on.

    When you throw out a generic term like "self harm" your going to exclude a lot more stuff than you ever intended. For example, I might classify a tattoo as self harm, some might not. Pretty soon all we end up with is cute cat pictures playing with yarn because, awwwwe.

    Stop trying to bubble wrap the world. My bigger concern would have been that my child was seeking out self harm images in the first place.

    • My bigger concern would have been that my child was seeking out self harm images in the first place.

      And I'm sure that they would have quit looking after they couldn't find any on Instagram.

      • My bigger concern would have been that my child was seeking out self harm images in the first place.

        And I'm sure that they would have quit looking after they couldn't find any on Instagram.

        Didn't you know out of all the places on the intertoobz, Instagram is the only place that has images that kill people?

    • So that means no images with someone who's used Botox,

      https://www.steadyhealth.com/t... [steadyhealth.com]

      no images of someone drunk, no images of someone smoking, no images of someone with a cast on, no images of any kind of piercings, I could go on.

      When you throw out a generic term like "self harm" your going to exclude a lot more stuff than you ever intended. For example, I might classify a tattoo as self harm, some might not.

      Under the self harm definition, is financial harm included as well? I've not seen any women in the board room who have tattoos. I have seen a lot on the Food Channel's "Chopped" show, and in low level jobs.

      • Fortunately, most humans not just uderstand that shades of grey and continums exist, but are capable of dealing with them day to day as well.

        You are engaging in some short of logical fallacy: you claim that because it is hard to draw a definite line is it also hard to know which things are very far removed from the line. That is very clearly not the case.

        I've not seen any women in the board room who have tattoos.

        Well, not that they've chosen to show you.

        • You are engaging in some short of logical fallacy: you claim that because it is hard to draw a definite line is it also hard to know which things are very far removed from the line.

          Never heard of the creep? If a group is successful at getting something, they push a little further. An example might be how the Right wing in the US hasgone so farther right every election cycle that now alomst everyone is too far left for them.

          If this effort succeeds, look for more of the crybullying. The perennial victim group isn't ever really satisfied

          And um, Over the years, be it short skirts, open shoulders hair up or down, even bathing suits, if they are hiding tats they apparently are well hi

          • The new generation has finally found something so repulsive to their parents that they finally got out of that vicious cycle of us oldsters co-opting their culture 'cause we ain't *that* old! Tats, piercings, rap...need I go on? Perhaps a quick nod to purple hair?

            • The new generation has finally found something so repulsive to their parents that they finally got out of that vicious cycle of us oldsters co-opting their culture 'cause we ain't *that* old! Tats, piercings, rap...need I go on? Perhaps a quick nod to purple hair?

              I'm at the beach in Florida, and just saw a young woman with half her body covered in tattoos. Hopefully she isn't planning on a well paying career. Those will look simply awesome in 20 years, like a bad skin condition. Maybe she can sell meth.

          • Never heard of the creep? If a group is successful at getting something, they push a little further. An example might be how the Right wing in the US hasgone so farther right every election cycle that now alomst everyone is too far left for them.

            Sure and yet we manage to draw lines all day every day. Because we have to ot actually get anything done.

            If this effort succeeds, look for more of the crybullying. The perennial victim group isn't ever really satisfied

            The only crybullying I've seen is from the perp

            • And um, Over the years, be it short skirts, open shoulders hair up or down, even bathing suits, if they are hiding tats they apparently are well hidden indeed.

              They often are, because of judgemental people like you.

              It's a different world, and in it, tats are considered as a tendency to make bad and impulsive judgements.

              Which is why people put them in places you can't see.

              I am very judgemental - even if in today's world, any criticism is seen as something destructive to the poor Victim-person being criticised.

              And yes - we can make pretty good judgements based on what we see. If I see a person with a MAGA hat on - I can make judgements about who he or she is. If I see a person with tats on his or her face, I can make a pretty good guess that they are as likely as not racially motivated, and probably spent some time in prison.

              I hope you know that you are every bit as judg

  • Self-Harm (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    The move comes after the father of 14-year-old Molly Russell, who took her own life in 2017, said Instagram had "helped kill" his daughter. Molly's family found she had been viewing graphic images of self-harm on the site prior to her death. Adam Mosseri said Instagram was trying to balance "the need to act now and the need to act responsibly". He added the site was "not where we need to be on the issues of self-harm and suicide".

    "took her own life" and '"helped kill" his daughter'. How about if you want

  • An argument could be made that exposing someone to images on Instagram might be harmful, so just to be sure, remove them all. Better get rid of the text as well. That should make more room for the ads.

    (whisper whisper)

    They're what? Made of pictures? Get rid of them, too!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      German, France, Spain will all have historic and political suggestions on that too.
      Communist China will have a long list of images and art to remove.
      Nations ruled by faith as a cult with a full theocracy will have images they want not searched for.
      A company that finds its DRM set out in an image?

  • Wrong way round? (Score:4, Informative)

    by jythie ( 914043 ) on Thursday February 07, 2019 @06:28PM (#58086406)
    Hrm.

    The bulk of the cutters and other-self harm people I've known over the years did so, in part, out of a need for agency and control over their own body. Perhaps I am being unfair, but every time I hear a parent complain about 'my kids learned cutting from XYZ and then kill themselves', I wonder just how abusive the parent was and now they are trying to blame someone else.

    • in part, out of a need for agency and control over their own body. Perhaps I am being unfair, but every time I hear a parent complain about 'my kids learned cutting from XYZ and then kill themselves', I wonder just how abusive the parent was

      Just guessing here, but yeah, I think you hit a huge part of what is going on here. It is weird that very few people seem to acknowledge how hellish a child's experience can be under "modern parenting methods". Jesus fuck, people are advocating for hell on Earth constantly! Kids need to be allowed some control over their lives; otherwise, they can't learn how to control things. Can't give a kid control. They will hurt themselves! But um... how do kids become adults then? No problem. Once they turn 18, we ju

  • I for one... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by 3seas ( 184403 )

    ...welcome our "go to the lowest common denominator and impose it on all" overlords.
    So lets all be snowflakes and demand reparations for anything that offends us.

  • Shared Psychosis (Score:3)

    by MrKaos ( 858439 ) on Thursday February 07, 2019 @06:54PM (#58086552) Journal

    Social media is starting to look like some sort of shared psychosis where people forget how to interact with other people and are only learning to interact with themselves. Especially because they only get attention in the form of likes which causes them to do ever more extreme things to get attention. This can't be a good thing for mental health.

    I'm completely against censorship though because when people attempt to control the flow of ideas they are assuming a dictatorial role which, in and of itself, imbues the censor with a sense of power that corrupts them no matter how pure their intentions or morals are. Communism and fascism has shown us just how bad this can become.

    So whilst picture of self harm are extreme images, that I personally would not like to view, they do serve as an indicator of the amount of mental sickness we have in society. In reality the images are people screaming for help that warns others and the censor becomes the enabler that allows the shared psychosis to go unchallenged in society.

    This is the heavy burden of responsibility we all share for maintaining free speech no matter how ugly it becomes because the people who do this are the "canary in a cage" warning us that our society has a problem.

  • Worst Solution (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    If they actually wanted to help people, then they could have data mined those images and put up self-help ads next to them and shown them to people who often viewed those images. Instead, they're making everyone else on the site look happier which'll make the depressed people feel like they're even more of a screw up and they will feel more oppressed because if they express how they actually feel they'll get banned.

    I've attempted suicide and have experience with long term depression. It takes more than a

  • Lets ban porn next because people get raped.
  • Got all prohormones/steroids banned. One kid killed himself on purpose. One kid took away everyone's ability to use stuff that works to lose weight/gain muscle and help your health. One kid! Absolutely crazy. Of course recently one rich person who owns a casino got cross state online gambling banned again. Sigh.

  • Impossible (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I've been thinking about this a lot lately. A few weeks ago a friend committed suicide. In amongst all the grief was the question, "could we have done more to help her and maybe prevent her taking this step?"

    So I get the impulse to remove easy access to certain information: you want to prevent copycat behavior.

    On the other hand, people with more experience in this area all said, "no, it's impossible to prevent this" and they're right. You can't control another person's thoughts. Someone with suicidal intent

  • Why don't you put the responsibility with the parents or children themselves. I know the might be graphic images, but do we really need to hide everything so some emotional/instable person might not do something to her-/himself? She propably would still have killed herself even if she didn't have seen those images.
    What's next? not being allowed to talk about selfharm or suicide, because it might trigger some person to do it to themselves?

  • with the internet at your fingertips, you're only a few clicks away from any information/picture you want to see.
    if she wouldn't have found it on instagram, more then a few other sites would have provided similar pictures (and finding those sites is also not very difficult).

  • I wonder if over eating would be considered self harm....

  • Instagram announced today that all images providing some potential for damage to vulnerable viewers will henceforth be banned, and the only photos that will be allowed will be soft, furry kittens. They may be sleeping or playing with each other, as long as no claws are visible in the photo. So, we all will be able to continue exercising our free-speech rights without harming anyone.

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