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'It Took 10 Seconds For Instagram To Push Me Into an Anti-Vaxx Rabbit Hole' (vice.com) 143

Posted by EditorDavid from the guided-by-algorithms dept.
eatmorekix quotes Vice: It only took around ten seconds. On Wednesday, I created a fresh Instagram account, and followed 'Beware the Needle', a user with 34,000 followers which posts a steady stream of anti-vaccination content. I also followed the user's "backup" account mentioned in its bio, the creator clearly aware that Instagram may soon ban them. Instagram's "Suggested for You" feature then recommended I follow other accounts, including "Vaccines are Genocide" and "Vaccine Truth." I followed the latter, and checked which accounts Instagram now thought would be a good fit for me: another 24 accounts that were either explicitly against vaccinations in their profile description, or that posted anti-vaccine content.

They included pseudo-scientists claiming that vaccines cause autism; accounts with tens of thousands of followers promising the "truth" around vaccinations through memes and images of misleading statistics, as well as individual mothers spouting the perceived, but false, dangers of vaccinating children against measles, polio, and other diseases.
"Instagram told Motherboard it will be looking at different ways to minimize these sorts of recommendations," the article reports, but "did not give a more specific timeframe for this change...."

"For the moment, however, Instagram remains a hot bed of easy to discover misinformation on vaccinations."
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'It Took 10 Seconds For Instagram To Push Me Into an Anti-Vaxx Rabbit Hole' More

'It Took 10 Seconds For Instagram To Push Me Into an Anti-Vaxx Rabbit Hole'

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  • Social media is the cancer (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 24, 2019 @05:10PM (#58326534)
    It's endemic.

    • And there ain't even a vaccine against them.

  • "Pushed you in..." (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 24, 2019 @05:11PM (#58326544)

    I'm sorry, it sounds like you deliberately went to this site for the sole purpose of finding this information yourself, so you could report on it for your publication.

    Am I missing something?

  • What? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    You mean "you may also like" worked? After they spent millions of dollars on it? Shut up.

  • Well, all the platforms are quick to do that. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ruddk ( 5153113 ) on Sunday March 24, 2019 @05:14PM (#58326566)

    I was watching a video about the dismantling of Ignalina Nuclear Power Plant and then one about Sellafield and then YouTube started recommending a bunch of related videos.
    And I know this is what happens, so I am leary about watching a conspiracy theory video or an anti-vax video just to laugh at them because I YouTube then will start recommending more of that bullshit instantly. :D

    • Re:Well, all the platforms are quick to do that. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Miamicanes ( 730264 ) on Sunday March 24, 2019 @06:23PM (#58327020)

      Part of the problem is that these services have too much blind faith in their ability to make predictions based upon incomplete knowledge. They REALLY need to come up with a way for users who end up pigeonholed and seeing endless recommendations for content to indicate, "Alright, enough already! I read a goddamn article about something while I was bored & taking a dump. Go back to recommending the kind of stuff I'm NORMALLY interested in."

      It's like the way TiVo used to be. A few years ago, my brother's family came down for a weekend. I recorded two episodes of a show for my niece & nephew. For the next 3 months, my Tivo was absolutely HELLBENT on endlessly recommending shows on Disney & Nickelodeon, despite the fact that I had about 40 open-ended scheduled recordings for shows that were about as close to being polar opposites of Disney & Nickelodeon kids' shows as you can get. It's like their algorithm said, "Oh, JOY!!!! Someone who now has small kids!!!! Now they're ensnared in the parent-industrial complex forever!!!"

      • Part of the problem is that these services have too much blind faith in their ability to make predictions based upon incomplete knowledge.

        These services are making billions and users happily click on the recommendations. This problem won't be solved unless it is a) legally regulated, b) regulated by industry code of conduct, or c) users decide they want to play outside a rabbit hole. That last one clearly isn't happening.

        Go back to recommending the kind of stuff I'm NORMALLY interested in.

        The line of videos immediately under recommendations is from your subscriptions. It's easy to get back to normal viewing.

        • c) users decide they want to play outside a rabbit hole. That last one clearly isn't happening.

          You're forgetting there isn't exactly a lot of practical alternatives.

          Yes, there's other places where people can post videos. They have much less content, and are either about porn or Nazism.

      • Re:Well, all the platforms are quick to do that. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by noodler ( 724788 ) on Monday March 25, 2019 @02:59AM (#58329126)

        "Part of the problem is that these services have too much blind faith in their ability to make predictions based upon incomplete knowledge. "

        You're seriously overthinking this which makes you conclude they are in some way contemplating their actions.
        They're not.
        All they do is shove more of the same shit you watched towards you. That's all they do.
        They don't care for the consequences. There is no 'faith' or 'prediction' involved.
        The algorithm can be sumerized in five words: More of the same shit.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        YouTube actually has that. You can click on the three little dots on the video and select "not interested", and then if you want there is a further option to "tell us why" which includes things like "not interested in X", "already seen this video", "not interested in this channel" and simply "didn't like this video".

        It does kinda work, the main issue is that it's not available on all platforms. Web and mobile support it, smart TVs and Android TV don't.

        • "I didn't like this video" doesn't necessarily mean you don't want to see similar ones.

          "I watched this video because I want to keep track of enemies" does not mean "heave me into the same tracking bag as them with 'probably similar thoughts and proclivities' ".

      • For me, eBay made the most interesting "deduction" about my interests.

        I happened to be looking at silverware because for some reason I fancied buying some silver knives, until I realised how much they cost. From there I was led into silver coins, and saw a few I thought would look good in my display cabinet, so I decided to 'watch' the auctions. One of the coins happened to be German in origin, from the year 1939. The others were British; silver sixpences and suchlike.

        But a few days later, I received an e-m

      • They want you to get stuck in an unhealthy obsessive rut because that's where the real money is.

    • I watched some flatearther videos. Part of it was for the entertainment aspect. Except that they turned out to be incredibly non-entertaining. It's like they hunt for whoever is the most boring and have that person do the video. Sure there's the occasional burst of astounding idiocy that evokes laughter but they take 15 minutes to get there. They're also continually fighting with the flath earth debunkers, and those debunkers are getting boring because they're stuck in a tit-for-tat youtube battle.

      Then y

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ruddk ( 5153113 )

        I think that it is interesting that even if I tell YouTube that I am not interested in that video or channel, they are quick to keep pushing more content of the same type.
        It seems like when you venture into a new field or topic, they promote that heavily to you. It might also be that I have watched every video relating to the other topics that interest me. :D (nah)

        Also, the recommended feed have been weird for the last month or so, I keep getting recommendations to videos I just watched a few days before.

        Hm

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tsa ( 15680 )

      It’s worse. Me and a friend of mine decided on a bet about who could reproduce a certain building better on paper: she painting it and I drawing it with a pencil. The next time I was on YouTube it recommended a whole slew of ‘learn to draw’ videos to me.

  • So... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    So... You followed an Anti-vax user, and surprise surprise other anti-vax content was promoted to you...

    That seems working as intended to me...

  • Instagram worked as designed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by magzteel ( 5013587 ) on Sunday March 24, 2019 @05:16PM (#58326588)

    Instagram's recommendations were consistent with the interests expressed. I fail to see what the problem is here.

    This may not be "fake news", but it is garbage.

    • A thing working properly is not the end of moral criteria. To make an extreme allegory, you would hopefully not fail to see the problem with a government using chemical weapons against peaceful protesters simply because the poison gas was working as designed. What's being criticized is not the effectiveness of the recommendation engine at making accurate recommendations, but the unintended consequences of such a thing in the context of a world that largely exists outside the heads of software developers.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I fail to see what the problem is here.

      The point is that sometimes recommending more (and more, and more) of a thing, even if it's a good thing, is a bad thing.

    • I fail

      Indeed.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The issue is that Instagram clearly knows that the person is interested in anti-vaxx bullshit, and instead of doing what most people would consider the moral thing and pointing them towards material debunking it, gives them more re-enforcement and helps fortify their bubble.

      If someone you claimed to care about said they were skeptical of vaccines, would you buy them a book about the dangers of vaccines for Christmas or try to point them towards the truth, for the sake of their kids and herd immunity if noth

  • They should use PubMed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Krishnoid ( 984597 ) on Sunday March 24, 2019 @05:17PM (#58326592) Journal

    Too bad these sites don't provide preferential recommendations/promotions to accounts and posts that contain links to PubMed articles. If they're going to use these algorithms, they could certainly promote accounts that link to the original publication [nih.gov] even if those accounts promote a conspiracy theory, that the research was real and is being suppressed, etc.

    That would at least get actual scientific research reports out front. If you can find anti-vax peer-reviewed research on PubMed, you go right ahead and link/share it. If you can't find it there because it's "being suppressed", find (and let the sites promote) any other sites that publish experimental research in any kind of refereed journal. It would hopefully get this information more in the open and at least cursorily examined for reputability and accuracy by people on the fence.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jep77 ( 1357465 )
      It's an interesting idea. PubMed may not have any anti-vax peer-reviewed articles in the library, but there are at least some articles included that are, at least, on the fringe. See the first few search results for "earthing" [nih.gov] as an example. So even when links to PubMed are included, you can end up with weird content. PubMed's disclosure about how journals are included in the library and the quality of individual articles isn't prominent enough, in my opinion. This is based on my own experience with people

      • LOL! -- The first result lists Deepak Chopra as a researcher! I bet his fans would quote this research anyway. All your points are valid, but being on the fringe, being weird, not disclosing exactly how the journals are included are the kinds of things that ask more questions that hopefully lead down the path of the scientific method, rather than into the network of social media forwards and retweets [mercurynews.com].

        Even if it's dicey research, it's hopefully research someone can reproduce, point to similar studies, or p

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Unfortunately that wouldn't help because peddlers of fake news long ago realized that linking to authoritative sources is a good way to add credibility to your claims, and that no-one ever bothers to check them.

      • Then again, it wouldn't hurt either because people who don't check sources also believe any kind of bullshit you put in front of them.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          It might backfire because the fake news pushers are trying to game the system and will make use of this to get promoted over truthful posts which don't link to PubMed.

  • What did you expect (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 24, 2019 @05:26PM (#58326670)

    It's showing adults what they ask to be shown. You told Instagram to show you Antivaxx content and it did show you antivaxx content. If it had told you "welcome to Instagram, check out these antivaxxers", then there would have been a problem.

    • ...what they ask to be shown

      Did he, though?
      When you follow someone, are you really asking for more of the same?
      And if so, more of what?
      Information on a topic or people agreeing with a particular view within that topic?

      Is it sane that your entry point into a field should decide exclusively what sort of information you are fed?

  • If you live in the EU, just have a look at for example this recent mainstream media broadcast from "Arte", a state-funded French-German channel: https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/... [www.arte.tv] (watch starting from position 01:05:03).

    Anti vaccination propaganda is obviously not limited to the underbelly of the Internet.

    • I don't understand your critics about the movie.
      There is no anti vaccination propaganda in the movie. Only a few true experts pointing out problems. And such problems indeed should be tackled as we know about them since 20 years, e.g. giving multiple vaccines at the same time to toddlers!

  • Surely you didn't expect it to recommend stuff you hadn't indicated an interest in. You expressed an interest, quite intentionally in antivaxx stuff and you got it. Then you came here to tell us about it. No, I won't click on your link.

  • Comment removed (Score:3)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday March 24, 2019 @06:11PM (#58326946)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • The headline should simply be "Instagram recommended I follow other anti-vaxx accounts after I followed one".

    Everyone would simply say "so? why is that surprising" and then the story would not get much attention.

    The meant of the story is still that Instagram are trying to do stop recommending these accounts, but that they haven't gotten a handle on it yet.

    • The headline should simply be "Instagram recommended I follow other anti-vaxx accounts after I followed one".

      You don't even have to subscribe or add to favorites with Youtube. If you watch any sort of sketchy video while logged in, similar content will forever be part of your suggestions. Not surprising Instagram is the same.

      I've just become careful what I watch, ever, so as to not contaminate my profile with perpetual bullshit.

  • Search.
    Read.
    Comment.
    Link.
    Share.
    Publish.
    With no gov, brand, NGO, think tank, Communist party, mil, cult, faith saying what is sinful.

  • The guy started a new account and immediately followed two anti-vaxx posters. What the fuck did he expect would happen?

  • Sounds like he dived into the rabbit hole, no pushing involved. If you are stupid enough to request anti vaxxer information why be surprised when you are provided it.

  • Exactly the article I'd expect from Vice. "HOW DARE THIS WEBSITE SUGGEST MORE CONTENT OF THE EXACT SAME TYPE THE USER IS ALREADY SEEKING OUT ON THEIR OWN!?" This is simply Vice and their ilk trying to normalize the practice of active thought-policing by social media companies and big tech. Plucking the low-hanging fruit simply establishes a precedent that can then be turned against any thought they don't agree with.

    Nobody "falls down" an anti-vax rabbit hole. Anyone stupid enough to seek it out actively is

  • Before having the ability to vaccinate, we had countless outbreaks of (insert your own disease). WITH the vaccinations, we HAD a marked decline in said diseases....that was until a couple of things happened. We've allowed so many ILLEGAL aliens into the USA, who have been spreading disease, because of the anti-vax types. In the 1800's is was COMMON (and should be) that anyone trying to enter the USA, was TURNED BACK if they had a disease.

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