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EU Set To Mandate Speed Limiters In All New Cars (bbc.co.uk) 485

AmiMoJo shares a report from the BBC: Speed limiting technology looks set to become mandatory for all vehicles sold in Europe from 2022, after new rules were provisionally agreed by the EU. Road safety charity Brake called it a "landmark day," but the AA said "a little speed" helped with overtaking or joining motorways. Safety measures approved by the European Commission included intelligent speed assistance (ISA), advanced emergency braking and lane-keeping technology. The EU says the plan could help avoid 140,000 serious injuries by 2038 and aims ultimately to cut road deaths to zero by 2050. Under the ISA system, cars receive information via GPS and a digital map, telling the vehicle what the speed limit is. This can be combined with a video camera capable of recognizing road signs. The system can be overridden temporarily. If a car is overtaking a lorry on a motorway and enters a lower speed-limit area, the driver can push down hard on the accelerator to complete the maneuver. According to the report, Ford, Mercedes-Benz, Peugeot-Citroen, Renault and Volvo already have models available with some of the ISA technology fitted.
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EU Set To Mandate Speed Limiters In All New Cars

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  • by hankwang ( 413283 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @02:25AM (#58346244) Homepage

    Two important bits in TFA are not mentioned in the summary:

    1. there will be a switch to disable the speed limiter until the engine is powered off.

    2. The car gets a black box that can be accessed after an accident.

    • by AHuxley ( 892839 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @02:33AM (#58346268) Journal
      How long will that option be an option able to be used?
      The black box shows the speed limiter was set to off? Any insurance is not approved if the speed limiter is not always on?
      Police ask questions as to why the speed limiter was off?
      Having the ability to "disable the speed limiter" may not be allowed for everyday car use on any road.
      A fully safety inspected, upgraded and approved car for a track day can ask for permission to "disable the speed limiter" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] ?
      • Germany has many motorways without speed limits; a lot of drivers and car makers really love those. I don't think German insurance companies (or German politicians) will stay in business if they make unreasonable (in the eyes of German drivers) demands.

        And for the rest of Europe: insurance fees already depend on driver age, driver accident history, and power/speed/reputation of the car. This will be just one more factor to take into account to calculate the fees. I can't imagine that a road-legal car (i.e.

        • While there are motorways without speed limits here, there is also the recommended speed of 130kph on them. Driving faster means an automatical partial fault in an accident unless the driver can clearly prove that the higher than recommended speed made no difference on the outcome.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @03:52AM (#58346448) Homepage Journal

        Presumably it will be like the button that disables traction control or the one that disables ABS. You can use it but if you then have an accident that would have been averted by traction control and they find out, you are going to be held liable.

        Cars in Japan have had speed limiters since the 60s by a gentlemen's agreement between manufacturers. It's set fairly high (114 MPH) and performance cars often have a feature that disables it at race tracks.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • How long will that option be an option able to be used? The black box shows the speed limiter was set to off? Any insurance is not approved if the speed limiter is not always on? Police ask questions as to why the speed limiter was off?

        The black box and speed limiter don't even have to be installed for them to do that. A lot of people think that you can claim insurance no matter how stupidly you behaved but insurance companies already have the right to refuse to pay out and they do it regularly. The thing is they are required to compensate you for damage resulting from reasonable behaviour, or due to random events such as forces of nature assuming you have taken reasonable precautions such as install a fire/burglar alarm or drove at a rea

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      3. If you press down hard on the accelerator it overrides the speed limiter temporarily.

    • by vlad30 ( 44644 )
      Interesting as I asked for this in a previous comment and it works as expected however governments I know make a lot of money from speeding tickets. https://au.finance.yahoo.com/n... [yahoo.com] so I do not expect them to make it permanent any time soon at least until they can wean themselves off the revenue cameras
    • 2. The car gets a black box that can be accessed after an accident.

      It's already got one. OBD-II vehicles store at least a minute of logging data, 30 seconds before and 30 seconds after a critical event occurs. That includes emissions failures, engine faults, or airbag deployment. It records the state of all sensors. It knows the throttle position and the state of the brake light switch, and in modern vehicles it also knows the position of the steering wheel.

  • yeah, right.. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by thesupraman ( 179040 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @02:28AM (#58346252)

    And of course lets not forget exemptions for 'special' people, you know, those with urgent high level government work, like being rich and driving their uber-toys..
    Of course it will create a nice little black market in bypass systems...
    Of course they say it would have an on-off switch (for a compulsory system? unique), and I am sure that wont be logged and/or reported..

    Lets for a moment ignore the fact that speed is not THE cause of most road fatalities (that honor falls to drunk driving, exhaustion, and distracted driving in about that order).

    I wonder when they will mandate riders licenses for road use of pushbikes, along with warrants for safety, road taxes, and license plates so that red lights cameras can work on them..

    Sigh.

    • by dam.capsule.org ( 183256 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @04:47AM (#58346584) Homepage

      The problem is not that it is the cause of accidents. The problem is that it increases the risk of fatalities for all user: https://ec.europa.eu/transport... [europa.eu]. Hitting a pedestrian at 32km/h kills the pedestrian 5 times out of 100. Hitting a pedestrian at 64km/h kills the pedestrian 85 times out of 100.

      My son enjoy taking is bike to go ride with is friend. I sure hope it doesn't get involve in an accident but if it ever happens, I'd prefer that the car was forcing the driver to respect that 30km/h limit in the village. And if he bypassed the system then he would have to take the responsabilities for it. And by the way, I don't understand people speeding in densely populated area. Most of the time you're doing small distances in those areas. Here in Belgium the 30km/h zones are at most 2km long I'd say. It takes 4 minutes at 30km/h, why would you risk lives of people for earning at most 3 minutes. The speed limits are not there to annoy people, they are there to limit the inertia of your car when you'll hit that wall, people, what else, the day you have a problem. And we all make mistakes and accidents. And also for those "pilots", king of the roads, even if it's not you the problem, if you are speeding on the highway and I overtake someone forgetting to look in my mirror and you hit me, it will be my fault indeed, but we will both die, if you'd respect the speed limit, we'd still be alive so that you would be able to receive the money from my insurance.

      This move is a step in the right direction.

      • by Malc ( 1751 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @06:34AM (#58346846)

        Speed is always a factor. Remember that kinetic energy is related to the square of velocity: KE = 0.5 * m * v^2.

        That energy has to be disipated in an emergency, either through tyres and brakes (and to a degree, the engine) or through friction/impact.

        Remember also the rate of energy disipation is normally linear. There's a point where the tyres lose traction and cause the wheels to lock up and the vehicle to skid, which is the limit to how many watts can be disipated. Because energy disipation is linear but KE is the square of the velocity, stopping is faster at lower speeds.

    • by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @09:45AM (#58347830)

      Lets for a moment ignore the fact that speed is not THE cause of most road fatalities

      Actually it is but not in the way you are probably thinking. My grandfather once pointed out to me a logically airtight fact. If you are the vehicle operator of a vehicle that causes any accident there is one inescapable truth in every case - you were driving too fast for the conditions. Those conditions include the mental state of the vehicle operator as well as weather, traffic, and the rest. This is always true even when other factors are in play as well (which there often are). If you hit something unintentionally at any speed (even at 1kph), it is ALWAYS true that you were driving too fast for the conditions. Sometimes the only safe speed is 0. If you are drunk any you hit something, being drunk is obviously causal but equally true is the fact that you were driving too fast for the conditions. You should have not moved the vehicle. You cannot hit something if you are not moving. A vehicle moving sufficiently slowly (possibly 0kph) by definition cannot cause a fatality.

      Bear in mind that police can issue tickets for reckless driving at speeds well below the legal limit for a given stretch of road if the conditions warrant. Speed limits only apply when conditions are "normal". Once something changes "normal" (weather, impairment, distraction, disability, etc) then speed absolutely becomes a consideration.

  • ???...... I love that thing :|
  • by rally2xs ( 1093023 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @03:05AM (#58346352)

    ...How do you pass a car doing 45 mph on a road limited at 55 mph? The answer is, you don't, and are delayed and consigned to do 45 as long as the bozo in front of you decides to do 45, because it would take too long to pass, and some oncoming car would come out of *somewhere* to give you an exciting ride.

    And then of course there is the emergency aspects of this - you're being chased, or you're attempting to get the H out of the woods before it burns down entirely, or you're just keeping in front of the mile-wide tornado, etc. etc.

    You're doing the 70 mph limit on an Interstate highway, and want to get into the right lane to exit, and need to sprint ahead just a little to increase clearance with the car behind so you can get in the right lane to access the exit, and... you can't do it. And its FAR more difficult to attempt that by slowing and dropping into a space behind that car, as there may not be such a space, some pinhead without a speed limited car may come racing up just to keep you from being able to do that (every other person on the road is a prick, in case you haven't noticed), and on, and on... 1000's of reasons why this is a bad idea.

    The ultimate reason that this is a bad idea is that I would never, ever, ever buy a new car again, and know a lot of people that would feel the same way. I belong to the Sports Car Club of America, about 55,000 people, so there's 55,000 "no sale"s right there. And being how this is the USA, and we are a bit 'round the bend about the freedom thing, one of the biggest reasons we have 350 million privately owned firearms in a country with about 320 million people including the kids, such a car would not make a lot of money being sold here, I think.

    • by Phillip2 ( 203612 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @05:40AM (#58346674)

      "How do you pass a car doing 45 mph on a road limited at 55 mph?"

      You wait. Safety compromising convenience seems reasonable to me.

      "And then of course there is the emergency aspects of this - you're being chased, or you're attempting to get the H out of the woods before it burns down entirely, or you're just keeping in front of the mile-wide tornado, etc. etc."

      That's more complicated. You make the mistake, I think, of assuming that this will keep your more safe, but of course, people die in road accidents when there is wildfire or a tornado also.

      "And its FAR more difficult to attempt that by slowing and dropping into a space behind that car, as there may not be such a space"

      There may not be a space in front either. Slowing down, speeding up, both have the same effect of changing your speed relative to the car which is in your way, and both of them leave you going at a different speed relatively to the bulk of cars on the road. So both have a risk. The advantage of slowing down is that if there is a collision, you'll be going slightly slower, so more more likely to survive.

      "one of the biggest reasons we have 350 million privately owned firearms in a country"

      Yes, indeed, and you are prepare to accept the extraordinary numbers of gun related deaths that this causes. It's your country, all up to you. I am pleased to see that Europe is moving in a more positive direction.

  • And if not, why not, they are the ones who _constantly_ and _noisily_ ride way above the speed limit. I don't care about the car driver who's going 57 instead of 55. I care about the biker going 60 in a 20mph zone, or 120 on a mountain road.
  • by anonieuweling ( 536832 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @04:09AM (#58346476)
    This 'feature' really makes me want to buy a new car...
  • by flightmaker ( 1844046 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @04:11AM (#58346482)

    Rear fog lamps.

    I guess other countries have similar rules to the UK which is they are only to be used if visibility is less than 100 metres.

    If we're talking about mandatory speed limiters on cars, let's also have the speed limited to 40mph whenever the high intensity rear fog lamps are switched on to put a stop to the idiots in over powered cars doing 85mph in the third lane in torrential rain with the fog lamps on.

    • How is that going to stop them? All that would happen is that they would do 85mph in the third lane in torrential rain with the fog lamps off.
  • by Mascot ( 120795 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @04:20AM (#58346510)

    Considering my car's sign recognition camera routinely misinterprets and claims e.g. the speed limit is 140 in a 50 zone, this should get fun.

    If it's on by default, I predict the sales of GPS jammers will skyrocket if this becomes the norm. Not to mention duct tape to cover the sign reading camera. Yes, even if you can actually turn it off in settings, a lot of people simply won't read the damn manual.

  • Um, what about the poor sod driving a car who has a heart attack? Technically that is a road death.

    Of course, they can end ALL road deaths by ripping up all the roads and outlawing vehicles other than horse drawn wagons on paths rather than roads. Or they could simply rename the roads as streets and have no more road deaths. But that's a big cheat, too.

    {^_-}

  • What happens when (Score:5, Insightful)

    by anarcobra ( 1551067 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @04:44AM (#58346572)
    Someone puts up a 0 km/h sign in the middle of a 120 km/h stretch of road?
    Will the car just come to a sudden stop with all the cars behind it crashing into it?
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It won't slam on the brakes, it will just reduce power until the car gently slows down.

      A bigger danger is that GPS speed databases won't be updated. A road might be widened and the limit increased, for example. Or it might get momentarily confused by two roads that cross over each other at different elevations, as sat-navs sometimes are.

      That's why for safety the driver can override the system if they need to, both by pressing the accelerator hard for a temporary override and by turning it off until next dri

      • A even bigger danger is that GPS speed databases list the road you are on as not even being there = speed limit 0

    • Probably not since 0 km/h is not a real speed limit. What is far more likely though is someone putting a 30 km/h School zone sign next to a motorway just "for a laugh" and then those cars with limiters will rapidly slow down while those without them will not likely causing serious accidents.
  • by SuperDre ( 982372 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @04:58AM (#58346592) Homepage

    aims ultimately to cut road deaths to zero by 2050

    You can aim all you want, but cutting road deaths to zero by 2050 is a very naive goal..
    Unless we won't have roads anymore....

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Phillip2 ( 203612 )

      That's the point of a goal -- something to aim toward. I think it is a goal we should have, rather than the current situation where we consider the deaths of many people an acceptable compromise.

      • by vlad30 ( 44644 )
        The reality is there will always be idiots that will find a way to kill themselves and possibly someone else in the process no amount of safety equipment will stop stupidity
    • Maybe that's the goal, considering the unrational violent hatred some people (including politicians who ought to know better) have for cars. Just look at the first post under this article.
    • by havana9 ( 101033 )
      Ex voto [wikipedia.org] are full of paintigs of people that exited alive from accident with horses and oxen, sign that road accidents with fatal consequnces happened when the traction systems were equipped with a natural intelligence driving system, so to speak. An I don't think that in the near future a computer could be smarter than a horse or an ox.
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      They said that about submarines too. They were very dangerous, lots of crews lost. I think it was after the loss of the USS Scorpion that they decided to have aim for no more losses, and they actually managed to do it.

      Also note that it's not zero accidents, just zero deaths from accidents.

    • There is one guy who constantly tweets about cars and stuff who claims it is possible, once we stop making people drive cars and force all cars to use Full Self Driving (tm), to be released next year[*].

      [*] Current year is whenever you are reading the statement.

    • Unless we won't have roads anymore....

      Not necessarily. An alternative approach would be to simply not build any more roads and then, by about 2050 Europe will probably have reached terminal gridlock. Traffic congestion is already credited with reducing some fatalities.

  • MCAS for Cars! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PhotoGuy ( 189467 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @06:05AM (#58346750) Homepage

    Sounds a wee bit like the ill-fated 737 Max 8's MCAS system, which overrode the pilot's climb ability when they needed it most.
    Not having power when you need it to safely avoid an accident will cost lives.
    But, just as with self-driving cars, more lives will probably be saved, overall, by the system. Because humans, on average, aren't great drivers; computers can, or soon will be able to, outperform them.

  • Remember Germany? The country that pretty much dictates what goes in the EU?

    The country (and as far as I know the only one in the EU, if not the world) that has no speed limit because even 130km/h (about 90mph) isn't fast enough? And where the mere suggestion of a speed limit is irresponsible and against sanity and reason [stuttmann-karikaturen.de],even for their politicians?

    Yeah. That's gonna work out. I can see that. Uhhuh.

  • If a car is overtaking a lorry on a motorway and enters a lower speed-limit area, the driver can push down hard on the accelerator to complete the maneuver.

    So the car suddenly slows down if it enters speed limit area? That means if you are switching lanes for example you could accidently ram into the next car because of this. This is just a disaster waiting to happen. Any computer controlled movements that can take place at random times are just dangerous.

    Secondly if you have an emergency then this means you can't drive over the speed limit and someone could possibly die before reaching the hospital.

    This is bad.

  • foreced to buy the map service or is it free?

  • One foot on the brake and one on the gas, hey!
    Well, there's too much traffic, I can't pass, no!
    So I tried my best illegal move
    Well, baby, black and white come and touched my groove again!
    Gonna write me up a 125
    Post my face wanted dead or alive
    Take my license, all that jive
    I can't drive 55! Oh No!
    Uh!
    So I signed my name on number 24, hey!
    Yeah the judge said, "Boy, just one more...
    We're gonna throw your ass in the city joint"
    Looked me in the eye, said, "You get my point?"
    I said Yea!, Oh yea!
    Write me up a 125
    Po

  • As long as the ICE cars dominated the market and Germany had the reputation for making high performance engines, nothing like this happens... They have speed limit less autobahns..

    Now the BEV cars are beating the pants off the ICE cars in acceleration. It won't be long before they beat them in every category. With such low center of gravity, BEVs will be impossible to beat. Right now Tesla is plagued with production hell, delivery hell, service hell and self induced shoot-my-feet-with-tweets hell... But th

  • Looks like it's time to start buying cars in the US to import and sell in Europe. I'm guessing that you could get a nice premium for an unlocked american car as long as it meets all the other EU standards, such as stop/tail light colors.
  • Safety measures approved by the European Commission included intelligent speed assistance (ISA), advanced emergency braking and lane-keeping technology.

    I think I'll wait for the next models, I've heard they will have Personal Commuting Integration (PCI).

  • by schwit1 ( 797399 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @08:03AM (#58347266)

    As with “gun-control” legislation, less-than-honest politicians (in the EU and the UK) have cynically, quietly excused themselves from compliance.

    Not surprisingly, vehicles transporting politicians (in the UK and the EU) will never have ISA installed.

    It’s good enough for us, but apparently not for them.

    Shocking, isn’t it, that politicians themselves are evidently hesitant about personally enjoying all the endlessly-ballyhooed “benefits” of this new, mandatory technology.

    Could it be that they don’t trust this dubious kit any more than the rest of us do?

    But of course, their lives and safety are “important.”

    Ours apparently less so.

  • Strict speed limits were set for all moving bodies [wikipedia.org] in 1905, no need to override it with an european law, thank you!
  • While you folks have been arguing about gas pedals in cars, it is important to know that the EU is protecting it's citizens from the real danger to health and safety. (honey, hold your hands over the kid's ears)

    Memes! Yes folks, the true danger to people isn't driving too fast, it is people using a picture of E.T. with a silly caption. Enough of a threat to humanity that the EU needs to eliminate it.

    https://www.theinquirer.net/in... [theinquirer.net]

  • Who needs completely self driving cars when you can just have a robot back seat driver telling you what to do? "Turn left. Avoid pedestrian on right. Stop at stop sign. Slow down. I'm telling the cops about what you just did." Much more cost-effective.

The gent who wakes up and finds himself a success hasn't been asleep.

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