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Google Businesses

Google Walkout Organizers Say They're Facing Retaliation (wired.com) 347

Two employee activists at Google say they have been retaliated against for helping to organize a walkout among thousands of Google employees in November, and are planning a "town hall" meeting on Friday for others to discuss alleged instances of retaliation. Wired: In a message posted to many internal Google mailing lists Monday, Meredith Whittaker, who leads Google's Open Research, said that after Google disbanded its external AI ethics council on April 4, she was told that her role would be "changed dramatically." Whittaker said she was told that, in order to stay at the company, she would have to "abandon" her work on AI ethics and her role at AI Now Institute, a research center she cofounded at New York University.

Claire Stapleton, another walkout organizer and a 12-year veteran of the company, said in the email that two months after the protest she was told she would be demoted from her role as marketing manager at YouTube and lose half her reports. After escalating the issue to human resources, she said she faced further retaliation. "My manager started ignoring me, my work was given to other people, and I was told to go on medical leave, even though I'm not sick," Stapleton wrote. After she hired a lawyer; the company conducted an investigation and seemed to reverse her demotion. "While my work has been restored, the environment remains hostile and I consider quitting nearly every day," she wrote.

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Google Walkout Organizers Say They're Facing Retaliation

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 22, 2019 @02:47PM (#58473026)

    Trouble-makers bite hand that feeds, results occur - and?

    • by sjames ( 1099 )

      Here Monkey! Go get the bananna!

      We have laws about that because most people don't want to live like a monkey in the zoo.

    • Slashdot comments: "Google is basically a common carrier, basic infrastructure, and must allow free speech."
      Also Slashdot comments: "Google is a private business, they can do what they like."

    • It takes a special class of entitled snowflake to organize a fucking walkout protest at Google. They are working for perhaps the greatest company in the world and are publicly complaining? I'm not usually one to say people should be lucky to have a job, but in this case...

  • Contract (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 22, 2019 @02:51PM (#58473058)

    Does your contract with Google allow you to protest? Does it bar Google from retaliating if you do? No on both counts? Then they can do, pretty much, whatever they want.

    If you've worked for Google I'm sure some other company would be more than happy to have you. That is, unless of course, you quit because you were busy organizing walkouts and demonstrations against your own company.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The issue here is that Google is saying it cares about AI ethics, but then doesn't like people taking an ethical stand and tried to get rid of the person telling them their their AI ethics sucked.

    • Contracts cannot remove your statutory rights.

    • Does your contract with Google allow you to protest? Does it bar Google from retaliating if you do? No on both counts? Then they can do, pretty much, whatever they want.

      While it may be true that things work that way in your backwater, in California I don't think any of that is even going to be a significant part of the legal analysis.

      I'm not a lawyer, but I did read the entire wall of mandatory break area postings required my State's relevant authorities.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 22, 2019 @02:55PM (#58473094)

    Whaddaya expect when you piss off a totalitarian organization.

    Yes - Google is totalitarian. They support totalitarian policies and regimes.

    Yes - "progressives" are totalitarian.

    OH HELL YES THEY ARE.

    Just try having a policy disagreement with one.

  • by DarkOx ( 621550 ) on Monday April 22, 2019 @02:56PM (#58473096) Journal

    Google has ever right to penalize employees who organized a costly disruptive and embarrassing disruption on company time, and property.

    There are laws that protect wistleblowers etc; they are laws that protect people who report things like harassment, those fine maybe even good laws. They should not protect employees who organize others to walk off the job and disrupt the work place; even if its in protest of those things.

    Frankly Google was probably two forgiving and lient with these people and will now pay the price. I would have gone out there with a megaphone in November and announced those of you who do not currently have an excused absence can get your rear ends back into building in the next 10 min and get back to work or you will find you badges disabled when you do. We will mail your pink slips and phone number you can call to arrange picking up any personal property you may have left at your desk.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      And 75% of your staff might very well have accepted the offer, shrugged off a hypothetical 15% pay cut as "in the noise" (and quite possibly a larger raise) and had a new job nearly across the street in the next day. And you would have been terminated within two weeks for jeopardizing your project and department with despotic management practices.

      That you have the legal capability (not right) to do something does not mean you have the freedom to do so devoid of consequences -- and you have missed the very

    • I would have gone out there with a megaphone in November and announced those of you who do not currently have an excused absence can get your rear ends back into building in the next 10 min and get back to work or you will find you badges disabled when you do.

      This kind of heavy-handed tactic makes for an annoying workplace. In the software industry, the expectation is that as long as I get my work done, I can do whatever I want. You don't need to micro-manage what hours I work, and trying to do so with a megaphone will only cause problems.

      Focus on results, not hours.

      • This kind of heavy-handed tactic makes for an annoying workplace. In the software industry, the expectation is that as long as I get my work done, I can do whatever I want. You don't need to micro-manage what hours I work, and trying to do so with a megaphone will only cause problems.

        You're giving management too much credit by expecting them to realize this.

    • by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

      Google has ever right to penalize employees who organized a costly disruptive and embarrassing disruption on company time, and property.

      NBC News' legal analyst [nbcnews.com] disagrees.

    • Google has ever right to penalize employees who organized a costly disruptive and embarrassing disruption on company time, and property.

      Yes, Google has the right to fire and punish which ever employee it dislikes in many ways that are not illegal. What Google does not have the right or capability to do is to portray itself as a socially conscious company and expect good press when it acts otherwise. So, when the CEO of Google is reported [nytimes.com] to have "expressed support for the employees who participated in the walkout [and] promised that Google would take steps to address the issues they raised" but then does the opposite, Google has only invi

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Great attitude if you want to build a reputation as a shitty place to work and get only the worst employees who the good employers rejected. I suppose you could make up for it with above market rate wages.

      Rather ironic that they are upset about people taking an ethical stance on their bungled attempt to be more ethical.

      • Google is rich enough that they don't have to hide their evil any more. There's not much anyone can do about it.

      • Most insightful of the comments so moderated, but I was still hoping to find more depth...

        I've read a bunch of books about how the google evolved to its current state. There was a time when ethical concerns were important and it was probably a positive factor if a job applicant had high ethical and moral standards.

        Unfortunately, technology is morally neutral, and money is biased towards the negative side of the morality. It's only the natural evolution of the google that as the money became more dominant th

    • I would have gone out there with a megaphone in November and announced those of you who do not currently have an excused absence can get your rear ends back into building in the next 10 min and get back to work or you will find you badges disabled when you do. We will mail your pink slips and phone number you can call to arrange picking up any personal property you may have left at your desk.

      At Google, that would not have ended well for you. Any manager that takes such an adversarial position with his or her reports would get a negative performance review at least, and would quickly find him or herself without any reports because they'd all transfer to another team -- or leave the company. Not to mention the fact that managers at Google, like at any large company, can't just decide to fire people. There are processes that have to be followed, and those processes would reverse the manager's d

  • Employee Activsm (Score:5, Insightful)

    by andydread ( 758754 ) on Monday April 22, 2019 @02:58PM (#58473118)
    I'm sorry but employee activism and kicking up dust is not a constitutionally protected right. Now you may unionize but you can't run the company by activism. You are free to find another job and go kick up dust somewhere else. thanks.
    • Re:Employee Activsm (Score:4, Interesting)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Monday April 22, 2019 @04:52PM (#58473954) Homepage Journal

      Google may have fucked up by doing it this way though. Formal warning or demotion, fine. This kind of secretive, passive-aggressive bullshit smells like constructive dismissal or creating a hostile environment, which is illegal in many places (don't know about CA).

  • What happens when you abandon your job? Your job abandons you. You want a pink slip, you an have it.

  • "While my work has been restored, the environment remains hostile and I consider quitting nearly every day,"

    You quit for a day, because you didn't like your job. You induced others to quit for a day.

    Show some REAL commitment to your cause.

  • ......when worker bees start thinking they're somebody. Start your own company and own your means of production. Then you can have all the walkouts you want.

    In the meantime Google has set out to do what they do. Initially they publicly stated their "support" for the walkouts. Meanwhile they have endeavored to give those people the business behind the scenes.

    It's high time that Google be unmasked and recognized for what it is: Very much akin to The Mouse (Disney) in that it is a very bad idea to get
  • by bobbied ( 2522392 ) on Monday April 22, 2019 @03:12PM (#58473236)

    There are specific prescribed methods for organizing a union which the law protects. Follow that process or don't complain.... Organize on your own time, not during business hours.... If you don't follow that process, then you get what you get, so sorry.. (Ok.. I'm not really but I'm trying to be kind.)

    If you are a trouble maker, encouraging your company's workers to walk out (stop work) and you are not doing this by the book, what do you expect is going to happen? I'm sorry, but if your employer isn't nice to you because of your protest efforts and you didn't follow the law, it's YOU who created the hostile work environment and don't have any legal protections here... Bye Bye.. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

    • by DRJlaw ( 946416 )

      If you are a trouble maker, encouraging your company's workers to walk out (stop work) and you are not doing this by the book, what do you expect is going to happen? I'm sorry, but if your employer isn't nice to you because of your protest efforts and you didn't follow the law, it's YOU who created the hostile work environment and don't have any legal protections here... Bye Bye.. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

      And if you are doing it by the book? [nlrb.gov] Hate to yell you this, but hostile work environm

    • by DRJlaw ( 946416 ) on Monday April 22, 2019 @04:19PM (#58473724)

      There are specific prescribed methods for organizing a union which the law protects. Follow that process or don't complain.... Organize on your own time, not during business hours.... If you don't follow that process, then you get what you get, so sorry.. (Ok.. I'm not really but I'm trying to be kind.)

      This was one of the specific prescribed methods [nbcnews.com]. You don't have to be in a union to do it, either.

  • snowflakes (Score:3, Insightful)

    by iggymanz ( 596061 ) on Monday April 22, 2019 @03:13PM (#58473250)

    listen kids, you walk out on your employer instead of working and they have every right to fire your ass, or discipline you, or reassign you. shocking isn't it.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      You - and everyone else who is saying Google has the right to retaliate against them because of the walkout - are missing the point.

      Indeed, it would perhaps be fair game if Google disciplined them or even fire them, while stating clearly the reason behind the disciplinary action. Google is, however, not doing that.

      What is the purpose of retaliating against an employee in a non-transparent, underhanded way, using methods such as sudden demotion and isolation? It is to maintain the pretense of "freedom" and b

      • again, you're quite unclear what being an employee means. I suggest you learn so you can hold down a job and not get your whiny snowflake ass booted out the door.

  • mmmm...leather (Score:2, Insightful)

    by asaa00 ( 2036984 )
    good god the amount of enthusiastic bootlicking in these comments is borderline pornographic
  • by onepoint ( 301486 ) on Monday April 22, 2019 @03:24PM (#58473360) Homepage Journal

    I have to look at this from a perspective of a person that is over 50. Because I have watched the rules change over time and mostly to the employee's favor.

    If you have a grievance, ( valid or not ) you need to follow the rules. It's simple. If you choose to strike and bring others with you, there are federal laws that protect you. in the 80's and 90's it was a few, now a lot of them.

    Now those laws don't protect you when layoffs happen. The ability to reduce staff properly ( rule following ) put's you first. Hey, you caused problems, problems that give us grief ( right or wrong ), therefore we will just remove you and take action to reduce or remove the problems at our slower pace.

    Employee's have such freedom of movement now, you can be interviewed by 20 firms in 20 different states and get generous packages. Fun part is, it's your own fault if you choose to stay ( something that I just learned about and working on resolving ).

    Now people will say something like google is totalitarian or fascist or whatever.... No, it's a public company, the goal of that company is to make it self worth more via share prices. you can rock the boat in a positive way or in a negative way. negative way might cost you your job, positive way will always keep you job.

    Sadly, people have given away "information" because they want it to be free, and guess what, a nation like India, Ukraine, Philippines, & Nigeria have many people that hunger for that information. and they become your competition. Last I knew, Ukrainian coders were some of the best for application security, Indians for GUI interfaces, and the others for quick re-writes of the documentation.

    in conclusion, a business needs to protect the assets, if you choose to harm the assets it won't protect you.

  • You don't say? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MBGMorden ( 803437 ) on Monday April 22, 2019 @03:27PM (#58473384)

    Amazing. Employees openly protest the work they're being paid to do by their employer and they're surprised that they're facing "retaliation".

    Understand: this isn't a whistle-blowing case where you shed the light on some illegal activity, this is simply you disagreeing with the perfectly legal work being done by your employer. Be damned happy you weren't fired on the spot.

  • And they protest. Now it's just about them being somehow harassed. Google should have just fired them.
  • If they can't have humans be serfs, they'll settle for AI being slaves.

  • Looks like these people are only just noticing that they aren't working at the Chocolate Factory after all. It's just another faceless company, and you're just another employee. Not many companies would tolerate such behaviour. Their business is to make money, and your job is to do what you're told to do, whatever that might be. That's what they are paying you for. If you deliberately act against the interests of the company, it's not exactly surprising that they are going to do something about it. It

    • You've already compromised yourself by choosing to work for Google in the first place. Getting in their faces about it is very counter-productive. What do you expect them to do? They're evil...

  • What this means is that a lot of people who joined Google believed that it carried a set of moral values they could agree with and which went beyond corporations making money.
    To some extent that may have been the case but over time that got hollowed out and became more of a facade. And this employee is now coming to the conclusion that the facade is falling away and beneath it the employee is getting a glimp of a very big corporation making lots of money and working to acquire power everywhere.

  • by bettodavis ( 1782302 ) on Monday April 22, 2019 @04:04PM (#58473640)
    The reasons for protesting seemed to be superficially legitimate, but the methods and actions weren't.

    If you don't agree with the ethics of your employer's products, you don't call for walk outs. You quit.

    But these people won't relinquish they nice posts and salaries, they want to have their cake and eat it too. Therefore they organized a protest as if they were on a university campus, where no one will expel you for showing "concern about social issues".

    Well, they weren't on a university campus. Working is a mutual at-will relationship, and you are as free to quit as your employer is to terminate you, specially if you stop being useful for the job's purposes.
    • by cpghost ( 719344 )
      "Well, they weren't on a university campus" Maybe that's the point: their easy-going corporate culture may give the impression that Google Campus is some kind of academic environment with the added benefit of good salaries. But it's not. Google is nothing more than a regular for-profit employer, and has the legitimate right to terminate any employee at will who works against them.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Can'tNot ( 5553824 )

      Working is a mutual at-will relationship

      This should certainly not be assumed, though it is very common in the United States.

      I find this situation very interesting. Executives and managers often talk about how employees should look at the company as a family or as a community, rather than merely as an employer, and that really seems to be what's going on here. If you think of the company as nothing but a mechanism to line someone else's pockets, and you think of your role at the company as nothing but a wage-slave, then this is not the sort of

  • by The Snazster ( 5236943 ) on Monday April 22, 2019 @04:18PM (#58473716)
    Labor unions became necessary because workers were being seriously abused by businesses.

    The unions pushed and eventually the pendulum swung. Then they kept on pushing and a goodly number of them started abusing the businesses.

    Then the businesses started pushing back.

    Nowadays there are fair number of people on both sides of that pendulum that don't know how to do anything but push, no matter where the pendulum is.
  • Google has clear policies about intolerance. The AI people proved they were intolerant of other views and refused to do their jobs because of their intolerance. Fire her and her cohorts.

  • Retaliation, even though it's quite illegal, is alive and well in Corporate America. Vehemently denied officially by every company, yet a guaranteed variable in the termination of any employee who dared to go against the wishes of the company.

    If your company is large enough, you probably have to do some sort of training every year about how retaliation is against the Code of Business Conduct and is offenses are punishable " up to and including termination. "

    Yet, if you see the company doing anything wrong

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