Uber Goes Public (cnbc.com) 125
After almost a decade of disruption, Uber is finally a public company. The company is the highest valued tech IPO since Facebook and Alibaba, and it's part of a wave of Silicon Valley "unicorns" to go public this year, including Airbnb, Zoom, and Slack. While today's debut represents a new chapter for the money-losing, scandal-prone Uber, it also likely signals the end of an era of cheap rides for millions of drivers and riders across the globe.
Good luck with that. (Score:1)
Making money on Uber stock requires Uber to be the massive dominant winner of the upcoming self-driving wave, and the competition all folding within 5 years. Good luck with that.
Re:Good luck with that. (Score:5, Insightful)
Well now there are a bunch of millionaires with a vested interest in making Uber a monopoly.
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Well now there are a bunch of millionaires with a vested interest in making Uber a monopoly.
Prior to that there were a bunch of potential millionaires with a vested interest in making Uber a monopoly so they could *become* millionaires. Now that they *are* millionaires, it seems they have less incentive to work.
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Re:Good luck with that. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Silly-con Valley, good one! Funny!
It feels like February 2000 again! (Score:1)
It's feeling a lot like February 2000 again. The hype is loud and strong, the stock market is peaking, and people are going crazy over companies and technologies without considering the fundamentals.
A good canary in the coalmine, so to speak, is the attention that programming languages are getting. Just before the .com crash the hype and focus was on Java. We're seeing the same thing happened today with the Rust programming language. The main difference is that while it was hugely overhyped, at least Java d
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That is easier with the company getting a big infusion of money to invest in that.
That is how stocks are *Suppose* to work. Selling a percentage of ownership to build capital to help growth plans. One can see it as a 0% interest loan, assuming you never want to buy the stocks back, which a company may want to do, so they can regain more centralized control of the business again, in that case, if the stock is higher then what the company sold it for (normally the case) then they are paying a lot more to get
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It's actually not that much of an infusion, if you look at their burn rate and promises of profitability that haven't come even nearly to fruition...
Worth comparing to Tesla (Score:2)
I've heard a lot of hand-wringing about how over-valued Tesla is, but everything I can find suggests that Tesla are ahead of Uber when it comes to self-driving. Tesla certainly have a lot more real world driving data, and if self-driving is viable then i think it'll be won by the the corporation with the most data.
The idea that uber is somehow worth $25B more than Tesla is just mind blowing. If you take away future aspirations tesla has a pretty meaningful business (and a set of factories, competencies and
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Even if tesla is tapped out on car sale growth (and i have some pretty serious doubts about that) they still have some impressive assets:
* They dominate the utility grid storage space
* They have the strongest network of chargers
* They have the most data on miles driven that can be used to train self driving systems
* Teardowns put their powertrains years ahead of the established automakers
Even if they do wind up bankrupt, they have assets and knowledge that's worth more than anything uber has ever come up wi
And nobody cares (Score:1)
Uber is just a taxi company, which "innovation" is not paying taxes.
But the world has gone so far into Wonderland, that idiots will buy any promise of "future income" with no regard to its feasibility.
Trainwreck of an IPO (Score:4, Informative)
Release price $45, up to 48, down to 44.52 as of this writing.
Morgan Stanly has to stabilize at 45 - is going to lose tens of millions.
Willing to be that within a matter of months, Uber prices are up by 20-50%.
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Re:Trainwreck of an IPO (Score:4, Insightful)
Willing to be that within a matter of months, Uber prices are up by 20-50%.
Conveniently, there's a way to place that bet. Though they're too polite to call it a bet. It's an investment.
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"Release price $45, up to 48, down to 44.52 as of this writing."
That's remarkably good pricing compared to what we have seen from tech IPOs, where the company would grossly undervalue their offering and leave tons of money on the table for the speculators to pick up. Remember, the company itself gains nothing from a price increase after the share is offered, though any pre-IPO investors who continue to hold do gain.
Unless you are day trading or running a billion dollar investment fund, a single digit percen
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Honestly, I'd expect Uber to be under $10 six months from now. They aren't profitable, and I'm not sure if they will be anytime soon.
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Good IPO for the company. It looks like they priced the shares accurately and maximized the amount of capital they could raise. They didn't leave any money on the table.
Not so good IPO for the underwriters. If they hoped for the shares to rocket so they can sell them and make a quick buck, that didn't happen.
All in all, I think that's exactly what you want an IPO to look like: a way for a company to raise funds.
and...a 6% loss so far. (as of 12:15pm EDT) (Score:3)
Maybe the age of disruptive tech having its stock explode are finally long gone?
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exactly (Score:1)
Precisely that. They are running basically a cab company prior to having regulated meters. How excited is everyone to invest in a cab company? Anyone?
They are disrupting a crappy industry. Once you are done disrupting you are still doing business in a crappy industry. No thanks.
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Not long gone. Just short gone. (Score:2)
Long gone because the most recent IPO hasn't exploded in the first day of trading?
Did you see Beyond Meat last week? $45 to $85.
No Profits (Score:3)
So WHEN will it ever MAKE money instead of lose it?
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That's what the IPO is for: so all the major shareholders can finally sell their shares and make money.
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Today, via IPO funding.
Yeah, I'll admin, it's not profit; but the bank accounts looks good for a short period of time.
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Remember, it took quite a LONG time before Amazon showed a profit.
I don't remember when, but I believe it actually wasn't that long ago before they actually started making money/profit?
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If I recall correctly, Amazon has been a viable business for most of it's operating life. The lack of profit came from constant investment of revenue into the business- their sales could almost always cover their day-to-day operating expenses. At any time they could have laid off the investments and raked in the cash instead.
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Don't be an idiot, Amazon is not an online retailer, it is a logistic company. Amazon had to invest in major capitol works, those dispatch warehouses. Amazon technologically is way beyond Uber and it has real capital investments, all those warehouses. Uber is an ap with delusions of grandeur, oh my, it will be ugly but the IPO is all about hedge funders getting their investment out of Uber at a profit and the current price limits how quickly they can sell without crippling it. They should have been making m
Back-seat passengers in Uber, Lyft, face germs (Score:1)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2019/05/10/uber-lyft-germs-health-safety/1128117001/ [usatoday.com]
Experts say that riding in the back seat of a ride-hailing vehicle is germier than a toilet seat and potentially more dangerous than sitting in front.
Re:Back-seat passengers in Uber, Lyft, face germs (Score:5, Insightful)
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The devil is in the details, like always. What is always squawked about is the variety and number of germs, while what is actually important is what they are specifically. Even when they say they found some type of dangerous bacteria what they usually mean is that it was a bacteria from the same group as some other very dangerous type but don't know if it was that specific flavor or not. The truth is that any space that is exposed to people will soon be playing host to a huge variety of bacteria that also l
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Its a dead corp walking! (Score:5, Insightful)
The have already said they will not make a profit in 2019 or anytime soon.
Please explain why you'll invest in this loser?
Greater Fool Theory (Score:2)
A fool and his money are easily parted. Uber has NEVER made a profit.
Lots of companies go public before they make a profit. Amazon, Tesla, Facebook, Twitter... the list is endless. That fact by itself doesn't mean much.
It's not at all clear to me how Uber will become profitable any time soon. It's one thing to go public without profits. It's quite another to go public without even a reasonable path to profits. Uber has been losing money at a rate I can't recall ever seeing matched. Obviously some investors believe in them but it's not clear to me why.
Please explain why you'll invest in this loser?
The only reason is
Going Public Bullshit (Score:1, Interesting)
In Finance 101, issuing stock is taught as a way to raise capital and reduce risk. That was true at one time.
Now, it's just an exit strategy. A way for early investors to get out and dump shit on the public.
Here's a Musk example:
Tesla is public. Why? Because it's shit. I know, I know, I know, Elon has bought about $30million on the open market over the last few years. Big fucking deal. To him, that's like one of us throwing a $20 into a raffle. Tesla goes bust, Musk loses only $30million. (NOTE: Like AL
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Lots of companies go public before they make a profit. Amazon, Tesla, Facebook, Twitter... the list is endless.
Tesla makes complete sense - there's a lot of expensive engineering R&D involved, and the plan is that the results of the R&D will let them build and sell products for more than the cost of the R&D.
Amazon makes sense, depending on what they were spending the money on at the time; it would make sense if they were building warehouses or maybe even developing the AWS infrastructure. Facebook and Twitter, it was just so that they could get users for free; the original software development was tri
Going public before profits (Score:2)
Tesla makes complete sense - there's a lot of expensive engineering R&D involved, and the plan is that the results of the R&D will let them build and sell products for more than the cost of the R&D.
R&D is a piece of the expense puzzle for Tesla but not the big one. Not even close by about an order of magnitude. The big expenses for manufacturing companies are the capital equipment and staff required to actually make the products. Tesla spend about $1.5 billion last year on R&D but their COGS + SG&A was over $20 billion. Tesla went public to raise the huge amount of capital they needed to get their cars into production. They couldn't get loans that big (no collateral) so the only optio
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I'm honestly a bit amazed that Uber hasn't made money. Are they paying out too much in insurance claims or something? I thought the whole premise was to provide an Application that lets people ask for a ride from one place to another, let registered drivers accept the job, and then handle the billing. The drivers bring the vehicle so all that Uber should be paying for is the business class insurance and the servers that host the application. I wouldn't necessarily expect Uber to be making money hand over fi
Re:Its a dead corp walking! (Score:5, Informative)
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Isn't that awesome though? For years, Uber has been taking cash from investors and giving it to random low-class people-with-a-car and letting people get around town on the cheap. Probably saved a few lives after too many drinks at a bar. The increased competition to the taxi drivers was a kick in the pants, but most of their earnings go to the taxi company or the banks to afford a "medallion". Of course, now that's going to be over, and all the speculators will move onto "The Next Big Thing".
Running a tec
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I'm thinking of taking a position on the short side.
This one seems pretty obvious given the insane valuation, close to the total valuation of both Tesla and BMW combined (give or take $10 billion):
https://electrek.co/2018/11/08... [electrek.co]
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It's easy to look at New York or San Fran but the rest of the country is far more spread out, have less options for 3rd
Down (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not really easy to see how Uber can lose money, given that the core of their product is an app, and they just take ~30% off the top of every ride. Where are they spending their $12billion a year?
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The lineup of class action and personal lawsuits goes outside, around the corner and down 5 blocks. They can only stall the inevitable for so long.br If you're loo.king for a tax write off then you've made a great investment!
Re: Down (Score:2)
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Look how much they are spending on advertising, wow. Wonder how much of that goes to Google maps.
Re: Down (Score:2)
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Type (Score:3)
After almost a decade of disruption, Uber is finally a public company.
I think they misspelled CORRUPTION.
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Re:It's not about "cheap rides" (Score:4, Insightful)
How about you google uber+rape? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=uber+rape [lmgtfy.com]
They don't care about who drives for them as long as you've got a car
Target market is 18-30, where everyone thinks "It'll be ok, nothing will ever happen to me" All they want is a cheap ride.
When shareholders demand a profit (and they will), they will have no choice but to raise the rates. When that happens the reason to take an Uber will diminish, along with any chances of making a profit.
Why does UBER lost money? (Score:1)
It's astounding to me they lose money. They make a freaking app that connects drivers to passengers. That's it. The damn thing is written now, and AFAIK is feature complete.
What is it exactly that they're shoveling money to? The drivers are contractors that don't get paid until they get a ride. Did they write their backend infrastructure so crappily they require armies of admins to maintain it? What is it?
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Uber has 12k EMPLOYEES.
That's not counting contractor drivers.
WTF?
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Doesn't include all (there are LOTS) of upcoming lawsuites and class actions.
12,000 employees spread out around the globe. 755 locations x 10 employees to handle drivers in their green light lounges, phone support (5, its almost all AI robots), management and programmers.
So a bunch of rich guys get richer (Score:2)
Former Sovtware Dev - Now Uber Driver .... (Score:3, Interesting)
So I have aged out of the industry apparently and until I manage to reinvent myself I'm doing Uber. FWIW here is something that most people do not know: now many people know that Uber has been cutting pay for drivers for the past four years nationwide (50% pay cut the past 2 years) what most people do NOT know is that 2 months prior to it's IPO Uber has all but stopped paying surges to it's drivers. Where once, in large markets, surges were a daily occurrence Uber has cut back the surges the driver sees - but has **continued** to charge surge rates to passengers while not passing that along to the drivers. Since surge rates have traditionally amounted to 15 to 20 percent of driver income this is a HUGE loss to drivers and was no doubt done in a futile attempt to make it's first quarter profitable - or at least lose somewhat less after the IPO. What it has done is increase driver dissatisfaction **enormously** and increase incidences of substandard service because more and more drivers have no more f*#!s to give. This is how the old taxi industry went south - by decreasing driver compensation drivers are forced to make profitability choices which do not benefit the passenger base.
Uber is engaging in short-term fixes to it's flood of debt and this will only result in poorer service, customer dissatisfaction and eventually leave it open to disruption for the very same reasons that taxis bit the dust.
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Making decisions that benefit the short-term is what Wall Street wants, regardless of how badly those decisions impact the company in the long run. Investors don't care about the long-term because they will have cashed out by then and leave someone else with the mess.
Underwriters are earning their pay today (Score:3)
Lyft gets the last laugh (Score:5, Informative)
Fast for to March when Lyft goes public first and immediately soaks up a lot of public investor demand for ride sharing companies, and then promptly tanks when analysts start writing about how difficuthatlt it will be for Lyft or Uber to ever make money. Make no mistake Uber's poor IPO showing today is the result of Lyft going public first and poisoning the pond.
Curious (Score:1)
I've never used uber, but is there anything stopping the customer from cancelling the ride after the driver arrives and cut uber out of the deal if the customer pays cash? Figure the driver/customer could split the uber cut 50/50 and everyone wins, well except uber.
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Discussion about this IPO on PBS Newshour (Score:3)
One of the guests mentions like many Silicon Valley companies where a few will make a lot of money and many others will not. Another mentioned this "ride sharing" [I disagree it is a ride sharing company] concept has impacted taxi service considerably, think of what it was like before when trying to get a cab in San Francisco. Many wheelchaired bound people find Uber and Lyft a major improvment. However, the concept was great but company went wild, the drivers are getting less than minimum wage.
CEO Incentive (Score:2)
This bit FTFA is classic, why corporate America sucks. It's all right here. CEO fetishization, hyper short term thinking, CEO over compensation, misdirected incentives. What an utterly pathetic board of directors.
"Khosrowshahi will be personally incentivized to keep up the value of the stock. If Khosrowshahi can keep Uber's valuation above $120 billion for 90 consecutive days once it goes public, Khosrowshahi will win net stock bonuses topping $100 million."
The mind races at the different ways that the C
GEORGE NEGGA GUARANTEE LOAN OFFER (Score:1)