Sony Builds IoT Chip With a 60-Mile Range (engadget.com) 93
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Engadget: Sony is quietly launching a chip that could change how e-bikes, cars, street lamps and all kinds of other connected devices can relay information. The module, when installed on any IoT object, will allow it send data to Sony's proprietary low-power wide area (LPWA) ELTRES network launching this fall. It can transmit up to about 60 miles and work in noisy urban environments on objects moving at high speeds, opening up a lot of new applications in security, monitoring, tracking and more. Sony's ELTRES LPWA network harnesses low-power wireless technology to transfer low-bit data across a wide area, with lower power consumption, making it feasible to connect a wide range of devices.
The CXM1501GR chip transmits signals in the 920MHz band to Sony's ELTRES network, and is also equipped with GPS/GNSS sensors to obtain time and position data. Sony said it'll work in a "broad range of IoT devices, aiming to develop various services making the most of stable wireless communications over long distances and while moving at high speeds, thereby creating a new market." In a use case document, Sony said the tech could be used to "help friends find each other at a ski hill," track wildlife, geolocate ships, follow yacht races, monitor bike rentals, while tracking numerous things like drones, rental cars and trains. The chip is limited to Japan for now, but Sony has launched an application program for interested companies and the company does have plans to build out the network.
The CXM1501GR chip transmits signals in the 920MHz band to Sony's ELTRES network, and is also equipped with GPS/GNSS sensors to obtain time and position data. Sony said it'll work in a "broad range of IoT devices, aiming to develop various services making the most of stable wireless communications over long distances and while moving at high speeds, thereby creating a new market." In a use case document, Sony said the tech could be used to "help friends find each other at a ski hill," track wildlife, geolocate ships, follow yacht races, monitor bike rentals, while tracking numerous things like drones, rental cars and trains. The chip is limited to Japan for now, but Sony has launched an application program for interested companies and the company does have plans to build out the network.
F Sony (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't care how cool it is, I'm not signing up for a company that is both user-abusive and has a long history of favoring proprietary media formats.
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Wow, I am surprised that your ethics are allowing you have technology powerful enough to post on Slashdot.
Companies are not ethical roll models. They are in business because they make or offer a service for something that you (or someone else wants) then exchanges this product or service for money in exchange, presumably at a rate where the amount of money they bring in is greater then the cost of making the product and keeping the company running, as well to allow growth.
Customers want to spend the least
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Especially when there already exists a non-proprietary widely adopted alternative that works as well.
https://lora-alliance.org/abou... [lora-alliance.org]
https://www.thethingsnetwork.o... [thethingsnetwork.org]
100 million iOT in NYCity (Score:2)
given the population of NYCIty and the number of potential IOT devices not to mention ones just used by the city and companies, NY city's 60 mile radius will be jammed.
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depends on how sensitive the devices are. If the frequencies you are using have enough range then you can put plenty of devices online. For example. Say you have a frequency range between 20kHz ~ 25kHz. Your first generation device is sensitive enough to only detect a difference of 5kHz. This means you can get 2 channels from this spectrum and transmit/receive data without any interference between devices.
Now imagine if your second generation device is sensitive enough to detect/transmit with a differe
rubbish (Score:2)
If you have a bandwidth of 100hz then your data rate is also a small number times 100hz.
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How much information do you need to transfer to a scooter? A short, bit-encoded message (last ten digits of longitude/latitude, and 8 bits for power level?), and the thing won't need to talk again for another ten minutes.
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This is wrong, very wrong.
This person is confusing channel width with interference, I think.
A radio system is limited by the sensitivity of the receiver, the ability to reject out of channel signals (selectivity), transmitter power and path loss between transmitter and receiver.
The sensitivity of the receiver is based on a number of things:
* noise figure - internal noise in the receiver circuits
* amount of signal needed - the more complex the modulation, the more signal you need
* MDS - minimum discernible s
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Part of the technique of getting long range radio links viable also makes the radio link more resistant to noise. This isn're really anything new, but typically the bit rate can get very low. Not sure what Sony is doing differently, if anything.
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It is low bit rate. You don't need much to transmit coordinates.
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And even that is optimistic...
I hate to be Mr. cynical commenter, but those things will not get 60 miles, unless the the receiver and/or transmitter has a goodly amount of height over the deployed terrain, and good antennas on one end, preferably both.
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This. You need about 2400' of elevation to see 60 miles at the horizon. 920MHz travels mostly line of sight. You can get a little bit over the horizon, or get lucky with some tropospheric ducting, but I wouldn't want to count on that.
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Sure, but that's well understood. If using them in an urban environment you need the receivers to be more densely packed.
What really matters is if they can get signals out from inside buildings or underground, and what the link budget is.
Tech like LORA is sensitive below the noise floor now, so even with a very tiny amount of transmit power they can receive packets from difficult environments.
Re: Deployment issue (Score:2)
60 miles, point to point at 920MHz? I'll believe it when I see it. You are going to need significant antenna height just to make that work out on a back of the napkin "four thirds earth" horizon calculation.. now we start taking about reliever sensitivity, antenna gain, and ERP...
frankly don't see how they get anywhere close to 60 miles
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Take the TX to the top of one mountain, the RX to another... It's a gimmick for sure, but with LoRa people are seeing 15km real world in less than ideal conditions, obviously less in urban areas.
Re: Deployment issue (Score:2)
97km?... Well that trips my BS meter but not my RF meter...
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Yeah, Sony can't defy the laws of physics. At 920MHz, you'll get line of sight plus maybe 15% over the horizon and that's all. Even with reflectivity in urban areas, weak signal detection with good receivers in a somewhat crowded band, Sony just bullshitted through another press release.
Sadder still, such stuff will get cracked like an egg, for sport.
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On stuff I've worked with for long range, it does require a lot of site planning. Having Sony claim a 60 mile range for moving objects seems a bit of a stretch. It's a tough problem.
If what Sony says is real it would solve a lot of the headaches. But then, this is just a press release and press releases often appear before the research begins. All it takes is a CEO to announce a pie-in-the-sky project and then the marketing team starts spreading the news everywhere before the engineering team has finished
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Depends on who controls a nations sim cards.
Paying too much for each and every phone home?
Got a new network to try and its "free".
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So this looks like you would need a city to sign up to deploy this network
I don't think they need much more than FCC approval. Cities would like you to think you need their permission to put up an antenna. But this is not really the case.
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Cities would like you to think you need their permission to put up an antenna. But this is not really the case.
You don't need their permission for an antenna, but you do need their permission for a tower.
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but you do need their permission for a tower
Existing building or power pole will often do. And given utility sharing of poles and other structures, they have become a big real estate business. Power and telephone companies have transferred their ownership and franchises to tower companies. And then they lease space back. You mess with the company that's putting in 'towers' and the next thing you know, nobody gets new electrical service.
Re: Deployment issue (Score:1)
Hacking time? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re: Hacking time? (Score:1)
It's an oxymoron. So while a good idea for ironic humor, not good for much else.
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It's an oxymoron. So while a good idea for ironic humor, not good for much else.
But ms are saying their new thing will be secure by default. Who to believe?
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So developing inherently secure hardware is a dumb idea?
Yes, if you are competing in a market free of regulation, in a country without robust liability laws, and competition is purely on price-point. Developing anything remotely resembling secure is a very expensive proposition - you need to have knowledgeable people take time to do it right and you have to spend time on QA. The only way to get this done and still have reasonable price point is if you have volumes that Google/Amazon do. Otherwise, the only question if you cut all corners, or if some are just too
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A component manufacturer has about as much Give-A-Fuck concern about cybersecurity as a smartphone antenna manufacturer does. They're just providing a new-and-improved comm channel. What YOU do to secure it, is YOUR business, not theirs.
So say this thing transmits all its data out in the open for anyone with the right kit to look at. That's someone else's problem to secure? What about this eltres network thing, who's job is it to make sure that's secure?
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That's basically what happens now with a large number of industrial/commercial IoT networks.
For example, meter readings. Some systems just broadcast your water meter reading, or your gas meter reading, periodically on some free frequency like 433 or 915Mhz. Unencrypted, simple packet format, send out blindly ever few seconds. Then when a vehicle drives past, often one that is going there anyway like a rubbish collection truck, the value is recorded.
Of course it means anyone with a cheap receiver can read yo
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Yes. What would you suggest as an alternative? This thing is a chip. Should it have encryption keys built in? Sony presumably learned that's a bad idea.
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IoT hardware manufacturers have a much-deserved reputation for not even paying lip service to security - the rest of the industry at least does that.
But this is Sony we're talking about. Their IoT chip will ship with a rootkit to guarantee your security.
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LoRaWAN (widely deployed, non-proprietary) has 128 bit security.
https://www.thethingsnetwork.o... [thethingsnetwork.org]
Bandwidth (Score:4, Interesting)
If I interpreted the information correctly, the payload is 128 bits of data over a 3 minute period (that is the minimum time / fastest refresh rate allowed). I'm not sure if the minimum refresh time of 3 minutes reflects that actual transport time (probably so), or if that is some kind of arbitrary delay to enforce the kind of usage they are desiring for this technology (and to allow whatever user load they are anticipating on the network in a given geographic proximity).
This is also "one way" transmission (originates from the mobile devices), which is presumably because the receivers and antennas must be large / bulky / distributed for this to work. Thus this same technology cannot be used to send data back to the mobile devices.
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You read correctly..
This is LOW bandwidth data transmission that isn't useful for anything approaching even a low bandwidth, low resolution, video signal. This will be limited to basic telemetry use. Given the transmit delays, data correction overhead and deconfliction protocols, this is going to be limited to things like remote weather reporting with low update intervals, sensing non-time critical events, or even small amounts of telemetry where long latency is OK.
Further, this isn't "new" technology i
Too late... (Score:2)
You lost me at "Sony's proprietary" (Score:2, Funny)
No fucking way am I going to buy into that.
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No fucking way am I going to buy into that.
Silly rabbit, you think you will have a choice. Something like that will be included into every IoT, car, TV and appliance so Sony can make money selling your data. If you don't like it - you are welcome to go back to using Nokia flip phone (still on original battery charge).
Proprietary (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't care if this thing as a 6,000 mile range, I am decidedly unexcited about signing up for a Sony-proprietary anything. Please place it in the pile next to Betamax, MemoryStick, and ATRAC.
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Yeah... if they release this as an open standard like Wi-Fi or Zigbee, then you'll get developers interested. Otherwise, most of them aren't going to be interested in paying a "Sony Tax" on their new IoT products no matter how good the range is.
Besides, I'd imagine that it probably doesn't cost all that much to embed a GSM or LTE cellular modem into your product nowadays. Those will work wherever you can get good cellular coverage.
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Cellular modems require a payment/account. That makes them a no-go for many areas. Plus the whole "good cellular coverage" thing.
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Cellular modems require a payment/account. That makes them a no-go for many areas. Plus the whole "good cellular coverage" thing.
guess what? ELTRES is a Sony-managed network [sony-semicon.co.jp]. It's going to require a payment/account.
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LoRaWAN is a good more open alternative.
https://lora-alliance.org/abou... [lora-alliance.org]
https://www.thethingsnetwork.o... [thethingsnetwork.org]
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It's not for you, it's for industrial customers who have had a good run with Sony gear. Betamax may have failed in the consumer space, but was quite successful in the commercial sector, for example.
They will buy these things in vast quantities and run their own networks with them. Usual guaranteed availability for 10+ years, plenty of advance notice of last buy times, high probability of successor compatible products.
FeliCA (Score:1)
LoRaWAN (Score:2)
LoRaWAN came out in 2012 and there are open deployments of network nodes (https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/). Sony's solution looks interesting though. It is uplink only, which limits the applications a bit.
Japan? Seriously? (Score:2)
The Capitalistic Party (the largest political party in the US, thanks to the Citizens United call by SCOTUS) will be rolling out the anti-competitive, US job-protecting Huawie misinformation smear campaign to block Japan.
Isn't this article a bit sensationalistic? (Score:2)
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Very useful for remote sensors (Score:2)
128b every three minutes, receive-only is plenty for most weather station platforms I've dealt with. Usualy a pair of 12 bit temperatures (sun/shade possibly wet/dry bulb), some measure of insolation (10 bits for watts/m^2 or moles/m2/s). Wind direction is usually 10 bits (8 bits in crappy cheapo systems), and 10 bits for wind speed. Add some more bits for overhead, error checking, a rain gauge. Up to 60 miles from any mountain top relay. This would be a lot cheaper than sat links.
Heck, I'd love some easy s
IOT (Score:2)
Things companies want connected to the internet, that really don't need connecting to the internet...
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This looks like a parallel cellular network (Score:2)
Also, from the press release [orix.co.jp], it looks like you need service.
TOKYO, Japan – October 25, 2018 – ORIX Corporation (“ORIX”), Sony Network Communications Inc. (“Sony Network Communi
60 miles? (Score:2)
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I used to work at a Radio shop and me and a former coworker have been bickering over this, as I said what you said.
They end units actually connect to a low-power wide-area (LPWA) ELTRES. I'm going to say that they figure the LPWA will be configured to cover about a 60 mile radius, with a bunch of receivers ALL OVER THE PLACE (like a cell tower network).
Specs say the antenna is putting out something like 20 mW. The 60 mile thing has to be something that was lost in translation. I call BS.
There is no specs g
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All right. Trying to find something with a similar power that does somewhat the same thing. Take a look at this:
https://www.cooking-hacks.com/... [cooking-hacks.com]
25 mW transmitter, getting 1.6 miles urban and 13 miles clear LOS real world testing. This sounds much closer to what you would really get out of the Sony device.
Wrong headline (Score:2)
I used to like Sony before they became a media company and let the media team destroy the feature set of the electronics team's products. They do have a habit of going down their own path sometimes instead of following the industry trend and
60 miles ... at 920 Mhz ... not honest (Score:2)
At that frequency you're limited to line of sight distances. So the only way the range indicated happens is in the vacuum of space or with an extremely high tower. And in the latter case that kind of range isn't particularly special