Is Ham Radio a Hobby, a Utility, or Both? A Battle Over Spectrum Heats Up (ieee.org) 185
Some think automated radio emails are mucking up the spectrum reserved for amateur radio, while others say these new offerings provide a useful service. Wave723 writes: Like many amateur radio fans his age, Ron Kolarik, 71, still recalls the "pure magic" of his first ham experience nearly 60 years ago. Lately, though, encrypted messages have begun to infiltrate the amateur bands in ways that he says are antithetical to the spirit of this beloved hobby. So Kolarik filed a petition, RM-11831 [PDF], to the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC) proposing a rule change to "Reduce Interference and Add Transparency to Digital Data Communications." And as the proposal makes its way through the FCC's process, it has stirred up heated debate that goes straight to the heart of what ham radio is, and ought to be. The core questions: Should amateur radio -- and its precious spectrum -- be protected purely as a hobby, or is it a utility that delivers data traffic? Or is it both? And who gets to decide?
Since Kolarik filed his petition in late 2018, this debate has engulfed the ham world. Fierce defenders of both sides have filed passionate letters and comments to the FCC arguing their cases. On one side is Kolarik in Nebraska. In his view, it's all rather simple: "Transparency is a core part of ham radio," he says. "And yet, you can find tons of traffic from automatic[ally controlled digital] stations that are extremely difficult to identify, if you can identify them at all, and they cause interference." The automatically controlled digital stations (ACDS) Kolarik refers to can serve to power services like Winlink, a "global radio email" system. Overseen and operated by licensed volunteers around the globe, Winlink is funded and guided by the Amateur Radio Safety Foundation, Inc. (ARSFI). The service uses amateur and government radio frequencies around the globe to send email messages by radio. Users initiate the transmission through an Internet connection, or go Internet-free and use smart-network radio relays.
On Winlink's website, the service says it provides its licensed users the ability to send email with attachments, plus messages about their positions, and weather and information bulletins. Representatives of the service say it also allows users to participate in emergency and disaster relief communications. But Kolarik's petition argues two points: First, because such messages "are not readily and freely able to be decoded," the FCC should require all digital codes to use protocols that "can be monitored in entirety by third parties with freely available, open-source software." Secondly, he wants the rule change to reduce the interference that he says services like Winlink can create between amateur-to-amateur stations -- by relegating the often-unattended automatic stations to operate solely on narrower sub-bands. Loring Kutchins, the president of ARSFI, says he believes Kolarik's petition is "well intentioned in its basis. But the fundamental conflict is between people who believe amateur radio is about hobby, not about utility. But nowhere do the FCC rules use the word 'hobby.'"
Since Kolarik filed his petition in late 2018, this debate has engulfed the ham world. Fierce defenders of both sides have filed passionate letters and comments to the FCC arguing their cases. On one side is Kolarik in Nebraska. In his view, it's all rather simple: "Transparency is a core part of ham radio," he says. "And yet, you can find tons of traffic from automatic[ally controlled digital] stations that are extremely difficult to identify, if you can identify them at all, and they cause interference." The automatically controlled digital stations (ACDS) Kolarik refers to can serve to power services like Winlink, a "global radio email" system. Overseen and operated by licensed volunteers around the globe, Winlink is funded and guided by the Amateur Radio Safety Foundation, Inc. (ARSFI). The service uses amateur and government radio frequencies around the globe to send email messages by radio. Users initiate the transmission through an Internet connection, or go Internet-free and use smart-network radio relays.
On Winlink's website, the service says it provides its licensed users the ability to send email with attachments, plus messages about their positions, and weather and information bulletins. Representatives of the service say it also allows users to participate in emergency and disaster relief communications. But Kolarik's petition argues two points: First, because such messages "are not readily and freely able to be decoded," the FCC should require all digital codes to use protocols that "can be monitored in entirety by third parties with freely available, open-source software." Secondly, he wants the rule change to reduce the interference that he says services like Winlink can create between amateur-to-amateur stations -- by relegating the often-unattended automatic stations to operate solely on narrower sub-bands. Loring Kutchins, the president of ARSFI, says he believes Kolarik's petition is "well intentioned in its basis. But the fundamental conflict is between people who believe amateur radio is about hobby, not about utility. But nowhere do the FCC rules use the word 'hobby.'"
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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You missed the point.
This is Slashdot, the answer to an "or" question is almost always going to be "yes" or "no" unless you are talking quantum physics or some other context (religion? metaphysics?) where the answer does't exist yet (because it hasn't been measured) or it's some "not binary, neither yes nor no" type of answer.
Isn't there room for both? (Score:3)
Parcel up the frequencies so that some are preserved for voice, and some are preserved for data. Done and done.
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Sorry, I meant human voice. Anyway, if there's rules already, then go forth and enforce them.
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It's already like that.
Re:Isn't there room for both? (Score:5, Informative)
You mean like this? http://www.arrl.org/files/file... [arrl.org]
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The problem is the ARRL has outgrown it's britches.
It is like todays unions, it is more interested in generating revenue than protecting my given rights.
It will put it's own preservation above my interests.
In other words it will not ask the hard questions and only beat around the fringes and be a lacky to the FCC acting as it's enforcement arm.
The FCC is the problem. It is run by bureaucrats that all have their roots in the communications industry and they are puppets for the corps sucking up any gravy that
Re:Isn't there room for both? (Score:4, Insightful)
Be glad there is an ARRL and similar organisations. Without it, there won't be a spectrum. For example, in IARU Region 1 (where I live) there is talks among the 'others' (than HAM organisations) wanting to 'give' everything around 2m to aviation because that apparently needs a continuous spectrum with more capacity. No secondary usage... say bye to 2m, the most used band by novices and relays. If that happens I can throw away or have to modify most of my equipment because I'll no longer be licensed to own it. And no doubt it will have a ripple effect because currently 2m is globally harmonized and then no longer is.
The HAM radio spectrum is 'gracefully' (ahem ahem, you may say grudgingly) granted to us for non-commercial use because we are hobby radio amateurs and apparently there are folks among us that enrich the sciences and help develop new applications that can be used on the commercial bands later, we are useful for local emergency services (which won't be endangered because, when the shit hits the fan anything goes, including using 'forbidden' spectrum), and apparently we are perceived a likable, 'dear old grampa' kinda lot (which I abhor... because we really need more young people interested in electrotechnical hobbies, of which HAM radio is one of them. By the way, I'm with 42 one of the youngest full licensed active amateur in our region). Without that, commerce and government is all to happy to snap up our spectrum and we would be powerless to stop them. Do you really think you can elect officials in office that will look upon the hobby favourably? Have you actually -noticed- the people that get elected to office nowadays and do you think they would give a flying fuck about HAM radio if there is money involved? Or maybe you think you can use the fourth box and unchain a revolution for the air waves?
Besides, if I want to e-mail, I use Google and if I want to e-mail securely, I set up my own server and use the internet. Again, in case of emergency, anything goes and rules are applied flexibly. Keep it for that, and keep regular usage of the amateur spectrum clean of encrypted utillity usage. Do not piss into your own pond!
73, PG8W.
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That's the second half of what Kolarik is asking for. The ARSFI is fighting him on it, though they might care more about the first half of what Kolarik wants - requiring all communications to be in a decodable format. That would completely destroy the encrypted email over radio service, which seems like a bit much to ask for to me.
I think just splitting the spectrum is a reasonable compromise. HAM might primarily be a hobby, but the spectrum it operates under is a limited resource with non-hobby utility. Ac
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That would completely destroy the encrypted email over radio service, which seems like a bit much to ask for to me.
There is no "encrypted email over radio". The Rules already prohibit that.
I think just splitting the spectrum is a reasonable compromise.
The spectrum is already split between data and phone. The problem is that there is no differentiation between different methods of data. There are already rules about automated systems, too.
Accommodations should be made to allow for other uses of the spectrum.
The majority of the spectrum, in the most limited bands, already cannot be used for automated data systems. I think there are already accommodations for all kinds of uses.
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Parcel up the frequencies so that some are preserved for voice, and some are preserved for data. Done and done.
Gee you invented a "Band Plan" which already exists as others have pointed out. Where it's NOT absolutely required that you follow the band plan as a matter of regulation, being a considerate Ham operator pretty much requires it. Some folks, either though ignorance or just plain stupidity and selfishness, just don't follow the Band Plans... You DO however have to follow the emission type rules.... So voice only in the voice parts of the bands, code in the code sections etc..
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So voice only in the voice parts of the bands,
Look more closely at the permissible emissions. CW is permitted everywhere, even in presumable "voice only" bands.
Licensed operator for over 35 years (Score:5, Insightful)
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70cm is also hampered along the coasts by its use in air defense radars. Repeaters near me have gotten letters from the USAF primary user demanding that they reduce their signal level at a radar facility by 50dB.
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It wasn't 70cm....it was the 1.25M band at 220mhz. Hams lost 220mhz to 222mhz to UPS. The 70cm thing is a geographic limitation due to the fact Canada has a smaller 70cm band than the US.
And then UPS decided that the system was unworkable and stopped using it.
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That was the 1.25 meter band... not 70cm.
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This is gonna bite them in the ass someday.
Suuuuure you can redirect the spectrum over to monied interests but HAM enthusiasts serve multiple purposes and not just "amateur radio". In rare cases of destructive disasters having some radio experts on hand means you can still communicate even when all other telecoms are down. The point of HAM radio enthusiasts isn't just that they "like radios". Being a licensed operator assures you also know the ins-and-outs of those radios, how to build them, and how to serv
You're half right (Score:2)
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Good luck with that.
I'm referring to the current International row over 2m (144-148mhz). Not sure what traction it will gain, but let's say it passes, what do you do with all the 2m equipment? You just KNOW folks will be upset and splatter all over the band (reference: listen to 80m sometime ....). FCC doesn't have the manpower to fight it all.
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HAM radios are still useful for emergencies. Just because they are very old doesn't mean they're useless.
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You haven’t lived until you’ve driven around America with an SDR transmitting on the aircraft band just to randomly turn airfield lights on.
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Just do what I do. I transmit over whatever the **** I want. F*** the FCC!
And you talk to yourself a lot eh? It's no fun unless someone is listening so just transmitting on random frequencies isn't very much fun.
Good luck with your FCC wishes. They may not be very active in the enforcement area, but they DO enforcement from time to time. Such actions may take decades to run to completion, but even if the wheels grind slowly, they grind fine. If anybody is risking getting F'ed it's not the FCC... They don't care, until they do, then get ready to brace yourself.
Ham radio is hobby, utility, and more (Score:3, Insightful)
Amateur Radio is a Service and a Hobby (Score:5, Informative)
FCC Part 97:
Subpart Aâ"General Provisions Â97.1 Basis and purpose. The rules and regulations in this part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:
(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.
(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.
(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art.
(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.
(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
So, as you can see, it is clearly a service, but it is a voluntary noncommercial one, which makes it a hobby.
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I'm not sure if I would characterize volunteer emergency services as a hobby. Is firefighting a hobby, too?
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Is it done regularly during a persons leisure time for pleasure? Maybe by some people?
Amateur radio certainly is.
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It's a service. A communications provider in the case of emergencies that make other communications systems fail.
It provides a public service, a communications resource which includes equipment, trained operators and organizations designed to provide emergency communications resources. All this is provided at no cost to the government as the equipment is provided by the licensees who are organized and trained at their own expense.
I ask you, what would you do if your cell phone and internet providers all
Just like the Knights of Columbus (Score:2)
Amateur radio is a volunteer service activity that fulfils a social role for its participants.
The amateur radio community is also an extremist group promulgating a system of morals at variance with mainstream society.
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Amateur radio is a volunteer service activity that fulfils a social role for its participants.
The amateur radio community is also an extremist group promulgating a system of morals at variance with mainstream society.
LOL... If you mean we like to follow the law and FCC rules and expect others to do this as well, than I guess that makes us kind of extreme in today's age. I mean who needs law and order? Forget all that, we are anarchists, because we don't follow any rule, except we don't follow rules.
Enjoy your life in the lock-up.. I for one, generally like to follow rules and stay out of trouble, so I guess it's clear to me now why I'm also a ham.
One who is not a Knight (Score:2)
Belonging to the Knights of Columbus can create some public dissent in being confirmed to a Federal Court. The people complaining are high elected officials, so they are not in lock-up -- yet.
Perhaps being a ham can have the same effect?
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I do believe that any digital modes used in the Amateur bands should be open source. Any modes or protocols that require paying for a license would seem to go against the spirit of the FCC's rules. I use C4FM, psk modes, Olivia, etc, myself, and it pisses some folks off because they can't easily listen into my conversations using their scanners. I get it, and I think it is a grey area. Perhaps the FCC should regulate digital modes? That would come at the cost of innovation though.
47 CFR 97.113 (a) 5 is 100% clear on this (Score:5, Informative)
Part 97 also specifies that there should be no pecuniary interest, meaning compensation for services, except for those related to the service.
What Part 97 doesn't specify is that its licensees are hobbyists, but that is completely irrelevant. The FCC, in agreement with the IARU, has agreed to set certain conditions for licensing and the use of the spectrum within the agreed-upon areas.
The folks who run Winlink are using the same arguments as the folks who ran Backpage or Craigslist "personals", i.e. that they don't know anything and don't control what goes over their services. The reality is that they, like Backpage or Craigslist, are facilitating unlawful communication and allowing a lot of folks (e.g. mariners) to avoid using commercial paid marine radio and satellite data services. It's even worse when considering the high frequency trading data that has been going on in the amateur radio bands.
This all has to stop. The FCC needs to step in and start issuing huge fines, if not criminal referrals to federal prosecutors. If these folks don't like the law as written, they can work to change it using legal means. Until then, they shouldn't get their way. Their dislike of it doesn't somehow allow them to flout regulations any more than if they were on police bands or cellular or broadcast or aircraft frequencies. It's good that this battle is finally being fought.
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The reality is that they, like Backpage or Craigslist, are facilitating unlawful communication and allowing a lot of folks (e.g. mariners) to avoid using commercial paid marine radio and satellite data services.
You seem to be implying that mariners that use Winlink instead of paying a commercial carrier are running afoul of the law. If so, that's a bad law on it's face: unethical (why should the law require paid carriers for communications, if not for the carrier's benefit alone?), difficult to enforce, and difficult to communicate.
If not, then can you elaborate on what you meant vs what you said?
Re:47 CFR 97.113 (a) 5 is 100% clear on this (Score:4, Informative)
...why should the law require paid carriers for communications...?
His quote doesn't say that the law requires paid carriers for communications. His quote indicates that the law forbids commercial carriers from using free public spectrum.
There is value in Hobbies. (Score:5, Insightful)
The personal computer revolution came out of the Hobby groups. A lot of Art and Ligature comes from hobbies as well.
A Vibrant Hobby Community, is extremely important to our economy and our well being.
There is massive value with professionals, and specialists as they spend most of the time working on a particular subject to make it optimal... However the Hobby group isn't always about getting it right, but trying different methods and tricks, and often have limitations that professionals people don't have. So new ideas come from these limitations.
HAM Radio community is a vital infrastructure. Professional Radio Spectrum and other formal communication infrastructure can be targeted, and are at whim of cost vs benefit. If there is a problem with such formal communication infrastructure. Or natural disaster. Those HAM Radio Enthusiasts will probably be the only source of communication out there. As your Cell will be out, and employees for these big companies will not report to work to keep an infrastructure going when they are trapped.
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Trust me...
Many new innovations you see in high end computers come right out of the hobbyist community. It's still just as strong as it always was.
And yes- I am a licensed ham.
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Agreed. The hobbyist computer scene is definitely still out there (heard of Raspberry Pi?) and is pretty much as big as it ever was. It's much smaller than the newer appliance computing scene, but that's not because it's shrunk--it's just that appliance computing has gotten so universal.
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An old HAM I worked with when I was young (I'm over 70 nor) Told me, "We call HAMS who didn't make their own capacitors using foil and wax paper Appliance Operators".
Re:There is value in Hobbies. (Score:4, Informative)
The personal computer revolution came out of the Hobby groups. A lot of Art and Ligature comes from hobbies as well.
I'm gueßing this includes a lot of Unix dæmons too.
Winlink - Amature Radio Evolved (Score:2, Interesting)
I've been a Ham for around 55 years. I got my novice license when I was 13. Long enough to see many achievements brought about through ham radio enthusiasts, including Ham radio's very own satellite for communications. In the 1960's, 10 meters, 2 meters, and the 455 Mhz bands were basically unusable due to the technology of the day. Then came the repeaters and the radios that could operate at those frequencies, which became the chat lines of Ham radio (parallel to the CB craze). Throughout Ham Radio's histo
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I'm a HAM, though not a very active one. The only reason I was interested in getting a license was for data transfer. I don't care about talking on HAM bands - it just seems kind of useless given all the other easier ways we have for talking. But data transfer (winlink, APRS etc.) seems quite interesting for younger HAMS. Also setting up mesh networks sometimes requires a HAM license for higher power output.
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It's an interesting hobby project, but the practical uses for such a network are very limited. Not just by the ban on encryption, but the ban on commercial traffic and on third-party traffic. You can built your mesh with ham bands, but then you can't allow anyone without a ham license to use it. I got into ham for data comms myself, but I quickly became disillusioned: There's hardly anyone around who still cares about that, now that mobile phones and the internet are around. The only data modes you're likel
Re:Winlink - Amature Radio Evolved (Score:4, Interesting)
While I get what you are saying, the law clearly states that encryption on the ham bands is illegal in the US. We don't get to ignore it because it's inconvenient. It's not a horrible argument, but it's one that needs to be taken up with FCC and Congress, not just going ahead and transmitting encrypted data anyway.
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The fact that the emails are typically encrypted is understandable
They are not typically encrypted, and it is illegal to do so, at least in the US. This is a request to change US laws.
as this can protect many people in countries where any type of communication services are vigorously suppressed.
If the communication service of amateur radio is vigorously suppressed, then the user is not a licensed amateur radio operator, and communication by a US amateur with him is illegal. The issue being debated has nothing to do with suppression of amateur radio in certain countries.
No, you can't casually "read the mail" (old Ham talk for listening in on a conversation) as the emails go across. Nor should you be able to.
Yes, absolutely you should be able to. Amateur radio in the US is self-policing. That means it is in everyone's b
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It's the same in my similar large city. Where the radio clubs used to be very active and maintained and invested in top quality repeaters. 2M, 70cm, 12.GHz, analog and DSTAR and even some clubs with 900MHz and the Yaesu digital format I forget the name of. All of that was huge 10 years ago.
Now, more than half the repeaters have died and not been repaired. The clubs are dying. Meetings have faded. Weekly nets have just ended. Sunday nights around here used to have net after net after net, sometimes
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and the Yaesu digital format I forget the name of.
It used to be "C4FM", now it's "Fusion". Like P25 but not the same. If it were P25 compatible, people could buy non-Yaesu radios to use it.
But Yaesu does have a good buy-in program for repeater operators. $700 for a frequency-agile, dual band capable repeater in a box. 2m or 440, either up or down. The only catch is that you have to put it up for a year as at least an AMS (automatic mode switching) repeater. It has to be able to do Fusion. The controller really sucks -- basic functions only.
The previous
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"Ham radio is dying" is contrary to the fact that there are more licensed operators now than any time in the service's history.
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Talking to people is dying, data services aren't. E.g. In the FPV / RC Aircraft community it's common to get licensed so you can legally operate with better antennas and more powerful transmitters. That's what I use mine for. I wanted to do APRS for telemetry too, but the dirt cheap PSK31 modules have met my needs well enough. I'll probably pass on APRS and jump to LoRaWan next.
KJ4QCU
Under the current gov't (Score:2)
If the citizens of the US are for something, the gov't will take the opposite stance. So kiss your spectrum goodbye, which pisses me off, as I was thinking about getting into the hobby to listen in on numbers stations.
Yes I can do it online (WebSDR IIRC http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8... [utwente.nl])
But it's not the same...
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as I was thinking about getting into the hobby to listen in on numbers stations.
You do not need to be a licensed amateur to listen to numbers stations. If all you're doing is listening to them, then you are not "getting into the hobby".
Government (Score:2)
Weâ(TM)ve handed over control everything to the government. What rights does a human have anymore other than what meager scraps government is willing to provide?
Nothing New (Score:3)
People have been grousing about Winlink from the beginning, mostly because a few people on ocean going yachts use it for email instead of using a commercial band service.
2017 Hurricane Maria Puerto Rico hams activated (Score:1)
The Red Cross activated ham radio operators in 2017 after Hurricane Maria:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27... [cnn.com]
A possibly-biased summary of some post-event discussion from early 2018 is here:
https://www.hamradio.me/emcomm... [hamradio.me]
For more, fire up your favorite search engine and search for something along the lines of ham radio use in Puerto Rico after hurricane maria.
Posted by an AC who has been a ham since 2010 and a Slashdot contributor for even longer.
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This seems to be the only argument for ham radio. "But what about the emergency services!?"
However if the frequencies could be sold for a few billion dollars we could put 30 professionals on federal payroll for $30m a year or less to fly them to wherever they're needed within a few hours of any disaster, setup and maintain repeaters etc.
And we could operate that program effectively indefinitely with the money raised. The question becomes if it makes sense to achieve the same outcome for less money or use
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It's actually worse than that. Ham radio used to be an absolutely essential service in emergencies, yes - but these days, a major emergency means the government will soon be going in with satellite radios, mesh radios, and pop-up cell towers. The only need for hams is in situations where people want to send personal messages, or if the government response is completely inept (Hams got to play an important role in Puerto Rico for that reason). Communications technology has improved to the point where you no
Considering.... (Score:1)
Considering this is Slashdot can we somehow blame Microsoft for this?
Have to go look this up (Score:2)
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APRS is the last remnant of the once-great packet radio. A ham-run internet, before the internet - source-routing, full network stack, mailbox and BBS services. Really cool stuff in the day, but it faded into disuse years ago - you'll have a hard time finding a packet BBS now, but it does still serve as the underlying transport for APRS.
Sorry, I can't read the petition. (Score:2)
No, a bigger issue is 2m reallocation (Score:5, Informative)
Who cares about how people use the frequency. What matters is there's a proposal to reallocate part of the 2m spectrum (144-148MHz) for aeronautical use (specifically, 144-146MHz).
This is currently on the ITU proposal stage, set to be debated in 2023.
Yes, it's a long ways away, but arguing over usage is less important if you lose the band in the first place.
And yes, you can't just arbitrarily take it over - after all, the only thing slower than frequency allocations is aviation, so while full reallocation will easily take a decade or more (and even then, aviation will probably take two or three decades to start using the band - ADS-B has been around for at least close to two decades and it's still optional (mandatory in 2020 in the US, but other countries will be optional).
It can't be a ulitity (Score:2)
If you need a license to use it, it can't be a utility because every other utility can be accessed without a license. You don't need to pass a test to use the phone or water or electricity. Yes, I know, some people should but that's a separate issue.
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"They see kids "Anyone under 50" stating the benefits of Socialism (Mostly the European Model), and linking it Soviet Style Communism"
This used to bother me, but now I find it funny. You youngsters will indeed eventually turn the U.S. socialist, and will be utterly amazed when the country becomes an utter shithole within a decade. And by that point, it will be impossible for you to turn it back into what it was. If it EVER returns to greatness, it will be many, many generations hence.
Enjoy!
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What you are missing is that nobody is trying anything new, and they are not revisiting old ideas "because conditions have changed." The revisiting old ideas in total ignorance thinking they are somehow new ideas.
Revisiting an old failed idea makes sense when and only when you have think you might know why it failed. These people don't know that. They just know in a very ill defined way they are unsatisfied with their lives and rather than work on themselves they have decided make everyone else miserable a
Old men fix what the youth break (Score:2, Insightful)
They are largely ignorant of history and seem compelled to re-learn lessons the hard way. They fail to realize that "Democratic Socialism" is another name for Marxism. That the actions of a group define its nature not the words in its name, for example the violent element of antifa are actually fascists despite the "anti" in their name, li
HAM radio only a hobby until next nat disaster (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Old men fix what the youth break (Score:4, Insightful)
They are largely ignorant of history and seem compelled to re-learn lessons the hard way. They fail to realize that "Democratic Socialism" is another name for Marxism.
This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock, powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated television channels to see what the National Weather Service and National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking prescription medications which have been determined as safe by the US Food and Drug Administration.
At the appropriate time, as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile. I set out to work on the roads built by local, state, and federal departments of transportation, sometimes stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality determined by the Environmental Protection Agency. I pay for that fuel using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve. While at the gas station, I deposit any mail I have to be sent into the mailbox, to be delivered by the US postal service. I then drop off my children at the public school where they will be provided an education curriculum of a standard defined by local and state governments.
After work, I drive my NHTSA car back on DOT roads to my home, which has not burned down or been burglarized in my absence thanks, in part, to local and state building codes, municipal inspections agencies, and local fire and police departments.
I then log on to the internet, developed by the Defense Advance Research Projects Administration and post on slashdot thread about how democratic socialism is the same as marxism.
Apologies to the original, unknown author
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Bullshit. Nobody sends mail any more!
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They are largely ignorant of history and seem compelled to re-learn lessons the hard way. They fail to realize that "Democratic Socialism" is another name for Marxism.
This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock, powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy.
Thats all nice and cute but irrelevant. Words have meaning, when you combine "democratic socialism" it refers to a specific thing. Just like when you combine the words "German national socialism" it refers to a specific things as well.
Just because something contains the word "socialism" doesn't mean that in your ignorance you can assume its comparable to the public/private "socialist" policies we have in the US.
Bernie uses "democratic socialist" in the same sense as Marx, which being a good marxist is
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Feel free to rip out that nasty government funded TCP/IP network stack and replace it with IPX/SPX and post us your reply.
Silly little boy, government funded and public/private partnerships are not the same things as government owned and operated. The key word being "operated". Seems like that is pretty much private sector today (and yesterday) isn't it".
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Ah yes, the everyone that disagrees with me is either young or stupid (and by default all young people are dumb).
Let me guess, you're a boomer?
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Ah yes, the everyone that disagrees with me is either young or stupid (and by default all young people are dumb). Let me guess, you're a boomer?
Bad guess, Gen X. Just one that is open minded -- conservative on some things, liberal on others and libertarian on still others -- and without the baggage of political lens filtering out reality I may have picked up on things faster than some. I ... I ... learned from the mistakes of others, not just my own.
Perhaps you might consider that you are simply wrong about old people and are simply regurgitating old tropes (ironic isn't it). Having a more open mind and being somewhat inquisitive I have been abl
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Not just a Boomer, a CONservative Boomer. You haven't read his other "posts", have you?
Actually I agree with conservatives on some things, liberals on others and on still others my libertarian streak wins out. But you seem to be the silly sort of person that assumes disagreement must mean someone of opposing politics as you. You might consider you are simply wrong and political orientations have nothing to do with it. Reality beats political lens, but realizing that takes time. You may yet understand these things one day.
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No in contrast my parents who are Boomers Are seeing things change faster then they can keep up with, are seeing every change as a threat to be fought.
I'm a Boomer and...you're dead right. Our parents left us a world of scientific discovery, which we chose to scorn, and majestic infrastructure, which we failed to develop further for the generations to come after us. We are the NIMBYs, the No Nukers and the GMO labelers who have left today's young people without a future, unless you can one day import one from China.
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Silicon Valley and all it has produced was one of our bright spots, but for every Gates and Jobs there are a hundred Boomers, many of them right here in these threads, still trashing their inventions from the lazy perspective of not looking at the big picture evolution of the technologies involved. The space program - largely a Greatest achievement when it got its start, and fifty years ago this month when the streets emptied as our parents gathered around the TV set to watch Apollo, my generation's respons
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Like all generations, it's a very diverse group.
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Home Depot does sell both guns and ammunition. You just have to know where to look.
Re:Meh (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Meh (Score:4, Insightful)
Encryption is illegal in ham radio transmissions if the purpose is to obscure the meaning of the communications. (See Part 97) However, if the purpose of the algorithm is to encode something, then some argue that even if it results in obscuring the communications, it is OK. An example would be D-Star, which is a encoding/compression digital algorithm that is a based on a propriety CODEC.
I think the FCC is going to need to rework the regulations some time soon, but I'll be darned if I can figure out how to carve this baby up. I have a feeling that the FCC is going to fall on the side of keeping things as open as they can and may deep six propriety wave forms and encoding techniques. But on the other hand, you KNOW that Icom will pitch a fit and drop a bit of cash to keep D-Star in play.... The question is if the $$ spend on lobbing efforts will make a difference. I doubt it. Actually, I doubt the FCC Will act at all... Ham radio is of little importance to them these days, with fewer than a Million licensed hams in rotation with fewer and fewer as the old guys like me die off.
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I would be satisfied if all proprietary modulations and encodings were required to be fully documented and free to implement. D-Star meets neither requirement and it has been a big pain because of it.
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tl;dr..
There are newer styles of transmission that cannot be decoded without custom, proprietary, hardware. On one hand, these setups are useful in that they are faster and more resilient to noise and such. They are also able to inter-operate with first responder systems. So they can be very useful for ham operators to have available in emergencies.
On the other hand, a key point of ham radio is transparency. Encryption is outright forbidden, as are some systems like spread spectrum that cannot be decoded by
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There are newer styles of transmission that cannot be decoded without custom, proprietary, hardware.
Name one. If it can be done in hardware, it can be done in software. It might not be in real-time, but nothing in the rules requires real-time monitoring ability.
They are also able to inter-operate with first responder systems.
Well, since hams cannot transmit on the first responder frequencies legally, that's moot.
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Name one. If it can be done in hardware, it can be done in software. It might not be in real-time, but nothing in the rules requires real-time monitoring ability.
GP is probably referring to the custom chips [dvsinc.com] used for D-STAR, which implemented a patented codec. I believe there are software decoders, but these likely infringe on the patents.
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GP is probably referring to the custom chips used for D-STAR, which implemented a patented codec. I believe there are software decoders, but these likely infringe on the patents.
There are open source decoders -- at least one I found immediately with a simple google search.
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Sure, but they infringe on patents, and are thus illegal in the US. There are a few now. D-Star, Fusion, DMR, etc.. Keep in mind, I'm not saying it's bad that they exist or are used by hams. I'm just pointing out some of the objections some people have. I don't own any devices that use them, so I don't have a horse in the race. Just pointing out why some people are irritated.
I believe the article is referring to newer versions of PACTOR. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
There also seems to be some irritatio
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Sure, but they infringe on patents, and are thus illegal in the US.
As a user, you can use patented stuff. You just can't sell it.
There also seems to be some irritation directed toward winlink systems that relay encrypted email.
If they are operating in the ham bands, then they are, indeed, illegal, and there is justification for the irritation. But I've not heard of any such systems.
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This is about Pactor, a commercial encoding system for which the codecs are not available to the public, including the FCC, so that those using Pactor cannot be monitored for content.
No available to the public? You can't buy a Pactor modem? Really? I've never seen anyone else say that. Citation required.
Oh, you're unhappy that you might have to buy some hardware to listen to something. Well, code up your own decoder. Here's [scs-ptc.com] details.
Oh, you're unhappy you might have to write some software to do this? Sorry. Nothing in the rules says someone has to hand you a full system to listen to what other people say, only that you can do it.
which was part of the Russian interference in our elections
That explains your entire rant.
But Pactor isn't decodable by other than the intended recipient,
When you lie about somethi
Re:HAMs have long been grumpy old men. (Score:5, Insightful)
There always seemed to be a bit of a fascist tone to HAMs.
Sorry, no, most HAMs seem to be quite libertarian in nature.
They get weird about all the regulations, like... OMG.. playing music over the frequencies!
You realize the music prevents communications on the frequency, frequencies reserved for communications. That the music is a type of Denial of Service Attack for HAMs.
Why is "decoding" some magic thing anyone should be able to do?
Are you of the ignorant belief that HAM is just morse code and does not include regular voice communications? FYI morse has an advantage of being intelligible at longer distances so in some circumstances it is advantageous.
I honestly don't understand the need to listen in on someone else's communication.
Think of it as a web forum, like the one you are on right now. Two people might be communicating, and zero or more might also be listening/reading, but the main purpose is the two people communicating.
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You realize the music prevents communications on the frequency, frequencies reserved for communications.
It's more an issue of music implies copyrights, and copyrights are a commercial thing.
I honestly don't understand the need to listen in on someone else's communication.
Think of it as a web forum, like the one you are on right now. Two people might be communicating, and zero or more might also be listening/reading, but the main purpose is the two people communicating.
Again, this is more like a web forum where everyone is a moderator and everyone is responsible for detecting TOS violations, and the TOS is actually federal law. That's why everyone being able to listen in is important. It's how we detect illegal use of the limited resource. The FCC cannot provide enough coverage to monitor everything, and thus it is our job to monitor ourselves and interlopers.
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That the music is a type of Denial of Service Attack for HAMs.
And HAMs are a type of Denial of Service Attack for the people wanting to broadcast and listen to music over public frequencies.
One man's treasure...
In this case the hams have ownership of the treasure holding the primary operating authority on their frequencies. Go transmit music over the police and fire bands and see how they accept interference, or even the local business band... The primary licensee gets protection from interference, it's what the FCC is required and empowered to do and it would be irresponsible to just let you clobber what ever band you want to transmit music on.
So, as a ham, stay off my spectrum. IF you choose to transmit stuff
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We are a dying group, but the spectrum Hams consume is tiny compared to what's out there. The only real space of value would be the VHF and UHF frequencies where Hams have all the voice repeaters which are the backbone of the public service, emergency communications infrastructure. The rest of the spectrum we use is pretty narrow, on spectrum that's hard to use or already shared with other services.
There is little value to the FCC for 75 Meters or any of the shortwave bands we use, plus the FCC cannot j
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The "magic" of HAM communication went out with the mass-adoption of the internet sometime in the 2000s. HAMs themselves are just weird people. There always seemed to be a bit of a fascist tone to HAMs. They get weird about all the regulations, like... OMG.. playing music over the frequencies!
Hams (and it's not an acronym for anything!) were teh first nerds of my generation, so I have known a lot of them. Amateur radio got established in a time punctuated by two world wars and a Cold War. The odd mess of regulations around it are the lowest common denominator of all the national-level restrictions on private use of radio that had to be satisfied for the service to exist at all.
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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Remember you said that when you or someone you love is laying there after a severe storm with a roof beam laying across your/their back or some similar tragic disaster situation and there's no amateur radio operator emergency volunteers to alert rescue teams.
Amateur radio operator volunteers serve as local storm chasers whenever the threat of tornadoes happen, they provide essential initial emergency communications during earthquakes and other disasters and emergencies as well. Look into the role amateur ra