Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Businesses Technology

France Approves Digital Tax on American Tech Giants, Defying US Trade Threat (cnbc.com) 313

France's Senate approved a tax on the revenues of tech giants like Google, Amazon and Facebook on Thursday, defying a warning from the President Donald Trump administration that it "unfairly targets American companies." From a report: On Wednesday, Trump ordered an investigation into France's planned "digital tax" on tech companies. The 3% tax would apply to the French revenues of roughly 30 major companies, mostly from the U.S. "France is sovereign, and France decides its own tax rules. And this will continue to be the case," France's Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said in a statement. He added the U.S. and France could find agreements, rather than using threats, to reach a deal on the "fair taxation" of internet giants.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

France Approves Digital Tax on American Tech Giants, Defying US Trade Threat

Comments Filter:
  • American Tech giants cut-off/block France?

    • American Tech giant's shareholders will demolish American Tech giant's CEOs for giving up on so much revenue for the sole purpose of trying in vain to make a point.

      Seriously it's hard enough to get this kind of policy through on the likes of China, imagine the backlash for doing it to a western ally, one which provides by nature of the tax needs to provide a company with over 25million EUR in revenue.

    • Re:What if... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Freischutz ( 4776131 ) on Thursday July 11, 2019 @01:00PM (#58908740)

      American Tech giants cut-off/block France?

      You mean what if American Tech giants abandon the European market so that competitors can rise up in a safe American Tech giant free zone to later become fierce competitors of American Tech giants? I sincerely hope they'll do that. However the odds are slim that the American Tech giants will go back to California and sulk because that would completely destroy their ability to crush any and all competitors that could possibly threaten their control of the set of the internet activity they have claimed as their personal fiefdom.

    • American Tech giants cut-off/block France?

      They don't need to do anything of the kind. All they need to do is leverage all the dirt they have collected over the years through data collection on the particular French politicians behind this move and destroy them and their careers for life with a few strategic "leaks", conveniently-timed "data breaches", etc, that reveal career- & reputation-destroying information to the public.

      Elizabeth Warren in the US received a shot across her bow from Facebook after her call to break up FB. Warren's ads sudde

      • I think that they can only risk playing that card once, and they are saving it for something really important. If they get caught stepping on the wrong toes or someone powerful feels threatened, it will be the death blow to the company.

      • I think it's weird that you're cheerleading a corporate surveillance state so powerful that it can blackmail and extort politicians. And then your sig complains about a government surveillance state. At least with a government surveillance state people can vote for change (personally, I believe that the Dems lost a lot of support because Obama continued to expand the surveillance state apparatuses that W. had set up). Here's your new sig: "Libertarianism (aka US 'Conservatism'): Ideas so good they need a co

  • Not suprising. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by jellomizer ( 103300 )

    The Trumps approach to trade has weaken our overall effectiveness, and will have long term repercussions that will take generations to repair.
    I expect more EU members finding ways to further separate themselves from the American Economy, because it has become more chaotic it now a less of reliable business partner. I can see more taxes and rules that can cause more of a separation from the US, and more internal EU trade, or trade with other nations.

  • Title is clickbait (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 11, 2019 @12:38PM (#58908560)

    In the summary it clearly states that this isn't particular to US companies only. It says "The 3% tax would apply to the French revenues of roughly 30 major companies, mostly from the U.S".

  • by That YouTube Guy ( 5905468 ) on Thursday July 11, 2019 @12:46PM (#58908638)
    The French were so nice [pastemagazine.com] during the World Cup.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 11, 2019 @12:53PM (#58908672)

    A top line revenue tax on companies in France is a good thing. It prevents companies from jurisdiction shopping just to avoid taxes. It also avoids the paper shuffling gimmicks companies use to avoid paying taxes.
    Main point is that it is transparent as to how much revenues are made in France and how much tax is paid.
    Makes businesses stop thinking about how to shave taxes by accounting tricks and think of how to increase revenue.

    Companies make many life changing decisions via HR actions just on the basis of tax implications or regulatory impact - witness highly compensated and its ceiling on wages for most technology workers.

    • When the legislation was crafted specifically to penalize US companies and (with one exception) to exclude any French companies, no it's not a good move, it's a move that no US president can allow unanswered and there will soon be WTO sanctioned reprisals.

      There is a reason why this legislation was refused by the EEC when it was proposed: WTO rules forbid attempting to bias competition by taxing foreign companies and giving local ones free passes. The legislation was narrowly crafted to only impact GAFA

      • and (with one exception) to exclude any French companies,
        French companies are not excluded, neither are other EU companies.

        That would be against the constitution ...

        get French wines hit with WTO sanctioned tariffs
        The WTO does not take tariffs ...

  • by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Thursday July 11, 2019 @12:59PM (#58908730) Homepage Journal

    Look, tariff wars never work, mostly because it's a tax on US consumers. France basically will just think we're crazy, and have no understanding of economics, and they'll be right.

    A genius found in a stable would know that.

    • by Cederic ( 9623 )

      How the fuck is this a tax on US consumers? This tax is on operations within France, so it impacts French people not US consumers.

      It may impact American companies but it only affects their French revenues, so still fuck all impact on US consumers.

  • Bullshit ... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 11, 2019 @01:02PM (#58908752)

    defying a warning from the President Donald Trump administration that it "unfairly targets American companies".

    Sorry, but why do Americans believe American Corporations should be able to operate in a country and not pay taxes in that country?

    No, you don't get to claim you made no revenue because you shuffled it around through other corporations.

    America needs to understand that the rest of the world doesn't think you or your corporations are special and deserve to be allowed to do as you please.

    US trade policy under Trump is a joke, but it lays bare the bullshit we've all known for years ... Americans and American Corporations want to do business in other places, but don't wish to play by their rules.

    Don't like it, fuck off and go away.

    France is right, they have the sovereign right to tax revenues made in their country.

    • Re:Bullshit ... (Score:5, Informative)

      by dcooper_db9 ( 1044858 ) on Thursday July 11, 2019 @02:27PM (#58909360)
      Count me among the millions of Americans who agree with you. These corporations aren't just dodging taxes in France, they're dodging taxes here. I'm tired of paying 39 percent while the multinationals pay nothing.
      • All the while insisting they actually do pay shitloads of taxes, but never get credit for it. Boo hoo.

        I'm just waiting for people to show up in this thread crooning that things would be better if we abolish all corporate taxes.

    • Sorry, but why do Americans believe American Corporations should be able to operate in a country and not pay taxes in that country?

      But...but that's what they do in the US.

    • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

      Sorry, but why do Americans believe American Corporations should be able to operate in a country and not pay taxes in that country?

      Nice strawman. No one is saying that.

      The concern is that the law, as written, disproportionately affects American companies. It says something like "companies with revenue greater than X" pay this extra tax. But... how was X determined? It might be that lawmakers solved for X such that it maximized the number of foreign companies it targeted and minimized the number of domestic companies. I don't know, but THAT is the issue, not that we believe these companies should not pay appropriate foreign taxes.

      • It says something like "companies with revenue greater than X" pay this extra tax.
        The revenue, you know, is in the low 2 digits million range.
        It basically hits every European company, too.

    • I just learned that France will be enacting this tax even on companies that do not have a physical presence in France. Isn't it unusual to try and tax a company that does not operate in your jurisdiction?
      What would they do if Google refused to pay the tax?

  • Problem solved in 1, 2, 3...

    • by Cederic ( 9623 )

      No. The equivalent would be a tax on all wine - France isn't taxing by nationality.

      Is this really so fucking hard to grasp? I guess so, the number of clowns posting about fucking wine.

  • Again, this is a new industry with new revenue, and as such is not about "paying your fair share" but rather how much voracious government can take in from new streams that didn't exist before (and, btw, which they hampered domestically by allowing lawsuits of hosts where guests post copyrighted material, which the US gave safe harbor to if they removed it promptly, allowing the US companies uniquely to become gigantic).

    I'm ready for my downmod, Mr. DeMille.

  • by dbu ( 256902 ) on Thursday July 11, 2019 @01:22PM (#58908880)

    The European Commission has estimated that traditional companies typically pay around 23 percent tax on profits, compared to between 8 and 9 percent for internet firms, some of which pay little or no tax at all.

  • by i-neo ( 176120 ) on Thursday July 11, 2019 @01:39PM (#58908992)

    The new tax is not targeting specifically America, it target all the Tech industry, which is dominated by American companies.

    It similarly applies to French and European companies as highlighted in a first (non-comprehensive) list shared in the scope of the review of the law: Airbnb, Alibaba, Amadeus, Amazon, Apple, Axel Springer, Booking, Criteo, Ebay, Expedia, Facebook, Google, Groupon, Match.com, Microsoft, Rakuten, Randstad, Recruit, Sabre, Schibsted, Travelport Worldwide, Tripadvisor, Twitter, Uber, Verizon, Wish et Zalando. source in french: https://www.rudebaguette.com/2... [rudebaguette.com]

    I'm amazed all the news is focused on "GAFA".

    • It similarly applies to French and European companies as highlighted in a first (non-comprehensive) list shared in the scope of the review of the law: ...Match.com...

      The fucking fuck? How does match.com have global revenues of 750 million euros and revenues exceeding 25 million euros in France?

  • by dbu ( 256902 ) on Thursday July 11, 2019 @01:49PM (#58909072)

    The U.K. is pushing ahead with its plan for a 2% Digital Service Tax [bloombergtax.com] on the digital revenue of tech giants like Apple Inc. and Facebook Inc. in its draft finance bill for 2019-20.

  • Article and summary mention that Trump warned the French. The French Minister apparently states that there was some threat, also. Where? Here is the statement that is linked in the article:

    “The United States is very concerned that the digital services tax which is expected to pass the French Senate tomorrow unfairly targets American companies,” said U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer. “The President has directed that we investigate the effects of this legislation and determine whether it is discriminatory or unreasonable and burdens or restricts United States commerce.”

    Seems quite reasonable to me.

    • If it is reasonable, how are we to become righteously indignant over it? Come on, consider your audience...

    • no, not reasonable at all since the law does NOT target U.S. companies but applies to UK, China, Germany and Spain.

      The law specifically taxes "companies using consumer data to sell online advertising, have annual global sales of over 750 million euros, and revenue exceeding 25 million euros in France."

      No mention of USA in there at all

    • by geekoid ( 135745 )

      Ii implies the US will take action against the country. That's LITERALLY the only reason to investigate another country tax decisions.

      Grow up.

      • Wrong. The US might look at France's decision and decide to implement the same sort of policy. If France is not "taking action" against the US, then the US wouldn't be "taking action" against France.
    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      For decades the French people enjoyed US desktop computers and later US internet services.
      What was the origin of desktop French computing? Getting sold into gov education by the gov.
      Consumers given the freedom to shop around quickly moved to the quality and innovation of advanced US designed computer products/services.

      Let users all over France enjoy great US computing products without a huge new gov tax.
  • by ikhider ( 2837593 ) on Thursday July 11, 2019 @02:35PM (#58909432)
    Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google (FANG) et al re making titanic profits and have eviscerated domestic media outlets, who do pay taxes, in the process. It is only fair that these juggernauts pay tax, particularly if they make their money off the populations that gave them the billions of dollars valuations in the first place. They do not deserve a tax-free ride. They have offshored profits to no one's benefits but their own. These companies must pay taxes anywhere they operate and reap megaprofits from.
  • This tax is just on what the companies earn in France. I see no issue with it.
    However, I still think that France (and all nations) need to collect a sales/vat tax on all goods that go over the borders and it needs to be collected by the delivery service. Right now, few collect and none are by delivery services.
  • by NewtonsLaw ( 409638 ) on Thursday July 11, 2019 @04:11PM (#58910124)

    How the Internet created a global trade war [aardvark.co.nz]

    From a New Zealand perspective.

  • France adds another decade of tax.

    The French consumer voted on the online US designed products and services they like.
    Generations went with fun/innovative Apple and MS over educational Groupe Bull, Thomson.
    "Computers for All" quickly became new US computers for everyone.
    Later people all over France enjoyed US web-based services.
    The French gov responded with more and more tax.

    France had its chance to do computing in past decades.
    France did not win over users and the users selected advanced US desk

Truly simple systems... require infinite testing. -- Norman Augustine

Working...