A Face-Scanning Algorithm Increasingly Decides Whether You Deserve the Job (washingtonpost.com) 128
Shmoodling shares a report from The Washington Post: Designed by the recruiting-technology firm HireVue, the system uses candidates' computer or cellphone cameras to analyze their facial movements, word choice and speaking voice before ranking them against other applicants based on an automatically generated "employability" score. HireVue's "AI-driven assessments" have become so pervasive in some industries, including hospitality and finance, that universities make special efforts to train students on how to look and speak for best results. More than 100 employers now use the system, including Hilton, Unilever and Goldman Sachs, and more than a million job seekers have been analyzed.
But some AI researchers argue the system is digital snake oil -- an unfounded blend of superficial measurements and arbitrary number-crunching, unrooted in scientific fact. Analyzing a human being like this, they argue, could end up penalizing nonnative speakers, visibly nervous interviewees or anyone else who doesn't fit the model for look and speech. The system, they argue, will assume a critical role in helping decide a person's career. But they doubt it even knows what it's looking for: Just what does the perfect employee look and sound like, anyway? "It's a profoundly disturbing development that we have proprietary technology that claims to differentiate between a productive worker and a worker who isn't fit, based on their facial movements, their tone of voice, their mannerisms," said Meredith Whittaker, a co-founder of the AI Now Institute, a research center in New York. "It's pseudoscience. It's a license to discriminate," she added. "And the people whose lives and opportunities are literally being shaped by these systems don't have any chance to weigh in."
But some AI researchers argue the system is digital snake oil -- an unfounded blend of superficial measurements and arbitrary number-crunching, unrooted in scientific fact. Analyzing a human being like this, they argue, could end up penalizing nonnative speakers, visibly nervous interviewees or anyone else who doesn't fit the model for look and speech. The system, they argue, will assume a critical role in helping decide a person's career. But they doubt it even knows what it's looking for: Just what does the perfect employee look and sound like, anyway? "It's a profoundly disturbing development that we have proprietary technology that claims to differentiate between a productive worker and a worker who isn't fit, based on their facial movements, their tone of voice, their mannerisms," said Meredith Whittaker, a co-founder of the AI Now Institute, a research center in New York. "It's pseudoscience. It's a license to discriminate," she added. "And the people whose lives and opportunities are literally being shaped by these systems don't have any chance to weigh in."
Rewarding sociopaths (Score:1)
Same idea as the polygraph, reward sociopaths and punish anyone who shows emotion.
Great!
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Well, it will probably reward the job to whoever looks most confident. So you're mostly right, though it probably won't be the emotionless ones that will be punished most, it will be the ones that shown any sign of integrity or capacity for self-reflection.
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That is because companies want to hire people who will go down the wrong path and never change direction.
Sure they may bring the company to its knees, or end up in jail. But they seemed so confident about it. Vs that other guy with measurable results who is willing to change their mind mid process when they realize his initial plan will not work out, but when asked a tough question his eyes wondered and took a few more seconds to come with an answer.
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Well, it will probably reward the job to whoever looks most confident. So you're mostly right, though it probably won't be the emotionless ones that will be punished most, it will be the ones that shown any sign of integrity or capacity for self-reflection.
How is a facial polygraph supposed to determine any of that?
charismatic psychopaths (Score:5, Insightful)
"Only charismatic psychopaths need apply"
Re:Rewarding sociopaths (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, this is the American way, the efficient Brave New World. Who wants that old 1984 with its pervasive telescreens anyway? Next up: Gattaca.
Re:Rewarding sociopaths (Score:5, Funny)
Sociopaths need jobs too. They are the last people you want to leave idle and unemployed.
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I've been saying for years, higher politicians may chew their lip and say they feel your pain, but in fact they really don't care what you think about them, which is why they can lie convincingly.
It's the shy people who are way over-concerned with what others think. Outgoing people don't.
Those at the top are literally low-end psychopaths.
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Especially Twitter. [twitter.com]
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Well, considering how senior management gets to their positions; they must think this technology is amazing.
and end user Company will get sued for discriminat (Score:4, Interesting)
and end user Company will get sued for discriminating.
What happens when an blind person needs to use this? Some one in an wheelchair?
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If they can look and speak well enough to fool the system, than for many jobs it proves they can do the job.
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Exactly. If you want to work the reception desk you can't look like Quasimodo.
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It's almost Halloween. It might actually help at a hunted house right now.
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Your comment is worthless without a picture, Mr. Has to be in the gym in 26 minutes.
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So frowny bitch face makes for bad salespeople and generally well, statistically more difficult to deal with employees. If they were smart they would simply conduct proper psychological assessment of the final employee to test for psychopathy and narcissism, both very damaging normie to staff moral. Not question and answers, but images and brain emotional reactions, activity and controls, psychopaths and narcissist absolutely can not cheat those tests, it is by the own genetic nature impossible to cheat.
Bi
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> If they were smart they would simply conduct proper psychological assessment of the final employee to test for psychopathy
Except that psychopathy is helpful for some careers, listed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] . Jobs with the highest percentages of psychopaths include clergy, CEO, surgeon, and chef.
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The Wikipedia article you linked doesn't make the claim that psychopathy is helpful for the careers it lists, it only points out that those careers show an over-representation of people with psychopathic tendencies.
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So how exactly do you teach the black guy to look white?
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Re: and end user Company will get sued for discrim (Score:2)
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Or, more often, the smart guy looking stupid enough...
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And multiple disabilities like me. :(
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Phrenology is a type of snake oil.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Stop the presses! (Score:4, Insightful)
My thought as well, although they seem to have combined that fraud with Meyers-Briggs, MMPI, and other pseudo-scientific jargon. A lose-lose mixture of self-referential theories.
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Don't worry, they'll give it a cutesy name like iPhren (or, better yet, iPhrend) and everyone will love it.
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Ane have those bumps on the skull been mapped to actual results?
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INTPs can appear to be EXTREMELY outgoing when they suddenly find themselves in the company of someone who's interesting, the same way ENTPs tend to be extremely social when they're in the company of someone who might be USEFUL
Do you have more details on this. I seem to fit all the ENTP stereotypes, but don't recognize myself on this INTERSTING people - USEFUL people you propose.
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Oh really?
Is this [pinimg.com] what you want the customer to see sitting at the front desk?
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Ah, so you posted your picture after all.
What I want from the person on the front desk isn't good looks, buddy, it is competence. I've had virtually all pretty people whom I've been served by at a front desk fuck up simple things like calling a cab or scheduling a reception room in the "business centre". I avoid these types like the plague now, rarely have trouble.
Looks don't mean shit when it comes to competence or ability. Let me try to come up with examples good even for the zoomers here... See, looks do
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porn performance
porn performers, dear Autocorrect, porn performers.
Re: Stop the presses! (Score:2)
Lawsuit waiting to happen (Score:5, Insightful)
This is going to make some lawyers rich when they demonstrate that it's biased for or against certain races or genders.
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plus the EEOC lawsuits.
Party City make an $155,000 payout for a retrain level job
https://www1.eeoc.gov/eeoc/new... [eeoc.gov]
Bradley Universit tryed to post an job saying must be able to work in a non-ADA compliant building
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They've had many instances of AI sussing out valid statistics that turn out to be racism and so should not be applied. I can't imagine "computer says we shouldn't hire you because you're African American and white people are slightly disinclined to buy from you" will fare much better in a lawsuit.
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I doubt anyone would admit that "the computer said we shouldn't hire you" for any reason. In fact when does a company every tell a candidate why they did not hire them.
Which is exactly how this software, or bigoted hiring policies, can exist. It is hard to prove. And most people declined either decide "I didn't want to work for those assholes anyhow" or are concerned about repercussions on their career. Blacklists might be illegal, but managers of various companies do talk to each other, depending on the in
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Sensible companies never tell candidates why they were not hired. It brings no benefit to the company, and may later be used against them in court.
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and when some with an disability requests an interview help with this and the get told NO GOOD BY?
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I think the whole point of using systems like this is to defend against the inevitable lawsuits while still getting the results you wanted. Your Honor, how can it be racist or sexist when the decision is made by an algorithm that does not take gender or race into consideration?
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Rip: Tay [wikipedia.org]
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Also against people with disabilities.
In the US a cheaper system exists (Score:1)
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In my industry people with light coloured skin are very much under represented if you compare to society demographics.
Similarly, entering 'female' on the application form boosts your chances of interview, and success at interview.
But you may not live in the UK or work in an IT field.
More ways to avoid having to face actual people (Score:2)
That or have a clue about people To actually do the HR thing, not pass all responsibility onto automatons.
Welcome to the new phrenology (Score:5, Insightful)
I would choose homelessness (Score:2)
before I'd submit to this.
Does it actually work? (Score:2)
Sure sounds like snake oil, but it'd be nice to know. Not that the system should be used even if it had a very accuracy.
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How could it not work? Simply by evaluating age and gender, it can select against older employees most likely to become ill or select against women young enough to become pregnant. I'm old enough that if my training and expertise were not overwhelming, I would be unemployable.
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I'm old enough that if my training and expertise were not overwhelming, I would be unemployable.
Same here.
We have what they need though, so they swallow hard and overlook the unspoken "age disqualifier" factor.
Gee there sure are a lot of us. 3 competing offers (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm over 40 and the last time I was on the job market I had three job offers to choose from. Hmm, we're starting to get a collection of older people who have no problem getting hired here.
Actually a few years ago I was thinking about dying my hair. Looking older could be bad for my career, I'd heard on a particular web forum. At an "all hands" meeting at work I looked around and noticed something interesting. Everyone in the organization who made more money than me had gray hair. Every single one. I decided not to dye my hair.
Re:Gee there sure are a lot of us. 3 competing off (Score:5, Interesting)
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Over 40? At 50 I had job offers out the wazoo. Try a job interview at 60 or better yet 70.
I'm 60-ish and I have no problem getting offers and interviews. It's my decades of experience that outweigh but-he's-so-old age factor.
I've told interviewers who pissed me off that "I have t-shirts older than you" and that I didn't see how they could be expected to evaluate my skills without some experience of their own. I mean, I had a decade of work under my belt before their parents had gotten to 2nd base.
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Mentor / teacher / guide if you don't manage (Score:2)
Here is the story I told hiring managers:
--
At my last long-term role it was structured in a way that saved my employer a money on developer payroll, while getting high-quality code produced. We had several programmers with less experience. More junior programmers would touch base with me when they weren't sure how to proceed with a project, or I would touch base wirh them if I saw a likely trap ahead for them. I would spend a few minutes giving them a suggested path to develop the thing they were going to
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"We think it will turn silver." [dilbert.com]
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In my mid 30s I grew a beard so that I'd look older, as I was younger than almost everybody else in the role I was trying to get.
It worked too.
Now I may need to shave instead ;)
Re: Does it actually work? (Score:2)
Don't know about this one. However, someone gifted me a book about hiring at Google with their tricky questions and all.
In the preface of the book the author stated that over the years HR has suffered plenty of fads regarding hiring techniques. And not a single one has stood up to scrutiny years later when you can evaluate the performance. Including Google's strategy outlined in the book.
But there's always a new fad.
Would have been hilarious if actual people's fates weren't at stake....
Just great (Score:4, Funny)
A Face-Scanning Algorithm Increasingly Decides Whether You Deserve the Job
Now only people with faces will get jobs - geesh.
"Worker who isn't fit" (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, dear. What an obvious opportunity to conceal what are _illegal_ biases involving gender, disabilities, age, race, or race. All of these traits do correlate with "fitness", since workers with the right features are likely to be able to work longer hours, take less sick time, especially take less parental leave, and are less likely to retire. All of them are reasons for businesses of all sizes to avoid the legislation that compels them to ignore these physical factors of for new employees..
This should be outlawed (Score:5, Interesting)
If technology like this becomes widespread, it will effectively create a caste system in America. Guaranteed they are simply classifying people by socioeconomic class with a few biasing factors to make it appear impartial to race.
Having recently gone through a job search, I found arrogant managers at second tier companies almost reveling in the power they have to reject applicants for trivial reasons. One had me take over an hour of tests that seemed like big 5, plus a test that had me rank three jobs, two of which would be boring manual labor involving alphabetizing records, one would be a fun creative/social job. They came back and said I didn't understand software development without ever asking me a question about software development.
https://m.phys.org/news/2019-10-class-bias-hiring-based-seconds.html
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Somewhere right now Charlie Brooker is feverishly writing a new Black Mirror script
Re: This should be outlawed (Score:2)
European here. NL.
Job search early 2018. Every single solicitation process involved IQ and big 5. Except one company. I work for them now...
Grow a pair (Score:2)
Grow a pair and refuse to have anything to do with companies that do this, and let them know WHY that is the case. Easy Peasy Simple Wimple. In short order they will stop what they are doing or face bankruptcy.
Oh lovely (Score:5, Interesting)
This sounds like a splendid addition to the world if you're looking to create a dystopian society.
With these kinds of weirdly invasive job 'evaluation' hurdles increasingly becoming the norm, I'm glad I'm near the end of my career rather than at the beginning. I'd hate to go through machine evaluations and possibly 'fail' because of the way my lip twitched.
And speaking of dystopian, heavily-monitored societies, China is pretty much already there in many ways. The thing a lot of people don't realize is that we're not far behind them. The capability to do that kind of surveillance and monitoring is already here, it's just that the tying-it-all-together part hasn't happened yet.
These people are Batty (Score:2)
But maybe they'll find the Roys they're looking for.
Glad I'm 5+ years from early retirement rather than interviewing for my first soul sucking job.
Gattaca? (Score:1)
*takes blood sample*
"Congratulations, you got the job!"
"What about the interview?"
"uhh...That was it"
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Check out Un-Natural Selection on Netflix.
Gattaga is right around the corner.
It's a bit sensationalist (at first), but that's fine with me. The ability to choose eye color and gender are sensational. But, the most incredible is the kid who gets vision that he never had.
Asking for a discrimination lawsuit (Score:2)
"AI driven" usually means machine learning. How can they be sure that an application that measure faces hasn't picked up gender, ethnicity, or age bias? There are minor regional language variations that may well be correlated with ethnicity, even though all are "correct" English. Shapes of faces and eyes of course vary a lot - so is a person looking "happy" "enthusiastic" or is the algorithm triggering on an ethnic feature.
Let's call it AR (Score:2, Funny)
for Automated Racism
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Not just race. Disability discrimination too for those with defects. :(
Pervasive? (Score:2)
100 employers doesn't seem all that pervasive to me.
And employers have used snake oil criteria to judge applicants since before the term "snake oil" was invented.
This is no stupider than using personality tests, or voice stress analysis, or any other flavor of snake oil.
Nothing to see here, move along.
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At one point, I worked for a very large insurance company, and they had a very, very narrow profile of what their ideal Life Insurance Salesperson should be like. Skin colour wasn't part of the profile, but the rest (IIRC) was male, 20-30, recently married. And pretty much the whole industry shared this same profile ... and, ho boy, did they have tons and tons of bogus and scientifically bovine excremental reasons for that profile. Good luck getting hired if you didn't fit the profile.
Here's the kicker:
Maybe not as stupid as human interviewers (Score:2)
Human interviewers are not particularly smart. They get an emotional feel for a person based on very superficial traits. Sure the program will be dumb. But maybe not dumber than human interviewers.
A related trend is having AI systems mark English assignments. They can be fooled into giving high scores to well crafted garbage based on vocabulary etc. But test show that their assessments are actually better than human markers. The underpaid human only looks at each essay for a few seconds, checks a bit
Next: realtime AI appearance fix-up for workers (Score:3)
The obvious next step is to deceive the AI by using the same technology as Deep Fake videos. Take the images of yourself and modify it in real-time to make yourself more normally attractive, your speech patterns smoother, and so on.
Want the job? You need to buy an appearance smoother to use on your phone before you go to the interview. Better appearance smoothers will be more expensive, of course. I hope your family has money or you can afford a loan shark, you'll need money to get the job. Of course you can't get a mainstream loan, since that will also judge you by your appearance.
Having to buy your way into a job is not new - traditionally it simply means bribing the officials or leaders assigning the jobs, but in future it will mean buying the technology to deceive the employer's technology.
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By jove, you sure look whiter in person Will Smith
A feature, not a bug (Score:2)
But some AI researchers argue the system is digital snake oil -- an unfounded blend of superficial measurements and arbitrary number-crunching, unrooted in scientific fact. Analyzing a human being like this, they argue, could end up penalizing nonnative speakers, visibly nervous interviewees or anyone else who doesn't fit the model for look and speech.
So HR departments will snap this up.
The only measurement is Compliance (Score:2)
The real measure in these cases is a Pass/Fail checkbox that tells a prospective employer that the candidate is willing to comply with dehumanizing procedures in order to get a job.
Companies don't want candidates who have the kind of confidence and sense of self-worth that makes them able to refuse these types of hiring techniques. They want someone who will do what they're told, when they're told to do it, no matter how demeaning or unreasonable it is. The kind of person who refuses this test is much mor
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Companies don't want candidates who have the kind of confidence and sense of self-worth that makes them able to refuse these types of hiring techniques
Pretty much every senior manager I've worked with greatly values those traits.
Of course, confidence needs to be backed up by substance; simple arrogance is undesirable.
The important piece of information gleaned is "did the candidate take the test/sit for the interview/etc.?" If yes, you know that they'll accept that salary freeze or work three extra hours after clocking out or tear their back to shreds making that manufacturing quota.
Nonsense. People accept all manner of bollocks at interview, but that doesn't change their expectations in how they'll be treated, doesn't impact whether they'll be loyal to the company, doesn't demonstrate their work ethic, doesn't even hint towards how much they value their home life.
Asking for an AI video interview, making you take a "personality assessment test," drug tests, and things like that are basically enormous red flags telling you to stay away from that company.
Ok, I agree with you on this. I'd suggest 'proceed with c
How was the AI trained? (Score:3)
"Digital snake oil" indeed. (Score:2)
Recognition is growing that job interviews are pretty much useless when it comes to predicting candidate performance and suitability. Even Forbes is on that bandwagon [forbes.com]. What makes HireVue think they have an algorithm that can judge 'employability' better than an experienced and insightful human being? How was their "AI" trained? How were the algorithms developed? How was their product tested for effectiveness? Was it tested at all? HireVue's website is long on motherhood-and-apple-pie promotional bullshit, b
Quis custodiet ipsos custodet (Score:2)
Big mistake (Score:3)
Phrenology (Score:2)
I hear that measuring & mapping the size & shape of bumps on candidates' skulls is more accurate & reliable.
You have to be 100% perfect- (Score:2)
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Compulsively uses a carriage return to turn every sentence ever posted into an individual paragraph?
What company would hire someone who won't apply the most fundamental basics of language style?
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In the workers they need and can test for...
Their job to offer, their skilled staff they need.
Should a company hire people with no skills and then what?
Take a year to try and educate them? A few more years? Still no improvement? Keep on paying a full wage?
The US mil tried that with Project 100,000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Hire a person who can do the work expected?
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There are many speech patterns that are easily understandable and will leave a good impression of the speaker. Apparently this device only "likes" some of them. It is very likely as deeply insightful as the cheesy "what your choice of socks says about you" articles in tabloids.
Be careful, some cool aid can be very bad for your health.
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Thats kind of what any company would want.
A person who can speak with most of the US population about a product service.
Who can greet people and provide useful information.
Should any company accept a person lacking the needed skills?
Then what? Get paid for hours and not help anyone?
A weeks pays later and no work done?
A year later and still no ability to do the "talking" related work expected?
How about the few that have the skills needed and then with fu
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Please take the enter key off of your keyboard and throw it away.
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For the ability to talk to a few people about the "work"?
Then find the best people for the job? Hire that person who can talk and is not visibly nervous?
Out of all the less skilled people who attempted to get the job?