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Transportation AI Technology

Tesla Owners Say Autopilot Makes Them Feel Safer (bloomberg.com) 135

"Bloomberg has conducted a survey of Tesla Model 3 owners," writes Slashdot reader Thelasko. "Some of the most interesting data are responses to questions about Autopilot." Here's an excerpt from the report: We asked 5,000 Model 3 owners about their experience with the electric sedan that Tesla Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk says will lead the world into a new era of driverless transportation. [...] Six drivers claimed that Autopilot actually contributed to a collision, while nine people in the Bloomberg survey went so far as to credit the system with saving their lives. Hundreds of owners recalled dangerous behaviors, such as phantom braking, veering or failing to stop for a road hazard. But even those who reported shortcomings gave Autopilot high overall ratings. More than 90% of owners said driving with Autopilot makes them safer -- including most of the respondents who simultaneously faulted the software for creating dangerous situations. Bloomberg also asked Model 3 owners about the quality and reliability of their vehicles, as well as the service and charging.
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Tesla Owners Say Autopilot Makes Them Feel Safer

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  • While it's nice to feel safe, what really matters is the hard data. Since this article does nothing to even analyze real data, this story is a pointless.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @05:23AM (#59386178) Homepage Journal

      Feelings do matter in this case. If they feel safe they may be paying less attention and trusting the system too much, which increases the chances of an accident.

      • ...or using it in driving conditions where it really isn't appropriate.

        Still, it you've got a bunch of screaming kids in the back it allows you to take your eyes off the road while you scream back at them. That has to count for something I guess.

        • My mom solved that issue 43 years ago. Pull the car over to the side of the road, get out, and whack the kids in the head. Worked really well to settle them down for the rest of the trip...
          • ah, you had it easy. For the few road trips we took, if we acted up, he pulled over and we each got 10 lickings each with a very stiff/wide leather belt. As you said, issue solved.
        • ...or using it in driving conditions where it really isn't appropriate.

          Still, it you've got a bunch of screaming kids in the back it allows you to take your eyes off the road while you scream back at them. That has to count for something I guess.

          The only car accident my mom ever got into was when her car was at a stop light and got rear-ended. The other person was a mom who was yelling at her kids because they 'started throwing their fresh pizza around inside the car.' We could still hear them yelling and arguing inside of the car, and I was glad that wasn't my life.

        • It gets better than that. Basically, I have friends with new version of Tesla (we have a 2013, so no AP, except when we have a loaner), and they tell me that one of the BEST times for it, is in stop/go traffic. Apparently, it has smoother braking, and does a much better job paying attention. Likewise, when doing long trips, they are nowhere near as tired.

          But, they all point out that the low accident counts are impressive to them.

          BTW, on a side, the one interesting issue about Tesla drivers, is that wh
      • Feelings do matter in this case. If they feel safe they may be paying less attention and trusting the system too much, which increases the chances of an accident.

        The first flaw in your argument is the assumption that 'theoretical', 'documentable' facts like yours matter anymore. We are now living in the era of emotionally generated facts. Secondly emotionally generated facts like 'I feel safer therefore I am safer' sell more cars, nothing else matters.

      • Conversely If they feel less safe, they may be more stressed while driving, and distracted from their fear, causing them to miss important safety details.

        When I am lost or feeling stressed driving, I turn off my car radio. Not that the radio is making me see less or is the cause of the stress, but because I need more focus during that time, because every extra distraction creates more of a tunnel vision. Looking for the street sign not the pedestrians, Eyes checking in the distance for an intersection not
        • Conversely If they feel less safe, they may be more stressed while driving, and distracted from their fear, causing them to miss important safety details.

          Is that what you do when you feel less safe??

      • Feelings work both ways. Such as those feelings from people that ABS doesn't work, and they are better who then attempt to do maneuvers which ultimately result in worse results for avoiding an accident.

        Trust the computer, it will only get better. You as a human on the other hand will only get worse.

      • Lol, rants about feelings.. makes comment regarding own feelings. What you say isn't backed up by data, andautopilot is safer than human drivers per mile. You can easily go google this.
        • by HiThere ( 15173 )

          And the problem, of course, is "can you trust the data you goggled for on the web". I might be corporate propaganda.

          Unfortunately, there's a lot of untrustworthy "reports of fact" out there. This is one of the reasons conspiracy theories are so popular (and it results in more productions of untrustworthy reports). When a report in to the benefit of a financial sponsor of the report one needs to be dubious, especially is they aren't legally liable in case of active fraud.

          OTOH, I expect that any reports ou

      • and yet, if that was the case combined with the system being bad, then we should see an INCREASE in major accidents and instead, see fewer accidents.
    • While it's nice to feel safe, what really matters is the hard data. Since this article does nothing to even analyze real data, this story is a pointless.

      Security theatre at airports makes people feel safer, doesn't mean it is safer.

    • They should have also asked non-Tesla owners if Tesla autopilot makes them feel safer.
    • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @08:57AM (#59386614)
      I work with data all the time. No one cares about the data unless it is compressed to a single number. With the suggestion to do or not do something. In which the data is so simplified that people will take it as the opinion of that random guy in the Analytics team.

      What is worse is when the data shows something counter intuitive is in play. So the person/group that made the initial intuitive decision feels likes they are on the spot for making a bad decision.
      The data doesn't make such value calls, it is just pointing out the trend and effect.
      The groups who really understand data, are often unhappy with the simple answer and ask for more numbers to explain it. And when a something counter intuitive is found, the group who gets data is actually excited to see data showing something beyond what they emotionally thought.

      If people don't do anything with hard data, you can probably get better results knowing how people feel.

      Back during the 1970's with the Gas Crunch people got small cars. They felt unsafe in them, even though they had technology such as crumple zones and better safety belts that actually made the cars safer than their larger counterparts where if there was an accident the car frame would be fine, but you would be head first in the solid oak dashboard or the windshield.

      This feeling of being unsafe is the reason why still today. Soccer Moms buy large Minivans then SUVs not because they are better for the family, but because they feel safer driving them.

      Feelings change peoples minds, data doesn't

       
      • Back during the 1970's with the Gas Crunch people got small cars. They felt unsafe in them, even though they had technology such as crumple zones and better safety belts that actually made the cars safer than their larger counterparts

        But a large car with those features is safer still. Modern large cars, like all cars, do have those features.

    • Lol, yes customer satisfaction is irrelevant. But anyway, let me google that for you. [venturebeat.com]
  • by h33t l4x0r ( 4107715 ) on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @05:17AM (#59386170)
    (targeted to TSLA owning democrats in swing states) Feel free to take a nap on your morning commute. Let TSLA autopilot get you to work on time. (Sponsored by Cambridge Analytica)
    • Exactly. Regardless of what the data says (and it may be that autopilot is safer), this isn't about "feeling safer while you drive." This is about, "feeling safe enough to f**k around while you drive." More succinctly, it's about not having to drive at all.

  • safety data (Score:5, Informative)

    by dehachel12 ( 4766411 ) on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @05:18AM (#59386172)
    from: https://www.tesla.com/VehicleS... [tesla.com] "In the 3rd quarter, we registered one accident for every 4.34 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilot engaged. For those driving without Autopilot but with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.70 million miles driven. For those driving without Autopilot and without our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 1.82 million miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States there is an automobile crash every 498,000 miles. "
    • by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

      Thank you, assuming the data is correct, that's valuable information.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ZeroTheKid ( 6364030 )
      This data is nearly USELESS. it does nothing to take into account demographics of the average driver vs the average Tesla owner. I had 3 crashes all in my first 5 years of driving. In 26 years of drive those are my only 3 crashes. (One was major and the others were lesser fender benders) First time drivers are probably the least likely to be drive a Tesla. (Those few rich kids are an exception not a rule) Young drivers are responsible for 12.8% of accidents. What about alcoholic drivers and the elderly? W
      • The biggest reason people drive while inebriated is not wanting to leave their car. Autonomous drivers, once perfected, will massively curb the accidents from alcohol. You might even see court mandated rulings to own one as a 1st offense consequence.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Yeah! Move those goalposts!

        Who cares about hard data that shows a decrease in accidents when we can find ways to nitpick at it, dismiss it and keep the current system that kills 37,000 injures 2.3 million per year just in the US.

        I especially like the way you end with randomly mentioning that you've "never seen someone make a study of what even what percentage of drivers are responsible for 50% of the accidents" because ... damn. Not only is it incoherent, it ignores the fac that insurance companies and th

      • Call it USELESS if you want, that's the only kind of you will ever get. There is not going to be a randomized controlled trial where people are randomly assigned to drive a Tesla and to use its features or not. We have to use statistical methods to make what we can of it.
    • Re:safety data (Score:4, Insightful)

      by msauve ( 701917 ) on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @07:18AM (#59386340)
      Misleading and worthless. It's not just how many miles, it's also _where_ those miles are driven. I'll submit that people are more likely to use autopilot on long freeway drives than in city traffic, where the accident rate would be expected to be lower anyway.
      • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        Misleading and worthless. It's not just how many miles, it's also _where_ those miles are driven. I'll submit that people are more likely to use autopilot on long freeway drives than in city traffic, where the accident rate would be expected to be lower anyway.

        Except that long freeway drives are also where you want to have Autopilot, because of the rather humdrum nature of the driving (constant speed, pretty straight roads, etc). Puts a lot of people to sleep so having Autopilot around could keep accidents

        • Misleading and worthless. It's not just how many miles, it's also _where_ those miles are driven. I'll submit that people are more likely to use autopilot on long freeway drives than in city traffic, where the accident rate would be expected to be lower anyway.

          Except that long freeway drives are also where you want to have Autopilot, because of the rather humdrum nature of the driving

          You sound confused. You start with the word "except" but are in fact agreeing with the OP, as I do. If I used Autopilot it would be on long tedious motorway/freeway stretches where the accident rate is low anyway. I'd be less inclined to use it on a short suburban hop where the accident rate is much higher. As for using it in traffic jams, you generally get minor shunts in those, not fatalities, as they happens at 20mph.

          Whatever : Tesla's statistics are useless without being related to the types of ro

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Misleading figures, because Autopilot is only supposed to be used on highways that are much safer per mile than other types of road anyway. Additionally since Teslas are quite expensive owners tend to come from higher socioeconomic classes who experience fewer accidents anyway.

      Tesla has been called out on this BS before but keep pushing it. Their drive attention detection system allows people to sleep at the wheel, but they don't release any data on how often that happens because they don't even know.

      • Re:safety data (Score:5, Informative)

        by Rei ( 128717 ) on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @08:13AM (#59386484) Homepage

        Misleading figures, because Autopilot is only supposed to be used on highways that are much safer per mile than other types of road anyway.

        The most popular place to use Autopilot is stop-and-go traffic. Accidents in stop-and-go traffic are very much commonplace.

        Additionally since Teslas are quite expensive

        3-year 12k mi $0-down lease rates (which take into account TCO) are only $126 more expensive for a Model 3 SR+ than a base Accord - a difference made up for a typical river by gas and maintenance savings alone. A longer-term perspective would favour the Tesla even more.

        owners tend to come from higher socioeconomic classes who experience fewer accidents anyway.

        Tesla's stats contain the difference between Teslas using and not using AP, so it's the same vehicle.

        Tesla has been called out on this BS before but keep pushing it.

        I don't know what you call "pushing" - I see no "pushing" from Tesla on the publications. They were asked during an earnings call to publish regular AP statistics, and thus, they do so.

        Their drive attention detection system allows people to sleep at the wheel,

        As a general rule, if you find someone literally asleep at the wheel, they've used a defeat device on their steering wheel. There's a number of different "guides" out there on how to make them, because humans suck. :P

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          The most popular place to use Autopilot is stop-and-go traffic. Accidents in stop-and-go traffic are very much commonplace.

          Do you have some data that shows that?

          As a general rule, if you find someone literally asleep at the wheel, they've used a defeat device on their steering wheel.

          In the many videos on YouTube it appears that most of them just rest one hand on the wheel while sleeping.

        • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

          As a general rule, if you find someone literally asleep at the wheel, they've used a defeat device on their steering wheel. There's a number of different "guides" out there on how to make them, because humans suck. :P

          People don’t suck. Using steering wheel torque as a measurement of attention sucks. It constantly nags you to keep your hands on the wheel if they are there, thus forcing you to either drive one-handed or use a defeat device to make the torque uneven.

    • I'm a little confused at how having safety features active (but autopilot off) increased the rate of accidents vs. autopilot engaged. Wouldn't autopilot use the EXACT same safety features to avoid accidents?

      For those driving without Autopilot and without our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 1.82 million miles driven. By comparison, NHTSA’s most recent data shows that in the United States there is an automobile crash every 498,000 miles. "

      This number also seems weird. A Tesla with NO safety features active is essentially any other car on the road. In fact, the Tesla should be WORSE than all other cars since there are many non-tesla cars on the road with safety features turned on. What causes the Tesla to have 1/3 the accidents?

      • What causes the Tesla to have 1/3 the accidents?

        Hazarding a guess, better acceleration, deceleration, better handling, better traction control and a very low center of gravity.

        In fact, the Tesla should be WORSE than all other cars since there are many non-tesla cars on the road with safety features turned on.

        And there are many non-Tesla cars on the road with effectively zero safety features.

        I've got a 2005 Toyota with no ABS, no traction control, no backup camera, no automated braking, FFS it doesn't even have tire pressure sensors. I see lots of older Jeeps and pickups around which I'm sure are in the same situation. Hell, I saw a Geo Tracker the other day flashing some sweet 1980s c

        • Hazarding a guess, better acceleration, deceleration, better handling, better traction control and a very low center of gravity.

          More likely, we are comparing all drivers (young inexperienced, old/shouldn't be driving) with middle aged Tesla owners.

          And there are many non-Tesla cars on the road with effectively zero safety features.

          But ALL of the Telsas in this data set (safety features off) have zero safety features.

        • What causes the Tesla to have 1/3 the accidents?

          Hazarding a guess, better acceleration, deceleration, better handling, better traction control and a very low center of gravity.

          Guess is wrong. It is rare for a modern saloon car to turn over, and all cars have good enough brakes that the only limiting factor is the tyres. Porsches have excellent handling and low CG but insurance companies don't note them as safer.

  • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @05:32AM (#59386186)
    ... many sleep like babies -- while driving.
    • by blindseer ( 891256 ) <blindseer@earthli[ ]net ['nk.' in gap]> on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @07:59AM (#59386426)

      ... many sleep like babies -- while driving.

      This reminds me of a joke I heard...

      I wish to someday die from old age peacefully as I sleep, like my grandpa did. Not crying and screaming like the people in the car with him.

      • by WallyL ( 4154209 )

        This reminds me of a joke I heard...

        I wish to someday die from old age peacefully as I sleep, like my grandpa did. Not crying and screaming like his passengers.

        FTFY

    • ... many sleep like babies -- while driving.

      A decision they actively made while they were awake to disable the safety system which prevents them doing just that. Not one person has accidentally fallen asleep while their Tesla kept driving.

      • by dgatwood ( 11270 )
        Or they drive with one hand hanging to keep it from nagging them, and their hand doesn’t drop when they fall asleep. That aspect of AP is fairly fundamentally defective by design. Only eye tracking can adequately prove attention.
    • As opposed to traditional cars, in which people never ever evuh fall asleep. Since everyone seems so 'data driven' I'll play too - do you have any data suggesting Tesla drivers fall asleep more often, or is that a...feeling?
  • I have a Subaru with EyeSight. While it's not "autopilot", IMHO, it does seem safer in some ways than just regular driving because you're less focused on maintaining a reasonable following distance. Let the car do that while you steer and pay attention to other driving details.

    • by Freischutz ( 4776131 ) on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @06:45AM (#59386268)

      I have a Subaru with EyeSight. While it's not "autopilot", IMHO, it does seem safer in some ways than just regular driving because you're less focused on maintaining a reasonable following distance. Let the car do that while you steer and pay attention to other driving details.

      The thing about reasonable following distance is that it's every bit as dangerous as tailgating. There is always some idiot who sees that gap between you and the car in front of you as an invitation to cram his own car in there without signalling or any other form of warning, sort of like a pig pushing aside and trampling down everything in its path as it rushes the feeding troth.

      • by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

        Still the automatic system would react quicker to that, making it safer yet again.

        • Automatic cruise does not do anything when a car squeezes in ahead of you dangerously. The reasoning is a brake check to open space will be a greater accident risk. So most systems just back off the accelerator and gradually open up distance while maintaining a longer time in danger than most drivers. Further the systems are quite dumb and will stop for cars exiting the freeway, despite being well off to the side, or in the process of turning with no oncoming traffic. There is no prediction of the futu
          • by OzPeter ( 195038 )

            Automatic cruise does not do anything when a car squeezes in ahead of you dangerously. The reasoning is a brake check to open space will be a greater accident risk. So most systems just back off the accelerator and gradually open up distance while maintaining a longer time in danger than most drivers.

            There are no absolutes in safety, only relative considerations. Maintaining a safe distance maximizes safety. And it's pure speculation on your part that the automatic systems respond slower than people. You are also ignoring that automatic systems perform the same action repeatably, while people only respond in correlation to how much attention they are paying to the surrounding traffic and/or how awake they are.

            Further the systems are quite dumb and will stop for cars exiting the freeway, despite being well off to the side, or in the process of turning with no oncoming traffic.

            Not an issue with my Subaru adaptive CC, I don't know whose system you are talking about. S

      • People do that even when there isn't enough space, so I don't really buy that argument.
        • People do that even when there isn't enough space, so I don't really buy that argument.

          If you don’t yield, hit the horn and there is insufficient space they are too cowardly to ram you.

      • by OzPeter ( 195038 )

        The thing about reasonable following distance is that it's every bit as dangerous as tailgating. There is always some idiot who sees that gap between you and the car in front of you as an invitation to cram his own car in there without signalling or any other form of warning

        Yeah .. and you just slow down and increase the gap between you and the new car ahead of you. Been doing that since before adaptive cruise control was a thing.

        Saying that safe distance driving is dangerous because people will fill the hole is stupid argument. Safe driving distance minimizes the possibility of you running into the car ahead and maximizes your overall safety.. But you can't stop other people doing stupid shit on the road. And extrapolating your answer you want to eliminate safe driving di

        • The thing about reasonable following distance is that it's every bit as dangerous as tailgating. There is always some idiot who sees that gap between you and the car in front of you as an invitation to cram his own car in there without signalling or any other form of warning

          Yeah .. and you just slow down and increase the gap between you and the new car ahead of you. Been doing that since before adaptive cruise control was a thing.

          Saying that safe distance driving is dangerous because people will fill the hole is stupid argument. Safe driving distance minimizes the possibility of you running into the car ahead and maximizes your overall safety.. But you can't stop other people doing stupid shit on the road. And extrapolating your answer you want to eliminate safe driving distance just to deny the random idiot the ability to cut in front of you. Which makes *you* the idiot and maximizes your chances of having a rear end collision and reduces your overall safety.

          So you read the words ‘no warning’ and ‘pig to the trough’ and interpreted that to mean ‘signalled in good time to give you plenty of time to react and then slowly and courteously changed lanes’ ??

      • The thing about reasonable following distance is that it's every bit as dangerous as tailgating. There is always some idiot who sees that gap between you and the car in front of you as an invitation to cram his own car in there without signalling or any other form of warning, sort of like a pig pushing aside and trampling down everything in its path as it rushes the feeding troth.

        What a strange comment. You just said that because someone left a safe following distance someone merged in (a very safe manoeuvre thanks to the large following distance).

        Arseholes are arseholes. The safe way to combat an arsehole is not to drive like one yourself, and giving them the space to wave their dick around is the single safest thing you can do on the road as the alternative is usually that you get cut off.

    • The Subaru EyeSight is outstanding. We have an Outback equipped with it and it is noticeably smoother than the smart cruise control on my newer Honda. It just seems to make much better predictions about the need to speed up or slow down in order to maintain the proper gap.
    • by OzPeter ( 195038 )

      I have a Subaru with EyeSight. While it's not "autopilot", IMHO, it does seem safer in some ways than just regular driving because you're less focused on maintaining a reasonable following distance. Let the car do that while you steer and pay attention to other driving details.

      I just bought a 2020 Forester. It's EyeSight has the adaptive cruise control but it also has active lane centering technology. I have tested this by driving down the freeway with my hands off the wheel while the car maintains a safe distance from the car ahead of me and keeps me safely centered in the lane. This may not be Tesla AP level of automation, but it does a pretty good impression of it. The car only beeps at me if it doesn't feel my hands on the wheel every 30 seconds or so.

      I have to admit that

      • I had a 201x Outback with one of the earlier eyesight implementations, ACC worked pretty well but no lane centering. My new Pacifica Hybrid has it but it's not really useful, it does a ping-pong thing, not really centering. A good implementation of this is probably the most useful piece of automatic driving we'll get for the next 10 years at least.
        • The ping-pong thing is "lane keeping assist" -- my 2019 Ascent only has that, which IMHO is not really that useful except on super long distance highway driving, and it takes some getting used to as you kind of fight it until you realize what its doing.

      • I *wish* my 2019 Ascent had lane centering, but it only has lane keep assist which is way less useful. It's prone to ping-ponging if you're too light on the steering, but if you're too heavy on the steering you feel like you're fighting the car a bit as it will subtly correct steering a bit too frequently.

        What I don't get is how a car can have lane keep assist but not lane centering. AFAICT, it's the same technology -- you have to be able to sense the lane markers and the car's position relative to the la

  • The recent update now show cones on the display. I find myself looking for cones on the road to see if the car identifies the cones on the display which it does do successfully. Autopilot should now be able to navigate contraflow roadworks without ploughing through the cones!

    Also, the update provided 1 pedal driving whereby fully releasing the accelerator pedal causes the car to slow down using regenerative braking and under 5mph'ish, fully stops by applying brakes and keeps the car in a "hold" (like "park"

  • It's Useful (Score:5, Informative)

    by Vandil X ( 636030 ) on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @07:53AM (#59386418)
    I own a Model 3 with Full Self Driving. While AP can generally be used anywhere, I exclusively on Interstate and state highways, or anywhere else where I might normally just use cruise control.

    To me, AP is the marriage of Adaptive cruise control (ACC) and Lane Assist (LA) allowing the car to keep itself centered in the lane. To keep it going, you either have to maintain some kind of tension on the wheel or be ready to add tension when prompted or press/roll one of the steering wheel buttons when prompted.

    AP just makes those long haul miles go by much easier than with old school cruise control or any combo of ACC and LA in modern ICE (internal combustion engine) cars.

    AP has its flaws though. On roads where the right lane has a traffic ramp merging onto it, if the solid painted right line disappears for the merge lane, AP suddenly doesn't see a right line to center with. At first it is fine, until it sees the right line of the merge lane slowly creep in from the side, then AP tries to center the car with that right line, making the car creep into the merge region, only to wiggle back to the standard lane as the merge lane ends. The car's movement probably looks like distracted driving to a motorist observing my car. If a merge lane has a dashed line present that still delineates the standard lane, AP works fine. You could just cruise in the left lane (or middle, where available) but many states have laws about using the left lane to cruise, versus a quick pass.

    AP is a useful tool, but it's not meant to replace a human being being actively present on the drive. It's definitely safer than old school cruise control, and a more enjoyable marriage of ACC and LA, but not a replacement for paying attention.
    • by Tugrik ( 158279 )

      This is playfully known as the 'Tesla Asshole Maneuver'. The "must stay in the center!" behavior when a right hand exit lane joins up makes it look like the driver is one of those people who dodge over right to protect their place in a zipper merge and is trying to keep on-ramp users from passing them on the right. When there's enough traffic this particular autopilot action is problematic and causes tension with other drivers, to the point I find myself manually holding straight (thus canceling the autopi

  • Yeah my car suddenly accelerates for no reason, and the steering wheel dosen't seem to work sometimes, and there is a funny burnt plastic smell that is very intermittent and I can't locate the source, but I feel totally safe in this car. And I swear to God, I'm not drinking my car manufactuer's Kool-Aid, I'm totally legit with my feelings. Totally.
  • by Darth Maul ( 19860 ) on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @08:49AM (#59386586)

    I drive a manual transmission car and I swear it makes me a safer driver, and I feel safer in my car. The reason being, I am forced to pay attention at all times. I cannot have anything in my hands, and I need to pay attention to traffic far ahead to anticipate clutch / shifter action to minimize wear and tear.

    All of these nanny controls just make drivers more willing to check the Facepage while driving.

    • If you can't drive a manual with stuff in your hands, then you must be a in the small group doing it properly. I've driven stick 30 years and have no problems holding junk and not paying attention. The best part about driving a manual today is valet services often don't have someone who even knows how to drive them and my car gets the primo spot right outside the fancy restaurant (last time they put it in neutral and pushed it Lmafo).
    • Agreed 100% (I am also a stick driver although it's becoming more difficult as manufacturers don't generally offer manual versions of their vehicles).

      Look, if we wanted to get serious about preventing traffic fatalities right now and not wait for some future AI assisted driver, we could do three things:

      - make it harder to get a license (it's a joke right now even with graduated licensing)
      - re-test at least every 5 years
      - increase the minimum driving age to at least 18

      This is all I think about when I read th

    • I look forward to a future where silly fallible humans are not in control of their cars. If what you were saying was true then accident rates would have increased over the years. I mean cars are safer than ever so humans should basically not pay attention at all anymore right?

      The reality is accident rates go down.

      Also what does your transmission have to do with anything? The last hired car I had also had a fully manual transmission. It worked quite well along with adaptive cruise control, lane keeping assis

      • The type of transmission for me personally correlates to being a more engaged driver - more in control and paying attention to the surrounding environment. That was my point. I am more engaged and driving gets 100% of my focus.

        • Doesn't matter. I was sitting at a left turn lane recently and some lady in front of me, 10 feet at least, put her car in reverse and just backed into me for literally no reason. Fortunately there was no damage but a slight dent on front bumper but she couldn't even explain why she did it, something about working a lot of hours (she didn't appear drunk).

          People are dumb. Another asshole rammed me from behind in a school parking lot, said "oh shit my girlfriend's going to kill me, I just totaled our other car

          • I expect the ladies' car was an automatic and not a manual stick shift. Automatic cars are more prone to being driven in the wrong direction at fast speed because of people using the accelerator pedal instead of the brake pedal. It is a case of 2 wrongs making it worse. What happens is that they first select the wrong gear D or R and press the accelerator pedal then realise their mistake and try to hit the brake pedal but hit the accelerator pedal by mistake so causing the vehicle to lurch off at high speed

  • by Stolpskott ( 2422670 ) on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @09:18AM (#59386694)

    An interesting potential takeaway from this line:
    "More than 90% of owners said driving with Autopilot makes them safer -- including most of the respondents who simultaneously faulted the software for creating dangerous situations."

    Drivers who faulted the autopilot software for creating dangerous situations simultaneously felt that the software kept them safer.
    If they were safer, that means that the autopilot either reduced the overall number of dangerous situations they got into or reduced the severity of the individual dangerous situations, compared to when they were driving themselves.
    In other words, users were saying "autopilot put me in x number of dangerous situations, but my own driving would have put me in dangerous situations more frequently, or situations that were more dangerous".

    Can I get real-time location data for those drivers, so that I can get a Tesla and program the autopilot to never get within 10 miles of them?

    • Can I get real-time location data for those drivers, so that I can get a Tesla and program the autopilot to never get within 10 miles of them?

      NO no, you're doing it wrong. THAT way you're always on the lookout for them. Bad move.

      Use that info and input it into a auto-targeting turret system mounted on your roof. Trunk holds an auto-loading ammo system, and you're set to go. THAT way THEY'RE always on the lookout for YOU, so you have less things to worry about.

      Remember, always push the work DOWN to exactly those people that deserve it.

  • What do Steve Jobs, Donald Trump, & Elon Musk all have in common? -- They don't care about the truth. They say whatever they can think of to get what they want regardless of whether there's any truth to it or not. This is the academic definition of bullshit (yes, it's actually a thing).

    What else do they have in common? -- Millions of Americans worship them. Unquestioningly.

    BTW, according to the OECD PISA survey results, Americans are the second biggest bullshitters in the world, just behind Canadians ht [wordpress.com]

  • of the vehicles I pass each morning as I ride through Mallibu (motorcycle, lane split), Tesla owners are always fidgeting with their phones or cars MUCH more than the average driver. They probably use "autopilot" a lot more to simply save their own inability to pay freaking attention. And Autopilot is REALLY bad when the road markers are faint (like they are now), so Teslas on autopilot are almost always poorly positioned in the lane.

1 1 was a race-horse, 2 2 was 1 2. When 1 1 1 1 race, 2 2 1 1 2.

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