Google's Secret 'Project Nightingale' Gathers Personal Health Data on Millions of Americans (wsj.com) 67
Google is teaming with one of the country's largest health-care systems on a secret project to collect and crunch the detailed personal health information of millions of Americans across 21 states, WSJ reported Monday, citing people familiar with the matter and internal documents. From the report: The initiative, code-named "Project Nightingale," appears to be the largest in a series of efforts by Silicon Valley giants to gain access to personal health data and establish a toehold in the massive health-care industry. Amazon.com, Apple and Microsoft are also aggressively pushing into health care, though they haven't yet struck deals of this scope. Google launched the effort last year with St. Louis-based Ascension, the country's second-largest health system. The data involved in Project Nightingale includes lab results, doctor diagnoses and hospitalization records, among other categories, and amounts to a complete health history, complete with patient names and dates of birth.
We need single payer healthcare with no pre ex (Score:5, Insightful)
We need single payer healthcare with no pre ex
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Re: We need single payer healthcare with no pre ex (Score:2)
"how in the hell does this NOT massively violate HIPAA?"
Because DUH LAW only applies to us commoners. Big Brother Google obeys no one (except maybe Emperor Xi).
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You. Are too insightful for this thread. Too insightful for this thread. So insightful it HURTS...
Right-o. Cuppa?
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Genuinely curious - for most folks even if taxes go up, their insurance premiums go away, so for the most part it's a wash.
What part are they lying about the costs?
For the record, I am registered neither Rebpulican or Democrat, I pick what policies I like, regardless of party. Getting rid of this mess of insurance BS is one of my hot button issues. It MUST be fixed.
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That's highly situational. With people with cheaper health care plans who are relatively healthy, there's a very good chance they end up paying more.
Where aren't they lying? Aside from the fact Warren does everything she can to admit she's hiking taxes, the estimations are a pipe dream (https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/nov/
Re:We need single payer healthcare with no pre ex (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you seen the juvenile diabetes cereal aisle at the grocery store?
Shared costs make sense in comparable risk pools, not when expensive behavior is open-ended and known to be costly.
Re: We need single payer healthcare with no pre ex (Score:2)
There's a week known correlation between being a hard hearted miser, and hypertension & its associated complications. Guess you should be on your own for healthcare too, buddy.
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>"We need single payer healthcare"
Yeah! That would solve everything! Just make the government in charge of it all; what could possibly go wrong...
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100% this.
I am also OK with Google having health data to you know, actually improve health.
However, it will probably be abused and misused by insurance companies to deny coverage.
This is why we need single payer now. Remove the stigma of USING healthcare. Wouldn't people getting routine checkups to find, treat, and even cure diseases (and therefore continuing to work and pay taxes) vs. finding it too late, costing a bunch of money, then dying?
The first thing you need to think of when someone has an accid
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Re:Its fine with me. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Its fine with me. (Score:2)
Because they are smarmy villains, so sneaking around like a thief in the night just comes naturally to them?
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If the information was de-identified, it would be one thing, but this sort of profiling creates exactly the type of profile that HIPAA is designed to prevent.
If patient's are being tricked into signing away their rights, the lawsuits could be... spectacular.
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Nope. We know what the problems are without needing more data. If we were to the point where more data would help, we wouldn't see health care as a problem.
Hidden pricing, for profit insurance, malpractice in general, are among the problems. They won't be resolved with more data.
Re: Its fine with me. (Score:2)
Stop Google now, before it's too late.
Um... HIPAA? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Um... HIPAA? (Score:5, Interesting)
Not if it's been de-identified [healthitsecurity.com] (A Government way of saying anonymized). If the data is anonymous, then there is not HIPAA constraint on sharing the data. Your doctor can say he has 17 patients with high blood pressure, and provide those BP measurements, without any issue - as long as there is no identification data provided.
Sure, but it's Google. They probably combine that data with Waze data (getting directions/traffic to your dr office), data purchased from credit card companies (paying copay), data mined from gmail (where the dr's office emailed you your appointment), etc to fairly accurately deanonymize that data.
^^^^ THIS ^^^^ (Score:2)
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Sure, but it's Google. They probably combine that data with Waze data (getting directions/traffic to your dr office), data purchased from credit card companies (paying copay), data mined from gmail (where the dr's office emailed you your appointment), etc to fairly accurately deanonymize that data.
I'm sure they do. What I'm not sure of, is whether de-anonymised data is sold by Google.
I would assume Google would hold that treasure trove for itself.
Re:Um... HIPAA? (Score:5, Informative)
Not if it's been de-identified [healthitsecurity.com] (A Government way of saying anonymized). If the data is anonymous, then there is not HIPAA constraint on sharing the data. Your doctor can say he has 17 patients with high blood pressure, and provide those BP measurements, without any issue - as long as there is no identification data provided.
Something about that last sentence in the summary seems to indicate that's not the case here: "The data involved in Project Nightingale includes lab results, doctor diagnoses and hospitalization records, among other categories, and amounts to a complete health history, complete with patient names and dates of birth."
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Someone should tell the RIAA and MPAA about your opinion on the matter.
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"The data involved in Project Nightingale includes lab results, doctor diagnoses and hospitalization records, among other categories, and amounts to a complete health history, complete with patient names and dates of birth."
They're not. That's not anonymous. That's the exact opposite of "de-identified".
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Re:Um... HIPAA? (Score:5, Insightful)
The article says that "probably legal" under the terms that allows hospitals to share data with business partners without telling patients, as long as the information is used “only to help the covered entity carry out its health-care functions.” However, I suspect (and hope) there'll be a lawsuit to challenge that interpretation. Helping Google develop its health care products is a tenuous tie to helping a hospital "carry out its health care functions." Where's the ACLU, this does feel like a 'civil liberties' concern.
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Re: Um... HIPAA? (Score:2)
illegal?
If it isn't illegal it should be, Too many companies think they're above the rules and regulations because too many idiots use their online services. Usage of an online service does not give blanket coverage to all personal information, especially HIPPA info without express consent. Time and time again corporations overstep propriety to the detriment of others. A day will soon come when all this overreach will slam down hard on these people.
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But, Project Nightingale, it must be for the greater good, think of the children (ahh the double speak is strong with the Googlites it's becoming their primary language). They are just trying to catch up with Windows anal probe 10 (serioulsy, go into a proctologists office and they stick that probe up there for quick peek, on a Windows 10 machine and M$ is right up there watching). Windows 10 watching you masturbate, well the Googlites want to pry and control your life, make you a product to be exploited an
It's a "secret" project because... (Score:5, Informative)
... it's a massive violation of the protections set up under HIPPA. Or, at least, the vast majority of Americans have been led to believe it's a violation of the law. And it would be a violation if your physician, nurse, or other healthcare provider did it---they are subject to the non-disclosure portion of HIPPA. Unfortunately, bastards like Google aren't going to be getting your health information from doctors and hospitals. Instead, they'll be going to your employer who is -- surprise, surprise -- exempt from the no-disclosure-without-your-permission parts of HIPPA. Most people think that HIPPA covers any and all disclosures but that there are entities -- the aforementioned employers, insurance companies, and others -- that aren't covered by that aspect of the law. This is rarely, if ever, mentioned. Just another example of our legislators bending over and passing legislative loopholes like this in exchange for bribes^Wcampaign contributions from corporations and hiding it from most of the public.
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Well that's nearly fucking useless. Chain only being as strong as the weakest link and all.
If there's one entity i wouldn't want having access to my health records, it's my employer. A very close second would be the scummiest company since Enron.
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Came here to make a HIPAA comment. I sure hope that Google can come up with a signed HIPAA waiver for every person whose data they access.
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How does your employer get that data? When I was on short term leave they got a "person's request for leave is approved" notice and "will return to work on" notice and that's it.
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From the article (since no one here reads those) (Score:5, Interesting)
"Some Ascension employees have raised questions about the way the data is being collected and shared, according to documents, but privacy experts said it appeared to be permissible under federal law. That law, the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996, generally allows hospitals to share data with business partners without telling patients, as long as the information is used “only to help the covered entity carry out its health-care functions.”
Google in this case is using the data, in part, to design new software, underpinned by advanced artificial intelligence and machine learning, that zeros in on individual patients to suggest changes to their care."
My commentary: What's the difference between Google getting this information and your insurance company getting this information? I don't see much of one. The Republicans Death Panels they accused the ACA of setting up are also known as insurance companies.
What would really bother me is Amazon getting it: (logs into Amazon) Hi there Dear and Valued User, would you like to try out Premium Care for $xxx/Mo.? We'll deliver affordable home health care and spirit away with body should you not make it. AND we're running a special on Amazon Funeral and Cremation Services this month, two for the price of one. Get it today and start saving!!
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I gave permission to my insurance company to have this information. I did not give Google permission.
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@gtall, re: Google vs Amazon, Amazon tries to sell you stuff based on user profile, yes. Google sells ads to people who try to sell you stuff based on user profile. So there is marginal difference.
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because my insurance company uses my information to send me ads for anything and everything under the sun as google does? my insurance companies biggerest revenue is from ads and marketing?
No, they don't. No, it isn't.
Fitbit acquisition (Score:2)
Re: Fitbit acquisition (Score:1)
Re: Fitbit acquisition (Score:1)
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There is indeed a culture of caring about health. https://health.google/ https://verily.com/
Already a Fail (Score:2)
Seems this "secret project" is already a fail as I am reading about it here. Not very secret is it?
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The Snowden revelations didn’t render all those secret government data collection efforts “a fail”, did they? It just unmasked them... which is what this report is doing.
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Initially read that as "Project Nightmare" (Score:4, Insightful)
Use an ad company (Score:2)
Sounds Familiar... (Score:2)
At the beginning of the 21st century, the Umbrella Corporation had become the largest commercial entity in the U.S.
Nine out of every ten homes contain its products.
lts political and financial influence is felt everywhere.
In public, it is the world's leading supplier of...computer technology, medical products and healthcare.
Unknown even to its own employees, its massive profits are generated by...military technology, genetic experimentation and viral weaponry.
surprise ! (Score:2)
Disgusting... (Score:1)
Counterpoint: We need this for better health care (Score:1)
Your doctor appointment is 15 minutes. This is the amount of time they have to ask you why you're here, what it isn't, what it might be, and come back later if you are still sick next week.
It treats short-term problems, without seeing longer term issues...unless you go to a specialist after multiple visits to your GP or multiple GP/urgent care. And the specialist is going to see things through their lens.
Imagine data science, which is vastly more efficient with larger sets of data. Yes, hospitals/doctors wi
Checkmate (Score:2)