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Transportation Science

Tesla Wants To Clean Windshields With Laser Beams (cnet.com) 98

Posted by EditorDavid from the lasers-on-stun dept.
Tesla "may be keen on replacing the humble windshield wiper with lasers," reports CNET. In a patent application filed this past May and published with the United States Patent and Trademark Office on Nov. 21, Tesla describes a "pulsed laser cleaning" for "debris accumulated" on glass, specifically for automotive application.

It also mentions this could be used for "photo-voltaic" applications. That's fancy-speak for solar panels...

According to the patent, Tesla imagines the system would work with a beam optics assembly to produce a laser that hunts down debris. A detection circuitry would be responsible for telling the system where to fire and remove dirt, grime and droppings. This same system would also take into account the laser's exposure level with pulses to ensure it didn't cut through the glass or harm occupants inside. Specifically, a calibration would "limit penetration of the laser beam to a depth that is less than a thickness of the glass article."

Such a system could do without chemicals and sprayers to take care of cleaning the windshield. Ditto for camera lenses and solar panels installed on a vehicle or structure.
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Tesla Wants To Clean Windshields With Laser Beams More

Tesla Wants To Clean Windshields With Laser Beams

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  • Not really (Score:5, Insightful)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Sunday December 08, 2019 @11:42AM (#59497854) Homepage Journal

    Such a system could do without chemicals and sprayers to take care of cleaning the windshield.

    You'd still need to wipe to remove stuff, and so you'd still need liquid to lift the stuff and avoid rubbing it against the windshield. The stuff on the windshield is more than just grease and bug parts, it's also silicates from tires and road surfaces, and dirt that's carried there by the wind. The laser isn't going to change the silicon in that stuff into another element. It might well be able to incinerate the bug guts and sap so that they can be removed, and that's great, but you're still going to need liquid and chemicals, and the liquid is still going to need some kind of antifreeze in the winter in freezing climates.

    • And yet none of the laser cleaners in industry require this wiping method you speak of, nor do they require liquids. But sure, armchair engineer away.

      • The windshield is made of silicates. The problem deposits on windshields are silicates. You can't remove them with a laser without damaging the windshield. It's not like removing rust from steel, where the two materials have different ablation thresholds. You can remove what's sticking them on, and that's an improvement. But you still need to wipe them away.

      • Re:Not really (Score:5, Interesting)

        by MobyDisk ( 75490 ) on Sunday December 08, 2019 @01:46PM (#59498228) Homepage

        I never heard of this concept before. Watching videos of laser cleaning online they all seem to require a blower. (Lots of the videos don't show the device, just the object being cleaned so it is hard to tell). Maybe the movement of the care will suffice?
        https://www.laserphotonics.com... [laserphotonics.com]
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

        • That's pretty cool to watch in action. Of course I doubt Tesla would be able to use something similarly effective in the windshields (and solar panels and whatever else) in their cars.... But still pretty cool to see in action. If remotely effective on windows and windshields in the car, it'd be nice to see in action and future uses of.

        • That's cool how it was able to take off the graffiti without messing up the paint beneath. I wonder if you can change the settings and burn the paint off the brick completely without damaging the brick. That would be useful wherever some dope painted the brick in the first place!

          Sam

          • I particularly liked how they could take an old rusty hunk of junk and make it look almost new.
            I wonder if gas torch could do as well.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by NFN_NLN ( 633283 )

        > And yet none of the laser cleaners in industry require this wiping method

        Hypothetical: Dirty salt water splashes on your windshield. Laser zaps the droplets, the water evaporates and leaves behind NaCl, CaCl, microparticles of sand. Maybe some organic matter burns off, same with some plastic which combusts.

        Now what about the dried on NaCl, CaCl and sand? You aren't suggesting it goes molten and flows down the windshield?

    • Re:Not really - left shark (Score:4, Funny)

      by flyingfsck ( 986395 ) on Sunday December 08, 2019 @01:14PM (#59498156)
      So now you need a friggen shark in the windscreen washer bottle?

  • Elon Musk (Score:4, Funny)

    by Arthur, KBE ( 6444066 ) on Sunday December 08, 2019 @11:43AM (#59497864)
    He's the greatest mind since Plato and Ptolemy. If anyone can make this work it will be him.

  • Please master normal wipers first - still 'beta' (Score:3, Informative)

    by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Sunday December 08, 2019 @11:47AM (#59497878) Homepage
    I have a Model S and a common complain is that the autowipers, frankly, suck. They're just not good at detecting when they should come on, and I'm forever faffing about manually with them. My car is from 2014, the auto wipers are still marked as 'beta'.

    The idea that I'd look to Tesla for good wipers is, frankly, laughable. Fix what you have first please. Oh, and a rear windscreen wiper option too.

    • Re:Please master normal wipers first - still 'beta (Score:5, Informative)

      by Rei ( 128717 ) on Sunday December 08, 2019 @11:57AM (#59497908) Homepage

      2014... that was still sensor-based wipers, no? Or are they using the current camera-based system? Not sure; that's a pretty old car.

      For the Model 3, the Bloomberg survey [bloomberg.com] of Model 3 owners put satisfaction rates for the autowipers as:

      Very dissatisfied: 2,3%
      Somewhat dissatisfied: 10,9%
      Neutral: 12,7%
      Somewhat satisfied: 38,9%
      Very satisfied: 35,2%

      That said, it is the second-worst ranked of 20 different aspects (the only one rated worse is voice commands). By contrast, the median-ranking would be the category "Interior materials":

      Very dissatisfied: 0,3%
      Somewhat dissatisfied: 1,0%
      Neutral: 4,2%
      Somewhat satisfied: 29,6%
      Very satisfied: 65,0%

      And the best category is "Driving enjoyment":

      Very dissatisfied: 0,2%
      Somewhat dissatisfied: 0,0%
      Neutral: 0,2%
      Somewhat satisfied: 1,3%
      Very satisfied: 98,3%

      • The satisfaction rating on something trivial like wind shield wipers should be 100%. This is a solved problem for every other maker. If adding "AI" to the wipers made them worse then that was another Musk fuck up. I like my 3 but there is a lot of stupid shit going on. I had to look up how to reboot the display the other day. C'mon, really?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Rei ( 128717 )

          The satisfaction rating on something trivial like wind shield wipers should be 100%.

          Are you kidding? Have you ever driven any other cars with autowipers? At work I sometimes have to drive a company vehicle (Skoda Yeti) and the autowipers in it drive me nuts.

          • Yes. I own a Mazda and a Hyundai. Both mid market models. Never once have I thought "jee I wish the wipers worked better". They got put on auto mode when I drove them out of the showroom, and never changed or even thought about since.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Rei ( 128717 )

              Okay, so right now, our "satisfaction rankings with other car manufacturers' autowiper systems" stands at "50% / 50%" very disappointed / very happy from a per-individual basis, and "33% / 66%" very disappointed / very happy from a per-vehicle basis. Model 3 is "2,3% / 35,2%" in this regard,

              Others are invited to add their own data, or - far better - look for actual statistics.

          • I didn't say auto wipers. I very specifically said wipers. They have a function, it is to clear the windshield of rain and light debris. I don't give a fuck if they are auto or not. That's just PR technobabble bullshit. They clean the wind shield or not. I do not need an AI and sensor system to save me from flicking a small lever that's right next to my hand the entire time I'm driving. The wind shield wipers on any car should get a 99% approval rating. The 1% are the jack asses who can't figure out
            • There is a manual mode for Tesla wipers. They work exactly like any other manual wiper. On/Off, four speeds. Lowest is intermittent. So it is a non issue.

              Auto wiper is the only issue. And as Rei said, it is one of the least satisfying parts of the Tesla experience.

              • Yes, I own a 3, thanks. I put it in manual mode because auto mode is stupid. Rei has no idea what owning a Tesla is like day to day. She doesn't own one and never has, so don't go there. I have infinitely more experience owning a Tesla than her. So, I paid some unknown but extra amount of money for the research/development, parts, installion, software, upgrades, and so on for a feature that needs to be turned off to work as well as my 1965 zero-tech Ford. Auto wipers are a stupid feature, 100% unsatis
            • Wipers are far from perfect. If there's any grime on the windshield harder than glass, the windshield gets scratched. Wiper blades get degraded by exposure to sun and atmosphere; they're rarely good for more than ten years. In snowy areas, they can get frozen in place, or even if they can move they don't clear the windshield.

      • 2014 models are "pretty old cars". That's lunacy yet typical Tesla fan syndrome.

        You also inadvertently demonstrated another issue with Teslas. There's no differentiating models between different years. A model 2 from 2017 is vastly different than 2016. There are several variations per year. Resale or trade on these things is going to be worthless.

      • 2014... that was still sensor-based wipers, no? Or are they using the current camera-based system? Not sure; that's a pretty old car.

        2014 is a "pretty old car" to you? Is 5 years even enough to make up the cost difference between electric and gasoline? Other than a.crash that would total a car or a major mechanical issue I can't think of a reason I would think of replacing a 5 year old car. And certainly wouldn't consider a 5 year old car as pretty old.

        • Re:Please master normal wipers first - still 'beta (Score:5, Informative)

          by Rei ( 128717 ) on Sunday December 08, 2019 @04:06PM (#59498574) Homepage

          2014 is a "pretty old car" to you?

          In terms of Teslas, absolutely. The Model S was only introduced in June of 2012. That's much closer to the beginning of the Model S line than the present. 2014 is pre-facelift, several generations of batteries back, entirely different powertrain, pre-HW3, pre-HW2.5, pre-HW2, possibly even pre-HW1 (e.g. no autonomy at all), etc etc. Just the range comparison alone - the longest range Model S available in 2014 was 265mi. Today it's 373mi.

          That in no way means it needs to be "replaced" - by any stretch. Still a great car. But it's a simple fact that there's been a huge amount of iteration on every aspect of the vehicle since then.

          • In terms of Teslas, absolutely. The Model S was only introduced in June of 2012.Â

            Maybe I'm just old. But I remember when cars got a significant refresh every year or two. Even then, I don't know of anyone who would have a 55 Chevy in 1960 and have considered it "pretty old". But you could see the difference between every year from a distance.

            • Yes, 99% of the 1955 Chevys would not be considered pretty old in 1960. They would be considered scrap.

              I see you tube videos of 1950s car ads confidently talking about resale value one year later.

              • Yes, because ads totally convey reality. Especially back before there was any legislation covering what could be in them.
                • Until about 1975, cars really did rust out in 3 years. A tremendous amount of research went into better paint and coating systems, which eventually started to pay off and the rust problem was finally solved by about 1985. Nowadays, a car can last 20 years and still be mostly rust free, but that sure wasn't the case long ago.

                  • Until about 1975, cars really did rust out in 3 years.

                    My first car, in 1995, was a rust-free 1960 Dodge Dart.

                    In road salt country you had to wash your undercarriage very regularly to keep the vehicle from rusting away to nothing, and actually stay on top of washing and waxing. But you've grossly overstated the case.

                    • Drinkypoo, buddy, this is [slashdot.org] your achievement list, achievement level 45, man forty five!, and you are my friend. You know better than to argue using anecdotal evidence.

    • A valid complaint. Though I don't see any big need for my wipers and lights to be automatic like more and more cars are doing.

      I'd be more interested in something that turns off the high beams of assholes around me that never turn them off when they see a car coming / are driving behind someone.

  • Do not look into laser with what remains of your eyes. At energy levels strong enough to have any cleaning effect, even slight reflections off surfaces at close distances will cause severe and permanent retinal damage. Imagine what happens if it tries to clean large ice crystals...
    • I don't think it's for the windshield. It's for cleaning the lenses of sensors that would be used for self-driving cars. Think of what a challenge that is, think of even the backup camera of your car now imagine the car won't work unless it is clean. Eyeballs have a pretty elaborate system of eyelids powered by muscles and tear ducts to clean them, not to mention arms and hands that can reach up to remove obstructions (like wiping away sweat) and there is a reason for all that. How this will be solved f

  • This is just crazy (Score:2, Insightful)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 )
    there aren't enough sharks for all those cars, and even if there were are consumers going to keep them fed just to have laser clean windows?
    • Did you miss the article on the Tesla Shark Breeding program? Using AI, block chain, and Big Data from 5 years ago (but renamed Tesla Kewl Data), you can expect to have a fully autonomous shark driving your Tesla taxi around for you all day making money while you're at work.

  • Patents != Implementation (Score:3)

    by Rei ( 128717 ) on Sunday December 08, 2019 @11:50AM (#59497898) Homepage

    Patenting something of course does not mean that it's actually going to be used any time soon; just that you think that it might be useful at some point. Probably more useful in the nearer term is their push for stronger glass. Often this involves polishing the outer layers off to remove microcracks that glass tends to fracture along. A side effect is that the more perfect surface is harder for water, dirt, grime, etc to stick to.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rei ( 128717 )

      Thinking about it more, I see two main advantages to the approach in the patent:

      1. Basically zero drag (wipers can be a significant drag element).
      2. Can position fibre lasers pretty much anywhere (e.g. including side windows and the like). The mass penalty for extra fibre runs is low, and the drag penalty negligible.

      I still see it as subpar for the windshield... there's a thickness of snow cover you can get on a windshield for which melt it off with your defrosters would take too long / too much energy, bu

  • I'm not sure how well this would work out to replace wipers, but it would be an excellent way to deice the windows on winter mornings!

  • What about the insides? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Sunday December 08, 2019 @11:57AM (#59497910)

    On a daily basis I drive behind people whose windows look like they have a layer of wax paper over them. That dull, white-gray film is a dead giveaway they haven't done the slightest bit of cleaning since they got their car. It's especially noticeable at this time of year when the sun is low on the horizon and their windshield turns a bright white when driving in the direction of the early morning or late afternoon sun, making it almost impossible to see where you're driving or what might be in front of them.

    The same with defrosting in the winder. It's easy to tell whose windshield hasn't been touched in years by how badly their windows defrost. Or don't defrost. They're the ones who drive in inclement weather with a four inch circle cleared out before them.

    This has to be an article from the Onion because anyone who has spent one minute cleaning a window so they can see where they're driving knows this will never work for a multitude of reasons.

  • $2000 wipers! (Score:3)

    by lessthan0 ( 176618 ) on Sunday December 08, 2019 @12:07PM (#59497934)

    Yes, let's replace $39 wipers with $2000 laser wipers! Great idea. As great as fully autonomous Teslas by the end of 2016. Elon is the greatest carnival barker of our time.

    • Why not? You can pre-pay $1500 now for laser wipers to be installed on your Tesla one day, just like you can pre-pay for full autopilot to be available one day. Don't worry about needing a hardware upgrade, already there are plenty of earlier model S cars that need new hardware to do full autopilot (or at least get up to the platform they have today, which appears to be ram-stopped-police-car-autopilot).

    • Yes, let's replace $39 wipers with $2000 laser wipers! Great idea.

      $39 wipers? You sound like you drive a cheap crap car. The rain sensors for the auto wiping function on my car alone cost more than that. Oh wait you didn't realise luxury cars was a thing?

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Train0987 ( 1059246 )

        Some of us aren't too lazy to turn on the damned windshield wipers when it starts to rain. I'd be ashamed to have automatic windshield wipers. Just one more computer sensor to break, will be obsolete in a few years and completely impossible to service or replace 10 years from now.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by hipp5 ( 1635263 )
          It's not a feature I'd ever deliberately buy, but they came installed on my used Volvo. I use the manual wiper settings a lot, but I've come to really appreciate the automatic setting for those "light rain" situations where you need an irregular wiping timing.

      • Yes, let's replace $39 wipers with $2000 laser wipers! Great idea.

        $39 wipers? You sound like you drive a cheap crap car. The rain sensors for the auto wiping function on my car alone cost more than that. Oh wait you didn't realise luxury cars was a thing?

        Not all of us are over compensating for something.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jimbo ( 1370 )

      All bigger companies I've worked for was patenting everything they could think of, the vast majority of which was never even considered for implementation. Everybody were encouraged to bring up ideas with legal dept and there were bonus systems, such as $500 for a patent application, $1000 for a patent or more.

      Ideas were never reviewed for viability, only whether there was a chance of getting it accepted.

    • If you think this is good, wait til you see the replacement for headlight fluid!

  • Comment removed (Score:3)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday December 08, 2019 @12:11PM (#59497946)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Many sharks could use this type of application to help clean their night-vision goggles and heads-up displays while they're on the go.

  • Imagine, never having to clean your "knife" after cutting cheese or a birthday cake. Almost everything can be improved with the addition of lasers. Sharks with lasers, just try to make shark fin soup now. Roomba with extra lasers for that deep down clean. BBQ pits, add a laser for a perfect smoke ring.

  • Wouldn't do a thing for road salt (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Like some other Tesla features, this would be useless in northern climates that still experience what our generation calls "winter".

  • When I started driving ... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Alain Williams ( 2972 ) <addw@phcomp.co.uk> on Sunday December 08, 2019 @12:29PM (#59497992) Homepage

    after not very long the front of the car would be covered with squashed bugs. This does not happen any more. Where have all the bugs gone ?

    • They have moved with the fields. Do you still live around fields? Are there as many fields as there were before? I know the front of my motorcycle (and my helmet visor) get nicely coated quite often as I drive through the fields around Ventura and Oxnard. Enough so that by the time I reach Point Mugu, I often pull over to clean off the visor before continuing on down into Santa Monica.
    • If they have lasers on the car, why not zap the bugs before they reach the windshield? Patent pending!

  • High power pulsed lasers (enough power to evaporate debris) mounted on a windshield. Sounds *completely* safe.

    I guess they will probably operate in the eye-safe wavelength range, but that isn't an absolute.

  • Can't wait for the shark vacuum with lasers!

  • It will kill pedos (or people Muskie thinks are pedos) on sight.

  • It will be interesting how it handles winter. 1. Ice on the windshield when I return to the car when it wa parked outside in bad weather. 2. Freezing rain 3. Following a truck on wet dirty roads with that molasses bases salt mix that sticks to everything. 4. Heavy snowfall. When it starts to accumulate and you need the wipers to push it off.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Or for that matter a regular heavy rainstorm. I often have driven through downpours that are so heavy that even with conventional wipers in good condition going full speed you can barely see. But you are on the freeway and it would be more dangerous to stop.

      What kind of energy would lasers have to output to cope with that? And how the hell do you keep a system like that safe?

      I'm as much a Tesla fanboi as anyone but I just don't see it working.

  • Weponize it (Score:4, Funny)

    by wolfheart111 ( 2496796 ) on Sunday December 08, 2019 @01:39PM (#59498208)
    For all those Tesla haters. Key my car, Ill fry your ass.
    • shhh! don't give out the secret real purpose of putting lasers on the car. Bio-weapon defense mode already done. Getting ready for the offense mode.

  • MN's windshields often covered with several inches of snow and/or 1/4" ice sheets will chuckle at the attempt.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by uncqual ( 836337 )

      No problem. However, clearing the windshield will take 250 miles of range off the battery charge.

  • ..WITH REMAINING GOOD EYE.
    Elon, why you so crazy? Come on, man, put the bong down already. What's next, you going to marry a duck? xD
    How about this: if the total energy required to clean your windshield with a laser system exceeds the energy required for you to fill the washer reservoir and turn on the wipers, then maybe it's not such a great idea? Also, laser beams flying around when you're driving? Blinds you, blinds another driver?
    Maybe I wasn't kidding: put the bong down, dude.
  • I've been using Aquapel for over a year, and this stuff ROCKS! Use to use Rain-X, but that crap stops working too soon. Aquapel smells when applying but who cares! What's really nice is if you get snow/ice build up, just run your car defroster for a minute and everything slides right off!

  • where to fire and remove dirt, grime and droppings

    The next iteration (will require a battery upgrade) uses the same basic principles to eliminate obstacles, cyclists and pedestrians in the vehicle's path.
    It will first be made available to the military

    What could possibly go wrong?

  • Using it on Photo Voltaic solar panels (Score:3)

    by Dusty ( 10872 ) on Sunday December 08, 2019 @03:12PM (#59498460) Homepage

    If the panel could absorb enough of the laser's energy to power the laser, instant free power...

  • Not a single comment on Mars, and not a single slashdotter get's Elon's motive here.

    All of Elon's projects are building blocks for a Mars colony. Seems like this is a pretty handy way to clean grit in a place where you have limited water.

    • Not a single comment on Mars, and not a single slashdotter get's Elon's motive here.

      All of Elon's projects are building blocks for a Mars colony. Seems like this is a pretty handy way to clean grit in a place where you have limited water.

      So why not put it on all the windows at tesla hq and sack off the window cleaners.

  • Likely inspired by the clone commando T-visor from Star Wars Republic Commando: https://gfycat.com/ifr/BlindSi... [gfycat.com]
  • The cops will begin to complain the their laser wipers interfere with the laser speed detectors in use. Fail.

    • The cops will begin to complain the their laser wipers interfere with the laser speed detectors in use.

      Irrelevant. It's not illegal unless their purpose is to interfere with a speed measuring device. Also probably wrong, anyway. They bounce the laser off your license plate.

  • The lasers are so fast, and unaffected by the slip stream it is designed to hit the bugs and vaporize them before they hit the windshield. Remember the team funded by Microsoft that zapped mosquitoes by laser? Same team found a new job in Fremont.

  • Another sci-fi nonsense idea to keep him in the news.

    Seriously, try going a couple of days without saying something stupid to attract attention, and try actually building some cars that people want to buy.

  • I can think of plenty of materials that would become a molten damaging mass to be embedded permanently in the glass

  • Eye safety in consumer devices is an issue. High power lasers are tools like lathes, water jet cutters, oxyacetylene torches or chainsaws. They should be treated with respect and a modicum of knowledge. The danger with lasers, that since they usually operate in the invisible wavelength ranges ensuring safety with insufficiently informed consumers is something to be very concerned about. Imagine a chainsaw with an invisible chain.

  • Let's face it, not everyone drives Teslas. Not everyone drives, period. But one thing that everyone has, is trash.

    So why limit your idea to windshields? Have every home equipped with the ultra-version of this thing, and we might possibly reduce our own personal carbon footprint significantly, without contributing even more greenhouse gases in the process. (And if Elon cannot make this to market, there's always his blowtorch-as-backup-product)

    Today's captcha: jellies, as in, you know jellies of his fortune.

    • That's backwards. "Vaporization" (what lasers do) involves turning the material into a vapor. Your solution takes your banana peel and instead of letting it turn into compost, turns it all into CO2.

      Burning trash is horrible for the environment, and burning it with lasers doesn't make it better.

  • Why have a wiper outside with lasers pointing in? Run the wiper inside the windshield with laser pointing out. In conjunction with an exterior, conformal, air-curtain it would keep glass free of both water and particulate matter.

    Or have two wipers, an inside wiper pointing lasers out, faithfully following the outside wiper, that also blows an airjets to get rid of water and particluate matter faster.

  • "Captain, sensors indicate the blue Tesla is charging lasers!'

    "Raise shields, prepare forward rail-guns!"

  • It also mentions this could be used for "photo-voltaic" applications. That's fancy-speak for solar panels...

    "Solar panels"? That's fancy-speak for sun beams conversion sheets.

  • ...think I am buying anything that goes firing lasers around my precious eyesight, they must be be high, as George Carlin would say. Sorry, no sale.

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