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Microsoft Windows Operating Systems IT Technology

Microsoft is About To Start Aggressively Advertising Windows 10 To Windows 7 Stragglers (betanews.com) 266

Mark Wycislik-Wilson, writing for BetaNews: Having already started to notify Windows 7 hangers on that support is due to come to an end, Microsoft is now ready to get a little more aggressive. If you haven't moved on from Windows 7, soon you will see full-screen notifications warning you that "your Windows 7 PC is out of support." The messages are due to be displayed from the day after support ends. So when January 15 rolls around, anyone who has doggedly stuck with Windows 7 will find that they not only have no support and no security updates, but also that they are pestered by an invasive message delivered by a program called EOSnotify.exe.
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Microsoft is About To Start Aggressively Advertising Windows 10 To Windows 7 Stragglers

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  • by WillAffleckUW ( 858324 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @05:16PM (#59509838) Homepage Journal

    No, really.

    • by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @06:13PM (#59510120)

      Sadly, that is what I will have to do. My W7 machine runs perfectly, plays the one game I have (Rome Total War) and lets me do whatever I want, however I want, without interfering in my choices.

      I'm not going to W10 since it's nothing but Clippy on double steroids, and Macs, well, you don't get what you pay for. That only leaves Linux.

      The hard part will be trying to find photo editing software, though even that may not be a big deal with Nikon dropping support for all of its third party repairs.

      *sigh* I guess leaving well enough alone isn't the right thing to do any more.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by gbjbaanb ( 229885 )

        I resisted going to W10 for a long time.

        Then I did, and frankly its got a few useless UI changes (that can often be replaced) but generally its pretty much the same.

        You will want to turn off all the spyware and phone-style guff they put in, but that's a one-off ticklist of steps off the internet.

        • by nmb3000 ( 741169 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @06:35PM (#59510214) Journal

          Then I did, and frankly its got a few useless UI changes (that can often be replaced) but generally its pretty much the same.

          You will want to turn off all the spyware and phone-style guff they put in, but that's a one-off ticklist of steps off the internet.

          I went through this same process on my work desktop (but have stuck with Win7 at home). You're not wrong, but you did leave off one very important part:

          You will want to turn off all the spyware and phone-style guff they put in, but that's a one-off ticklist of steps off the internet and then redoing the same thing every single time they push out a forced update.

          The lack of control and the aggressive anti-consumer attitude of Microsoft when it comes to Windows 10 and the current update process is the primary reason I have avoided Windows 10 at home. The clunky and stupid UI changes and usability regressions are just icing on the crap cake.

          • "and then redoing the same thing every single time they push out a forced update."

            That is why GPO's were invented. There are only three things that require continuous manual fixing:

            (1) The Windows Firewall will keep letting every little piece of Microsoft Malware accept incoming unsolicited connections, and you have to keep turning this ability off. This cannot be fixed with GPO's -- Microsoft simply overwrites the Firewall configuration with their desired settings every time an update is applied.

            (2) You

          • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

            Well, I have never appled and I have managed to keep a windows 7 install going from first install, no re-intall, I had to dual boot Linux of course to be able to repair and keep the windows 7 install going but managed it. So now, well, I have never appled in all my time of computing decades, never owned one, so before I kick on, I will at leastr apple once, when the windows 7 pc dies, probably turn it into a rebuild Linux only boot.

            M$ can go fuck itself if it ever thinks I will bother with Windows anal prob

        • by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @07:05PM (#59510350)

          but generally its pretty much the same.

          No, it's not. Not even close. I work with W10 every day at work. I help support thousands of machines running it. My dad has a W10 machine I also help support from time to time. In no way, shape, or form is W10 pretty much the same as W7.

          First, in W7, similar items are grouped together. For example, on the W7 I'm using, when I click the start button, my default is Restart. Clicking the arrow gives me every other option I could want. Not so in W10. They split out the options into separate groups. This doesn't even go into having to play hide and seek in W10 when trying to find even simple items to change. As far as I can tell, W10 was deliberately designed to be as user-unfriendly as possible through the hiding of functions and giving them names which have no relation to their functions.

          Second, the Start menu itself is far superior in W7 than 10, not the least of reasons being there's an actual scroll bar in 7 and not some hair thin line you have to find like in 10. I can grab that bar and go all the way down my list with the flick of a finger whereas with 10 you have to hunt and peck and hope the line expands for something to latch onto.

          Third, W7 is just plain cleaner. Unlike W10 with its shitfest of tiles and programs which can't be removed from the taskbar, W7's appearance is much easier on the eyes and much simpler to use.

          W10 sucks. There is no other way to say it. And what makes it worse are the idiots doing the testing of new "features" who clearly don't take their meds or who have never seen, let alone used, an OS which doesn't get in your way every chance it gets. The best OS I have ever used was W2K. Fantastic stuff. Fast, simple to use, rock steady. It let you get work done and when you were done working, it let you play.

          • by OrangeTide ( 124937 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @07:42PM (#59510502) Homepage Journal

            It drives me crazy that Microsoft shuffles around the UI for basic configuration items every release. I get used to stuff on XP, then Vista shuffles it around, I get used to W7, then W10 moves everything around. And none of it seems to be easier or faster to find. It's just moved for the sake of not having the GUI look the same as before.

            • by lgw ( 121541 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @07:56PM (#59510566) Journal

              I've never understood why they did that. I try to lean to incompetence over malice, but it's hard.

              What I can't handle at all it their newish "gray on slightly different gray" UI color scheme. I tried using Edge, and I cant read any of the UI text. WTF guys? I guess the war on contrast was not won by the good guys.

          • The best OS I have ever used was W2K. Fantastic stuff. Fast, simple to use, rock steady. It let you get work done and when you were done working, it let you play.

            Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have just enough experience with the scourge known as Windows 10 to agree with the rest of your comment. But that last part really resonates - my adoption of Linux was driven by the move from 2000 to XP. I've since learned how to make an XP system look and work substantially like 2000; but 2000 didn't require that fiddling - it was simply good and intuitive OOTB.

          • Install ClassicShell. Problem solved.

      • I'm not going to W10 since it's nothing but Clippy on double steroids, and Macs, well, you don't get what you pay for. That only leaves Linux.

        Win2K Server was the last good version. Everything after that has been reskins of vista or "clippy on double steroids". There is hardly any philosophical difference between W7 and W10, other than the extra amount of low-level spyware (a.k.a telemetry).

        But really, why both with W10. There is no killer feature to it for most of us (any of us?). Why do I have to upgrade all my shit on Microsoft's whim, when I struggle to justify the expense and time wasted?

        If keeping those security updates going isn't covered

        • by lgw ( 121541 )

          It's easy to make Win7 look like W2K, with the extra bits that are actaully good, like the 2 notification icons you actually want to see. I use the server version of Win7 for most things, as there less garbage to disable than Win7, but it's otherwise the same.

          Not sure what I want to do going forwards. I find the Ubuntu UI to be "Windows but worse", and I've grown to really hate it after a couple years of using it at work. Plus it has it's own spyware - just a little, but that's like just a little sewage

      • by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *

        My W7 machine runs perfectly

        I was in that situation until recently. Then I decided it was time for a new CPU. Guess what - Windows 7 does not have drivers for the new CPUs, USB 3, etc. So if you ever want better than your Core i7 you are gong to be forced to upgrade. To be honest Windows 10 isn't as bad as I though it would be. You just have to turn the spyware/telemetry off for real (not Microsoft's fake "opt out" menu choices that don't actually opt you out), but there are plenty of websites that list how to do that.

        • by rossdee ( 243626 )

          "Guess what - Windows 7 does not have drivers for the new CPUs, USB 3, etc."

          My Dell desktop that came with Win7 works fine with USB3

          and the Core I7is fast enough for me

      • by chmod a+x mojo ( 965286 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @10:06PM (#59511058)

        The hard part will be trying to find photo editing software, though even that may not be a big deal with Nikon dropping support for all of its third party repairs.

        Darktable builds on Linux ( and I think is in most repos ), and superficially looks like Lightroom. The workflow is different, at least until you set up all the various plugins the way you want, but you can get just as good of results as Lightroom, unless you rely super heavily on presets made specifically for LR. I don't remember if they were working on a LR plugin layer or not, but I thought they were.

        All in all, I still prefer LR, just because it's what I'm used to using on both Win and Mac, but Darktable would be a serious contender if I had to go Linux only.

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Indeed. I will move gaming to Win10 (not all I want is available on Linux) and a will keep a Win10 VM for MS Office. Everything else will go to Linux.

  • by gavron ( 1300111 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @05:23PM (#59509868)

    Microsoft has always been a tone-deaf bully. Releasing PR that says you're going to "agressively" hassle your customers doesn't change that.

    Isn't it great when your vendor is going to "agressively" push to make you upgrade your product.

    I can't wait for Comcast to "agressively" tell me I need 1 Gbps, and put out a press release ahead of time saying "We think 100Mbps is obsolete, and we're now telling everyone to upgrade."

    Maybe my gas station will "agressively" email me to stop buying 91 octane gasoline and go for 93.

    E

    • Isnt windows 10 free? I know for a while they were giving the shit away.

    • The Win 7 to Win 10 downgrade/upgrade is still free, something which makes your Comcast and gas station analogies rather irrelevant.
      In some ways Win 10 is actually better than Win 7, unfortunately there are three big drawbacks:
      - Win 10 is so ugly, Win 7 is simply easier to use.
      - this whole "forced update" thing, although it is not as bad as it was.
      - All your secrets belong to us.
      There may be more drawbacks but I can't think of any offhand. I have been "stuck" on Win 7 because of two programs - the reasons

      • The Win 7 to Win 10 downgrade/upgrade is still free,.

        It is? Since when? That giveaway ended after the first year that Windows 10 came out.

      • "I have been "stuck" on Win 7 because of two programs"

        What 2 16-bit WIMP-on-DOS programs have this problem ... certainly no properly written 32-bit or 64-bit Windows native software does -- unless it was built using Microsoft Fly-by-Night technologies (in which case this should expected). I have 32-bit native Windows apps from the turn-of-the-century that still work just fine on Windows 10 -- and I would expect them to keep working forever unless the Win32 API changes -- and it has not changed for decades

        • Several database technologies stopped working with Win 8, and a lot of bespoke business software written by programmers or teams which are no longer employed by the users will not work on later OS versions. I agree this is crappy lazy programming and foolish use of poorly supported tech (including a whole generation from Microsoft themselves) but it's reality if you are one of these businesses.
    • Don't be surprised. The worst ideas always seem to spread like wildfire.
    • by dwywit ( 1109409 )

      I anticipate a lot of work out of this. My customers are going to call and ask how to stop the "aggressive" full-page nag screen.

      I will tell them that I can disable the nag, but they really should consider upgrading (including hardware, if necessary), but if they choose not to upgrade, then they'll need a serious anti-malware suite (and no, not Symantec, McAfee, Trend Micro, AVG, Avast, or any of the other crappy items - I'll probably recommend eset or Malwarebytes). I'll also tell them that it's risky.

      Or I

  • EO Snotify (Score:5, Funny)

    by linuxwrangler ( 582055 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @05:24PM (#59509876)

    Am I the only one who read that executable as EO Snotify? Seems appropriate, anyway.

  • Funny (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @05:26PM (#59509886)
    I just moved some stuff to Windows 7 after getting tired of Windows 10 updates breaking the install.

    So Microsoft? Kiss my ass. Spend more time on fixing your turd of an operating system, and less on nagging.

    • Re:Funny (Score:5, Funny)

      by WoodstockJeff ( 568111 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @05:33PM (#59509922) Homepage

      Well, OBVIOUSLY your programs were doing DANGEROUS things like, well, WORKING before, and had to be STOPPED for your SAFETY!

      • Well, OBVIOUSLY your programs were doing DANGEROUS things like, well, WORKING before, and had to be STOPPED for your SAFETY!

        It's sad, but that's about where we are.

        • Its sounds like either A) Local Government or B) Public school systems these days.

          • by nmb3000 ( 741169 )

            Its sounds like either A) Local Government or B) Public school systems these days.

            Ironic, considering A) Microsoft is a private company, and B) it's the private "charter" schools that we find are scamming kids and parents and stealing money.

  • by Misagon ( 1135 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @05:28PM (#59509900)

    I think that most people who use Windows 7 don't do it because they are stubborn. They do it for a very important, specific reason.
    That reason is an application, or hardware or a combination of the two that never had any support on Windows 10, but which has its uses.

    • by PingXao ( 153057 )

      I was actually looking forward to Windows 10 when it was under development. I decided to stick with Windows 7 after learning about Microsoft's "telemetery" that could not be switched off.

      I have the same position headed into January. If I can't turn telemetery off completely, then I will not install Windows 10. They can spy on all the sheep they can find, but I won't be one of them.

      • Windows 7 updates have included telemetry.

        • Windows 7 updates have included telemetry.

          Which savvy users could easily block by not installing certain updates. But the Windows 7 telemetry updates were obviously foreboding of what was to come.

        • But in Windows 7 you didn't have to install them...

    • by Calydor ( 739835 )

      Well, in my case I just have a net connection that's bad enough I can't afford the bandwidth for Win10's 'features' like not letting me choose when to run updates and showing ads for programs I totally need in the Start menu.

    • by DogDude ( 805747 )
      Absolutely. Switching OS's is a big deal if those computers are doing something important, like running a business. We can't switch because our "apps" aren't ready yet. It'll be a huge undertaking for us. I don't appreciate being forced from Windows 7 at all. Unfortunately, there just aren't any other viable alternatives for us.
    • but which has its uses.

      As long as that use is not on an internet facing machine then more power to them. But the world is enough of a cesspool of malware without even more vaccinated users travelling to foreign countries and bringing home diseases. Wait did I get my stories crossed?

    • I think that most people who use Windows 7 don't do it because they are stubborn. They do it for a very important, specific reason

      Yes, and that reason is telemetry you can't disable. I can avoid telemetry on Win7 with remove_crw after installing updates, but you can't avoid it on Win10. Even if I weren't concerned about privacy issues, I still wouldn't want the excess network activity.

      I'm pretty sure everything I want to run either already won't run on Win7 so I run it in a WinXP VM[ware], or will run on Win10. But fuck Win10. Win7 will be my last windows, and I will put it in a VM and go back to running Linux on the bare metal when i

    • For the vast majority of people on 7, I'd wager it's because the computer does what they want it to do (browsing, email, solitaire, online banking). It's basically an appliance. These Luddites are the same types who wouldn't upgrade a perfectly functioning toaster just because there's a new one out there with an iOS app that lets you finely tune the temperature and level of toastiness. (utter and complete savages)

      Also is the risk of malware really that great? (assuming you don't treat un-solicited email a

  • by rnturn ( 11092 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @05:31PM (#59509906)

    "It said to install Windows 10 or better. So I installed Linux."

    (Which is very likely the upgrade path the missus' Win7 laptop will be following.)

  • So does running the image on Azure (with 'free' extended support) simply set a registry key that tells this stupid program not to run?

  • by UnknownSoldier ( 67820 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @05:39PM (#59509942)

    If I didn't want to downgrade to your spyware shit back then I certainly don't want it now!

    I've already upgraded my i7 4770K on Windows 7 to a Threadripper 1920X (soon to be 3960X) on Linux. If Steam games don't work under Linux then I'm not really interested. As I get older I find I have less time for gaming. This is also no big deal since Minecraft is playable on my Windows, Mac, and Linux computers anyways.

    Can we send a letter to Microsoft?

    Dear Microsoft,

    If you can't even respect my choice then I can't respect your forced BULLSHIT.

    Now kindly please FUCK OFF.

    Signed,
    Techies of the Internet.

    • I've been out of the PC gaming loop for a very long time. The most recent game for me was Unreal Tournament 2004 and that was mostly to play the Unwheel racing mod. How is PC gaming nowadays? Are any of the titles still worth sticking with M$, and do the more popular ones run under Linux?
      • I've been out of the PC gaming loop for a very long time. The most recent game for me was Unreal Tournament 2004 and that was mostly to play the Unwheel racing mod.

        How is PC gaming nowadays? Are any of the titles still worth sticking with M$, and do the more popular ones run under Linux?

        Yes, many modern games are worth a whirl. At least, more modern than unreal 2004 with a racing mod.

        Codemasters has done wonders on F1 racing Sims, so has done Forza Horizon and others. Also, you may like Rocket league, think football (not the hand-ovoid they play in the USoA) but with cars instead of people.

        Other worthy (IMO) titles are the two portals (and all the mods), the firts two batmans in the Arkham series, soma, and left4dead2 (and em mods).

        In the linux front, valve used the mac world to jumpstart

      • PC gaming is in a really good spot. The games industry as a whole is heavily involved in shitty MTX (micro-transactions) so I'll ignore THAT topic but overall we have some really great games, especially if you are into the hardcore sim racing scene.

        We are being subjected to less and less shitty console ports -- the ports are slowly getting better when you aren't running into 30 fps frame locked games, or crappy performance for having too MANY cores! (/me glares at GTA5, RDR2). PC master race at 4K 60 fps is

        • by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *
          And if you're heavily into military flight sims, Falcon 4.0 has evolved beautifully with BMS [simhq.com], and DCS [digitalcom...ulator.com] with a high end graphics card is an absolute dream, despite a few bugs with specific ordnance/sensors they never seem to get around to fixing.
  • "Windows has detected a superior operating system (Linux) on your computer. Would you like to remove it? [YES] [YES] - What Micro$oft would love to do" Looks like this is starting to come to pass but substitute Linux for Windows 7.
  • by So many Nicks ( 6452220 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @05:47PM (#59509984)
    It is one thing to not provide further support. It is quite another thing to sabotage an otherwise working product.
  • about time they release it, don't you think?
  • by mkoenecke ( 249261 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @06:16PM (#59510132) Homepage
    I have Windows 7 on my desktop and Windows 10 on my laptop, and vastly prefer using my desktop. I like being able to search for files using Windows 7's native search function instead of having the search default to Cortana and/or Websites. If I want to search for something on the Internet, I'll do it from a browser. I absolutely HATE Windows 10 constantly renaming folders I have used for years and years to its own preferred cutesy names (e.g., c:\Data\Documents repeatedly becomes "c:\Data\My Documents"). Despise Windows 10's Start Menu, though at least that, for one thing, is easily replaced. Really loathe constant hammering on me to tie everything into a Microsoft account. I have chosen to use my Google account to synch my schedule and contacts between these and my Android phone, and do not want an additional level of complication with the system having copies of that information as well. Yeah, I know, Microsoft wants to be my go-to buddy for all my information and browsing, and I am definitely aware that Google is little different, but I want to retain options and avoid as much vendor lock-in as possible. (Linux is not an option; I'm an attorney, and have too many things that rely on non-open source software.) Frankly, I think many aspects about use of personal computers have been going downhill for many years now, as vendors keep "updating" nicely optimized software to generate new revenue. That's the way of the computing world, of course. Sure, I know that with some research and effort I can use utilities to customize and/or fix all of these issues, and realize that I eventually will have to adapt. But I am not particularly thrilled with the prospect.
    • Indexing service kept punching my Win7 performance in the nuts by indexing even when my machine was busy, so I switched to searching with Everything. It's vastly better than the native search.

  • If Microsoft designed my car, then tomorrow morning, I'd get in my car, go to start it, and the ignition button wouldn't be there. I would have to spend five minutes trying to figure out how to start my car. Eventually, I would figure out that the ignition button is now in the glove box. Once I got my car started, I'd notice that there are no longer any pedals. I'd look at the steering wheel, and see that there is now a thumb-operated throttle and a hand-operated brake. The speedometer would be in KPH

  • by dbreeze ( 228599 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @06:39PM (#59510232)

    ...they have all the symptoms of the abused member of a dysfunctional relationship. Not much they say matters, Microsoft is unquestionably in charge. They are warned that they likely could not function in another relationship(unless MS supervises it). Their needs are completely secondary to Microsoft's needs.
    Anyone else see the similarities?

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Well, end of January, I will have a gaming machine on Win10 and a win10 VM for MS Office on my laptop on top of Linux and that will be it with MS platforms. Only gaming-related web-surfing on that Win10 machine, everything else including email goes to Linux. (Yes, I know, I already use LibreOffice for all my own documents, but I need MS Office for work. I have a "bring your own workstation and server" deal here. It is a small company.)

  • by WaffleMonster ( 969671 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @06:44PM (#59510260)

    I find it fascinating companies believe they can throw out defective unsafe products that place end users at unnecessary peril and then arbitrarily absolve themselves of any and all responsibility for them.

    Instead of companies being thankful their end users tolerate the parade of never ending streams of updates to fix problems that should have NEVER EXISTED in the first place companies turn around and use the fact that their products are inherently defective and unsafe for purpose as a weapon to compel people to take action which further enriches the company.

    This behavior is fundamentally wrong and if not illegal it should be.

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      I agree. The only reason there need to be security updates at all is because MS delivered a defective product and has still not fully fixed it. While I do understand that they cannot actually do that, as long as they create security fixes, I think they should be legally obligated to distribute them to all users and at no cost to private users. (I am fine with billing businesses.) After all, these are _their_ screw-ups they are fixing.

    • So Ford still provides safety enhancements for your P.O.S. Pinto free of charge? How often does Rheem provide you with free replacements of your hot water heater?
      • So Ford still provides safety enhancements for your P.O.S. Pinto free of charge?

        My P.O.S was manufactured in the late 90's and I'm still getting recall notices for it and yes the work is free of charge.

        How often does Rheem provide you with free replacements of your hot water heater?

        If the hot water heater has a defect that causes it to explode or turn into a missile you better believe the very least Rheem would do is provide me with a free replacement.

    • by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *
      Let me know when you write the perfect OS. Even linux is not perfect and Linus has spent his whole life on it.
    • I think it's a bit much to expect software to be perfect out of the gate. If that was the metric everyone followed, you wouldn't get software. Even projects like OpenBSD that prioritize writing software to minimize bugs out of the gate still have the occasional bug crop up.

      I do think that Microsoft should focus on security and stability a bit more than they currently do, but expecting perfect software that never needs updates doesn't seem realistic to me.
  • moved to our New Ad/Data Collection platform.

    Just my 2 cents ;)
  • Is this "feature" epoxied inside one of their "roll-up" updates, or is it a standalone "security" update? If the latter, which KB number do I look for and block when running Windows Update?
  • by OrangeTide ( 124937 ) on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @07:33PM (#59510470) Homepage Journal

    They pushed very hard that I need to buy a new computer.

    I have an overclocked i3-6100 with 32 GB of RAM and a GeForce 1070 Ti. My current games play just fine on it. I have so many unplayed games from years of Steam sales that I'm not likely to get around to any bleeding edge games for many years.

    I'm not looking to buy a new computer, so I'll stick with Windows 7 if that's my only choice. (and dual boot Linux for an easy "upgrade" path, easier than Win10 at least). Other than my games library, what else do I want run? A web browser, a compiler, a text editor. Nothing that strictly needs Windows 10.

  • Win10 on our office's systems.
    2 updates in 2 days.
    EACH of them broke different crap.

    Yeah.

  • The notice from MS said if my notebook was more than 3 years old, consider getting a new one with Windows 10 already on it. It was great advice.

  • ... Damned if they don't.

    (consumer) Windows 7 won't be receiving security updates past that point, and every unsecured windows 7 pc on the internet is a liability for everyone else. Without critical security updates, it's just a matter of time before that 'perfectly fine' windows 7 pc becomes a spam relay, part of a botnet, bitcoin miner, or some other garbage that will cause problems and/or annoyance for everyone else who does stay current on their security updates.

    If you haven't upgraded from windo

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