Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Transportation AI Privacy

How Much Are Cars Spying On Their Owners? (seattletimes.com) 101

"We're at a turning point for driving surveillance," reports the Washington Post (in an article shared by long-time Slashdot reader davidwr ). "In the 2020 model year, most new cars sold in the United States will come with built-in Internet connections, including 100 percent of Fords, GMs and BMWs and all but one model Toyota and Volkswagen."

Often included for free (or sold as an add-on), these connections mean "Cars are becoming smartphones on wheels," collecting and sending data "pretty much wherever their makers want. Some brands even reserve the right to use the data to track you down if you don't pay your bills...." On a recent drive, a 2017 Chevrolet collected my precise location. It stored my phone's ID and the people I called. It judged my acceleration and braking style, beaming back reports to its maker General Motors over an always-on Internet connection... Modern vehicles don't just have one computer. There are multiple, interconnected brains that can generate up to 25 gigabytes of data per hour from sensors all over the car... Most hide what they're collecting and sharing behind privacy policies written in the kind of language only a lawyer's mother could love...

The Tesla Model 3 can collect video snippets from the car's many cameras. Coming next: face data, used to personalize the vehicle and track driver attention... Coming 5G cellular networks promise to link cars to the Internet with ultra-fast, ultra-high-capacity connections. As wireless connections get cheaper and data becomes more valuable, anything the car knows about you is fair game. GM's view, echoed by many other automakers, is that we gave them permission for all of this...

Five years ago, 20 automakers signed on to volunteer privacy standards, pledging to "provide customers with clear, meaningful information about the types of information collected and how it is used," as well as "ways for customers to manage their data." But when I called eight of the largest automakers, not even one offered a dashboard for customers to look at, download and control their data.... GM's privacy policy, which the company says it will update before the end of 2019, says it may "use anonymized information or share it with third parties for any legitimate business purpose." Such as whom? "The details of those third-party relationships are confidential," said GM spokesman David Caldwell.

There are more questions. GM's privacy policy says it will comply with legal data demands. How often does it share our data with the government? GM doesn't offer a transparency report like tech companies do....

GM said "much" of their data can't be linked to a specific person, though the Post adds that "there were clues to what more GM knows on its website and app. It offers a Smart Driver score -- a measure of good driving -- based on how hard you brake and turn, and how often you drive late at night."

Meanwhile, the Post also reports that OnStar's privacy policy lets them keep the data they collect "pretty much forever... At least smartphone apps like Google Maps let you turn off and delete location history."

Car and Driver noted that the Post's reporter even found photos of his phone's contacts, concluding "Your car is collecting and transmitting a lot more data than you think." In 2017, the U.S. Government Accountability Office looked at automakers and their data privacy policies and found that the 13 car companies it looked at are not exactly using best practices. For example, while the automakers say they obtain "explicit consumer consent before collecting data," the GAO says they "offered few options besides opting out of all connected vehicle services to consumers who did not want to share their data."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

How Much Are Cars Spying On Their Owners?

Comments Filter:
  • by ron_ivi ( 607351 ) <sdotno.cheapcomplexdevices@com> on Saturday December 21, 2019 @07:41PM (#59546006)
    • Imagine the insider trading potential of listening to salespeople and execs driving back from an important sales call.
    • Imagine the crime-fighting possibilities of listening to the gangs doing drive-by shootings.
    • Imagine the extortion possibilities if listening to Epstein's car.
    • Imagine how much insurance companies would pay to watch every time you commit a traffic violation that the police never know about.
    • It's almost like, imagine that the supposedly private conversations of rights-bearing citizens are subjected to Orwellian oversight... despite the fact that most of the intelligence gathering is voluntary, it's almost as if the governmental collection of information has gone too far.

    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      Re "Imagine the crime-fighting possibilities of listening to the gangs doing"... that tech is all over the USA.
      From exact mic triangulation in streets of the sounds of a crime in real time, FBI using lots of utility poles for total street collection.
      The smart phone thats always on and secure privacy of a smart car with a live mic is just a nice extra this decade for US police and the FBI.

      The criminals keep on buying smartphones and buying new networked cars :)
      Then wonder why they have a constant inform
      • Yet somehow - despite the Orwellian police state where no one has any privacy anywhere whatsoever - despite having one of the largest gulags in the history of the world - it's still unsafe to walk downtown at night.

        It's almost like all this totalitarian tech isn't being used to protect the common people from crime at all. Maybe, just maybe, all this totalitarian tech was installed to facilitate... wait for it... totalitarianism.

        How many "criminals" caught by this tech committed the "crime" of political diss

        • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
          Re "it's still unsafe to walk downtown at night." ... the result of decades of inner city US politics and the use of police?
          Re "to protect the common people from crime at all" now people all over the USA can see who the criminals are :)
          Thanks to good people installing networked camera systems to do what the failed city police will not.

          Re "the "crime" of political dissent" stealing a package from a persons door is not "the "crime" of political dissent"

          Re "The tame news media obviously aren't going
    • Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex/Second Gig had episodes where Section 9 could get position locks on cars and shut them down remotely "when necessary". Of course they were the show's heroes, so they only did it in the interest of national security. Heh.

      • by ron_ivi ( 607351 )
        There have been accusations that instead of stopping down the car, the similar real-world organizations speed them up.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        Former U.S. National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counter-terrorism Richard A. Clarke said that what is known about the crash is "consistent with a car cyber attack." He was quoted as saying: "There is reason to believe that intelligence agencies for major powersâ"including the United Statesâ"know how to remotely seize control of a car. So if there were a cyber attack on [Hastings'] car â" and I'm not saying there was, I think whoever did it would probably get away with it."[69]

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      We don't need to imagine about the insurance stuff. You can already accept a "black box" that lets them monitor your driving in exchange for a lower premium.

      They don't work very well. A friend had get insurance cancelled and was charged with driving without insurance. Turns out the box's GPS position was off and they thought she was doing 60 on a 30 MPH road every day.

      The insurance company provided a letter that got her off the criminal charge in the end but it cost her a hell of a lot more than she saved.

  • How Much Are Cars Spying On Their Owners?

    Too much.

  • Surveillance, surveillance everywhere. Every move we make tracked. Who pushes and simultaneously escapes this surveillance? The 1% of the top 1% of earners. I hate to play conspiracy theorist, but maybe this finally is the "New World Order" these inbreds have wanted to push on humanity for decades. The elites are unsurveilled and powerful. We plebs are watched 24/7. Information is Power.
    • by Kjella ( 173770 )

      The only thing you're wrong about is thinking this is something new. The kings and lords have always been above "normal" law, that we've mostly brought them down to equality under the law is an improvement, not a fault. While I think the elites are now willing to throw some under the bus to save their position, it's still better than before where one's "high-born" testimony would count much more than that of an "common" testimony of average Joe. Perfect justice still won't happen until we know absolute trut

    • The Elites Must Be Really Scared Of Us...

      Number one fear : I'm guessing = they don't want anyone to come into their house while they are sleeping and take their shit/ do them harm and take their shit. Or some variation.

      People with shit worry a lot about losing said shit. Hence lobbyist. And socially acceptable bribery.

      Copyright protections, patents, trademarks, home security systems, life lock , safes. etc etc.

      It's kinda crazy. It all boils down to basic primal animal instinct, like a dog snapping at a hand reaching for it's food bowl.

      • by PolygamousRanchKid ( 1290638 ) on Saturday December 21, 2019 @09:09PM (#59546202)

        Number one fear . . .

        surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope . . .

        Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms . . .

        Nobody expects the Elite Inquisition!

    • Sometimes I wish the 1% of the 1% escaped, that the president didn't have Siri listening in suite at Mar-A-Lago, that the Secretary of State didn't have cheap Chinese IoT devices and Alexa on their home network, along with classified emails. As it happens, the rich have MORE Alexa, more Siri - smart watches on the wrist even I the bathroom.

      Even more than thr restnog us, they are targets of marketers and worse.

      And so - "Alexa, send classified documents to China".

    • by mi ( 197448 )

      The elites are unsurveilled and powerful

      Is that why Trump's every utterance's been "leaked" [thehill.com]?

      No. Everyone [nytimes.com] is tracked — and elites are in particular, because there is money and fame to be made from them.

      So shove your class warfare already, this is not an "elites vs. plebs" problem...

      • Is that why Trump's every utterance's been "leaked"?

        No, that's because everyone hates working with him and will vent to the press. Not becaue his car is spying on him.

        Although that iphone he's using to tweet all the time certainly is leaking location data and who knows what else.

        • by mi ( 197448 )

          No, that's because everyone hates working with him and will vent to the press

          You contradict yourself, first saying "No", but they justifying the "Yes"...

          Not because his car is spying on him

          Which it also does — high-end cars are "spying" on their owners more, not less.

    • by Cyberax ( 705495 )

      Who pushes and simultaneously escapes this surveillance? The 1% of the top 1% of earners.

      NYTimes was able to reconstruct president's movements from an easily obtainable data set. Nobody escapes surveillance. And it's not like 0.01% are hard to track - these kinds of people usually have servants who are easily tracked.

      Basically, privacy is dead. Get over it. Instead it makes sense to fight for transparency.

    • Surveillance, surveillance everywhere. Every move we make tracked. Who pushes and simultaneously escapes this surveillance? The 1% of the top 1% of earners. I hate to play conspiracy theorist, but maybe this finally is the "New World Order" these inbreds have wanted to push on humanity for decades. The elites are unsurveilled and powerful. We plebs are watched 24/7. Information is Power.

      This is exactly it, hear it from former national security advisor of the United states:

      Zbigniew Brzezinski

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

  • by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Saturday December 21, 2019 @08:00PM (#59546048)
    Opting out entirely (if it's still possible) doesn't sound half bad, actually.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Relax. This information will only be used for " any legitimate business purpose".

      So calm down. Only legitimate businesses operating legitimately in the US will have legitimate reasons to collect and sell/use the millions of data points you create for them annually.

      It's only illegitimate foreign bastards that we have to fear. Places like China and Cuba and Somewherestan and Tasmania have to be blocked. They are evil and illegitimate.

      We cannot allow a legitimacy gap!

    • >"Opting out entirely (if it's still possible) doesn't sound half bad, actually."

      1) I doubt any manufacturer would or will allow this.
      2) Opting out wouldn't mean the data wasn't collected and sent, and they just claim to not store it or act on it.
      3) How can you believe they will do what they claim?
      4) What happens when a court orders them to do something or they get hacked?

      The only true privacy is to not have such data collected/stored in the first place.

      • I agree. But as of right now, you CAN opt out of intrusive shit like GM On*Star -- the car won't stop working if you fail to pay and remove the SIM.
        • Please tell me how to do this. I have looked for hours trying to figure out how to remove the SIM. Mine is soldered to the board to the best of my knowledge. I can remove the cellular modem however in mine, but I loose the compass and some other base features which I like.

    • Opting out entirely (if it's still possible) doesn't sound half bad, actually.

      I expect that if you opt out, the car will only go in "Limp mode", if at all. It will only be for "your own safety and peace of mind". If that is not the case already, wait for a future update.

      • Present systems allow you to opt out of things like OnStar. You just lose the safety benefits (fine with me, since I'm not a palavering coward).
        • Actually this is false (not the coward part). I have 100% opted out of OnStar, I get monthly updates from my vehicle about several systems in the vehicle. The dealer put in my email address since I negotiated the price online. OnStar got it some how and I have called them 5 times in the last 2 years, telling them I want every piece of data they have collected destroyed, and to stop collecting data and I still get the monthly reports. I am about to pull the cellular modem out of the car as that is the on

  • Dont buy a spy car. Lots of ways to "buy" a not networked car...
    The only networking then is when the service work is done.
    Need a smartphone? Bring a smartphone with you. GPS? Buy an extra GPS device that has a great deal on map support.
    Learn to read a map.

    Reduce the amount of "based on how hard you brake and turn, and how often you drive late at night" data that can be collected by "asking" what new and used cars "collect".
    Buy as needed.
    Tell the world about what privacy respecting brand you fo
    • Dont buy a spy car. Lots of ways to "buy" a not networked car...

      Please share them.

      • by ron_ivi ( 607351 )

        Safest is to buy an antique built in the 1960's or maybe 1970's.

        Cars with carburetors - before they had fuel injectors - are unlikely to have computers at all.

        Once you have a fuel injector, though, it's likely that it's logging your speed/fuel-consumption/accelerator-pedal-position/etc.

        • My car built in '57 doesn't have a single semiconductor device, or perhaps, it might have a single diode.

          • by dryeo ( 100693 )

            Generator or alternator?

            • Generator, of course, with an electro-mechanical regulator.

              The diode, if it exists, is in the fuel pump. Originally, the fuel pumps used a capacitor to suppress contact arcing, but later units use a quench diode.

        • Once you have a fuel injector, though, it's likely that it's logging your speed/fuel-consumption/accelerator-pedal-position/etc.

          Mechanical fuel injection is a thing:
          https://www.roadandtrack.com/c... [roadandtrack.com]

        • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Saturday December 21, 2019 @10:09PM (#59546344) Homepage Journal

          Once you have a fuel injector, though, it's likely that it's logging your speed/fuel-consumption/accelerator-pedal-position/etc.

          Most pre-OBD-II cars didn't store logging data. They did have keepalive memory and build a LUT but that was it. Also, the earliest fuel injected vehicles had mechanical fuel injection, even gassers. They didn't even have computers. This was especially true of diesels, though. Up through 1991, Mercedes diesels used fully mechanical Bosch M or MW fuel injection, with no computers at all. Same for Dodge diesel pickups through 1998 (pre-1994 VP44, 1994-1998 Bosch P7100), Ford diesel pickups until 1994.5 (Stanadyne DB-2), and GM trucks through 1993 (Also DB-2). (1994-2001 6.5 liter diesels had throttle by wire, Stanadyne DS-4.)

          However, all 1996+ vehicles (and a small handful of earlier ones from 1994 or so) had OBD-II systems which have "freeze frame" data storage, which would keep a minute of logging data around any fault; from 30 seconds before to 30 seconds after the most serious code was set. And some of them will store multiple freeze frame data sets.

          • by Aighearach ( 97333 ) on Sunday December 22, 2019 @03:42AM (#59546774)

            My 2001 has computer throttle and traction control, but the only storage is error codes. If you want "freeze frame" you have to record the data off the bus yourself. It provides lots of data if you plug something in that reads it. But not storage.

            • My 2001 has computer throttle and traction control, but the only storage is error codes. If you want "freeze frame" you have to record the data off the bus yourself. It provides lots of data if you plug something in that reads it. But not storage.

              What is it?

              • Nissan. But most cars are the same way.

                The extra freeze frame data is available when using the manufacturer diagnostics computer, the memory is in that part.

                That's true from when they first added the OBD-II (early 90s in most cases) all the way up until spyware, which is only in the last 5 or 10 years for most.

                • The extra freeze frame data is available when using the manufacturer diagnostics computer, the memory is in that part.
                  That's true from when they first added the OBD-II (early 90s in most cases) all the way up until spyware, which is only in the last 5 or 10 years for most.

                  It's not true at all in my experience. My el cheapo harbor freight scanner will retrieve freeze frame data from every vehicle I've tried it on so far. My understanding (based on dim recollection from when I took a class to prepare for the ASE A-6) is that it's actually a mandatory part of the OBD-II spec. I was even able to view the freeze frame data on our Sprinter, even though I wasn't able to pull all the codes. (In the T1N sprinter, a boost leak will cause limp mode and set a code, but won't illuminate

                  • The freeze frame that is a required part of the OBD-II standard is not the minute window of data described above, it is a single frame; all the sensor data at the moment the fault was detected.

      • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
        Think back to when smart was not a part of any car.
        Think of the years that networked "smart" was an optional extra that very few would pay for.
        Think of the next few years when smart was a "free" part of every car sold.
        The smart networking was not a part of every car going back decades.
        Going back years recall the costs and sales of phone home tech in cars.....
        The tech was once an upgrade... different brands trying different networks and systems..
        Shop around for the last of that new generation that did
  • by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ) on Saturday December 21, 2019 @08:13PM (#59546086) Journal
    ..and connect the cable to a 50 ohm dummy load. Problem solved.
    • ..and connect the cable to a 50 ohm dummy load. Problem solved.

      Where is the antenna?

      It's not obvious on many modern cars where the antenna is.

      • Buy, borrow, or steal a signal meter: easy enough to find the antenna.
      • You dig around in the dash until you find where the coax connects into the internet-connecting thing (cellular modem, for example).

        My truck came with OnStar. Not even a week into owning it, they started calling ME trying to sell me more services. Half an hour under the dash, found the cellular modem antenna coax and disconnected it. I didn't even bother with the dummy load, figuring that the cellular modem would be smart enough to detect a high VSWR condition and stop transmitting (and if it wasn't that sma

      • You can usually get the schematics (and repair guide) for your car, often they are even available at the library.
      • True, you'd have to do some digging around for it, maybe some research on the internet. Not like you could ask the dealership where it is, they'd laugh at you. But it wouldnt' be buried under any metal, it'd have to be out somewhere.

        Of course the Average Person won't even bother or even think it's necessary or even 'smart' to do this, they want all the ridiculous bells-and-whistles that cars come with.
        • Not like you could ask the dealership where it is, they'd laugh at you.

          Dealership? What's that (Tesla owner here).

          But it wouldnt' be buried under any metal, it'd have to be out somewhere.

          I have read reports that it is in one of the door mirrors.

          • I'd be fairly easy to trace because it has to be a coaxial cable, and it'd almost certainly have to have it's own RF connector, at least on the electronics end of the cable.
    • 1. User disconnects antenna, and replaces it with a 50 ohm load....

      2. Car won't start. Driver display posts "Internet connection failure, tow to nearest dealer for service.

      3. Owner glossed over the sales contract which stated the car must be able to make a continuous connection to the Internet in order to be used.

      4. Owner reconnects antenna, and car starts. Owner curses under their breath and gets with the program.

      • There are plenty of parts of the US with spotty to non-existent smell-phone coverage, so this wouldn't work. Yet. Fortunately.
        • Better yet ... hook it up to a device that spoofs an overloaded cell network, so it sees a connection, but can't seem to get any data throughput.
          • by hwstar ( 35834 )

            Thant won't work if an encrypted connection to the mothership is what authorizes the car to start.

            This was by the way a sarcastic post.

            • Sarcastic, but enraging, since this kind of shit is an eventual possibility.
              • eventual possibility.

                For many people with car loans this has been the reality for years already.

                • by flink ( 18449 )

                  I thought those devices were just remote kill switches. As far as I know they don't require a connection to start unless the kill switch has been engaged.

            • If we find ourselves in such a deep dystopian future like that, then your car will be the least of your problems, in fact you probably won't be allowed to own your own car at that point, only the 'ruling class' will be allowed, and us plebians will be herded into cattle trucks for our assigned work details, then herded back to be put in our kennels. For the moment it's only really over-reaching, nosy corporations who are attempting to poke around in our lives to collect data on us that they shouldn't rightf
        • >"There are plenty of parts of the US with spotty to non-existent smell-phone coverage, so this wouldn't work. Yet. Fortunately."

          All the car has to do is store the data and then send it all once it DOES have a connection. Storage is cheap. A connection will happen at some point, even if it is just at a dealer for service. Other models might also degrade or shut off important services if they never get a connection. This is why those who think they can just cut the antenna might be in for a surprise.

          W

      • 3. Owner glossed over the sales contract which stated the car must be able to make a continuous connection to the Internet in order to be used.

        Not likely. I own one of the most "connected" cars (Tesla) and it doesn't require an Internet connection to start.

        • I own one of the most "connected" cars (Tesla) and it doesn't require an Internet connection to start.

          Until some future software "upgrade".

      • Caveat Emptor. What kind of asshat would agree to such terms?

      • So you're imagining a world where Microsoft gets in the auto manufacturing business? Fuck them, I'll buy a Linux car every time. xD
    • by Kjella ( 173770 )

      ..and connect the cable to a 50 ohm dummy load. Problem solved.

      You're assuming it'll default to "if I can't get any updates, I'll keep going" but I suspect it'll be more like "if I can't get any updates I'll nag and restrict your driving until you relent". It's not hard to create a device that'll function until it loses contact with the mother ship. You'd be surprised to know how much really works that way.

      • Yeah and I guess one can spin all sorts of super-dystopian yarns intended to frighten the reader and put them into panic mode, and I'm sure it's really amusing to the 'author' when that works, so knock it off, I don't think any car manufacturer is so stupid as to make a car that suddenly stops working correctly just because you live in the middle of nowhere with no wireless connectivity.
  • by vix86 ( 592763 ) on Saturday December 21, 2019 @08:16PM (#59546108)

    On a recent drive, a 2017 Chevrolet collected my precise location. It stored my phone's ID and the people I called.

    The collecting has been going on since at least 2013 I think. My father owns a Nissan truck that I sometimes drive and I have my phone paired to the bluetooth. I received a call from the local Nissan dealer once over something. The truck paperwork is all registered with my father, he would have never given them my cell number, and yet, I received a phone call from the dealer over a checkup or something. The only thing I could come up with is they pulled the number off the stored data with the bluetooth (the truck has no internet). So ya, dealers have been scrapping data from vehicles for years now.

  • First they came for the traffic violations, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a traffic violator.

    Then they came for the pedophiles, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a pedophile.

    Then they came for the sales people, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a sales person.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

    • Then they came for the sales people, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a sales person.

      Well actually, I would probably help go after the sales guys.

  • It's clear these companies don't give a solitary shit about our privacy. I surely never have and likely never would opt in to share my data. I don't care if the data is "anonymized." Anonymization is bullshit. You can generally identify a person even with a couple generic details like first name and ballpark age. With details like GPS coordinates and make/model it would be rudimentary to identify who was driving or who owns the vehicle. It's "my" data. I *might* be willing to sell it, but absolutely
  • New cars are spying on people like crazy. My car isn't spying on shit. The only "computers" in the car are the glow plug timer and the EGR controller, and whatever stereo I happen to have installed (which is currently none, but I'll put some other dumb POS in there eventually. All I need is a line in.)

  • I would love for them to try and track my flip phone. Since I don't connect it to anything other than for charging, and it isn't a "smart" phone, they'll be shit out of luck.

    Then again, I have no intention of buying any car for as long as I can. My nine year old stick shift isn't crippled with spyware or other shitty software, has real buttons I can operate by touch, and no obnoxious screens to get in the way of operation. Just the way I like it.

    • You're making me nostalgic for my old 1968 Pontiac Catalina. I never should have gotten rid of that beauty of a beast.
    • Umm, the cell phone company has a pretty good idea exactly where you are based on the towers your flip phone connects to. Your car either doesn't have plates or you are getting stopped for no plates. Either way plate readers are everywhere so the DMV also has a pretty good record of where your car has been. Toll roads add to that mix nicely, they all have plate readers. The car/phone ship has sailed.
      Next up is facial recognition to track people directly. I hear there are some makeup techniques to fool it
  • I've been thinking about this very issue for over 10 years now. I've been in tech for 30+ years but the tech introduced in cars is just too much in my opinion. So I figured my next purchase would be a restored late 60's Pontiac or something. But wait! ... My wife carries that damn smart phone everywhere she goes, so I would just be introducing the same tech crap in the car as if I had bought a new model. You simply ... can't ... win.
    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      Lots of really nice experts that will make an old car great again.
      Using the same old tech.
      Using any new tech thats better.
      Keep the looks. The sound. Be able to start in the cold, hot every time :)
      Just ask for no phone home tech and its good.
      Works until the state govs pass more "green" laws and only allow classic cars on private land/private race tracks.
      • What if said classic cars were restored with modern LiIon batteries and an electric powertrain? There's no technical requirement for an electric car to "phone home."
        • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
          Yes, lots of ways to enjoy a classic.
          The old internal combustion engine, a new internal combustion engine, a design with batteries.
          Past few years has seen a lot of really good classic work done with really good batteries.
  • by FudRucker ( 866063 ) on Saturday December 21, 2019 @11:05PM (#59546384)
    i should make a tinfoil hat for it so it cant send data anywhere, if that is the internet & cellular antenna
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I'm surprised the boffins haven't come up with a phrase to described the ensemble of failed connected rubbish over the past decade. Vehicles have always been independently operated and should not change with self-driving or EV technology.

    What happens when the connected autonomous vehicle gets a virus or gets hit with the latest ransomware? They get grounded or bricked (totalled by insurance) while the self-contained, fully autonomous vehicles maintain operational reliability similar to traditional vehicl
  • I care if my cars defraud me.

  • My last rental car openly acknowledged it was calling home will all kinds of inappropriate 'performance' data, and in fact forced me to read the message and hit OK in order to use the other dashboard controls. It might not have been obvious what it meant to someone a little less tech savvy but it was certainly not trying to hide what was happening. No option to turn it off, of course.

    That's on top of the GPS system that also could not be turned off. It was hard enough just to disable the display (all you

  • One attribute of technology is that it is almost always very fragile. The ability to permanently disable a car's ability to store, let alone phone home data is ludicrously simple. It's too bad that Ford is spending its money on internet connections, rather than preventing windshield leaks. But, whatever.
  • by Tony Isaac ( 1301187 ) on Sunday December 22, 2019 @09:37AM (#59547174) Homepage

    You are being spied on all the time. By your Web browser, your computer, your cell phone, your "smart" devices, your neighbors' doorbell cameras, business surveillance cameras, traffic cameras, your cell phone provider, your internet provider, every store you walk into, every web site you visit. You are swimming in a sea of "spying." Want to escape? You'd better move to northern Canada and go off the grid.

    What do all these spies want with you? No, _you_ really aren't that important. They just want to sell you stuff. They want to know your habits and characteristics not because they really care about them, but these become parts of your "tag cloud" that they use to target advertising to show you, in hopes that you will buy something. Even malware these days has this as its primary objective.

    Your best bet? Take your grandma's advice. Be frugal. Make decisions based on good advice. Don't be impulsive. Ignore the tracking, you can't escape even if you try.

    • What do all these spies want with you? No, _you_ really aren't that important. They just want to sell you stuff.

      Or deny you stuff. It's easy to wave off all this spying if you're healthy and normal, but if you're sick or a "statistical anomaly", your life can be made a living hell in a hurry and the moral majority won't give a toss.

  • Just sever the antenna circuit for OnStar and problem solved. You can disable it in the usual ways or the car won't work.
    • On my truck, you can remove the daughter card (the cellular modem), and only the OnStar quits working. That and the compass the dash.

  • Scoring someone on not being a safe driver for driving a lot at night?
    Who would possibly be interested in knowing if you drive a lot late at night?
    This has insurance written all over it, and it will cost you a lot.

"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." -- Vince Lombardi, football coach

Working...