Cities Struggle To Boost Ridership With 'Uber for Transit' Schemes (wired.com) 35
Helsinki, Los Angeles, Shanghai, Singapore, and other metros have been experimenting with on-demand buses -- and not seeing a lot of success. From a report: Since September, commuters using Shanghai's Number 9 bus route have had a new way of catching a ride. Rather than stand at a designated stop, they open a smartphone app and book a ride to wherever they're going. The service, provided by Alibaba, takes those reservations into account and calculates where the bus should go, using the company's artificial intelligence to customize the route. The idea is to boost ridership -- and curb traffic --by making public transit more convenient. Shanghai is just the latest city to give this sort of scheme a try. From Helsinki, Finland, to Sydney, cities around the world have spent the past few years trying to implement AI-fueled, on-demand bus services. Few have succeeded. Earlier this year, Singapore decided against renewing a pilot for on-demand buses. In Germany, microtransit company CleverShuttle -- which bills itself as more of a ride-pooling service than a bus -- pulled out of three of the eight cities it was operating in, citing economic and bureaucratic hurdles.
In a pilot project with shared rides company Via, bringing underserved residents to public transit nodes, Los Angeles Metro is spending $14.50 per trip -- twice what it spends on a regular bus trip. On-demand buses have been a thing for decades. Public transit agencies often call them demand-responsive buses, and deploy them to serve users who lack easy access to standard routes because they live especially far away, or may have special needs. Because they reach relatively few people, they're expensive to operate. They're inefficient too, often making riders wait undetermined amounts of time for a ride. So cities must strike a balance between making public transit accessible to the largest number of residents, and meeting their budget goals.
In a pilot project with shared rides company Via, bringing underserved residents to public transit nodes, Los Angeles Metro is spending $14.50 per trip -- twice what it spends on a regular bus trip. On-demand buses have been a thing for decades. Public transit agencies often call them demand-responsive buses, and deploy them to serve users who lack easy access to standard routes because they live especially far away, or may have special needs. Because they reach relatively few people, they're expensive to operate. They're inefficient too, often making riders wait undetermined amounts of time for a ride. So cities must strike a balance between making public transit accessible to the largest number of residents, and meeting their budget goals.
Small wonder (Score:3)
I live in a city in Europe where such a bus is even free to use and still nobody uses it.
Re: Small wonder (Score:1)
The challenge is to come up with solutions that offer you ALL a car does: Security, stuff storage, some privacy, etc. Buses also combine the worst cocktail of people who should not be together: vulnerable kids, seniors, mentally disabled adults, felons, alcoholics and hobos.
Too soon (Score:4, Interesting)
Having easy, cheap shuttle service for the last mile would make public transport much more appealing, but I would think that labor costs on these types of services are what's killing them. At some point we should have true self driving vehicles, and I imagine these types of shuttles will take off. Not sure if it will be 5 years or more, but I see it happening in the next decade for sure.
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You are absolutely correct. The cost of the driver is always more expensive than the cost of the bus, fuel, tires, and maintenance combined. Eventually, if autonomous vehicles ever get good enough, we'll see a massive laying off of transit drivers, but given liability and union pressures, I (not yet 40 years old) am *hoping* to see the beginning of general adoption some point before I retire. Hoping, but not expecting.
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Literally every study shows car share vs transit (Score:4, Informative)
Look, the cold hard fact is that car share services increase congestion and make transit less usable.
Subsidizing your enemy is always a bad choice.
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...car share services increase congestion and make transit less usable.
I don't know about "less usable." They certainly make traditional mass transit less appealing by providing better (faster, more convenient, and/or cheaper) options.
If I were a city and wanted to reduce congestion, I'd do something like subsidize Uber Pool. I wouldn't try to directly compete because it's not at all likely I'll come up with a better implementation than Uber or Lyft have. And as a city manager, my goal is to enable people to get from point A to point B as cheaply and quickly as possible, not n
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Nope, that just makes commuting for everyone worse.
Facts don't care about your greed.
Well DUH (Score:3)
It's obvious on its face that while buses have capacity there's not enough capacity of buses to properly serve everyone using an appy-app-app. Hurr Durr - we'll make an app like Uber and everyone will take the bus and save the world.
Uber et al; only works because there's enough people driving around that I can book a ride and get a car within 15 minutes. Public transportation is going to have far less buses on the road that I can't even fathom why they thought an on-demand service would work except that they followed the old adage of:
Step 1: Make bus app
Step 2: ???
Step 3: profit
If anything governments are better off giving poor citizens uber or lyft credits to get rides to stores, jobs, etc and removing buses altogether in non-metro areas. Yeah - there's the pollution issue but switch to electric cars and all that's left is traffic congestion.
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Step 1: Make bus app
Step 2: ???
Step 3: profit
Step 1: Make bus app
Step 2.1: Con some investors with extreme chutzpah
Step 2.2: Golden parachute out before the impending doom
Step 3: Bankruptcy for the investors; Yacht in Tahiti for you
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"We'll be sitting on a beach earning 20%" - Hans Gruber
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"We'll be sitting on a beach earning 20%" - Hans Gruber
Wish Slash-dot had upvoting
Not with your quality of service and city design. (Score:3)
We had that for a long time here in Germany, for the least used stops. Anruf-Sammel-Taxi. You call, a small bus or shared taxi comes at a sheduled time.
Over here, public transport works, because out quuality of service is generally good, and the cities are dense. Let's check this list:
Does a vehicle come every<15 minutes? (Check)
But:
Are the stops less than 1500 feet from each other and every location in the *entire* city? (Less than 250 feet in dense areas.) (Maybe check?)
Is every vehicle cleaned regularly?
Are vandals or nusances caught, and booted off or fined right away? (E.g. by the driver.)
Are the seats comfy?
Is the ride faster than taking the car plus parking?
Is the price worth it, comparatively?
And most importantly: Are the shops and infrastructure actually suited for it?? E.g. are paths to shops, your job and your home so close and convenient, that you can can comfortably walk there on foot? And shop multiple times a week, and get a bag or backpack small enough to carry home?
If any of those is missing... No dice!
And given that US cities are much more sparse, and sadly not designed for walking... I'm sorry, but unless cou can magically make everything denser, like a city designed for humans instead of cars, this won't happen.
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Some sort of quality bus stop shelter.
Note the bus stop shelter with a seat and roof... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
With a seat, light, protection from the sun, rain and tactile paving https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Put the money into an app that tells people when the next bus is arriving so they can use their smartphone to track an existing bus service...
Dont add, change the service much as real people who actually use the service like a set routine for the bus service... ie
Re: Not with your quality of service and city desi (Score:2)
Nah, you donâ(TM)t need that much. If the service is regular enough and you have an app to help, you donâ(TM)t need a shelter. I have a small umbrella and use Citymapper, and I rarely wait more than 5 mins. Actually, I canâ(TM)t stand waiting and if the bus is more than a few minutes away, Iâ(TM)ll start walking along the bus route and catch it later.
Delete Buses for Discounted Group Carshares (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm sorry, but when I had to ride the bus to work I loathed every minute of it. The experience of riding a bus unequivocally sucks regardless of it it was in New York, Cambridge, or Berlin.
What would be truly innovative is if public transit groups instead deleted buses and instead offered subsidized on-demand group car pooling for private citizens.
If there are less drivers and more demand, the commission to drivers goes way up to encourage more people to drive their cars. If there are a lot of drivers, it goes down. Doubly so, fares can be charged on a per mile basis as opposed to the silly flat rates that are done today.
Throw in a rating system and now we have a system that encourages people to at least be presentable and act accordingly.
The technology is there and it is absolutely possible to have happen. We will never see this improvement sadly because drivers' and mechanics unions would balk because it means that they all lose their jobs to a far better and more convenient system.
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No doubt.
People who advocate for mass transit have to realize the only saving grace of busses and subways is they're cheap. They're also (generally) slow and inconvenient, especially if I have to wait a long time for a bus to arrive, if I have to walk a long ways to a bus stop or subway station, and if the vehicle makes a ton of stops along the way. Whistling up a ride share which picks me up right now from where I am and drops me off exactly where I want to be is ridiculously convenient in comparison.
As a
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Spoken as an American who has never seen good public transit.
When I worked n Europe for a few months I took a train and a bus to get to work. The system was amazingly efficient and convenient, never felt the need for a car. Always on time, never had to wait too long. Of course the system was heavily subsidized (just like the roads in America, but funny that I never hear them complain about that), but that is how you run a transit system that works to move people, and that people actually WANT to use.
But I'm
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Spoken as an American who has never seen good public transit.
When I worked n Europe for a few months I took a train and a bus to get to work. The system was amazingly efficient and convenient, never felt the need for a car.
But I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen in America. One proposal, and you will be drowned out by the screams of "But it's socialism!".
Are you two done with your strawmen yet?
Yes, the US has some bad PT systems, but they also have good ones as well. SoWhile our betters in Europe have everything working to perfection, US North America is simply not Europe.Wer'e a whole lot larger, and piling everyone into cities so it isn't easy to have personal transportation is going to be a hard sell.
Of course the system was heavily subsidized (just like the roads in America, but funny that I never hear them complain about that),
Interesting tidbit. E
Re: Delete Buses for Discounted Group Carshares (Score:2)
If you could walk home in 15 mins, why would you take a bus? Whatâ(TM)s your typo?
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If you could walk home in 15 mins, why would you take a bus? Whatâ(TM)s your typo?
It gets cold and rainy at times. We get ice storms ans sometimes snow. No one wants to walk up and down the local hills during an ice storm - that's pretty dangerous. If it took a half hour to get home, that would be an acceptable compromise. two hours? I'll drive.
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It gets cold and rainy at times. We get ice storms ans sometimes snow. No one wants to walk up and down the local hills during an ice storm - that's pretty dangerous. If it took a half hour to get home, that would be an acceptable compromise. two hours? I'll drive.
Odd. I loved walking during storms the best. I moved faster than traffic during a bad storm! Then, where I lived we had snow on the ground for all of winter.
I don't mind being out in the cold. But in recent years, our ice storms can turn the sidewalks into impromptu skating rinks. As well, our hills are part of the Ridge and valley region of the Appalachian mountains. Fairly serious stuff. A nice walk three seasons of the year, but winter can be a bit hazardous.
Re: Delete Buses for Discounted Group Carshares (Score:2)
Our betters?!
Ha! I'm sorry but you two have clearly not worked or lived in Europe for any extended period of time. A few months is a study abroad / workcation.
I lived in Europe for 6 years, specifically Cambridge, London, Paris, Amsterdam, and Berlin. I'm sorry to say but Europe is far from the socialist utopia you've both been lead to believe.
For starters, once any European has means they avoid public transit and above all healthcare like the plague. Working in any major office, new hires immediately jumpe
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Our betters?!
Ha! I'm sorry but you two have clearly not worked or lived in Europe for any extended period of time. A few months is a study abroad / workcation.
I lived in Europe for 6 years, specifically Cambridge, London, Paris, Amsterdam, and Berlin. I'm sorry to say but Europe is far from the socialist utopia you've both been lead to believe.
You must not be familiar with me. I was being very sarcastic. It is difficult to post anything her on any subject where someone won't come in and extoll the superiority of Europe and Europeans.
To me, it's like people that hate their children. So I like to needle them once in a while.
Re: Delete Buses for Discounted Group Carshares (Score:2)
My bad mate! You need those /sarcasm tags :P
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Not even cheap (Score:2)
> The only saving grace of busses and subways is they're cheap
With some exceptions, they aren't even cheap. They do get paid for by people who don't use them, so the people using them don't pay much.
Even the New York subway, which is plenty busy enough that it COULD operate efficiently, not having empty trains, gets most of its funding through various taxes, not from fares. Each ride is mostly paid for not by the person riding, but by people who don't use the subway regularly.
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> The only saving grace of busses and subways is they're cheap
With some exceptions, they aren't even cheap. They do get paid for by people who don't use them, so the people using them don't pay much.
Even the New York subway, which is plenty busy enough that it COULD operate efficiently, not having empty trains, gets most of its funding through various taxes, not from fares. Each ride is mostly paid for not by the person riding, but by people who don't use the subway regularly.
What is needed is to get those socialist asshole out of the system, and have everyone drive their personal paid for vehicles. Problem solved! A win for the taxpayers, as more cars will be sold, and people can drive right up to their workplace.
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No doubt.
People who advocate for mass transit have to realize the only saving grace of busses and subways is they're cheap.
I loathe using buses. But there is a reason for Public transport that you missed.If Everyone drove a car into cities, or those that lived there had to provide their own car - it would be mayhem. Parking and traffic being the main problem.
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I loathe using buses. But there is a reason for Public transport that you missed.If Everyone drove a car into cities, or those that lived there had to provide their own car - it would be mayhem. Parking and traffic being the main problem.
Good point. I was thinking about this. I don't like driving in Manhattan for just those reasons (congestion and parking), and the subway on the island makes it reasonable to get around. But I don't live there, I'm only a tourist.
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It's sucked in the US when I've ridden it, except for San Francisco. It was ok there. I was only in the city, though.
It was good in Taiwan. Even in suburbs, it was ok. I relied on friends with cars/scooters or cabs in the country. I'd have hated to drive in that traffic. Worse than anything I've seen in the US.
More money for on-demand cars? (Score:2)
Los Angeles Metro is spending $14.50 per trip -- twice what it spends on a regular bus trip
It was bad enough VCs were flushing money down the drain. Now we're going to flush tax dollars down the drain, too!