How China Is Hunting Down Coronavirus Critics (vice.com) 207
"As China ramps up efforts to control the narrative around the coronavirus outbreak, it is also expanding its efforts to leverage online platforms to track down people who dare to speak out," reports Vice. "From tracking down Twitter users using their mobile numbers to hacking WeChat accounts to find out someone's location, Beijing is eager to stop any negative news from being shared online -- and is will to use intimidation, arrests and threats of legal action." From the report: Joshua Left, a 28-year-old entrepreneur who runs a self-driving car startup in Wuhan, China, arrived in San Francisco in mid-January for a vacation, just as the first reports of a new "SARS-like" virus outbreak in China reached the U.S. He almost immediately began worrying about his family back in his hometown of Wuhan, where the disease appeared to originate, and where panic was starting to set in. Concerned that his family might not be getting information on the scale of the burgeoning epidemic, he posted messages on his WeChat account sharing information he was afraid were not available inside China. "But then things started to get weird," he told VICE News.
Left, who asked not to be identified by his full Chinese name, said he first received a warning message from WeChat administrators. Then he began receiving strangely specific messages that appeared to come from four of his friends on WeChat, all asking him for his location, what hotel he was staying at in San Francisco, what his room number was, and what his U.S. phone number was. Then his cell phone received a warning message that someone in Shanghai was trying to log into his account. Finally, when he wouldn't tell them where he was staying, the same accounts all simultaneously began urging him to return to China as soon as possible. Left told VICE News the he believes his friends only sent the messages after they were coerced by agents from the Ministry of State Security in an attempt to get him to reveal his location, and part of a much wider effort by the Chinese government to crack down on any dissenting voices who are sharing content related to the coronavirus outbreak. The report also mentions a separate incident where agents from the Ministry of State Security detained and interrogated a Chinese resident for criticizing the Chinese government's delayed response to the coronavirus outbreak on Twitter. After the resident refused to meet with the Ministry over the phone, the agents showed up at his front door with a screenshot of his tweet that they say "attacks the Communist Party of China."
The resident was forced to sign a "promise note" saying he would not repeat the "threat" he had made.
Left, who asked not to be identified by his full Chinese name, said he first received a warning message from WeChat administrators. Then he began receiving strangely specific messages that appeared to come from four of his friends on WeChat, all asking him for his location, what hotel he was staying at in San Francisco, what his room number was, and what his U.S. phone number was. Then his cell phone received a warning message that someone in Shanghai was trying to log into his account. Finally, when he wouldn't tell them where he was staying, the same accounts all simultaneously began urging him to return to China as soon as possible. Left told VICE News the he believes his friends only sent the messages after they were coerced by agents from the Ministry of State Security in an attempt to get him to reveal his location, and part of a much wider effort by the Chinese government to crack down on any dissenting voices who are sharing content related to the coronavirus outbreak. The report also mentions a separate incident where agents from the Ministry of State Security detained and interrogated a Chinese resident for criticizing the Chinese government's delayed response to the coronavirus outbreak on Twitter. After the resident refused to meet with the Ministry over the phone, the agents showed up at his front door with a screenshot of his tweet that they say "attacks the Communist Party of China."
The resident was forced to sign a "promise note" saying he would not repeat the "threat" he had made.
Now Will apple help in this if asked? (Score:2)
Now Will apple help in this if asked?
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Don't forget Hollywood, who doesn't even need to put "I am a foreign dictatorship's agent" disclaimers on its modified product. Yet.
So you hate the West (Score:4)
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Can you clarify your point, please? I've failed to parse it. It seems that you're saying that suppression of personal expression is subject to governmental interference in countries with dictators -- as opposed to what? Leaving that suppression of personal expression to the private sector?
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Makes perfect sense to me (Score:5, Insightful)
How did Big China become so powerful? Simple...an authoritarian state took control of its people and engineered it into the production powerhouse we see today. China took a billion people and commanded them to work hard for little pay, accept the challenges of life, and appreciate what little they have, because if they don't, China can take it all away.
But Big China has to control those billion people, because a billion people can turn on China with the snap of a finger. It was only 70 years ago when the people last revolted, and they can do it again. (And there's that pesky neighbor to the east with the remaining revolutionaries just waiting for their chance to strike!) So China has to keep the people in order, as well as keep the cash flowing.
Now tens of thousands are sick, thousands are dying, and the world economy is suffering, because everything is made in China. Which means the cash slows down. And when the people stop getting a paycheck and hear rumors about a new plague in town, they may not exactly think straight. All it takes is a small spark to ignite that wildfire.
So of course Big China's gotta keep the plebs in line before things spiral out of control. What did you expect would happen?
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How did Big China become so powerful?
Through history, China has always been big and powerful.
The period from the Opium Wars to 1979 was an anomaly. China is back.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipping_container
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Pallets are another reason as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
someone is missing the point (Score:2, Interesting)
If the Chinese government spent as much effort in finding a cure as they did hunting down their critics, this problem would already have been solved.
Re:someone is missing the point (Score:5, Insightful)
If the Chinese government spent as much effort in finding a cure as they did hunting down their critics, this problem would already have been solved.
Unlikely, since the two activities require very different skill sets. The "wu mao" censors wouldn't be much help in a lab.
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Then perhaps they should have devoted more resources to training biochemists than stukachi or political officers.
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The "wu mao" censors wouldn't be much help in a lab.
True... but their paychecks sure would help that lab. Isn't the modern economy fun? Where you spend your money shows what you value.
Re:someone is missing the point (Score:4, Interesting)
Killing all infected individuals also would result in far more deaths than just letting Covid-19 run through the population.
Covid-19 only has high lethality for the elderly. On the opposite of the spectrum, no a single child has died from it. And most people who died had preexisting serious medical conditions. There are some statistics [worldometers.info]
Also, Covid-19 being a Coronavirus, it likely won't have much impact in warm places, such as Africa, since they tend to spread much more in cold weather. Wouldn't be surprised if the onset of spring in the Northern Hemisphere stops the spread of Covid-19 before we even have a vaccine.
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If the Chinese government spent as much effort in finding a cure as they did hunting down their critics, this problem would already have been solved.
An attempt of self-evident conclusion is only that.
Careerism, covering asses, conflicting priorities...failures to usefully and successfully collaborate...plague any and all governments because all governments simultaneously regulate and protect their citizenry, day by day and across generations. Blithely according blame with an argument of proportion to explain away an extraordinary crisis is, however convenient, entirely shallow and a priviledged vantage.
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China says come back (Score:2)
China is not an ally (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't understand why we continue to treat China like an ally. They are a communist country that steals our IP, wages war on American companies, and treats their own citizens like dirt. Now it seems that they failed to contain a dangerous virus that will cause thousands of deaths in other countries. China is far more dangerous than the USSR was during the Cold War. American companies need to get out of China and we need to severely reduce what we buy from them.
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You have to do something to keep China from melting down, because the likely result of failure of their system is invasion of other countries. The policy of trying to pacify them by doing business is the result of corporatists being in charge, and being able to make a profit doing so. Unfortunately the end game is going to be a stronger China when they finally do start invading their neighbors.
Re:China is not an ally (Score:4, Funny)
You have to do something to keep China from melting down, because the likely result of failure of their system is invasion of other countries. The policy of trying to pacify them by doing business is the result of corporatists being in charge, and being able to make a profit doing so. Unfortunately the end game is going to be a stronger China when they finally do start invading their neighbors.
I'm guessing you've played a lot of Risk and aren't a Cranberries fan.
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Who are they going to invade? Vietnam? They lost last time they tried it.
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They are a communist country that steals our IP, wages war on American companies, and treats their own citizens like dirt.
Ray Kroc, the businessman who franchized McDonald's was asked what he would do for a drowing competitor: If any of my competitors were drowning, I'd stick a hose in their mouth and turn on the water. It is ridiculous to call this an industry. This is not. This is rat eat rat, dog eat dog. I'll kill 'em, and I'm going to kill 'em before they kill me. You're talking about the American way - of survival of the fittest.
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Someone has trouble differentiating metaphor from the literal.
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Shut the border at least. Build it somewhere else.
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If China is a communist country then i presume North-Korea is a Democracy? :PppPPp
The rest of what you say makes sense, though.
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Keep your friends close, and your enemies clos
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Mutual dependence. American consumers demand their cheap goods, and American industry demands cheap manufacturing facilities - but America can't provide those any more, and nor can Europe. Not while maintaining high standards of environmental protection, worker's rights, and a high median wage. China can. It's been a relationship both benefitted from: China got access to advanced technology, education, and the massive capital investment it needed to modernize infrastructure. America got low-cost manufacturi
Re:China is not an ally (Score:5, Insightful)
By demanding its tourists and education access not be stopped for its people globally?
Re "see the hospitals"... A small box room with bars on the windows is not a hospital.
A large hall with beds and not staff is not a hospital...
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yep. they did a good job at containment, but a shit job at prevention.
Maybe next time don't arrest whistleblowers and don't have a 40.000 people public event one day before lockdown...
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1) they get turned away for care, and
2) they spread disease.
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Fake News! (NYC Billionaire) (Score:5, Informative)
Source: here [mediaite.com]
Coronavirus critic (Score:5, Funny)
Miserable experience, would not contract again. 0/5 stars.
Don't forget China has agents in the US (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't forget that China has thousands of agents operating in the United States and can "reach" Chinese citizens here with relative ease.
Last year, one former Chinese co-worker of mine was "picked up for lunch" by "friends" from the Chinese state, and we never saw him again. We still have his wallet, though we handed over his car keys when the bank came to repossess his vehicle. His house similarly remained untouched (we occasionally checked) until similarly the bank repossessed it and had it cleaned out.
Thi
Um, yeah (Score:2, Informative)
It's a communist dictatorship. Has been for many decades now. It's what they do. There is absolutely zero surprise in this.
In communist theory, the Party stands in for the people, it represents their supposed true interests. The people can't be allowed to freely talk and vote and make decisions and such, because when you do that the people get duped by the rich capitalist pig dog elitists.
It's how these communist countries can call themselves "the democratic republic of whatever" with a straight face; se
I'm not a communist (Score:2)
We can debate whether that is possible or not, but if we're talking the ideal as laid out by communist theory then no, China is not Communist. Again, maybe it's not possible for _any_ country to reach the Communist ideal (i.e. the theory might be fundamentally flawed due to human nature), but that has nothing to do with China.
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Re:Yeah right (Score:5, Informative)
This is real.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re:Yeah right (Score:5, Insightful)
No, that is actually what is going on, but much worse. Communism always turns out this way. ....
OMG, not this again. This issue has almost nothing to do with communism and almost everything to do with totalitarianism. Why do people deliberately try to confuse the two? It's just a cliched, thoughtless, easily used, straw man. Even President Xi called China a state based on totalitarian capitalism. The factories may be state controlled, but they are privately owned. the last time I check, that's a classic example of fascism. You'd think by 2020, we'd have gotten past this 1950's communist demonization but clearly not. China isn't really a communist state, just like we're not really a democracy, (we're a plutocracy now)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A... [wikipedia.org]
http://www.forbes.com/sites/he... [forbes.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... [youtube.com]
Re:Yeah right (Score:4, Insightful)
Communism cannot exist without totalitarianism. History has shown us that over and over and over.
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Comma he typed out on his phone and pressed send, not worried whatsoever he was about to disappear in the night.
Re: Yeah right (Score:3)
What capitalist country is totalitarian?
Re: Yeah right (Score:4, Insightful)
Philippines, Turkey, Russia to name a few. Pretty much any country that has both an economy and a monarch/despot/oligarchy/single-party running things, so the list is very long. Looking out the window, it sure seems the USA is rapidly devolving into totalitarianism as well.
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None of the countries you have listed is totalitarian.
They all are authoritarian, but it is not the same thing.
Re: Yeah right (Score:5, Informative)
Just to sum things up:
Totalitarian - relating to a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state.
Authoritarian - favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.
Communism - a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.
Capitalism - an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
Fascism - a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
Plutocracy - government by the wealthy.
The more people there are on the planet the more of these, currently somewhat different, possibilities of governing become one.
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Re: Yeah right (Score:4, Insightful)
I seriously don't know whether to respond to this as the poster is completely indoctrinated and not open to reason or maybe doesn't actually know anything about the USA. Or maybe the poster is just a troll. I can see someone making an honest and reasoned argument for "trending towards authoritarianism" or perhaps saying the current executive branch is "exhibiting fascist tendencies" but trying to call the USA totalitarian is just being ignorant or trolling. If the USA were totalitarian there would be no: Sanctuary Cities or States; Democratic Party primary race (Or second major political party really); Constant media articles pointing out the latest dumb thing the president did today; Elections held at regular intervals at all levels of government local to nationwide; Judges at many levels reversing or staying government policy changes, in many cases not because the change is unconstitutional by itself, but just because the government didn't show that they followed a reasonable process.
The USA may not be as "free" as it once was, but it is pretty far from being totalitarian.
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There really should be some sort of Herp Derp Knee Jerk award for the first person to say "USA BAD!" in every story about how China is doing something wrong.
It doesn't even matter if you're right, it's totally off topic.
Ironically, the story is about how people saying "CHINA BAD!" are being arrested.
#EatTheRich is literal Communist history (Score:5, Interesting)
Capitalism didn't starve and purge millions. Communist revolutions which always seem to lead to dictatorships that purge anyone who is the "wrong" sort of Communist always seem to manage to do this, though, causing the followers to claim that the problem was the leaders, not the fact that they had ripped apart all the structures that were keeping people fed without any plan. The Khmer Rouge killed anyone with a bourgeoisie education, blamed everything on French colonists, made whole cities evacuate into the countryside to become rice farmers, split up families because they represented unjust hierarchies and wanted to keep the children pure through re-education. This led to a bunch people forced to become starving rice farmers because they knew nothing about growing rice and they sold the damned rice they did grow to China for guns. They worked 16-20 hour days and could get shot if they ate the damned fish swimming between their legs because they were starving because that would mean they had stopped working for a moment.
You guys are all haha, #EatTheRich, but in Cambodia that was literal. They had a thing for eating human livers. Go read some stories from Cambodian survivors [cybercambodia.com], or just look at what they did [allthatsinteresting.com]. Then tell me again just how good "eat the rich" sounds.
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"Capitalism didn't starve and purge millions."
Irish potato famine. One million deaths. A major contributing factor was an unwillingness of the English parliament to provide low-cost food aid for the starving Irish, out of a concern that government purchasing of food in bulk for Ireland would undercut the farming industry and lead to a collapse in prices after the famine. Another was the continued export of food from Ireland: The country was not so much lacking in food, as lacking in food affordable to the p
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Umm, thanks for pointing out how making the markets less free can make disasters like crop failures even worse? England didn't cause the crops to fail, but that's a good point about how we shouldn't allow the government to forbid us from taking care of ourselves.
Anyone who wants to point out that people can't afford things is free to contribute to those who cannot or to set up charities to help with that. It's interesting that people are so interested in giving the governments power, but not interested in
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The 'cash crop' problem can be seen in other famines as well: India in... well, numerous times. If the starving masses can only afford to pay $1 per unit-land of food production, or that same land can be used to grow $5 worth of cotton/tobacco/opium/coffee, then the people starve. The land-owners made their rational economic decision: The wants of the wealthy are more important than the needs of the poor.
There's also the issue of externalities. An ideal market only works if all the costs of production are a
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> Capitalism didn't starve and purge millions.
Cough... Pinochet... cough
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Saying there is a difference between communism and totalitarianism is like saying there is a difference between not drinking any fluids and dying of thirst.
One ALWAYS leads to the other.
I will agree, however, that perfect communism hasn't, nor never will, exist.
Overriding socialism always leads to totalitarianism.
Re: Yeah right (Score:2)
Quick question: why are you stating that folks are deliberate instead of thinking folks are naive? "Why do people deliberately try to confuse the two?"
Personally I would naively confuse the two.
Cambodia ate the rich's livers (Score:2, Insightful)
> Yup, the 1950s called they want their communist paranoia back.
Clearly it's paranoia to want to remind you of this stuff [allthatsinteresting.com] from the 70s in one of the more recent Communist uprisings where they took #EatTheRich literally in Cambodia and ate people's livers. Granted, there wasn't much else to eat--many of those who couldn't flee starved to death.
Because true freedom comes from dismantling those greedy capitalist farms and herding city dwellers out to the farms in a desperate, but failed, attempt to keep fo
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Yeah, it is, by you and idiots like you who spout bullshit rhetoric with absolutely fuck all evidence.
Where?
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No, that is actually what is going on, but much worse. Communism always turns out this way. There are other sources you can find where China is locking down entire cities and removing sick residents by force and bringing them to death camps. There are dead people laying in the Chinese streets because they've collapsed since their socialist medicine system doesn't have the capacity to deal with it and the government is refusing to acknowledge the scope of the problem for propaganda reasons. There are pictures of large swathes of the population forced to work in factories amongst the sick to keep their economy propped up.
But yeah, it's hyped up.
Not that I doubt that the Chinese communist dictatorship is guilty of numerous atrocities, but if you make specific claims about pictures it would really help your case if you provided a link.
Re: Yeah right (Score:2)
https://mobile.twitter.com/Him... [twitter.com]
https://mobile.twitter.com/ozn... [twitter.com]
There are more, just look around.
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Again, if you make specific claims about specific images showing something it really helps if you can link those images. I've looked at the last two weeks from both twitter accounts you've linked to. I'm seeing a small part of what you claimed, mainly people being manhandled and entrances to buildings being blocked and people climbing out of buildings, having breakdowns etc. Persons in some videos are claiming (but not showing) more serious things are happening like people being cremated alive, but I can't
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Way hyped up but it is not like everyone was not expecting exactly that, with Chinese social media controls and negative points for being naughty and positive points for being good as far as the government is concerned. It is an autocracy and due to the mix of business and government quietly slipped from being communist to more fascist, swapped to the other side of centre still quite autocratic though.
Now this was over a contagious disease and obviously government wants to control the public message now h
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China is locking down entire cities and removing sick residents by force and bringing them to death camps. There are dead people laying in the Chinese streets because they've collapsed since their socialist medicine system doesn't have the capacity to deal with it and the government is refusing to acknowledge the scope of the problem for propaganda reasons.
So they have enough resources to drag living people kicking and screaming to death camps. But also don't have enough to drag dead bodies into a ditch? Conspiracy nutter much?
Re: Yeah right (Score:2)
No, you can look up these videos on Twitter and other social media. The Chinese government does indeed not have the right priorities, it rather silences people.
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You're a complete nutter.
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But yeah, it's hyped up.
says the jew hypocrite that claimed India is more hygienic than China...cuz communism & shit... [slashdot.org]
Just show us the pictures or it didn't happen.
Re: Yeah right (Score:3)
Yes a lot of Vice authors are trash but there are a handful of daring journalists among the bunch.
I would like to see you risk your life to expose the ethnic cleansing of the Uyghurs by infiltrating the province with a hidden camera. (yes a Vice journalist did it before mainstream media even picked up the story).
Re:Yeah right (Score:5, Interesting)
I have friends and relatives in China and use WeChat daily. There is definitely censorship going on. It is mostly about suppressing rumors, conspiracy theories, and "fake news" but I am sure some real information is also suppressed as collateral damage.
In America, we are used to lies and distortion from the media, and we look at most stories with a cynical eye. But Chinese are used to censorship and control. Except now, so many rumors and misinformation are swirling around that the censors can't keep up. The Chinese people don't have enough experience and perspective to know what to believe. There is some really wild information being passed around and accepted as fact.
Some rumors that I have heard:
1. It is a CPP plot to reduce the population
2. It is a CPP plot to kill old people, who are no longer productive.
3. It is a CPP plot to kill males and rebalance the gender ratio
4. It is a CIA plot to weaken China.
5. It is a Muslim plot instigated by Uyghurs.
6. The virus was leaked by a disgruntled scientist.
7. It is a plot by investors shorting the Chinese stockmarket
8. It is a plot by Hong Kong protestors
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Re:Yeah right (Score:5, Funny)
The alliance between bats and pangolins was both unexpected, and obvious.
The Yeti await the signal.
The Ten Kingdoms will rise again.
Chupacabra waits in Laos.
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The alliance between bats and pangolins was both unexpected, and obvious.
The Yeti await the signal.
The Ten Kingdoms will rise again.
Chupacabra waits in Laos.
What rough beast..
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Unless the Chupacabra has been transplanted from Mexico I doubt that, And we all know mythical beasts have a hell of a time getting passports.
Noiw if you'd said the Phaya Naga waits in Laos I'm with ya.
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"you mad bro!?"
Some of the vegans can get extremely nasty, and they and the green haired bullies that have the places where they work in a state of terror because anything could set them off "WAAAAAAAA! MY FEEEEWINGS!!!! SUE! SUE! SUE!" are often one and the same.
Bonus when they begin calling everyone that disagrees with them "NAZI! NAZI! NAZI!--(SUE! SUE! SUE!)", considering Hitler was both a vegan and an animal lover.
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Bonus when they begin calling everyone that disagrees with them "NAZI! NAZI! NAZI!--(SUE! SUE! SUE!)", considering Hitler was both a vegan and an animal lover.
It's always the same with you guys, you just to have call people Nazis right after you complain about them doing it to you.
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I don't think this is a vegan thing. It's just a people-thing. Few people are so obnoxiously smug as those who believe they have moral superiority, and vegans are just one instance of that.
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It seems like at least some of those rumors may have been instigated by the Chinese government themselves. Propaganda is a powerful weapon.
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7. It is a plot by investors shorting the Chinese stockmarket
Careful with that one - with Tesla moving into China, we'll soon have the Tesla conspiracy nuts blaming Tesla short-sellers for COVID-19.
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Re:Yeah right (Score:4, Insightful)
And that's the problem in China. People know they cannot trust the government and besides those rumors there is no alternative trustworthy news source, as all news are government controlled. Censorship is not the solution to rumors - it's the root cause of why people believe in them.
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Kung Flu
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You're mixing up socialism with Authoritarianism (Score:5, Informative)