Sonos Decides Bricking Old Stuff Isn't a Winning Move After All (arstechnica.com) 31
Sonos is reversing course on a plan to brick all trade-in devices, so if someone wants to give or sell you a used speaker, it will still work. For now. Ars Technica reports: Sonos launched its "trade up" program last October. Consumers who owned a handful of older devices would receive a 30 percent discount on newer models if they traded in their old versions -- a fairly typical program for expensive electronics, all things considered. The company drew customers' ire with one important deviation from others' trade-in programs, though. Although the company does indeed sell refurbished equipment, devices users traded in through the program were destined not to become part of that cycle. Instead, Sonos straight up bricked them.
Completing the trade-in process required putting your device in "recycle mode," which not only wipes all of the user's personal data but also permanently deactivates the product. Once a Sonos product has been deactivated, the company says, "the product cannot be re-added to any system or used to set up a new Sonos system, even if the product has been reset to its factory settings," and the decision to deactivate it is irreversible. Instead of bringing in old products and refurbishing or reselling them, Sonos tells users to bring them to an e-waste center or send it back to Sonos for component recycling. In recent days, however, Sonos quietly removed the recycle mode option from its app, replacing it with a prompt to call customer service. Additionally, the company now says it's working on posting a new trade-in flow to its website, which will remove recycle mode from the process.
Completing the trade-in process required putting your device in "recycle mode," which not only wipes all of the user's personal data but also permanently deactivates the product. Once a Sonos product has been deactivated, the company says, "the product cannot be re-added to any system or used to set up a new Sonos system, even if the product has been reset to its factory settings," and the decision to deactivate it is irreversible. Instead of bringing in old products and refurbishing or reselling them, Sonos tells users to bring them to an e-waste center or send it back to Sonos for component recycling. In recent days, however, Sonos quietly removed the recycle mode option from its app, replacing it with a prompt to call customer service. Additionally, the company now says it's working on posting a new trade-in flow to its website, which will remove recycle mode from the process.
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They really should just stop all anonymous posting on this site. Love your pearl-clutching about marijuana though. Would I be right in thinking you have a belt and wear your trousers very high?
Like, we'd be able to see where your socks stop at the top, right?
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I've already purchased two Bose systems since I heard of Sonos' spyware and brickware. Though I'm not happy with either company's requirement of being Internet connected.
That makes no sense... There is no brickware. All there is, is a hardware upgrade program - if you had one of a few old pieces of hardware (which originally they started started selling more than 10 years ago, before pretty much all of they are used for today even existed)), you could get a 30% discount on a hardware purchase. They didn't brick your speakers unless you explicitly accepted the discount for an upgrade so, in what is pretty much a hardware upgrade discount program. Instead of you handing it i
Too little, too late... (Score:5, Insightful)
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I suspect that so long as the same management remains at Sonos, it may always be possible for other customer-antagonistic actions to occur, including another try a bricking old product. Sonos has defined their brand name in my eyes.
What they did was a hardware upgrade program, with discounts. Instead of you going to the store and handing in your old unit (they started selling the units in question 10+ years ago) to get the discount, you could get the lower price only, if you deactivated the old unit and recycled it yourself.
I'm really struggling to see what was so bad here. They didn't brick anything unless you did the equivalent of handing in your old unit for a 30% discount on a new one.
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The 2 Play:5s and a connect I bought directly from SONOS in 2017 are now considered "legacy" - so for me it has not been 10 years and I had no way of knowing at the time that this was going to happen. SONOS also increased their prices this past January, knowing full well they were going to roll out this program. Also with the Connect that model has been retired so I have to buy a more expensive unit - no real savings there either.
I think the public perception has been that SONOS speakers are, well speakers
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The 2 Play:5s and a connect I bought directly from SONOS in 2017 are now considered "legacy" - so for me it has not been 10 years and I had no way of knowing at the time that this was going to happen. SONOS also increased their prices this past January, knowing full well they were going to roll out this program. Also with the Connect that model has been retired so I have to buy a more expensive unit - no real savings there either.
I think the public perception has been that SONOS speakers are, well speakers (maybe speakers 2.0) and that they should last as long as the "dumb" ones do. This may be a little naive of course because technology & security is rapidly changing BUT SONOS could have gone another path - like offering some sort of transition hub device that provides a gateway from legacy to modern or something like that.
Lastly the whole "bricking" thing was a clear reminder of how we don't really own our own devices anymore - at least not the "cloud connected" ones.
Just a series of marketing blunders that really pissed everyone off I think.
That first part sounds strange - the Play 5s I bought in 2015 (Play 5 v2) are still being sold, and absolutely not legacy. The connect also changed during 2015 - so versions produced after some time in that year are also still supported. They sold those until some time last year, so they should be supported until 2024.
Other than that, I think the "bricking" part is just completely overblown - that just happened if you explicitly requested it to get an hardware upgrade discount. Wish others did the same t
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I think if they had just disabled all "smart" features and allowed the speaker to function as a traditional "dumb" (connect it to an external amplifier) speaker, nobody would be complaining. But, perhaps they don't even have the inputs for that type of connection...
Trade-in program (Score:3)
I assume this means you transfer ownership of the device to Sonos in exchange for a discount. The mistake Sonos made was to tell customers to handle disposal on their own (no doubt to save themselves some money not having to handle the e-waste). So the customer looks at the gadget and says, "Gee. I think I can make a couple of bucks selling this on the used market." Or maybe hanging on to it themselves. But now it doesn't work any more. On the other hand, it's not yours anymore. Return it to Sonos or dispose of it per their instructions.
Obligatory bad car analogy: Where would we be if people took their cash for clunkers credit and then decided to drive the beater around for a few more years?
Re: Trade-in program (Score:1)
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It was an obvious pr nightmare indeed.
the problem for sonos is that bricking them and having the customer to take them to best buy or whatever which takes in electronics for recycling is not what the customer thinks about "recycle mode". if you do it like that it's obvious that the device, a perfectly good functional device, is being deactivated just so that nobody can use it anymore.
also did they brick them before the customer received the new device? that would have been a super dumb move too, which I gue
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also did they brick them before the customer received the new device? that would have been a super dumb move too, which I guess they did.
No, if you entered the program you got 3 weeks or so before the device was actually deactivated.
Key Takeaway? (Score:5, Insightful)
Completing the trade-in process required putting your device in "recycle mode," which not only wipes all of the user's personal data but also permanently deactivates the product. Once a Sonos product has been deactivated, the company says, "the product cannot be re-added to any system or used to set up a new Sonos system, even if the product has been reset to its factory settings," and the decision to deactivate it is irreversible.
The key takeaway I got from this is to avoid buying products that require activation (or a subscription service) to use when at all possible.
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It's not activation or subscription. This is even worse because there is no indication that it exists when you buy.
All Sonos devices need to have the same firmware version to work together. If they don't they won't talk to each other. So when you buy a new device, say an additional speaker, if it has newer firmware than all your current devices they must all be upgraded.
Problem is Sonos doesn't offer firmware updates for older devices any more. So either you cling to them and don't buy any new ones, or you
Can we unbrick? (Score:1)
thanks for the info (Score:2)
A short and sweet reply. (Score:2)
No shit!
Anti-Planet (Score:2)
I certainly do not consider myself to be an environmentalist by any stretch. However, I do at least try to think about what I purchase and whether or not that it is something which will last or end up in a land fill within a few years.
What Sonos has done is single-handedly let consumers know that even if they invest their money in an expensive brand's "cloud" based product, they will still need to toss it in the land fill after a few years.
They did this by one, deciding not to update older products and two
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What Sonos has done is single-handedly let consumers know that even if they invest their money in an expensive brand's "cloud" based product, they will still need to toss it in the land fill after a few years.
No, they don't - the older speakers will continue to function, just with a capped feature set. The speakers have worked for ten years, and will continue to function into the foreseeable future.
They did this by one, deciding not to update older products
It's a ten year-old product - does Apple still offer updates for ten year-old Mac Books, iPads, and iPhones? Of course not, but just like the old Sonos speakers, they continue to function with a static feature set into the foreseeable future. Imagine if Apple offered 30% discount on current iPhone 11 when you brick/de
Poor reporting and poor understanding of the issue (Score:2)
Most of the reporting I've seen on this has been inaccurate and most of the commentary has been of the "have cake and eat it" variety. Even the linked article gets it wrong in the first paragraph.
Sonos have never prevented you from giving or selling your old devices - provided you weren't trying to game the trade-in scheme.
The problem ultimately boils down to Sonos trying to run a recycling programme without incurring the costs of a recycling programme. They needed to come up with a way to ensure that peop
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It'll work but it needs to be moved onto a separate network which doesn't interact with the original network. You won't be able to pair or group devices which sit across different networks. The day before this change comes in you'll have whole home audio, the day after you'll have to chose between half-home audio or no longer having software updates for any of your devices*
This is another Sonos story which has been rea
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It'll work but it needs to be moved onto a separate network which doesn't interact with the original network. You won't be able to pair or group devices which sit across different networks. The day before this change comes in you'll have whole home audio, the day after you'll have to chose between half-home audio or no longer having software updates for any of your devices*
Every step of the way you are making choices and are acting like you are a victim of someone else's decision:
If you have a house full of "old" Sonos speakers, and you want to add more speakers, simply buy pre-owned old speakers and go on with your life, no problem. If you want the new features, sell your old speakers privately and buy all new speakers, no problem. If you want to avoid the hassle of selleing the devices privately, Sonos offers a 30% on new speakers based on your bricking the old Sonos speake
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I'm arguing that if Sonos decides to no longer provide software updates (which isn't an unreasonable position) then I would like it if they at least allow the speakers to continue to sit on the same network - even if they only act as a basic wireless speaker.
This capability exists right now today (so it's not asking for much), but they are making it needlessly complex by introducing this incompatible legacy network.
Re: Poor reporting and poor understanding of the i (Score:2)
You're not making sense.
I'm arguing that if Sonos decides to no longer provide software updates (which isn't an unreasonable position) then I would like it if they at least allow the speakers to continue to sit on the same network - even if they only act as a basic wireless speaker.
...on the same network as their new speakers?
The old speakers continue to work as old speakers, they simply can't integrate with new speakers. I believe they can work independently and simultaneously in the same house, but won't inter-operate wit new speakers.
This capability exists right now today (so it's not asking for much), but they are making it needlessly complex by introducing this incompatible legacy network.
They are "introducing" an incompatible "legacy" network? Explain - by definition the legacy network pre-dates the newest/current network offering.
As I understand, and I am not a Sonos owner, the old and new speakers can
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There is currently only one network. All speakers work on that single network. New speakers still work on the same network.
Sort-of. They can still integrate into one seamless system but, in order to do so, the user must accept that they can never ever receive software updates for all of their other speakers ever again.
If the user wants to
Most likely No Change, just optics (Score:2)
Instead of bringing in old products and refurbishing or reselling them, Sonos tells users to bring them to an e-waste center or send it back to Sonos for component recycling. In recent days, however, Sonos quietly removed the recycle mode option from its app, replacing it with a prompt to call customer service. Additionally, the company now says it's working on posting a new trade-in flow to its website, which will remove recycle mode from the process.
The new plan will involve the illusion of recycling at the device level, and will instead turn into "ship unit back to Sonos for discount/credit," and SONOS will component-level recycle it, same as before - the only difference is that someone will have to pay to ship that future e-waste back to Sonos.
Saying F*ck Off to customers (Score:2)
Who think this was a great idea in the first place? Probably need to lay off the entire "MBAs department".