Tesla Produces Its One Millionth Car (theverge.com) 98
Elon Musk announced on Twitter that Tesla has produced one million electric cars. The Verge reports: Musk made the announcement by sharing a picture of the car, a red Model Y, and congratulated the Tesla team on hitting the milestone. It's a significant moment for an automaker that was only founded in 2003. Tesla released its first consumer car, the Roadster, back in 2008, meaning it's taken a little over twelve years to hit this million-car milestone. However, it could end up hitting the two million mark a lot sooner based on current targets.
In its January earnings report, the company said it hopes to ship over 500,000 cars worldwide in 2020. Established automakers like Toyota or the Volkswagen Group each produce over ten million vehicles a year. Nevertheless, Tesla's milestone is a tremendous accomplishment for an automotive startup that only produces electric vehicles.
In its January earnings report, the company said it hopes to ship over 500,000 cars worldwide in 2020. Established automakers like Toyota or the Volkswagen Group each produce over ten million vehicles a year. Nevertheless, Tesla's milestone is a tremendous accomplishment for an automotive startup that only produces electric vehicles.
Ford did it quicker. (Score:5, Interesting)
Ford was founded in 1903 and built its millionth car in 1915.
Tesla was founded in 2003 and built its million car in 2020.
Definitely not an apples to apples comparison, but I was just curious.
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Ford made his first car to be affordable. At the time, most people did not have a car.
Tesla made their first electric cars to be speed and performance monsters, to show people that electric cars don't have to be wimpy, slow and toy-like. Most people who wanted a Tesla already owned a car, so even if they wanted a Tesla they were going to wait until they had to change theirs, if they could afford it.
Different goals, different times.
What I'd like to see is a Tesla without all the damn computers, self-driving,
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It would probably be more expensive than a low-end Tesla.
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*The average selling price of a new car in 2019 was almost $37k. A Tesla Model 3 costs pretty much that same price, but with the 'fuel' costing 60% less, and minimal maintenance, it's actually cheaper.
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Just how much did you lose by shorting Tesla?
You must be hurting. I pity you.
Re:Ford did it quicker. (Score:4, Informative)
Dear felon_musk2,
I've owned a Tesla Model 3 for just over two years now. No troubles. I've put just over 10k miles per year on this car. My next car will be a Tesla, unless something significantly better comes along. An all electric MD-500 helicopter with at least a 45 minute flight time would do the trick.
As an engineer and and engine-swapping amateur mechanic, I'm not seeing anything substandard or poor quality about this car. It's just a car... that doesn't burn gas, or need an oil change, or a timing belt, water pump, thermostat.... My only gripe is that the windshield washer fluid doesn't coat the windshield as evenly or thoroughly as other cars. I've had to refill the windshield washer fluid bottle twice, in two years, so it's a very minor nit.
Maybe someday this Tesla will become exorbitantly expensive to keep on the road, thus fulfilling your claim. By then I'll have saved enough money by avoiding gas and internal combustion related car repairs that I'll trade it in on another electric car.
I like to take co-workers out to lunch. I let them drive. It's just a car, and I have good insurance, and I trust my friends not to kill me or themselves. As a result, some of my friends have now purchased their own Teslas. I like being nice to most people and having most people as friends. I hope someday you have a friend that will buy you lunch and let you drive their car. Until then, please work on your happy thoughts!
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I drive a EV, not Tesla, and I KNOW I haven't paid >$1K to "fuel" my car in the past year. I live in a mid-Atlantic state, and electricity for me is @$0.17KWh (off-peak can go as low as $0.12), not $0.30 kWh like in the reply you cited. Charging stations routinely charge that amount, but I rarely pay that, as free charging stations are around once you know to look for them, apps and such. Maybe the poster you cited, because you know, they are experts on such ma
Except the fuel does not cost less (Score:1)
If you look at the cost of replacing the fuel in one car and NOT include the cost of replacing it in the other, and you ignore the inefficiencies (energy losses) in the one you want to win, then you can try to make the Tesla look significantly cheaper.
Once you factor in the 80% charge measured charge efficiency and then *$18,000* to replace the battery - well that's certainly not cheap.
A Honda will burn about $900 / year in gas, or $9K in ten years.
A Tesla will burn $6K in electricity and $18K in battery pa
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The battery pack lasts something around 400,000 miles, that is most likely more than 10 years ... and the over all efficiency is not 80% but close to 99%.
Not measured at the wall, where you buy it (Score:2)
A Honda Accord gets 38/30. 12,000 miles/year is around 353 gallons. You could double the mileage driven and it still doesn't change - the Tesla is still the more expensive car. Gasbuddy shows my local station at $1.82, the national overview shows the most expensive town at $2.37 (though one could find a station that charges more - but that would be silly).
For easy math let's call it $2 is $706.
In the expensive city 353 gallons at $2.37 is $837.
As for charging efficiency, wall to motor measurements by thi
Oops, I replied to the wrong post (Score:2)
I meant to reply to the AC.
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As for charging efficiency, wall to motor measurements by third parties are all low 80s.
By wireless charging perhaps. Definitely not by cable.
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Go look up some third-party measurements, wall to motor.
I think Tesla claims "up to 88%" or similar, so that gives you a max number under ideal conditions.
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So you're running these numbers after the oil market literally just crashed. Not really a fair comparison. And unless you're comparing apples to oranges, you're somehow claiming a cost of $6K per year on electricity to drive only 12,000 miles. I'm pretty sure that electric costs less than $0.50/mile (~ $15/gallon gas equivalent).
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I said $600, not $6,000.
75 kwh is 250 miles.
At 80% charging efficiency, that's 94 kwh from the wall for 250 miles.
Times 48 to go 12,000 miles is 4,500 kwh.
Times national average electric rate is 0.133 = $600.07
THAT part is $106 less than the Honda.
Then after a few years you have the $18,000 to replace the battery pack.
Over 10 years, the gas costs $1,000 more than the charging, so after the $18,000 battery the Tesla is $17,000 more expensive.
That ignores the fact it's also a lot more expensive to dri
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Residential rates for electricity is @$0.19/kWh. http://www.peco.com/ [peco.com]
Tesla battery pack 100 kWh http://www.tesla.com/ [tesla.com]
Hours to full for Tesla model S on home charger 15hrs https://pod-point.com/guides/v... [pod-point.com]
Cost = $2.85 X 7days X 52 weeks = $1085.00 per year
That is an EXTREME example,, assuming you drive approx. $73,000 MILES per year. Because that what it would take to have to charge like what I just did the math for to get
There is a difference between an hour and a kilowa (Score:2)
You seem to be equating an hour on the charger to a kilowatt hour. The home charger isn't 1kW. It's 11.5kW:
https://www.tesla.com/support/... [tesla.com]
So multiply that cost by 11.5.
Compared to a Honda Accord at 30-38 mpg, which is $4,100 to go 73,000 miles. Figuring it the way you want to figure it (but using the correct charger output), the Tesla costs almost three times as much to charge than the Tesla costs to fuel.
Fortunately for Telsa owners, it not actually that bad. Because how long you spend charging has
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
https://cleantechnica.com/2019... [cleantechnica.com]
https://www.entrepreneur.com/a... [entrepreneur.com]
At this point it is even generally accepted that the 1st and 2nd gen hybrids have sturdy battery packs that will outlast the cars they are
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Computers aren't expensive.
Yes they are, hint: software. Another hint: approval by authorities.
Not even the more or less commodity hardware is really cheap.
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Might shock you, but the amount of software actually approved by authorities is minute. Practically none, to be honest.
This is not flight software where failure of the software cannot be dealt with by pulling over to the side. Might not be convenient, but is generally safe for all concerned.
In fact, you might be surprised to learn that your car's software might be reflashed every time you took it in for the oil change. It seems something or
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$18k for a 50kWh battery? Seems very expensive. $360/kWh.
Kia and Hyundai will sell you battery upgrades at about $130/kWh at the moment, and that's retail.
Fortunately I don't think Tesla are that far off the pace, they are actually down around $150-170/kWh. Not as cheap as pouch cells but they need more expensive packs to meet their performance levels.
A lot of the cost of the Model 3 is the electronics. The cameras are not cheap ones, they are special types designed for automotive use (vibration, dust and t
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See, the in-car technology is what compels me to want a Tesla. Like the other posts in this thread, you can get a much less expensive car and spend about the same amount on "fuel" in a year.
If your goal is to save the planet, I'd bet the ecological damage of a Telsa vs. a small car with great gas millage would end up being similar.
Re:Ford did it quicker. (Score:5, Interesting)
All the electronics it has thrown in is cheap. Electronics is cheap. 8 cameras and the computer is cheap compared to the IC engines and mechanical stuff. The marginal cost of all that electronics is not very small compared to the cost of batteries. You can remove all the electronics and still the price would not drop by much. Competitors taking that route will realize it
It is more expensive to use a switched reluctance permanent magnet motor compared to cheap off the shelf readily available motor. But the higher efficiency allows you to use a smaller battery. Cost reduction in battery size requirement pays off big. This sizing and cost trade off Tesla did back in 2012. It takes one round of actual design build test to realize that.
In a gas car playbook if you want efficiency you reduce the weight of the car. BMW went that route with i3 making a 2000 lib car with carbon fiber panels at great expense. But 4000 lib Model 3 is more efficient, uses less energy per mile. What gives? With regenerative braking weight reduction is 30 times less effective in improving efficiency!
In a gas car playbook you trade away performance for efficiency. In an electric car 300 HP rated motor and 100 HP rated motor are equally efficient at cruise. Tesla knew that. Other car makers are still using gas car playbook and were sizing the car for 100 to 150 hp motors.
Looks like Model 3 is the low priced econobox of electric world. As the battery prices fall, its price also will fall.
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The kWhr costs it uses would only work if the driver was Supercharging for every charge. Who does that? Even worse, the cost to Supercharge is not even $0.30/kWh, its $0.28/kWh. Less in many places.
What gives? Why so....persistent?
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The cameras and computer system are not that cheap and likely one of the main reasons that they failed to properly launch the $35k model they promised.
The biggest issue for Tesla though is that they over-sold it. Anyone who bought "full self driving" is in line for an expensive upgrade of the hardware if/when they eventually get it work. Alternatively they might have to refund everyone, or be forced to by lawsuit since it's already been 4 years since they started selling it.
The reason that the Model 3 is so
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The reason that the Model 3 is so efficient is because it's very low. It's 140mm lower than the BMW i3 and a saloon shape instead of hatch back. They compromised on the shape and comfort (compare getting in and out of a Model 3 with an i3, you have to swing down and slide in rather than basically step in to the taller car) and ended up with a recumbent driving position, all to increase the efficiency.
The Hyundai Ioniq, the most efficient EV on the market, is the same. Low and flat.
How do these discussions on /. end up devolving into cheapness? It's like the metric no one except people opposed to electric vehicles use. I tend to spend in Tesla price range for my vehicles. And like most people who buy in that price range - I but what I want, not do an indepth analysis of efficiency, or piaster per furlong cost.
I had the same reaction to superinsulating my house, and buying the most efficient natgas furnace I could - one so efficient that the Chimney is made of 1 inch PVC pipe - vir
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If we want everyone to drive an EV as soon as possible they need to be affordable for most people.
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That's exactly why we have the Model Y now!
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I was going to mention the Y. Will be interesting to see how efficient it is, but looking at it they had lowered the roof at the back so it's going to be cramped back there.
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It's looking promising. Range on the Model 3 Long Range AWD is 322 miles. Range on the same Model Y is 315. Not bad at all.
It sits higher and has much more cargo space.
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Yeah but the LR isn't affordable. How is the base model and how much will it cost?
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Even worse, they are building cars that just suck. Anyone who has done enough research to consider an EV knows they don't need 300mi+. But they also don't want an EV version of a Citation either. Kia and Hyundai are making good EVs. Hopefully the Europeans and Japanese will join in too.
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It's funny that people thought EVs were slow and wimpy really. I had an original Nissan Leaf, the 107HP version. On paper I suppose it does look quite weak, but in practice I had great fun embarrassing BMW and Audi drivers who thought they could overtake the little eco-mobile at the lights.
Anyway, Tesla have failed to reach their original goal of producing an affordable EV, but it doesn't matter because (in some small part thanks to them) other manufacturers have addressed that segment of the market. Nissan
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It's funny that people thought EVs were slow and wimpy really.
That reminds me of the EV's at the drag strips. People were taking regular cars, stripping the engines out, and replacing them and most of the drivetrain with motors and batteries.
And sweet Jeebuz on a pogo stick, they were fast. A lot of the traditional guys were pissed that here were little cars that might have been rescued from a junkyard that could beat their expensive petrofueld ones.
I had an original Nissan Leaf, the 107HP version. On paper I suppose it does look quite weak, but in practice I had gr
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Ford basically began the market and produced an incredibly simple product compared to Tesla during an era where there was little serious competition. Fords could be and were repaired anywhere. Their engineering is impressive, especially the pedal actuated transmission, but it's not complex for its time and that was the point. OTOH Tesla competes in a highly refined and saturated market.
Automobile history is much more than mere numbers.
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There are about 5 times more people today, and there is a full infrastructure to support vehicles (not just paved roads, but repair shops, traffic lights, refueling stations, laws and insurance, etc). None of that existed at the time of Ford. It's is infinitely easier today to convince the typical person of the value of a car, as compared to the days of Ford.
More people, more infrastructure, complete market awareness of benefits - those are massive advantages for Tesla today, as compared to Ford of 1903
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Ford did not begin the market. Others were selling cars when Ford was founded. He expanded the market downward into lower income brackets. That's not nothing, but it's not what you said.
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Ford was founded in 1903 and built its millionth car in 1915.
Tesla was founded in 2003 and built its million car in 2020.
Definitely not an apples to apples comparison, but I was just curious.
Ford sells a close to a million F150 pickups alone every single year. Gonna take a while to catch up to that.
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They also have a 100 year head start....
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I'm on my 3rd BMW 3 series, a 335i which I will be replacing soon. I've driven an i3, and it is not my thing. I would not mind an i8, but it's out of my price range, as well as being a hybrid. The hybrid 3 series from a few years back was a rather pointless exercise. I'll check out the all electric 3 when it comes out, but I'm not waiting in anticipation.
I am a geek, but my next car is almost certain to be an ICE. My practical side says M240i. My impractical side really, really likes the new mid-engin
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And total of perhaps 10,000 of those are to people who actually have a need for a pickup. An F-150 today is mostly a fashion statement.
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Reminder: Tesla only car with biodefense (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyone still betting against Tesla, remember that in these viral-aware times, Tesla is the only car with a biohazard quality air filter in the car for passengers.
The infected can sneeze all over the outside with no worry, simply proceed to a car wash.
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not the model 3.
ob disc: model 3 owner, here.
I think you can buy better hepa filters but there's no neg (or pos? which is it?) pressure in the 3. X and S have that but they are $100k class cars (absurd prices; I didn't even consider such things).
the model 3 can outrun the virus, though. its really quick.
(sarcasm-like typing detected)
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Negative pressure keeps the virus in. Positive pressure keeps the virus out. Cars are all positive pressure, kinda. There is a flap in a vent in the trunk that closes if the wind blows in just the right way to blow air into the vehicle through the out hole. The blower motor and fan blow air into the vehicle.
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Re-circulation mode doesn't seal out the outside world. If it did you would die as the oxygen in the car runs out due to your breathing.
It's only designed to reduce the load on the heating system by using a proportion of already heated air from the cabin instead of all fresh air from outside.
The "biohazard" mode just turns the fans on to max and relies on positive pressure. The filters are not anything special, even cheap cars have them. The first filter is needed to keep large crap from clogging the other
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Recirculation mode does draw air from inside. On some vehicles this goes up to 100%. On others it's 20% outside air. On vehicles which do 100% recirc there is a timer to shut it off so you get outside air again.
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Yes, draw air from the inside, but the car itself is not airtight, far from it.
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Sure. No car really is. But some are sufficiently airtight that if you leave one on 100% recirc too long, you'll still deplete the air inside of sufficient oxygen to cause problems.
Some cars are sealed pretty well. Most aren't. But the average sealing quality has gone up over the years as automakers have competed more on wind noise.
The best way to keep stuff out is with good filters and positive pressure, and you get the most positive pressure with high fan speeds. That pushes air out of the seals. Designin
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Actually that is just bollocks. It's just a standard HEPA filter, nothing special. About as effective against viruses as a facemask.
They called it "biohazard" mode to make people think it was really cool, but it's just a button that turns on the fans on max and a normal cabin air filter. You can produce the same effect in any car with a HEPA filter by just turning the fans to max, and people who don't want to pay Tesla for the upgrade have just fitted their own filters and manually turned up the fans.
Tesla's secret master plan for world domination (Score:3)
So, in short, the master plan is:
Build sports car
Use that money to build an affordable car
Use that money to build an even more affordable car
While doing above, also provide zero emission electric power generation options
Don't tell anyone.
He said it was between me and Elon and asked me not to tell anyone. So I won't tell anyone.
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So evaluating Musk against his own plan he has maybe produced a semi-affordable car. The Model 3 is still far more expensive than fossil cars, about twice the price of actually affordable EVs.
And the zero emission power generation options... Well they seem to be going fairly slowly on the solar side, to the point where you wonder why they really bother. Lots of other companies offer solar roof tile systems or panels.
So what (Score:1)
The Freemont factory produced 357,809 cars and trucks in 1997 when it was operated by GM & Toyota, an average of 6881 per calendar week. How long did it take Tesla to come close to that?
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That's "Fremont", not "Freemont". It's named after John C. Frémont [wikipedia.org] /. ate the unicode characters.
Re:So what (Score:4, Insightful)
But, it seems to have learned the lessons well. It was able to replicate the Model 3 line in China getting to work in less than one year. Now Germans are under pressure to show they can do it too. So over all, I would give D for Fremont factory ramp up and resounding A+ for learning from mistakes and being willing to change when confronted with facts.
Electric car facts have been staring at the face of GM and Toyota since 2013. Still they refuse to wake up and smell the coffee.
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Don't forget that they are also about 9 months ahead on Model Y - the entire world expected 2021 deliveries, and people are going to start getting them next week.
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[Tesla] was able to replicate the Model 3 line in China getting to work in less than one year. Now Germans are under pressure to show they can do it too.
Volkswagen's Shanghai plant [wikipedia.org] builds nearly 2 million cars a year. Germans not only showed it could be done, they've trained the Chinese how to do it. I have gone into countless factories in China that were set up by Germans, and then it's proudly proclaimed that the line was replicated over and over to increase output linearly with expansion.
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Actually electric car facts have been staring at the face of GM since 1996 [wikipedia.org]. They could have dominated the market, instead they decided to literally crush the whole project.
Performance vs Efficiency Gas vs Electrons (Score:2)
Re: Performance vs Efficiency Gas vs Electrons (Score:2)
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https://www.autoblog.com/2020/... [autoblog.com]
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I would have expected more.
They'll need a few good years to hit net profitable, and need to do it before people stop buying what they have, but it seems very credible.
Allegedly they're marginally profitable on sales,
They're making 400,000 cars/year now (4x Q4), assuming they can get battery prices down a touch (allegedly happening last year and this) and the model Y is a success that rolls out relatively smooth, I would think they'll be there in 2 years.
$5,700 lost per car isn't s
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You must have really taken a bath shorting Tesla if all you can do now is sit in the library posting nonsense to stay out of the cold.
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The most dire prediction I've seen is that they're expected to be flat this year.
Keep in mind that they are finally releasing the most popular style of car in the US.
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Damn, I forgot that you shouldn't even bother unless you go from zero cars to millions sold on day one.
Everything has to start somewhere, and you're an idiot.
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“Damn, I forgot that you shouldn't even bother unless you go from zero cars to millions sold on day one.”
I know that was written sarcastically, but it’s actually spot on. When it comes to starting a new car company in today’s world, and going up against established, large auto makers Then yes, it’s a completely, mind-bogglingly stupid thing to do—as Elon Musk has admitted on multiple occasions. They’ve had very slim prospect of success and a number of near-death
Next 1 million in 1-2 years ? (Score:2)
If their current momentum holds (and it looks that way), the next million will be less than 2 years away.
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I can see them building 1M+ cars per year pretty soon. And keep in mind, a lot of these are relatively expensive, hurting the traditional brands more because the profit margin is bigger on expensive cars
Anyway most of all I am happy that their success pushed the rest of the industry forward.
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car accessories (Score:1)